Four days later - should Saints still sack Tonda?

[Miltonaggro]

Everyone thought that we were going to be clobbered by a multi-million pound fine, so that's something.  For Tonda to remain in place, the long-suffering fans would need genuine compensation for the debacle in terms of semi final refunds and discounted season tickets, the FA would have to play ball, you would have to have to canvass the first team and give them major sweeteners to stay, go all out to retain Bree and Stewart and re-sign Peretz and Larin.  Then when the likes of Jander are offski, reinvest all of the funds, specifically in some mentally / physically tough footballers who won't give a shit about the Boro bollocks.  Then you go all out for autos, ruthless and nobody likes us but we don't care, siege mentality.  It's a long shot but it might just work, but there are an awful lot of ifs, buts, and maybes that need resolving A S A fucking P...

[St Chalet]

If the players and Tonda were up for the 'Last Dance' we create a siege mentality and go again.

Also, this talk of Jander going, bloke has a contract, he can go if we get top dollar, nothing less.

[Cabrone]

If he actually manages to stay I reckon next season would be an absolute belter.

Lots of spicy fixtures + banter and a run at top 2.

Proper football.

[AlexLaw76]

How will the Siege mentality work with Baz in goal?

[qwertyell]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Keep him as a big 🖕🏼 to everyone 

Including ourselves, when further evidence comes to light of the other games we spied on in a six month period, and we can't try and mitigate any extra punishment on the grounds that we've taken the matter seriously, reset the culture, and cut ties with the people responsible - because the people responsible will still be working at the club. 

I don't think the damage caused to us has been fully accounted for yet. The FA investigation will turn up more shit.

Cleaning house is the only way to draw a line and try to start moving forward. 

[Harry_SFC]

Just now, Cabrone said:

If he actually manages to stay I reckon next season would be an absolute belter.

Lots of spicy fixtures + banter and a run at top 2.

Proper football.

I'm actually looking forward to next season (If Tonda stays and isn't banned) I really don't like the PL and only wanted us to go up to keep our best players and become more financially stable. 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Tonda's actions cost us the opportunity to play premier league football and that amounts to £200m in many pundits' estimates. Even in the world of football, surely that's not acceptable.

A good argument is that without him we couldn't have got to the play off places. But we've all watched the games. He had an initial new manager bounce then we went in to a deep dive. What changed in January? A new goalkeeper, a new formation and centre forwards that can do a job. Was he the real reason for our unbeaten run or could another half decent manager have done the same?

His scouting missions to other clubs were only a small part of his planning process. Rumour has it that other clubs knew and even prepared fake practice drills to confuse him. Of more concern is that he said he didn't know what he was doing is unlawful and the alleged 'bullying' tactics he used. Again, there's no place forthat in SFC. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Tonda's actions cost us the opportunity to play premier league football and that amounts to £200m in many pundits' estimates. Even in the world of football, surely that's not acceptable.

A good argument is that without him we couldn't have got to the play off places. But we've all watched the games. He had an initial new manager bounce then we went in to a deep dive. What changed in January? A new goalkeeper, a new formation and centre forwards that can do a job. Was he the real reason for our unbeaten run or could another half decent manager have done the same?

His scouting missions to other clubs were only a small part of his planning process. Rumour has it that other clubs knew and even prepared fake practice drills to confuse him. Of more concern is that he said he didn't know what he was doing is unlawful and the alleged 'bullying' tactics he used. Again, there's no place forthat in SFC. 

The reality is he will probably be let go and we will get another wedge of points deducted next season.

[saint michael]

12 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

How will the Siege mentality work with Baz in goal?

If he is in goal we will be under siege

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The reality is he will probably be let go and we will get another wedge of points deducted next season.

Which is why we need to go on the offensive, persue a civil action and prove this law is wrong on so many counts...otherwise I suspect you're right. The FA will walk all over us like they do other clubs that can't defend themselves (eg. Reading, Sheff Wed)

[egg]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

There seems to be a lot of heart over head going on with this topic (who'd have guessed football fans could be passionate and irrational, eh!)

As much as I would like to keep him on for his ability, his position is simply untenable given everything that came out of the hearing. 

It's not so much the fact that he was breaking rules. It's more that he wasn't clever enough to do it without getting caught, and that cost the club the chance of promotion. 

There's no way he could possibly survive that in any other industry.

