January Transfer Window

[WALK DMC]

17 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Looks like Archer is staying and the Rangers move has fallen through.

Stewart/Larin/Archer for the remainder of this year. Revisit in the Summer with only Stewart remaining. 

Stewart is out of contract in the summer, so with his injury record there is a chance that we won't offer a new contract. 

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Looks like Archer is staying and the Rangers move has fallen through.

Stewart/Larin/Archer for the remainder of this year. Revisit in the Summer with only Stewart remaining. 

Maybe Archer will fare better in a 4-2-3-1 system?

[Saint Matty 76]

Just now, WALK DMC said:

Stewart is out of contract in the summer, so with his injury record there is a chance that we won't offer a new contract. 

Ah did wonder when that’d run out!

I imagine we’ll end up renewing on a more playing incentivised contract for a couple years.

[OldNick]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

No thread on Larin yet - which says it all. Archer and AA out, and this joke in as the only replacement, SR really are fishing for flack form the fans.

Shocking bit of business.

seems to me a lot of fans are making judgement on a reel of one game the other day and a few disgruntled fans fronm them on X or social media, I would only take the judgement of a handful of fans from this site and so listening to fans on social media is madness. It seems we are getting him, a few other clubs also wanted him and so I will give hm a chance. 

[macca155]

As FF said SR dropped a massive bollock signing Downs and letting Ballard go. Ridiculous decision. Keeping both Archer and Armstrong was equally daft they are far too similar.

Nobody sells a decent striker in January, unless stupid money is involved, or they are disruptive. We're loaning out our shit, no surprise others are trying the same trick.

I'd say sell Armstrong, keep Stewart and Archer as the main strike force. Use the talent in the U21s as back up.  Save the cash for the summer when there will be movement.

Edozie is a natural replacement for Leo, use him. 

Main problem is Downs and BBD are still on the books. Going to have to get rid of them at some point.

[Dirkdiggler]

1 hour ago, egg said:

We're "short" in the physical sense up front if we play AA. The starting point is whether AA should be our man up top. We all seem to agree it shouldn't be, and that it should be a big man. Yes? AA doesn't suddenly become that big man if he stays. What's needed is someone else to do the Stewart job - bullying, holding up, etc - if there's no Stewart. 

Your focus is a naive focus on AA or a replacement for him, not Stewart cover.  We're playing a new way and need to be able to continue that when Stewart comes off/is crocked. AA coming in to replace Stewart changes how we play. Another big man doesn't. 

It's not difficult, if you stop flapping and think about what they're trying to do. 

This 100% 

 

[Chez]

1 minute ago, James G said:

 

And although Larin has not scored a lot, he's not been given a lot of minutes, and not a lot of good chances to score, and he's often on the pitch when his team are defending a lead.

 

He's only started 2 games in the EUROPA and 28, 15, 9, 11 and 23 minutes in the other games.

In the league, he has started 1 game and was subbed at half time, and has got 14, 4, 45, 2, 14, 10 and 18 minute sub appearances.

In Ueda, Feyenord have a striker that is absolutely flying, so it's hardly surprising he is not getting games/minutes.

 

[saintant]

11 hours ago, Yozzman said:

Come on then smart arse, who should we sign with your extensive knowledge? 

Here's another one thinks there's absolutely not a single centre forward available within our budget who we could get excited about. Pay me what Spors is getting and I'll give you a bucket load of alternatives - it's his job not mine.

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

Stewart is out of contract in the summer, so with his injury record there is a chance that we won't offer a new contract. 

I think he has to go injury free for the remainder of the season, play well and score five or 6 goals to get a new contract.  

[SW5 SAINT]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

I think he has to go injury free for the remainder of the season, play well and score five or 6 goals to get a new contract.  

If that was to happen somebody else would be in for him….

[saintant]

10 hours ago, Edmonton Saint said:

I’m probably one of Adam Armstrong biggest critics, but as someone who has lived in Canada for 14 years and watched a few Canadian national team matches over the years, got to say I’d hands down keep AA over bringing in Larin. Another preposterous signing.

If this doesn't ring alarm bells for those thinking this bloke will do a job for us nothing will.

[Wade Garrett]

My Canadian mate lives in Mallorca and is actually a season ticket holder at Feyernord.

He reckons Larin is the greatest player he’s seen since Guido Carillo.  He says don’t be fooled by the fact he couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo - his xG is off the scale.

[Mboto Gorge]

2 minutes ago, saintant said:

Here's another one thinks there's absolutely not a single centre forward available within our budget who we could get excited about. Pay me what Spors is getting and I'll give you a bucket load of alternatives - it's his job not mine.

