Aaron Ramsdale - Official: Loaned to Newcastle

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

Transfermarkt has us bringing in £32m so far, not including Ramsdale. Mind you it has us spending just £10m on Downs and Quarshie, so maybe it undercooks the fees a fraction?

According to the BBC reporting at the time, Quarshie cost £3.5m and Downs £7m, so they're about right...

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Has there ever been a window where we brought a load of money in and then didn't spend a reasonable percentage of it on replacements? No one seriously thinks if Fernandes goes we won't spend decent money on a replacement do they? We spent last time in the championship and we were in a more unhealthy state financially. Why would we not? 

You’re really not seeing the big picture here are you? Money spent previously was largely wasted on low quality players that are still with us and so far, looks like they’re here to stay. The successes are leaving despite long contracts.  Yes we might have some money to throw at new transfers, but some of the deadwood will have to go first - when will that happen as we’re only seeing decent players leave. And if and when the deadwood goes, what’s to say the better quality we’ve sold will be replaced or indeed improved on? The last 4-5 seasons transfers suggest the club tend to panic towards the end of the summer window and bring in low quality.

Yes, we have Spors now and yes, Downs and Quarshie look like decent acquisitions, however the extensive and positive squad transformation some of us were hoping for looks a long way off right now.

[S-Clarke]

29 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

You’re really not seeing the big picture here are you? Money spent previously was largely wasted on low quality players that are still with us and so far, looks like they’re here to stay. The successes are leaving despite long contracts.  Yes we might have some money to throw at new transfers, but some of the deadwood will have to go first - when will that happen as we’re only seeing decent players leave. And if and when the deadwood goes, what’s to say the better quality we’ve sold will be replaced or indeed improved on? The last 4-5 seasons transfers suggest the club tend to panic towards the end of the summer window and bring in low quality.

Yes, we have Spors now and yes, Downs and Quarshie look like decent acquisitions, however the extensive and positive squad transformation some of us were hoping for looks a long way off right now.

That's just how football works though, isn't it? Scout good players (few and far between with us tbf), and they're in demand and despite long contracts they will still generate bids that probably hit our valuation.

The poorly scouting players, like BBD, Fraser, Taylor, Aribo, ABK etc are a different kettle of fish entirely. You're not going to get clubs from far and wide having much interest in them, and then when we put unrealistic valuations on them (as we do with ABK) then it becomes a game of 'wait until the contract expires". So those poor transfer decisions don't just harm us in the immediate season, they handcuff us for future seasons too due to squad places and wages being eaten up - and lost revenue, as we'll never make our money back.

We've had way too much of that for years, before Sports Republic too. Vestergaard, Carillo, Hoedt, Boufal and the list goes on - signed for big bucks, big wages, massive fails, unable to shift = squad plateau. 

The move around of our 'dross' will take numerous windows, they won't be able to do it all in one. In some cases we will just have to wait for players to leave at the end of their contracts as interest is scarce. 

If we end up with more Fernandes, Ramsdale and THB types then it suggests the scouting is getting better - but we are still beholding to the mistakes of the past, which won't be fixed over night or in one window. I don't think we can judge Spors on one window alone, he needs a few to cycle through the mistakes of the past (that's if we keep him, given our record of retaining DoF types)

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

That's just how football works though, isn't it? Scout good players (few and far between with us tbf), and they're in demand and despite long contracts they will still generate bids that probably hit our valuation.

The poorly scouting players, like BBD, Fraser, Taylor, Aribo, ABK etc are a different kettle of fish entirely. You're not going to get clubs from far and wide having much interest in them, and then when we put unrealistic valuations on them (as we do with ABK) then it becomes a game of 'wait until the contract expires". So those poor transfer decisions don't just harm us in the immediate season, they handcuff us for future seasons too due to squad places and wages being eaten up - and lost revenue, as we'll never make our money back.

We've had way too much of that for years, before Sports Republic too. Vestergaard, Carillo, Hoedt, Boufal and the list goes on - signed for big bucks, big wages, massive fails, unable to shift = squad plateau. 

The move around of our 'dross' will take numerous windows, they won't be able to do it all in one. In some cases we will just have to wait for players to leave at the end of their contracts as interest is scarce. 

If we end up with more Fernandes, Ramsdale and THB types then it suggests the scouting is getting better - but we are still beholding to the mistakes of the past, which won't be fixed over night or in one window. I don't think we can judge Spors on one window alone, he needs a few to cycle through the mistakes of the past (that's if we keep him, given our record of retaining DoF types)

Looks like we’re pretty much on the same page - past mistakes not corrected…bloated squad of dross…insufficient signings of quality that don’t remain at the club long enough to really make a difference to the status quo. We’ve not seen decent recruitment since the days of Mané, Pelle, Tadic and Van Dyke. So far what has changed? Not a lot and on we go.

