Saints Charged With Spying on Mboro Training

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

Sounds underhanded and corrupt to me, surely the EFL cant just ignore an alleged breach of the rules because the teams come to an agreement? 

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

Ah, good old blackmail.

[AlexLaw76]

Jordan saying “Gibbo” doing a deal with Saints is probably the only way Boro can get something from this.

[Miltonaggro]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Don Gibbo does not lose

 

I didn't actually know he putted from the rough.  Rocking the predatory art teacher look.

[23rdSaint]

4 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I’d love to know who that journalist was who asked Tonda if he was a cheat. Twat.

 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

That's a joke right? They didn't really send a reporter there to speak live from the "scene of the crime"?

They've been talking about it non stop for the last 10 minutes, Charlie Austin giving his expert view and a reporter live at the crime scene point out the tree and toilets, its hilarious stuff.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Turkish

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Turkish said:

They've been talking about it non stop for the last 10 minutes, Charlie Austin giving his expert view and a reporter live at the crime scene point out the tree and toilets, its hilarious stuff.

 

😂😂😂 

 

Where were you when Diana died?

Where were you on 9/11?

Where were you when the Saints intern ran into the toilets to get changed?

[Lighthouse]

Je suis Gibson.

[obelisk]

7 minutes ago, NewYorkSaint said:

 I would gladly settle for a 10-pt deduction next time we're in the championship

Remind me not to employ you as a witness for the defence. Ludicrously over the top.

[Toadhall Saint]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

According to SSN this was the crime scene. The spy was hiding behind this tree then when seen ran into the bogs to get changed. The outrage, the tears, the over the top reporting with everyone having an opinion. Its actually comical 

 

Yeah I watched that this morning- no mention of surveillance equipment from memory

[Sheaf Saint]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

In which case I hope we are going to make a counter complaint to the EFL that he is not acting in good faith and engaging in blackmail / extortion.

Edited 1 hour ago by Sheaf Saint

[Saint_clark]

Just now, obelisk said:

Remind me not to employ you as a witness for the defence. Ludicrously over the top.

10 is too much but honestly, if we have done it then a fine of a million and a points deduction our next season in the championship is probably about right. 

 

Although there probably needs to be a limitation on how long it applies...if we don't come back down for 20 years it would seem a bit ridiculous to punish a completely different club, basically.

[bpsaint]

11 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

Fair enough, we’ll give them Baz and Damian Downs and all of this goes away.

 

[Dman]

10 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

This is what I don't get or understand from any of this, why do they seemingly think that they can dictate the punishment (or if it happens). 

How much would we owe them? the revenue generated from the play-off final? Its not like we've done this in a 200m shoot out game, they'd still have to beat Hull (which if last night was anything to go by, they'd be dead on their feet by the time the game started). 

If this has happened and he has approached saints, I hope we take the fuckers to the cleaners. 

[Gloucester Saint]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

10 is too much but honestly, if we have done it then a fine of a million and a points deduction our next season in the championship is probably about right. 

 

Although there probably needs to be a limitation on how long it applies...if we don't come back down for 20 years it would seem a bit ridiculous to punish a completely different club, basically.

£2m and suspended points fine. And no Steve, that money goes to the EFL as a competition and not Middlesbrough.

You’ve had plenty of levelling up money already.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, Gloucester Saint said:

£2m and suspended points fine. And no Steve, that money goes to the EFL as a competition and not Middlesbrough.

You’ve had plenty of levelling up money already.

I'd prefer the money be donated to charity.

Maybe the Saints Foundation to properly wind up Boro.

[coalman]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

The trouble is, this is between Saints and the independent tribunal now. They're the ones pressing charges not Middlesbrough. Middlesbrough may withdraw their complaint but the tribunal is likely to go ahead.

If it's around averting a civil lawsuit then the rules change again because then they have to demonstrate how it negatively affected them and the first half at Boro is going to be pretty conclusive evidence that we didn't gain an advantage from it.