It’s laughable isn’t it . Next you’ll be having some of these nods telling you to come off the bench and slot one home from the edge of the box if you dare complain about anyone missing an easy chance 

[OldNick]

49 minutes ago, Mattio said:

If the £7m rumour is true for AA it's pure insanity bearing in mind that's what we paid for Downs.

the price for Downs means nothing, it is a case of a playerwho is likely to run down his contract and at present probably at the peak of his value. He hasnt scored for over 10 games I believe , a quarter of the season. The club are being pragmatic I suggest

[Chez]

Just now, SW5 SAINT said:

If that was to happen somebody else would be in for him….

That's fine. Better to have a player doing well and in demand than a player struggling that no one wants. Ultimately, he isnt getting a PL gig, so we will be up against other Championship sides and we can match any of those, at least for the first season. 

[OldNick]

49 minutes ago, Mboto Gorge said:

So now I’m “flapping” because we are replacing a goalscorer at this level with someone who doesn’t score any goals and who is widely regarded by fans of his formers sides as a total donkey? 
“Think about what they’re trying to do?” 🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ - have you actually watched the last 4 years of “what they’re trying to do” at all?  Why should we have any faith in anything these charlatans are trying to do when all the evidence points towards this being a shocking piece of business from owners who have already overseen a huge decline at this club since they’ve taken charge? I’m all ears 

Have you seen the bloke play? I doubt if you have, the majority of Spors recruitments have been pretty sound, he is trying to rebuild the squad and getting rid of the old guard, something that has been needed for some time. 

[saintant]

8 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

On the face of it SR are doing exactly what I’ve been predicting they’ll do - reduce overall squad quality by selling AA and brining this guy Larin in. If true it would be to form and the likely outcome is not particularly pleasing.

However, there may be more complexity at play - perhaps AA wanted out and/or didn’t see eye to eye with Eckhert…perhaps Larin could be a good alternative to Stewart…perhaps we keep Archer who is given a more wing based role per Fellows? And perhaps this guy brings a new approach that we need. He’s certainly more experienced relative to other younger players which is something we’ve been missing. His video clips show he knows where to be in the box to score goals. Let’s hope he comes good.

It's what's, commonly known as a race to a park bench which is something SR seem particularly good at.

[goodymatt]

 

[Dan Johnson]

I think Armstrong has been a good servant and an honest pro for his time here.

i don’t really buy this “guaranteed 20 goals a season in the championship” mantra, 277 career games in the championship, 91 career goals, so he averages 15 over 46 championship games. 

He’s made 29 appearances this season, and failed to score in 20 of those games. 

The majority of those for us have come from a wide position, his best position in my eyes, now we’re playing a 4-4-2, he won’t displace Leo or Fellows in those wide positions, and I just don’t think he can play that central striker position in our formation. 

Stewart has been a breathe of fresh air in 2 of the last 3 games with how he’s played that central striker position and I think signing another physical 6.2 player to replace Armstrong means we will be sticking with 4-4-2 going forward.

Armstrong just isn’t a strong finisher in my eyes, he misses more than he scores, needs 4/5 chances to convert 1, I do like his work rate but as many of us have identified, he’s been someone we should have replaced some time ago.

i think £9m is a fairly good fee, if we sold in the summer he’d be 30 in the following season, and for a player of his attributes, it maybe the best chance to maximise a fee. It may give us better spending power in the summer.

 

[Harry_SFC]

6 minutes ago, Chez said:

That's fine. Better to have a player doing well and in demand than a player struggling that no one wants. Ultimately, he isnt getting a PL gig, so we will be up against other Championship sides and we can match any of those, at least for the first season. 

And I think it's fair to say Stewart owes Saints a fair bit given how much we have got out of him so far. 

[hypochondriac]

Personally.Idon't see what was wrong with using Armstrong as an option from the right. That always seemed his best position for me.

[Dan Johnson]

1 hour ago, egg said:

We're "short" in the physical sense up front if we play AA. The starting point is whether AA should be our man up top. We all seem to agree it shouldn't be, and that it should be a big man. Yes? AA doesn't suddenly become that big man if he stays. What's needed is someone else to do the Stewart job - bullying, holding up, etc - if there's no Stewart. 

Your focus is a naive focus on AA or a replacement for him, not Stewart cover.  We're playing a new way and need to be able to continue that when Stewart comes off/is crocked. AA coming in to replace Stewart changes how we play. Another big man doesn't. 

It's not difficult, if you stop flapping and think about what they're trying to do. 