[Farmer Saint]

28 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Looks like we’re pretty much on the same page - past mistakes not corrected…bloated squad of dross…insufficient signings of quality that don’t remain at the club long enough to really make a difference to the status quo. We’ve not seen decent recruitment since the days of Mané, Pelle, Tadic and Van Dyke. So far what has changed? Not a lot and on we go.

We bought a lot of shit then as well. Do Ramsdale, Fernandes, Lavia, Livramento, THB, KWP not count as good purchases? 

[Saint Fan CaM]

5 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We bought a lot of shit then as well. Do Ramsdale, Fernandes, Lavia, Livramento, THB, KWP not count as good purchases? 

Of course they do, but they were not all here at the same time and how many are likely to be here now? My contention is that recruitment is not just about bringing in new bodies - it’s about how the squad progressively develops and improves rather than stands still or worse still degrades over time. Perhaps it’s true - we are destined to be, at best, just another sad yo-yo club under SR’s leadership which isn’t the battling Saints FC many of us worshipped decades ago when we first started supporting our home team.

[Farmer Saint]

18 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Of course they do, but they were not all here at the same time and how many are likely to be here now? My contention is that recruitment is not just about bringing in new bodies - it’s about how the squad progressively develops and improves rather than stands still or worse still degrades over time. Perhaps it’s true - we are destined to be, at best, just another sad yo-yo club under SR’s leadership which isn’t the battling Saints FC many of us worshipped decades ago when we first started supporting our home team.

4 of the 6 were here last year and it made no difference.

I don't think the yo-yo thing is all SRs fault in all honesty, it's football if you are not a big boy. All it takes is a few of bad transfer windows and you're fucked, and that can happen to anyone. Ask 2015 PL winners Leicester. Brighton could easily fuck up one of these days with a few dodgy high value signings (which may be this year tbh).

Every club is a couple of years of bad transfers away from being the newest yo-yo club, the difference is we are trying to embrace it and hope one of these years we get lucky.

Edited Thursday at 15:23 by Farmer Saint

[beatlesaint]

16 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

4 of the 6 were here last year and it made no difference.

I don't think the yo-yo thing is all SRs fault in all honesty, it's football if you are not a big boy. All it takes is a few of bad transfer windows and you're fucked, and that can happen to anyone. Ask 2015 PL winners Leicester. Brighton could easily fuck up one of these days with a few dodgy high value signings (which may be this year tbh).

Every club is a couple of years of bad transfers away from being the newest yo-yo club, the difference is we are trying to embrace it and hope one of these years we get lucky.

Brentford will be the latest fall guys this season unfortunately but with one bad transfer window.

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

You’re really not seeing the big picture here are you? Money spent previously was largely wasted on low quality players that are still with us and so far, looks like they’re here to stay. The successes are leaving despite long contracts.  Yes we might have some money to throw at new transfers, but some of the deadwood will have to go first - when will that happen as we’re only seeing decent players leave. And if and when the deadwood goes, what’s to say the better quality we’ve sold will be replaced or indeed improved on? The last 4-5 seasons transfers suggest the club tend to panic towards the end of the summer window and bring in low quality.

Yes, we have Spors now and yes, Downs and Quarshie look like decent acquisitions, however the extensive and positive squad transformation some of us were hoping for looks a long way off right now.

I'll let you into a secret-we aren't replacing Fernandes, Dibling or Ramsdale with better players. We are a top championship team with a place in the hierarchy. What we should do and what we almost certainly will do is replace those players who leave with the best replacements we can get who should be top level championship players with a chance to do a job in the prem. That's exactly what we did the last time we got relegated. Don't you remember? 

[Badger]

55 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

We bought a lot of shit then as well. Do Ramsdale, Fernandes, Lavia, Livramento, THB, KWP not count as good purchases? 

Seeing those nmaes listed out, you have to wonder why we're where we are. Perhaps they just weighed down by the other shit.

[hypochondriac]

41 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Of course they do, but they were not all here at the same time and how many are likely to be here now? My contention is that recruitment is not just about bringing in new bodies - it’s about how the squad progressively develops and improves rather than stands still or worse still degrades over time. Perhaps it’s true - we are destined to be, at best, just another sad yo-yo club under SR’s leadership which isn’t the battling Saints FC many of us worshipped decades ago when we first started supporting our home team.

