Saints Expelled from Playoffs

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Saint_lambden said:

Don’t have any ITK on this. Club are keeping very tight lipped. I’m guessing we’re trying to go with the complete opposite approach of Boro in that sense and look to use that as a legal tactic of ‘they’ve been leaking to the media whilst we’ve tried to follow the proper process of disclosure’. 

For what its worth, this is true by the way. 

So unless MB is board memeber or part of the legal team or getting his info from boro, bucket of salt needed at this stage. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, stfrancisofbenali said:

Thank you for this. Extremely helpful. Shall tuck ultra vires up my sleeve for the comings days.

Indeed. The bit about the high court injunction feels likely if they go nuclear but worth pointing out that the post also assumes that this was a one off and not systemic. 

[mss636]

13 minutes ago, St Chalet said:

Worrying given you clearly have some ITK credibility history.

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

[beatlesaint]

6 minutes ago, Dman said:

who else has grassed us up then?

Anyone who trains in plain public site may have taken a flyer on it I guess.

[Midfield_General]

Just now, obelisk said:

It's what I've been waiting for all season. This Independent Hearing is certainly getting the juices of anticipation going. This is where the action is. Will it go to penalties or will it be decided in the time allotted? This is most certainly what football is all about. Fine margins and master tacticians with the result in the balance. Can't wait. Perhaps they should have sold tickets.

Hopefully they'll announce the decision tomorrow and then Stockley Park will whisper in the chair's ear, make him go to the monitor, and then we all have to wait another four years while VAR* decides whether the decision stands or not 

(* Verified Arbitration Representatives) 

[Toadhall Saint]

13 minutes ago, Dman said:

I outright refuse to believe that we would have done anything to tresspass on an oppositions training ground. 

If there is eveidence, it would have to be from clubs with a training ground visible from a public place. 

And the evidence would need to be sure that it was within 72 hours of the game.

[beatlesaint]

2 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

We didn’t beat Bristol C or Millwall home or away and lost at Norwich so not really sure any advantage was gained there 

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

And the evidence would need to be sure that it was within 72 hours of the game.

That would be pretty easy to prove tbf

[Farmer Saint]

13 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I must say that although I still don't think they will be able to kick us out it is slightly disconcerting that people with ITK info like @Saint_lambden and @MB are the most pessimistic. 

You're being sarcastic I assume?

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

If we're proved to have done it multiple times, then I think there is a case to answer on being chucked out the playoffs. 

If not then the punishment doesn't fit the crime and we'll be fine.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

5 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

Where are you getting that from? And surely if true, these teams would have made a complaint at the time. I smell BS

[Addict54]

6 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

We’ve not been charged in relation to any accusations by other clubs so that is outside of the purview of the hearing

[Whitey Grandad]

35 minutes ago, MB said:

Issue is there is evidence it’s systemic. 

By many clubs.

[Matthew Le God]

This didn't get his team chucked out of a competition for spying on tactics 😉 

 

 

[Saint_lambden]

1 minute ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Where are you getting that from? And surely if true, these teams would have made a complaint at the time. I smell BS

But they may not have been aware they had been spied on at the time, and it’s only in the last few days that they would have gone back at looked at CCTV from the 2/3 days before we would have played them to see if they could spot anyone out of place (made even easier now they know his name/what he looks like etc.). 

[Addict54]

2 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

But they may not have been aware they had been spied on at the time, and it’s only in the last few days that they would have gone back at looked at CCTV from the 2/3 days before we would have played them to see if they could spot anyone out of place (made even easier now they know his name/what he looks like etc.). 

I don’t buy this at all

[saintant]

40 minutes ago, WALK DMC said:

In the article in today's Guardian, it stated that any penalty points deduction could be applied in either the Premier league or Championship. I don't know if they are right, merely that they they stated it with certainty. Middlesbrough to train for playoff final in case Southampton are expelled over spygate | Middlesbrough | The Guardian

I bet Hull's junior analyst has already booked a few days in Gibbos hotel to stake out the lie of the land and select the optimum spots for shots taken with his Iphone.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

But they may not have been aware they had been spied on at the time, and it’s only in the last few days that they would have gone back at looked at CCTV from the 2/3 days before we would have played them to see if they could spot anyone out of place (made even easier now they know his name/what he looks like etc.). 

Why should they bother?

[Dman]

13 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

I've just had a look at google maps and Millwall looks like you could observe training from the pavement outside 😂

Bristol City has a golf course attached so that is feasible that we might have done that - Norwich looks like its impossible to spy unless you've tresspassed.

Jesus, I can't wait for this to be over, i am in way too deep. 

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

But they may not have been aware they had been spied on at the time, and it’s only in the last few days that they would have gone back at looked at CCTV from the 2/3 days before we would have played them to see if they could spot anyone out of place (made even easier now they know his name/what he looks like etc.). 

Given how poorly he tried to hide himself and how quickly he shit himself when caught, I think its unlikley that we've sent the same fella before and he wasn't caught. 