Excellent post!

selling Armstrong to me is confirmation that 5 at the back is a thing of the past and selling a player who no longer fits with the way we plan on playing.

his best position is out wide, we have Leo and fellows there who he won’t displace, Armstrong doesn’t want to play there, he wants to be central and that changes the way we play, a way that’s not really worked for us.

stewart, for me, has proved we’re better with a physical striker and that’s why we’re getting another one in.

[Toadhall Saint]

4 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Personally.Idon't see what was wrong with using Armstrong as an option from the right. That always seemed his best position for me.

And for me but I don’t think AA sees it like that.

[saintant]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Ha. I haven't identified anyone - I'm not the armchair expert saying he's a dud.

I'm also not one of the people simultaneously saying we're better with a big man up top, that AA isn't the answer, but moaning because we're getting rid of AA. There's a slight lack of logic there. 

Us armchair experts are joined by many more armchair experts from his previous clubs who've seen him play regularly and there seems to be a common opinion of this guy. Unless you can point us to a pile of glowing references for him. I'll not hold my breath. Anyway, with Downs out on loan, AA likely to leave and possibly Archer too plus the fact that Stewart could trip over a stray blade of grass at any second it seems to me we should be bringing in at least another two alongside this chump. As long as he's about 5th choice it'll be ok 🙂

[Themotherfunky]

6 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Personally.Idon't see what was wrong with using Armstrong as an option from the right. That always seemed his best position for me.

 

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

And for me but I don’t think AA sees it like that.

I remember Martin saying when we were in the championship, that AA came to him asking to be played through the middle. 

[Chez]

9 minutes ago, macca155 said:

As FF said SR dropped a massive bollock signing Downs and letting Ballard go. Ridiculous decision. Keeping both Archer and Armstrong was equally daft they are far too similar.

Nobody sells a decent striker in January, unless stupid money is involved, or they are disruptive. We're loaning out our shit, no surprise others are trying the same trick.

I'd say sell Armstrong, keep Stewart and Archer as the main strike force. Use the talent in the U21s as back up.  Save the cash for the summer when there will be movement.

Edozie is a natural replacement for Leo, use him. 

Main problem is Downs and BBD are still on the books. Going to have to get rid of them at some point.

Agree with all of this.

Hopefully BBD does enough at Derby to get a move (perhaps with us sweetening the deal). Downs is going to tricky as he will have a championship wage but done nothing to suggest he is worth it. The good news is that he started in the first three games. The bad news is didn't score and he is now injured.

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

No thread on Larin yet - which says it all. Archer and AA out, and this joke in as the only replacement, SR really are fishing for flack form the fans.

Shocking bit of business.

Let's hope he fails his medical although it's a low bar at our club so he'd probably have to have a quadruple ACL plus a ruptured achilles heel.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, egg said:

We're "short" in the physical sense up front if we play AA. The starting point is whether AA should be our man up top. We all seem to agree it shouldn't be, and that it should be a big man. Yes? AA doesn't suddenly become that big man if he stays. What's needed is someone else to do the Stewart job - bullying, holding up, etc - if there's no Stewart. 

Your focus is a naive focus on AA or a replacement for him, not Stewart cover.  We're playing a new way and need to be able to continue that when Stewart comes off/is crocked. AA coming in to replace Stewart changes how we play. Another big man doesn't. 

It's not difficult, if you stop flapping and think about what they're trying to do. 

So let's bring in a decent big man rather than Larin whose only real attraction seems to be that he's available. It's really lazy work by those at the football club.

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

That’s what seems to be the case 

🚨 There is nothing currently in the offing for Sam Edozie on deadline day, & should he stay at Southampton beyond this evening, he could be reintegrated into first-team plans #saintsfc @AlfieHouseEcho

Not a ringing endorsement but hardly surprising.

[Toadhall Saint]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

So let's bring in a decent big man rather than Larin whose only real attraction seems to be that he's available. It's really lazy work by those at the football club.

My thoughts exactly- I absolutely refuse to believe that Larin is the best option out there given the constraints our recruitment team are working with.

Edited 2 hours ago by Toadhall Saint

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Daft Kerplunk said:

The black box was a glorified excel spreadsheet, and relied on the data input of Paul Mitchell.  There was a little bit of time after he left where the data set was decent but without that input, it went kaput.  

Are you sure? Ankersen must be the one loading in the data now - oops, forgot the old mantra, shit in...shit out.

[OldNick]

8 minutes ago, saintant said:

Let's hope he fails his medical although it's a low bar at our club so he'd probably have to have a quadruple ACL plus a ruptured achilles heel.