[Turkish]

Imagine if you're the spy now. It was an intern wasn't it and you'd innocently done it off your own back as  who was up there for the game and decided as part of your own education to pop along and see another team train for an hour. Now you're at the centre off all this nonsense and talk of getting your club thrown out of a game which could cost them 200m. 😂

[Dman]

17 minutes ago, Turkish said:

According to SSN this was the crime scene. The spy was hiding behind this tree then when seen ran into the bogs to get changed. The outrage, the tears, the over the top reporting with everyone having an opinion. Its actually comical 

 

That to me looks like it is 100% part of the golf course / hotel, which would probably be considered pubically accessible land. 

Not quite the stakeout the media fed, is it. 

[bpsaint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/28839608
 

Different governing body but a bit of precedent set previously on “spying”.

[64saint]

12 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Sorry pal, but we’re not winning this one - it’s a step too far. Boro are better than us and the officials are on their side too. Come back here to chastise me if I’m wrong.😑 

Ok, I've come back to chastise you mate.  You most certainly got it wrong. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

This is what I don't get or understand from any of this, why do they seemingly think that they can dictate the punishment (or if it happens). 

How much would we owe them? the revenue generated from the play-off final? Its not like we've done this in a 200m shoot out game, they'd still have to beat Hull (which if last night was anything to go by, they'd be dead on their feet by the time the game started). 

If this has happened and he has approached saints, I hope we take the fuckers to the cleaners. 

Usually the clubs involved jointly agree that the losers get all the revenue. 

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Dman said:

That to me looks like it is 100% part of the golf course / hotel, which would probably be considered pubically accessible land. 

Not quite the stakeout the media fed, is it. 

Yep, when the reporter turned round the changing rooms and hotel bit was right behind him. Surely a better stakeout point and much more hidden would the trees the other side of the pitches? It's all rather weird.

here you go that’s the golf course there, he was 150 yards away from the training pitches the reporter said. The reporter turned round and there it is

this is farcical 😂😂

Edited 1 hour ago by Turkish

[Gloucester Saint]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I'd prefer the money be donated to charity.

Maybe the Saints Foundation to properly wind up Boro.

BHF and CRUK took a hammering during the pandemic so that would be my choice.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Imagine if you're the spy now. It was an intern wasn't it and you'd innocently done it off your own back as  who was up there for the game and decided as part of your own education to pop along and see another team train for an hour. Now you're at the centre off all this nonsense and talk of getting your club thrown out of a game which could cost them 200m. 😂

And where would you be now? In some witness protection program probably. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Yep, when the reporter turned round the changing rooms and hotel bit was right behind him. Surely a better stakeout point and much more hidden would the trees the other side of the pitches? It's all rather weird.

I had orginally thought that we were probably doing this all the time, but I'm starting to think, someone has let on how unsecure and stupid their secuirty is and we've had a bit of a sneaky oportunitic go at gaining an advantage. 

Its cheating by the definition, but so is diving, timewasting etc. 

Storm in a tea cup drummed up by a desperate Boro side who knew they didn't have what it takes to beat us on the pitch. 

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And where would you be now? In some witness protection program probably. 

On his way to Hull 

[Saint_clark]

I don't believe it'll happen but if they did decide to throw us out of the playoffs, what do we think Saints response would be in terms of legal action? That would cost us a hell of a lot.

[Pengi]

27 minutes ago, Turkish said:

According to SSN this was the crime scene. The spy was hiding behind this tree then when seen ran into the bogs to get changed. The outrage, the tears, the over the top reporting with everyone having an opinion. Its actually comical 

At the beginning of the SSN report, to the left of the tree is a signsaying that the land is private etc. If the spy was standing behind the tree and fence then they were not on the training ground (sorry, I mistakenly added this to your quote - meant to quote your quote)

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Pengi
Mistakenly added my message to the quotr

[Topcat]

The EFL will have to punish us in a way that deters future offenders.  They previously fined Leeds £200,000.  So a punishment that raises that up would be appropriate to deter others.  £2 million to £5 million would hurt when combined with firing the analyst and their immediate boss.

