The Internet.

[Ponty]

Genuine question; Do you think the internet, and the sudden availability of (and demand for) more and more information, has ruined football to some extent?

 

There was a time when we'd all trundle along on a Saturday, meet up with mates, drink beer, cheer the lads, dissect the game and tactics in the pub, grab a curry and go home. We'd then read the Pink, the NOTW/Times back page on Sunday and the daily of choice on a Monday, agreeing and disagreeing with the journalists (who'd clearly gone home at half-time) where applicable. And that was it.

 

Maybe we'd chat about the previous or the upcoming match in the pub during the week but not to the level of dissection we see nowadays.

 

Now, with every aspect of the club under the microscope, things that wouldn't bother us before (which picture is up in what room) are suddenly contentious topics of heavy debate. Step back and think... Seriously, who cares about things like that? Which picture is up in the canteen is not going to affect the quality of the football on the pitch.

 

In the "good old days" we didn't know the team until nigh on kick-off and we certainly didn't have access to the team sheets, the wages of the admin staff and the ins and outs of the shirt contract.

 

Some would say that the internet has opened up the world to scrutiny, and in many ways that scrutiny is good and right, but sometimes I can't help but feel that ignorance really was bliss.

[Saint Martini]

I'd say I agree with that. Even though the curiosity is perfectly understandable it doesn't make the matches more interesting.

 

A similar not can be made about the threads on this forum. I only really enjoy being on the forum and writing when I'm actually talking about football (upcoming matches, post match analysis or individual players) but those threads are only active around matches. The rest of the week its stuff about the board, finances, etc. which I still read but I don't enjoy it as much. I'm not really sure if that makes sense but I hope you get my drift.

[pilsburydoughboy]

I still look back to the good old days with misty eyes and think of when i were a lad but i also remind myself that the older i get the better things were.

The internet is great but only if you have the brain to sort the wheat from the chaff.I really enjoy finding out that a picture has been replace by another the minute it comes down from the wall if only for the fact that a mole in the camp releases certain information to certain people.It must be frustrating for the powers that be at SMS to know that most of their moves will be broadcast over the internet.

[ozzmeister]

To be fair though the things that are discussed on this forum are not discussed down the pub. Im 24 and me and my mates after match will still chat about the simplistics of how did we play, what would we do, what to do next etc etc. We talk of football dreams team, teams of the most hated footballers just general banter.

 

The topics of pictures on walls does not come up in my conversation and I would hope (apart from an internet forum where some degree of topic variety is enjoyed) is the same for most people.

[jawillwill]

Genuine question; Do you think the internet, and the sudden availability of (and demand for) more and more information, has ruined football to some extent?

 

There was a time when we'd all trundle along on a Saturday, meet up with mates, drink beer, cheer the lads, dissect the game and tactics in the pub, grab a curry and go home. We'd then read the Pink, the NOTW/Times back page on Sunday and the daily of choice on a Monday, agreeing and disagreeing with the journalists (who'd clearly gone home at half-time) where applicable. And that was it.

 

Maybe we'd chat about the previous or the upcoming match in the pub during the week but not to the level of dissection we see nowadays.

 

Now, with every aspect of the club under the microscope, things that wouldn't bother us before (which picture is up in what room) are suddenly contentious topics of heavy debate. Step back and think... Seriously, who cares about things like that? Which picture is up in the canteen is not going to affect the quality of the football on the pitch.

 

In the "good old days" we didn't know the team until nigh on kick-off and we certainly didn't have access to the team sheets, the wages of the admin staff and the ins and outs of the shirt contract.

 

Some would say that the internet has opened up the world to scrutiny, and in many ways that scrutiny is good and right, but sometimes I can't help but feel that ignorance really was bliss.

 

Just out of interest, what pictures are up in the canteen? Were any of them Rupert's choice? To be honest, if I were someone like DMG and I saw a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen 5 minutes before KO *I think I would be slightly put off and perhaps not perform quite so well on the pitch. **

 

* I'm am not saying there is definately a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen. Equally I'm not saying there definately isn't.

 

** This leads me to the conclusion, that there is almost certainly a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen

[SaintRobbie]

The internet serves a different purpose to the quality media. It is certainly a medium for sensationaism.

 

But in general I think people still make up their own minds in a similar fashion.

[Micky]

Pros:

 

Can get match updates anywhere in the world with internet access.

 

Instant access to news / sports reports.

 

Can sometimes watch streamed matches live / free.

 

Can debate issues from own home with large forum of people worldwide (the pub scenario is better though..!)