Pretty much this. My head rules, and still tells me that his position is untenable, although my heart will take over next season if he's still in charge. 

[bogwoppit]

I submitted yes by mistake!!! I think we should keep him. 

I suppose it will be decided by and if there are any further sanctions from outside the club. Also, internally if work colleagues start to portray him in a negative light- I don’t think this will be the case, but who knows. Will sponsors/ sponsorship pressures have a bearing on his position?
Ultimately, a decision needs to be made sooner than later.

[Miltonaggro]

33 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

How will the Siege mentality work with Baz in goal?

Like Zulu but different result. 

[SaintsfanSwindon]

Voted No but the caveat being as long as ALL the players are 100% behind him 

[Cuddles]

3 minutes ago, SaintsfanSwindon said:

Voted No but the caveat being as long as ALL the players are 100% behind him 

What if Baz is upset?

[Football Special]

36 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

The reality is he will probably be let go and we will get another wedge of points deducted next season.

Who is giving us more points? Not sure where that idea is coming from 

[St Chalet]

1 minute ago, Cuddles said:

What if Baz is upset?

Strongest argument I've yet heard for keeping him.

[Gloucester Saint]

52 minutes ago, Football Special said:

Who is giving us more points? Not sure where that idea is coming from 

One of Alex’s friends. If it happens, it would be before end of June. They’ll keep offences and points within seasons generally. 

[Eire Saint]

A Tonda in the hand is worth two in the bush. 

Too soon?

[Cuddles]

5 minutes ago, Eire Saint said:

A Tonda in the hand is worth two in the bush. 

Too soon?

No, that's amazing 🤣

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

How will the Siege mentality work with Baz in goal?

Presumably, if Tonda stays, we get Peretz back. Putting the band back together so to speak...

[SW11_Saint]

15 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Presumably, if Tonda stays, we get Peretz back. Putting the band back together so to speak...

Why would you think that? 

[Jack]

4 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Fuck it, I am going to shift to Tonda IN. 

He shouldn't given what he is central to regarding the lost opportunity, which has given us 1 season in a stronger league to get it right, or we are down for a generation.

But, my faith is Sports Republic to remotely get it right is at around 1%

This is where I’m at. Still absolutely raging that we did ourselves out of the playoffs in that manner, and Tonda has to own that. But he also got us there in the first place when the season looked a write off by October, and I have absolutely zero faith in SR finding a suitable replacement. They got lucky with Tonda, even if he’s a cheat, we need to own it and focus on what he did well rather than what he did wrong. Just hope the players can be talked round and are up for going again. 

[SW11_Saint]

4 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

There seems to be a lot of heart over head going on with this topic (who'd have guessed football fans could be passionate and irrational, eh!)

As much as I would like to keep him on for his ability, his position is simply untenable given everything that came out of the hearing. 

It's not so much the fact that he was breaking rules. It's more that he wasn't clever enough to do it without getting caught, and that cost the club the chance of promotion. 

There's no way he could possibly survive that in any other industry.

🎯

Not to mention the pressure exerted on junior staff. This is academic anyway, a 12-18 month ban is coming his way I suspect. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

Any idea how long the FA will take? They need to do a thorough investigation but I hope it doesn't drag on (sorry!) for too long. Then we might actually get a proper statement from SR and step off the everlasting merry-go-round of 'what happens if'.

[sadoldgit]

13 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

There seems to be a lot of heart over head going on with this topic (who'd have guessed football fans could be passionate and irrational, eh!)

As much as I would like to keep him on for his ability, his position is simply untenable given everything that came out of the hearing. 

It's not so much the fact that he was breaking rules. It's more that he wasn't clever enough to do it without getting caught, and that cost the club the chance of promotion. 

There's no way he could possibly survive that in any other industry.

It wasn’t him that got caught though. And would any other industry make such a big deal over something so inconsequential? It’s akin to someone in the car park taking pictures through windows of staff members working at their desks.

[saint michael]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It wasn’t him that got caught though. And would any other industry make such a big deal over something so inconsequential? It’s akin to someone in the car park taking pictures through windows of staff members working at their desks.

Is that a disclosure 😂

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It wasn’t him that got caught though. And would any other industry make such a big deal over something so inconsequential? It’s akin to someone in the car park taking pictures through windows of staff members working at their desks.

Not personally, but it was his error sending a young intern to do the dirty work, so he has to take the overall responsibility.