[Jack]

Whatever the outcome, the whole thing is shoddy and amateurish from the club since the supposed event. Especially in terms of releasing ticketing details and then having to take it down again. I get being tight lipped about the event itself, but poorly managed since. 

[saintant]

36 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Spot on 🙂

[Saint_clark]

6 minutes ago, Saint_lambden said:

But they may not have been aware they had been spied on at the time, and it’s only in the last few days that they would have gone back at looked at CCTV from the 2/3 days before we would have played them to see if they could spot anyone out of place (made even easier now they know his name/what he looks like etc.). 

I refuse to believe football clubs would keep CCTV footage for that long, it takes up masses and masses of storage space. I work in a government building and we only keep ours for 2 months. 

[Turkish]

18 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

Well we were shit against all 3 of them so maybe it's best we give up anyway

[St Chalet]

You’d have to think this wasn’t systemic and authorised. 
 

If it was, you’d have to think the club would have suspended all involved including Tonda before the games if there was evidence. 

[Secret Site Agent]

37 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Looking at the picture, he isnt even on the grounds he is behind a fence.

AND my excuse would be that someone is taking a photo of me, so I took a photo of them.

This has to be bollocks, it certainly isnt taken with a CCTV camera.

[saintant]

29 minutes ago, Dman said:

who else has grassed us up then?

Just joined the AA.

[Saint86]

27 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Key point there from @Addict54 I reckon...

If there's proof that we've been doing it "systemically" then the EFL need to open up a wider investigation across ALL clubs, given the unlikely scenario that it's just us... as per @SaintlyAnd's post yesterday, whose ex-analyst friend said "all clubs do it" (paraphrasing)...

If so, we were the ones stupid enough to get caught.

[Thripp87]

59 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Yep, spot on. I have to do yearly refresher courses on this at work because the consequences of an unauthorised leak of personal information, however minor and insignificant it might seem, are absolutely huge.

The golf club and hotel is a distinct legal entity from the football club. Even being owned by the same person doesn't grant them the right to share personal information without the explicit consent of the individual in question. 

I am sure that Gibson and the management team at the hotel will be fully aware of this, so I suspect the leaked report about the credit card transaction is just a bluff, intended just to put extra pressure on us to fess up.

The publication of the photo, on the other hand, is another matter entirely. If Will wants to, he could take Boro and the Daily Mail to the cleaners for distress caused by misuse of personal information.

Will is going to be absolutely loaded after this.

He can sue Middlesbrough and take a pay off from Saints if he takes the brunt and denies anyone giving him orders to go.

Saw people wanting him to have sympathy, he’s laughing his way to the bank.

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, St Chalet said:

You’d have to think this wasn’t systemic and authorised. 
 

If it was, you’d have to think the club would have suspended all involved including Tonda before the games if there was evidence. 

Whilst I agree it is against the EFL rules, and do think its all blown way out of proportion. You need to be incredibly naive to beleive the lone wolf theory. 

[Pip]

At what point are we going to report Boro to the EFL for not behaving towards us with the utmost good faith?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

If so, we were the ones stupid enough to get caught.

We were the only ones playing Middlesbrough two days later.

The timing of all this stinks and that stink is coming from the North East. 

[saintant]

28 minutes ago, obelisk said:

It's what I've been waiting for all season. This Independent Hearing is certainly getting the juices of anticipation going. This is where the action is. Will it go to penalties or will it be decided in the time allotted? This is most certainly what football is all about. Fine margins and master tacticians with the result in the balance. Can't wait. Perhaps they should have sold tickets.

Is there a dodgy live stream for it?

[Secret Site Agent]

23 minutes ago, mss636 said:

Whineboro claiming Bristol C, Norwich and Milwall have provided evidence that they were spied on. Obviously can’t confirm this is true 

Yep, I believe they were spied upon but decided not to do anything about it at the time because of excuses and reasons, and just bcause.

So thay now want to see justice done because they want not only Southampton to be thrown out of the play offs, but ALL teams thrown out and the season reset.  The premier league will have to take the year off until this can be resolved.

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Dman said:

Whilst I agree it is against the EFL rules, and do think its all blown way out of proportion. You need to be incredibly naive to beleive the lone wolf theory. 

Indeed.  But belief and proof are never seen in the same room together. 

[revolution saint]

Is it too much to hope it'll all be done and dusted by the end of tomorrow?  Bored now.

[Fabrice29]

17 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Between now and the playoff final we need to come up with a song that 36k Saints fans can sing about Middlesbrough.

One last opportunity to stick one back at them for sure.

(1) ‘Are you watching Middlesbrough?’ (Maybe simple but it’s a start)

Watch out, MLT will be sent out to tell you to stop again if you’re not careful. 

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Indeed.  But belief and proof are never seen in the same room together. 

I don't disagree. 

Basically I couldnt really care about it. Its breakig the rules, yes, but so is diving, time wasting etc. 

Its sneaky, in any other league across the world its not against the rules, the EFL introduced it after being bitten before. 