Almost none because we are a championship team. Did you expect us to get relegated and keep hold of Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, kwp etc? I fear you may be disappointed. The last time we went down did you expect us to keep jwp, Tino, Lavia, Tella? We will have to start another rebuild if and when we win promotion again next year. That's just how it works. That's football. 

[Farmer Saint]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'll let you into a secret-we aren't replacing Fernandes, Dibling or Ramsdale with better players. We are a top championship team with a place in the hierarchy. What we should do and what we almost certainly will do is replace those players who leave with the best replacements we can get who should be top level championship players with a chance to do a job in the prem. That's exactly what we did the last time we got relegated. Don't you remember? 

Christ I'm spending a lot of time agreeing with Hypo at the moment.

[Farmer Saint]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Seeing those nmaes listed out, you have to wonder why we're where we are. Perhaps they just weighed down by the other shit.

I would say management issues as well - but having Bednarek and Stephens anywhere near a PL lineup doesn't help, as does having no decent strikers or creativity for the last 5 years or so.

Edited Thursday at 15:53 by Farmer Saint

[Farmer Saint]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Almost none because we are a championship team. Did you expect us to get relegated and keep hold of Ramsdale, Fernandes, Dibling, kwp etc? I fear you may be disappointed. The last time we went down did you expect us to keep jwp, Tino, Lavia, Tella? We will have to start another rebuild if and when we win promotion again next year. That's just how it works. That's football. 

(Dibling will most likely stay)

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

(Dibling will most likely stay)

Good! 

Hopefully we get a great Fernandes replacement and then build the team around them and Dibling. 

New gk 

Bree Quarshie Stephens/another cb wellington 

Downes Charles 

Dibling new am Robinson 

Downs/Archer 

Should have a good shot at promotion. 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Christ I'm spending a lot of time agreeing with Hypo at the moment.

Does rather suggest that the idea that we were buying a load of players last year for the following season in the Championship was a load of bollocks though... 

[Farmer Saint]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Does rather suggest that the idea that we were buying a load of players last year for the following season in the Championship was a load of bollocks though... 

Well, which of those players are leaving?

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Well, which of those players are leaving?

Ramsdale and Fernandes. Potentially BBD, taylor and Sugawara. None of those three look like they will be key players at the moment at any rate. 

[Farmer Saint]

17 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ramsdale and Fernandes. Potentially BBD, taylor and Sugawara. None of those three look like they will be key players at the moment at any rate. 

But they weren't part of it (well BBD & Suga were - Suga is likely to be staying and I don't think anyone thought BBDs attitude would be so shit).

I think you're getting sucked into what some other posters have been gaslighting people with, because that wasn't what I said.

I said that due to PSR (hence all the piss takes about me mentioning PSR) and the fact that we had to spend £40m of our transfer budget to go backwards after losing Adams and Armstrong (which was confirmed by Solak earlier this Summer), we decided to spread our bets.

- Established prem players on loans or frees (including the fact we thought we'd get our money back on Ramsdale easily - so a glorified loan - unfortunately Ramsdale was not as good as we thought he'd be and so moved down PL teams lists).

- Young upside players with likely future profits.

- Established and high end Championship players for the likely scenario that we get relegated, but with potential that they may develop into something better.

The fact that Kraft etc did such a piss poor job and we flamed out so badly, meant that we ripped up the current scouting and purchasing strategy and replaced the whole lot, hence Sports coming in.

Edited Thursday at 17:04 by Farmer Saint

[pimpin4rizeal]

Annoying thing is we get him out on loan to save his wages apparently . Yet are happy to give wankers like stephens probably close to half of that .. just think ramsdale wages is probably no more then the likes of stephens bazunu and smallbone combined 

[Lighthouse]

10 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Annoying thing is we get him out on loan to save his wages apparently . Yet are happy to give wankers like stephens probably close to half of that .. just think ramsdale wages is probably no more then the likes of stephens bazunu and smallbone combined 

You say that like it’s an argument in favour of keeping Ramsdale. The fact that we could have three Championship players for his wages is literally the reason we’re loaning him out.

[Gloucester Saint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

You say that like it’s an argument in favour of keeping Ramsdale. The fact that we could have three very good Championship players for his wages is literally the reason we’re loaning him out.

Changed it for you. I’ll admit Smallbone can be only if he’s part of a central three and Charles/Downes do his tracking back and physical work. Unfortunately the Stephens extension doesn’t offer any confidence that the club knows what a very good Championship player with a higher ceiling looks like. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

6 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

You say that like it’s an argument in favour of keeping Ramsdale. The fact that we could have three Championship players for his wages is literally the reason we’re loaning him out.