[Midfield_General]

At this point I think two factors decide whether he stays or goes:

1. Does he still have the dressing room

2. Are the FA going to ban him

If the club was going to get rid on ethical grounds, or because there was fury at what he had potentially cost them financially, I think they would have made some noises to that effect by now. Suspended pending FA investigation or whatever. 

As it stands, if the majority of the key players say they'll still play for him, and he comes through the FA investigation unscathed, I think they'll keep him. 

But if either of those factors goes against him, he's gone. 

I don't think 'fan reaction' will play any part in it. And judging by the comments on here and elsewhere, which isn't necessarily representative of the fanbase as a whole but does give a decent flavour, it feels like the tide is turning towards a (slimmish, maybe 65-35) majority wanting to keep him now. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Midfield_General

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

And would any other industry make such a big deal over something so inconsequential?

What £200 million? You’ve been in the public sector too long…

 

It’s pretty irrelevant anyway, he’s going to get a ban. Deciding whether to keep him or not, is like me deciding whether I’ll give it to Sydney Sweeney doggy style or reverse cowgirl. We won’t get the option.

[SW11_Saint]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

It wasn’t him that got caught though. And would any other industry make such a big deal over something so inconsequential? It’s akin to someone in the car park taking pictures through windows of staff members working at their desks.

No it isn’t. You wouldn’t gain anything from taking still pictures of a business meeting. Bugging a meeting would be a better comparison. 

[Saint Marky]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What £200 million? You’ve been in the public sector too long…

 

It’s pretty irrelevant anyway, he’s going to get a ban. Deciding whether to keep him or not, is like me deciding whether I’ll give it to Sydney Sweeney doggy style or reverse cowgirl. We won’t get the option.

I would definitely recommend the reverse cowgirl with her, although she’s getting a bit loose now

[Willo of Whiteley]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

At this point I think two factors decide whether he stays or goes:

1. Does he still have the dressing room

2. Are the FA going to ban him

If the club was going to get rid on ethical grounds, or because there was fury at what he had potentially cost them financially, I think they would have made some noises to that effect by now. Suspended pending FA investigation or whatever. 

As it stands, if the majority of the key players say they'll still play for him, and he comes through the FA investigation unscathed, I think they'll keep him. 

But if either of those factors goes against him, he's gone. 

I don't think 'fan reaction' will play any part in it. And judging by the comments on here and elsewhere, which isn't necessarily representative of the fanbase as a whole but does give a decent flavour, it feels like the tide is turning towards a (slim, maybe 65-35) majority wanting to keep him now. 

Largely agree, I’d be baffled though if he still had the support of the dressing room.

[SW11_Saint]

4 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Edited 8 hours ago by SW11_Saint

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Largely agree, I’d be baffled though if he still had the support of the dressing room.

I wouldn't.

They clearly knew its 'alleged' that we used clips / feedback from our spying in pre-match analysis. 

They, probably much like the rest of the footballing world, probably think the EFL have done us over. 

[saintant]

10 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Largely agree, I’d be baffled though if he still had the support of the dressing room.

Comments made by Daniel Peretz would suggest he has the support of the dressing room.

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s pretty irrelevant anyway, he’s going to get a ban. 

Please promise me, as head of the forum thought police, you've got your "unhinged" and "pony" pelters lined up for those of us that have the temerity to question the FA's decision if they decide to impose a ban? Pretty please?  

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Midfield_General said:

As it stands, if the majority of the key players say they'll still play for him, and he comes through the FA investigation unscathed, I think they'll keep him. 

It's not just the players though. It's everyone else at the club as well. What about all the support staff who will have been left feeling let down by his actions?

What about the analysis team? How are any of them ever going to put their trust in those running the club when he's thrown them under the bus and kept his job? 

A successful club needs everyone pulling in the same direction. Keeping Tonda in post after everything that has come out will most likely have a significant negative impact on overall staff morale, and that is the last thing we need right now.

[Dman]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s pretty irrelevant anyway, he’s going to get a ban. 

Whilst I agree with you, do you not think that if the FA decide to Ban Tonda as well, we've essentially been catastrophicly punished 3 times, for what is generally considered a petty rule... 

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's not just the players though. It's everyone else at the club as well. What about all the support staff who will have been left feeling let down by his actions?

What about the analysis team? How are any of them ever going to put their trust in those running the club when he's thrown them under the bus and kept his job? 