 

[Bob60]

 I think Boro doing all this press stuff is bringing the game into disrepute more than anything we did.

[Dman]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yep, when the reporter turned round the changing rooms and hotel bit was right behind him. Surely a better stakeout point and much more hidden would the trees the other side of the pitches? It's all rather weird.

here you go that’s the golf course there, he was 150 yards away from the training pitches the reporter said. The reporter turned round and there it is

this is farcical 😂😂

It makes it even more fucking annoying / stupid / braindead that we got caught ffs. 

Just carry a golf bag on you, you absolute clown. 

[Saint_clark]

9 minutes ago, Dman said:

That to me looks like it is 100% part of the golf course / hotel, which would probably be considered pubically accessible land. 

Not quite the stakeout the media fed, is it. 

Next time we play them I might stay there a few days before the game and hang around recording and making notes just to fuck with them.

[Saint_Greg]

 

[OldNick]

Just now, Dman said:

It makes it even more fucking annoying / stupid / braindead that we got caught ffs. 

Just carry a golf bag on you, you absolute clown. 

Apparently you can get Raybans witha video recorder in them, less obvious

[Saint_clark]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

It makes it even more fucking annoying / stupid / braindead that we got caught ffs. 

Just carry a golf bag on you, you absolute clown. 

 

[Hawkswood]

Not sure anyone has mentioned this but we got caught doing whatever we were supposedly doing, so we couldn't use it to our benefit. So we beat boro fairly. Whats the issue ? 😁

[DellBlockH]

28 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Sounds like it

I'm not sure it's in "Gibbo's" hands. The EFL is running the investigation.

[bender]

Anyone actually excited about going to Wembley again.  I don't feel I can unless this is sorted

[AlexLaw76]

Stefan Borson now chatting about it….

 

There is no situation in English football where it has come to ahead in a short space of time

Leeds were systematically doing it and got a £200k fine, which brought about the 72 hour rule

Direction of travel is a sporting sanction.

level of certainty from some about the sanctions is over the top

This not Boro v Southampton, it is the EFL v Southampton and is a disciplinary issue

if this is similar to Leeds, then it is a bigger issue as Wrexham finished 7th, how are they compensated, for example

Boro have a duty to cooperate and have provided their evidence. This person ran to the loos to get changed, Saints are not denying and accept it happened

This is not a training ground behind big fences, this is very open. If you want to watch Boro train, it is very simple to do. Hard for Boro to say what they are doing is all hush hush when anyone can watch them

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by AlexLaw76

[Oldandtired]

If (still to be proved) that things were as reported, as far as I can see the only tactical advantage to be gained was a reaffirmation the main Boro tactic was to try and kick anybody that moves on the Saints side into row z...

[Dman]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Stefan Borson now chatting about it….

 

There is no situation in English football where it has come to ahead in a short space of time

Leeds were systematically doing it and got a £200k fine, which brought about the 72 hour rule

Direction of travel is a sporting sanction.

level of certainty from some about of the sanctions is is over the top

This not Boro v Southampton, it is the EFL v Southampton and is a disciplinary issue

if this is similar to Leeds, then it is a bigger issue as Wrexham finished 7th, how are they compensated, for example

Boro have a duty to cooperate and have provided their evidence. This person ran to the loos to get changed, Saints are not denying and accept it happened

This is not a training ground behind big fences, this is very open. If you want to watch Boro train, it is very simple to do. Hard for Boro to say what they are doing is all hush hush when anyone can watch them

 

 

 

 

This, for me, is a huge mitigation. 

Sneaking in to a private area and hiding in bushes is one thing and would rightly deserve an incredibly harsh punishment. 

Standing behind a publically accessible fence and peeping over is much, much less serious. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Stefan Borson now chatting about it….