Im surprised in that comment. What a poor thing to say

[Saint Fan CaM]

My take on this is that AA was likely to go and despite his history, he is not going to excel further at Saints - his day is done and particularly given the style of play Tonda seems to prefer with 4 at the back. When it comes to tall mobile CF’s, SR set the bar super low, so this guy just needs to demonstrate a little more movement, a little more hold-up play and a little more goal threat than the U-21 youngster to be considered a success. If he manages to stay fit and prove himself of more value than Stewart then I guess we’ll be saying that Spors has uncovered another useful asset.

Everything screams a waste of time and money, but let’s see if he meets the above criteria before writing him off.

Edited 2 hours ago by Saint Fan CaM
Clarity

[saintant]

1 hour ago, DellBlockH said:

This is what I don't  understand (among many things I don't understand). SR presumably want a successful football club either for its own sake or because it's worth more the more successful it is. If they want to sell, they will want the highest possible return and this will depend largely on which league the club is in and the assets it has in terms of playing staff. Other assets, like the ground and training ground, won't vary in value according to league. If they want to hang on to the club it (and they) will make more money if it's back in the EPL.

So I'm not clear why people seem to think that SR are deliberately sabotaging the club or making wilfully wrong decisions. Yes, you or I may think they are wrong decisions but they must have a reason for making them. They've brought in good players and a few poor ones. I think we can see this happens to most clubs. Some things work, some don't (except West Ham who only seem to bring in poor players). 

I know nothing about this Larin bloke. The consensus on here is that he is not going to improve our team. The consensus could be right. But why would SR and our scouts want to bring in someone who will make us worse?  

Does AA want out or do the management team feel, on balance, that the team will survive (or the team mentality will improve) without him? Is it just chasing a few million quid while we have the chance? (Isn't it easy to discard a few million when it's not your money?)

I see the argument that SR has a purely player-trading model. But, to keep that going, you need to develop young players to sell on. Larin doesn’t fit that model and I'm not sure our transfer trading balance shows that is happening anyway.

They don't but are incompetent.

[BARCELONASAINT]

So seems talk off Archer going to Rangers on loan maybe premature. Saints were in talks for another striker coming in on top of donkey Larins but talks have stalled meaning Archer goes nowhere!

[saintant]

44 minutes ago, OldNick said:

seems to me a lot of fans are making judgement on a reel of one game the other day and a few disgruntled fans fronm them on X or social media, I would only take the judgement of a handful of fans from this site and so listening to fans on social media is madness. It seems we are getting him, a few other clubs also wanted him and so I will give hm a chance. 

How do you know this? Probably what his agent would have you believe.

[hypochondriac]

53 minutes ago, OldNick said:

seems to me a lot of fans are making judgement on a reel of one game the other day and a few disgruntled fans fronm them on X or social media, I would only take the judgement of a handful of fans from this site and so listening to fans on social media is madness. It seems we are getting him, a few other clubs also wanted him and so I will give hm a chance. 

Pray tell how do you think an initial judgement is best made? 

When I hear about a player we might be signing I have a look at his stats and if they look shit I think there may be chance he will be shit. If he has a crap injury record I think there's a chance he will be injured a lot, if the fans of clubs he has been at are very pleased to see the back of him and think he's awful then I'll think there's a fair chance he will be awful for us. Nothing is definite of course but that's normally a pretty good initial indicator before he plays.

Edited 1 hour ago by hypochondriac

[saintant]

40 minutes ago, OldNick said:

the price for Downs means nothing, it is a case of a playerwho is likely to run down his contract and at present probably at the peak of his value. He hasnt scored for over 10 games I believe , a quarter of the season. The club are being pragmatic I suggest

Yeah because we've got money to burn 🙂

[LuckyNumber7]

1 hour ago, Mboto Gorge said:

So now I’m “flapping” because we are replacing a goalscorer at this level with someone who doesn’t score any goals and who is widely regarded by fans of his formers sides as a total donkey? 
🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Except he has scored goals at a good rate in the MLS and for Besiktas, and to a lesser extent in La Liga. He's barely played for Feyenoord so it's hardly surprising their fans aren't positive about him but we're not in the PL anymore. 

We'll have to see if he scores goals in the Championship but some of the reactions on here are beyond hysterical. 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, goodymatt said:

 

Looks like SR are not cashing in before selling up then.

43 minutes ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

So seems talk off Archer going to Rangers on loan maybe premature. Saints were in talks for another striker coming in on top of donkey Larins but talks have stalled meaning Archer goes nowhere!

Your post will please those who want three strikers on the books.