A successful club needs everyone pulling in the same direction. Keeping Tonda in post after everything that has come out will most likely have a significant negative impact on overall staff morale, and that is the last thing we need right now.

A competent owner will obviously take all this into account.... ah... erm.... yep, on reflection, you make a good point....

Edited 8 hours ago by trousers

[saintant]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's not just the players though. It's everyone else at the club as well. What about all the support staff who will have been left feeling let down by his actions?

What about the analysis team? How are any of them ever going to put their trust in those running the club when he's thrown them under the bus and kept his job? 

A successful club needs everyone pulling in the same direction. Keeping Tonda in post after everything that has come out will most likely have a significant negative impact on overall staff morale, and that is the last thing we need right now.

Unfortunately, in the harsh world of professional football support staff and analysts are expendable and easily replaced. A quality manager is viewed entirely differently. If he stays and some support staff and analysts aren't comfortable they are quite free to leave - a shame for them but that's probably how these things pan out.

[Midfield_General]

12 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's not just the players though. It's everyone else at the club as well. What about all the support staff who will have been left feeling let down by his actions?

What about the analysis team? How are any of them ever going to put their trust in those running the club when he's thrown them under the bus and kept his job? 

A successful club needs everyone pulling in the same direction. Keeping Tonda in post after everything that has come out will most likely have a significant negative impact on overall staff morale, and that is the last thing we need right now.

Oh I completely agree with you, but I don't think the club really care about that, or there would have been signs by now. 

A culture has already been exposed where those at the top regularly showed disregard for those below them. 

I think they want to keep him because it's too much of a headache to roll the dice on yet another new manager, and the only things that they would consider worthy of driving a reconsideration of that would be a ban or a player revolt, both of which would essentially force the decision. 

Honesty, I don't think they give a toss about anyone else, especially those further down the food chain like support staff or fans. 

All just IMO of course 

Edited 8 hours ago by Midfield_General

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, saintant said:

Unfortunately, in the harsh world of professional football support staff and analysts are expendable and easily replaced. A quality manager is viewed entirely differently. If he stays and some support staff and analysts aren't comfortable they are quite free to leave - a shame for them but that's probably how these things pan out.

Bring in a team of Germans who aren't grassing little weasels.

[OldNick]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What £200 million? You’ve been in the public sector too long…

 

It’s pretty irrelevant anyway, he’s going to get a ban. Deciding whether to keep him or not, is like me deciding whether I’ll give it to Sydney Sweeney doggy style or reverse cowgirl. We won’t get the option.

I suspect you are only likely to get John Thaw from The Sweeney.😀

[OldNick]

Surely if the players and staff were against him he'd be gone by now.The fans look to be split 50-50 but a well thought out apology, a few players giving their support, us buying a couple of players (Peretz?) and that split will become far more favourable. Nick Illinsworth gave a strong support of Tonda on the Solent pod a week or so ago, Granty also just need a fewmore of themouthpieces come onside and we will unite again.

[Osvaldorama]

I’m enjoying the thought of how angry everyone would be if we keep him. 
 

For that reason I have no voted to keep him, when previously thinking he should go. 
 

Fuck the lot of them 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

A comment this morning on an Ugly Inside article:

”I have just had a conversation with a friend who does security at Staplewood He believes that Echert and Spors have already gone 
Their offices are clear of all personal stuff just company laptops and car keys on the desk”.

Hmmmmm.

 

[saintant]

1 minute ago, Tommy Mulgrew said:

A comment this morning on an Ugly Inside article:

”I have just had a conversation with a friend who does security at Staplewood He believes that Echert and Spors have already gone 
Their offices are clear of all personal stuff just company laptops and car keys on the desk”.

Hmmmmm.

 

A large pinch of salt needed 🙂 Firstly, the guy's friend is not much of a security worker if he is blabbing confidential information. Second, who leaves car keys on a desk? Come on.

[Midfield_General]

1 hour ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Largely agree, I’d be baffled though if he still had the support of the dressing room.

Yeah me too. It's been surprisingly quiet from the players since the day of the expulsion though. If there was total open revolt, you'd think they would have been getting a bit more lairy about it on Insta and whatnot. 

[Midfield_General]

27 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I’m enjoying the thought of how angry everyone would be if we keep him. 
 

For that reason I have no voted to keep him, when previously thinking he should go. 
 

Fuck the lot of them 

I have to say, part of me wants him to stay purely for how much it will annoy Gibson