 

There is no situation in English football where it has come to ahead in a short space of time

Leeds were systematically doing it and got a £200k fine, which brought about the 72 hour rule

Direction of travel is a sporting sanction.

level of certainty from some about of the sanctions is is over the top

This not Boro v Southampton, it is the EFL v Southampton and is a disciplinary issue

if this is similar to Leeds, then it is a bigger issue as Wrexham finished 7th, how are they compensated, for example

Boro have a duty to cooperate and have provided their evidence. This person ran to the loos to get changed, Saints are not denying and accept it happened

This is not a training ground behind big fences, this is very open. If you want to watch Boro train, it is very simple to do. Hard for Boro to say what they are doing is all hush hush when anyone can watch them

"accept it happened"

Where have they done that?

 

 

 

 

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

 

To the EFL

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

To the EFL

How do you know that?

[bpsaint]

9 minutes ago, Saint_Greg said:

 

Cundy was decent last night tbf. Another ex player that doesn’t think it’s that much of a deal.

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Dell McDellFace said:

I'm conflicted on this. Much as I want success for us, something stinks about "wanting more time to conduct an internal investigation". Obviously, the longer it goes, the more complicated it would be for everyone else involved if we were to be thrown out of the playoffs. Do Middlesbrough keep training? For how long? Who do Hull prepare for? What if the final goes ahead and we win? Would it be awarded to Hull, replayed between Middlesbrough and Hull, .....

And realistically, isn't it simply a matter of answering just a few simple questions:

• What was the level of sophistication of the alleged spying (mobile phone to espionage level equipment)
• Who authorised it?
• Who knew about it?
• Was this a one-off or has it been going on for some time?

I think we are being deliberately coy and "clever" to remove the option of being eliminated, and I'm not sure I like it. 

This 'wanting more time' is a fallacy. We are entitled to 14 days to answer a charge. The EFL hopes to expedite to get it done more quickly, but that was a hope. So far we've had what 4 days, if it takes until the end of the week to complete, that is not wanting more time it is merely using the time we are entitled to wisely and would still mean us responding more quickly than the rules suggest. We could take until the end of next week and still be within the time allowed under the regulations. We are not playing for time, that is the press view, we are merely doing due diligence in something that could have far reaching and damaging results. Unless the charges were completely spurious, the Club is doing the right thing in being thorough in their investigations.

Edited 23 minutes ago by VectisSaint
Whoops, Phreudian slip 🙄

[Toadhall Saint]

35 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Jordan saying “Gibbo” doing a deal with Saints is probably the only way Boro can get something from this.

God father of teeside?

[SaintsLoyal]

I think Boro have lost plenty of credibility briefing the media yesterday and getting the likes of Martin Ziegler to do their dirty work.

It was so blatant that it will need to be highlighted by Saints in any dossier given to the FL

Boro are using the media to try and dictate and influence the job of the FL and thats not right. 
 

[The Kraken]

11 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I don't believe it'll happen but if they did decide to throw us out of the playoffs, what do we think Saints response would be in terms of legal action? That would cost us a hell of a lot.

‘Throw us out of the playoffs’ is a very woolly definition of what the EFL will be able to do. If we’re guilty, they have to set a precedent for any future misdemeanours by other clubs. So it’s either a fine at the lower end of the scale, or a points deduction at the higher end. The situation of us being in the playoffs makes it very complicated but they can’t just say ‘you’re eliminated from the playoffs’ surely, as that is no sort of precedent. If it’s a points deduction then that can only really happen from next season / the next time we start in the championship. We finished comfortably in the playoffs, 9 points clear of 7th place with a massive goal difference advantage. So, to knock us out of this seasons playoffs, they would have to apply a 10 point deduction, and have that as the precedent for whatever were found guilty of.

I really wouldn’t fancy being in the EFL’s shoes. And without knowing just how deep spygate went up the chain for us, it’s ridiculously difficult to speculate. It’s been said various times, we absolutely need to consider what middle ground there is between a fine and a points deduction, such as individual suspensions and the like. But that simply can’t be done until all facts are laid bare.

I can only imagine any punishment we get will not be retrospective and will apply to future Championship seasons. Unless it’s a fine and a slap on the wrists if the facts deem it so.