Edited 1 hour ago by Chez

[saintant]

16 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

My take on this is that AA was likely to go and despite his history, he is not going to excel further at Saints - his day is done and particularly given the style of play Tonda seems to prefer with 4 at the back. When it comes to tall mobile CF’s, SR set the bar super low, so this guy just needs to demonstrate a little more movement, a little more hold-up play and a little more goal threat than the U-21 youngster to be considered a success. If he manages to stay fit and prove himself of more value than Stewart then I guess we’ll be saying that Spors has uncovered another useful asset.

Everything screams a waste of time and money, but let’s see if he meets the above criteria before writing him off.

When you put it like that I can't see what the majority of us are worried about. Do you work for SR by any chance?

[Saint Fan CaM]

Oh and another point on Larin. Nobody seems to consider that his drop in form may have something to do with the other players he’s been playing with. How many times have some on here observed how players that are not performing for us, go on and have great seasons at their new club? Larin MAY experience a better return with better players such as Azaz, Leo and Fellows around him…who knows?

Edited 1 hour ago by Saint Fan CaM

[RedWillie]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Interesting to hear Fraser. I always thought he gave 100% despite being a bit limited. Probably missed Martin.

Has a history of tantrums. Massive one with Eddie Howe with our little (but currently more successful) Dorset neighbours where he allegedly refused to play and at Newcastle before coming to us. 

[tdmickey3]

1 minute ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Oh and another point on Larin. Nobody seems to consider that his drop in form may have something to do with the other players he’s been playing with. How many times have some on here observed how players that are not performing for us, go on and have great seasons at their new club? Larin MAY experience a better return with better players such as Azaz, Leo and Fellows around him…who knows?

I hope you are right but our record with striker recruitment is awful so I don't hold out much hope

[Saint NL]

Tbh, from what I've read on Larin, he might be a good fit.

Good with his back to goal, if he can bring it down and lay it off to Fellows/Scienza then he just has to run to the back post and he should get his fair share of tap ins.

It's very one dimensional, but if it works then we're all happy 

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, saintant said:

When you put it like that I can't see what the majority of us are worried about. Do you work for SR by any chance?

Not sure stating that SR set a super low bar when it comes to CF’s is demonstrating any form of allegiance to them. I’m as sceptical as many on here, but there is a rationale and balance to the argument that the guy may actually bring some benefit to the team, remembering that this is the January window and we’re hardly pushing hard for promotion. What will be interesting is the terms of the deal - if there’s an option to buy then we’ll know SR hands are all over this and it’ll end badly.

[Midfield_General]

59 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

My Canadian mate lives in Mallorca and is actually a season ticket holder at Feyernord.

He reckons Larin is the greatest player he’s seen since Guido Carillo.  He says don’t be fooled by the fact he couldn’t hit a cows arse with a banjo - his xG is off the scale.

My mate is Data from the Goonies, he works in Data on a Day-ter-day basis building Databases and once went on Blind-a Date-a with a girl from Daytona. He reckons Larin's data is insane, and he doesn't need to use his eyes or ears because he already knows he's good without looking, that's how good his data is. 

I think Spors might have pulled off a masterstroke here lads

Edited 1 hour ago by Midfield_General

[Chez]

2 minutes ago, RedWillie said:

Has a history of tantrums. Massive one with Eddie Howe with our little (but currently more successful) Dorset neighbours where he allegedly refused to play and at Newcastle before coming to us. 

it was Covid times. He was out of contract. If he played in that period after his contract had ended and then got injured his five year deal with Newcastle may have been scuppered. Playing for Bournemouth at that point was a huge risk in terms of his financial security. I think all fans thought he was out of order, but I suspect every single last one of them would have done exactly the same put in that position. He instantly got a reputation for being a troublemaker. 

At Newcastle he was dumped into the U21s by Howe, as he wasn't going to play him and wanted him off the wage bill. 

Not heard anything about him being a troublemaker here despite him not getting much of a chance to play in the PL.

[MarkSFC]

Now, lets be clear, this Larin guy does not excite me one bit. However, (unless I'm mistaken) his stats are for the top leagues in the respective country. Thats not to say that all of those leagues are better than the Championship but it has some relevance within the context. I am someone who will wait and see before properly judging so fingers crossed!

I am pleased actually to see those leaving - including AA - leaving!

It feels like we are finally clearing the decks and close to  a reset. I havn't been a fan of Tonda and do think we should of gone for more experience but perhaps he is starting to show some ability with the change of formation in the last couple of games. 

We might make the play-offs still. Either way the end of the season needs to be as good as possible to take into next season. 

It would be great if we see someone else in addition to this Larin bloke today.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

The thing with a striker is that they could have a shit time at a club and then somehow, something just clicks when they get a move and they look like a different player.

I have my concerns but he could turn out to be a great signing.