If you think its anything more than that, youre either a Boro fan or a complete sap. 

[saintant]

14 minutes ago, Dman said:

Given how poorly he tried to hide himself and how quickly he shit himself when caught, I think its unlikley that we've sent the same fella before and he wasn't caught. 

I guess that explains the change of clothes.

[LeBizzier69]

31 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Indeed. The bit about the high court injunction feels likely if they go nuclear but worth pointing out that the post also assumes that this was a one off and not systemic. 

I’d still be interested to know how on earth you prove it’s systemic …. Unless someone has kept a diary and/or there’s an obvious paper trail.

Just cctv of someone at a game or training ground won’t be enough. 
 

How would you put anything credible enough together and for that to be reviewed and challenged on the timeframe available would also be impossible. Surely.

[John Boy Saint]

4 minutes ago, Secret Site Agent said:

Looking at the picture, he isnt even on the grounds he is behind a fence.

AND my excuse would be that someone is taking a photo of me, so I took a photo of them.

This has to be bollocks, it certainly isnt taken with a CCTV camera.

As I said earlier his phone is pointing at  the person supposedly taking the photo of him, who is approaching from a bloody big open space of grass. 
The only photo that should exist is one of his backside high tailing it out of there, and not his stupid face.
 

[saintant]

11 minutes ago, Thripp87 said:

Will is going to be absolutely loaded after this.

He can sue Middlesbrough and take a pay off from Saints if he takes the brunt and denies anyone giving him orders to go.

Saw people wanting him to have sympathy, he’s laughing his way to the bank.

And people said he was stupid!

[Midfield_General]

21 minutes ago, St Chalet said:

You’d have to think this wasn’t systemic and authorised. 
 

If it was, you’d have to think the club would have suspended all involved including Tonda before the games if there was evidence. 

Do you seriously think we would suspend our own first team manager before our two biggest games of the season, with hundreds of millions resting on the outcome, just because some kid had been silly enough to get caught doing it on public land with an iphone, whether other people were previously aware of it or not? Do people really still think football is squeaky clean? 

Edited Thursday at 14:56 by Midfield_General

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, Dman said:

Whilst I agree it is against the EFL rules, and do think its all blown way out of proportion. You need to be incredibly naive to beleive the lone wolf theory. 

Nobody has to totally believe it but presumably someone has to disprove it beyond all question.

[saintant]

6 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

I’d still be interested to know how on earth you prove it’s systemic …. Unless someone has kept a diary and/or there’s an obvious paper trail.

Just cctv of someone at a game or training ground won’t be enough. 
 

How would you put anything credible enough together and for that to be reviewed and challenged on the timeframe available would also be impossible. Surely.

Hasn't it been claimed someone previously at the club has compiled a report detailing this has been going on for some time?

[Miltonaggro]

2 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Let's do a thought experiment and imagine they announce they are kicking us out tomorrow. We obviously won't just allow that to happen and will be sending lawyers in to contest it left right and centre. As @Miltonaggro alluded to, we will be applying for all sorts of injunctions and court petitions and they absolutely won't just be able to do that without consequence. This is the real world and the efl will know this. 

That will be the SFC default. All primed. Impressive crisis management so far compared to MFC’s chaos!

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

I’d still be interested to know how on earth you prove it’s systemic …. Unless someone has kept a diary and/or there’s an obvious paper trail.

Just cctv of someone at a game or training ground won’t be enough. 
 

How would you put anything credible enough together and for that to be reviewed and challenged on the timeframe available would also be impossible. Surely.

Systemic 😂

Like the systemic racism in the Met you mean!!

The drama and language used in this is mental. Espionage, paper trail, now systemic 

 

[die Mannyschaft]

25 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

We didn’t beat Bristol C or Millwall home or away and lost at Norwich so not really sure any advantage was gained there 

It can just be a £500k or £1m fine for snooping. Saints could easily prove from match recording thar we cany even organise out own players in position let alone follow pre planned tactics. 

I think the fine will be huge as Boro appear to have influence and other teams jumping on band wagon. Maybe transfer ban also. If we don't win v Hull it will be 9 points deduction just enough to ensure we are in relegation all season.

Boro are doing everything to destabilise Saints and want EFL, Sky, clubs to support Hull. In some ways Hull can't lose now in the eyes of Boro and tgey are banking on a double hit, first Saints lose, second it will give EFL and Boro time to work out huge fine and points and antjng else.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

Systemic 😂

Like the systemic racism in the Met you mean!!

The drama and language used in this is mental. Espionage, paper trail, now systemic 

 

Its utter mental. Honestly, the Boro PR team have played a blinder. 

Everyone has forgotten how they finished the season and all focus is now on how much of a hero HellBerg is for surving through such a difficult time of his life. 

[Midfield_General]

2 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

That will be the SFC default. All primed. Impressive crisis management so far compared to MFC’s chaos!

Starting with forcing the play-off final to be moved until such time as the appeal is concluded. 

Yes, I'm sure everyone involved would love to have to handle that