So it’s better to have three crap players then one great one ? This is exactly why we got relegated quantity over quality 

we could easily do without stephens bazunu and smallbone and would probably be better off them not playing 

Edited Friday at 15:57 by pimpin4rizeal

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

So it’s better to have three crap players then one great one ? This is exactly why we got relegated quantity over quality 

we could easily do without stephens bazunu and smallbone and would probably be better off them not playing 

Stephens, Bazunu and Smallbone are not ‘crap’ Championship players and will play a significant part in this season, as they did two years ago when we were successfully promoted. Ramsdale would take up a disproportionate amount of our wage bill.

[tdmickey3]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Stephens, Bazunu and Smallbone are not ‘crap’ Championship players and will play a significant part in this season, as they did two years ago when we were successfully promoted. Ramsdale would take up a disproportionate amount of our wage bill.

Stephens and Smallbone are average but Bazunu is crap at his best

[Chez]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Ramsdale would take up a disproportionate amount of our wage bill.

Would it not be the same proportion as last season?

[Matthew Le God]

5 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Ramsdale would take up a disproportionate amount of our wage bill.

 

18 minutes ago, Chez said:

Would it not be the same proportion as last season?

Not if the squad is smaller.

[BarberSaint]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Not if the squad is smaller.

Well that's not actually the argument you think it is, but ho hum.

[CSA96]

 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

I won't believe it until sadoldgit breaks the news in a couple of years time.

[Colinjb]

5 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

Well, it's saving us a bit (lot) of cash and bringing in a few more mill.

God we better be investing that in another keeper.

[tdmickey3]

30 minutes ago, Colinjb said:

Well, it's saving us a bit (lot) of cash and bringing in a few more mill.

God we better be investing that in another keeper.

Don’t let your hopes get to high mate

[Saint Scott]

1 hour ago, CSA96 said:

 

Adam Blackmore tweeting that if we gain promotion this year, the buy option for Newcastle is void

[East Kent Saint]

BBC say Newcastle have bought England keeper Ramsdale ! Once again Saints written out of a players history , a bit like Mane interview where Saints not mentioned . 

[Gloucester Saint]

3 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Adam Blackmore tweeting that if we gain promotion this year, the buy option for Newcastle is void

Unless there is a lot of incoming quality signings, that won’t be a problem.

[Willo of Whiteley]

Obviously won’t happen, but….

[Farmer Saint]

All makes sense to me, and backs up what I was told about PL teams being unsure of Aaron.

Sensible all round.

[CB Fry]

5 hours ago, Saint Scott said:

Adam Blackmore tweeting that if we gain promotion this year, the buy option for Newcastle is void

That is utterly meaningless if he wants to stay there and Newcastle want him to stay there.

[Saint Scott]

19 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

That is utterly meaningless if he wants to stay there and Newcastle want him to stay there.

Not entirely.

If we go up, Ramsdale nails down the starting spot and has a good season, it gives us leverage to get a bigger fee in that case

[CB Fry]

43 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Not entirely.

If we go up, Ramsdale nails down the starting spot and has a good season, it gives us leverage to get a bigger fee in that case

Meh. Feels marginal. If we'd sold him this week we should have got our money back. One year on and one year less on the contract, probably not much more in it, especially as NUFC would have already given us £4m or something.

 

[Badger]

56 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Not entirely.

If we go up, Ramsdale nails down the starting spot and has a good season, it gives us leverage to get a bigger fee in that case

Won’t he still have a release clause ?

Of course we don’t know the specifics of it if he does. May only operate if we’re relegated. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, Badger said:

Won’t he still have a release clause ?

Of course we don’t know the specifics of it if he does. May only operate if we’re relegated. 

Again?!

Oh, I see... 🙂

[Badger]

1 minute ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Again?!

Oh, I see... 🙂

Sorry, misunderstood your post. Thought you meant if he had a good season for Newcastle. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Just now, Badger said:

Sorry, misunderstood your post. Thought you meant if he had a good season for Newcastle. 

I'm not over the shock of reading yours and thinking we were going down to L1. 🙂

[Chez]

10 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Meh. Feels marginal. If we'd sold him this week we should have got our money back. One year on and one year less on the contract, probably not much more in it, especially as NUFC would have already given us £4m or something.

 

This thread will be good to cycle back to next summer. 

[benjii]

11 hours ago, CB Fry said:

That is utterly meaningless if he wants to stay there and Newcastle want him to stay there.

Means we can try to extract a bigger fee. But yeah, he'll still end up there if they both want that enough.

[benjii]

Ignore the above, already done!