 

Cons:

 

Most forum information is of very dubious reliability and should be treated thus (although 'pub info' is probably much the same). Some is a little distasteful too (see the current MC thread).

 

The fight that you get into at the pub is just as easily found on the internet - maybe even easier.

 

If your opinion goes wide of the concensous of opinion you will probably be instantly labelled.

 

It costs £5 annually for complete freedom of speech here...! (Was only joking with that one Ponty - honest)

[SoccerMom]

Just out of interest, what pictures are up in the canteen? Were any of them Rupert's choice? To be honest, if I were someone like DMG and I saw a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen 5 minutes before KO *I think I would be slightly put off and perhaps not perform quite so well on the pitch. **

 

* I'm am not saying there is definately a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen. Equally I'm not saying there definately isn't.

 

** This leads me to the conclusion, that there is almost certainly a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen

 

Did you do philosophy at uni? What paradox is this?:smt082

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Genuine question; Do you think the internet, and the sudden availability of (and demand for) more and more information, has ruined football to some extent?

 

There was a time when we'd all trundle along on a Saturday, meet up with mates, drink beer, cheer the lads, dissect the game and tactics in the pub, grab a curry and go home. We'd then read the Pink, the NOTW/Times back page on Sunday and the daily of choice on a Monday, agreeing and disagreeing with the journalists (who'd clearly gone home at half-time) where applicable. And that was it.

 

Maybe we'd chat about the previous or the upcoming match in the pub during the week but not to the level of dissection we see nowadays.

 

Now, with every aspect of the club under the microscope, things that wouldn't bother us before (which picture is up in what room) are suddenly contentious topics of heavy debate. Step back and think... Seriously, who cares about things like that? Which picture is up in the canteen is not going to affect the quality of the football on the pitch.

 

In the "good old days" we didn't know the team until nigh on kick-off and we certainly didn't have access to the team sheets, the wages of the admin staff and the ins and outs of the shirt contract.

 

Some would say that the internet has opened up the world to scrutiny, and in many ways that scrutiny is good and right, but sometimes I can't help but feel that ignorance really was bliss.

 

 

You would never have been involved in the French Revolution with that "ignorance is bliss" remark. Some are born to lead and some are born to follow, Ponty.

[pilsburydoughboy]

Just out of interest, what pictures are up in the canteen? Were any of them Rupert's choice? To be honest, if I were someone like DMG and I saw a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen 5 minutes before KO *I think I would be slightly put off and perhaps not perform quite so well on the pitch. **

 

* I'm am not saying there is definately a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen. Equally I'm not saying there definately isn't.

 

** This leads me to the conclusion, that there is almost certainly a nude picture of Rupert in the canteen

 

 

One thing is for sure the farmer would have mounted all the pictures in blue frames.

[Junction 9]

You would never have been involved in the French Revolution with that "ignorance is bliss" remark. Some are born to lead and some are born to follow, Ponty.

 

And the French revolution and the runnings of a football club run hand in hand don't they.

[CB Fry]

You would never have been involved in the French Revolution with that "ignorance is bliss" remark. Some are born to lead and some are born to follow, Ponty.

 

 

I think one of Ponty's points is that this opening up of information and, more significantly, outlets to release, expose, speculate, lie, pontificate and get overexcited about said information is making some people think they are actually part of the French Revolution or something even more important - read the language used, the positions taken, the self puffery, the ridiculous overstatement. (Hello R Chorley).

 

Although, that said, being one of the very people utterly absorbed with, and revelling in, your own (self)importance in the narrative of the travails of the football club we all support, it's no surprise you missed the point and compared protests against the management of a second tier provincial Football Club in a UK collapsing under a credit crunch with the French Revolution .

 

That is what the innnernet has created.

[LGTL]

Yep agree with that. Sometimes on here I have to take a step back and read exaclty what i'm debating about, only to realise in the grand scheme of things it means **** all!

[Ponty]

Thank you CB Fry. A far more elegant retort than I would have composed under the circumstances.

[Fan The Flames]

Its only fulfilling a demand that is there. There isn't the level of detail and scrutiny in other sports because there isn't the demand.

 

People want more than just the matchday and before the internt there was fanzines, supporters club, premium telephone lines. Afterall we are a club and people want to be a part of it just like they would have been when it first started and just like it was intended.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

The Internet like most other Human inventions is a tool that can be used for good or bad purposes , it seems to me this site and others like easily it falls in to the 'Hitchhikers' definition of humanity - mostly harmless .

Look at it this way , debating issues on here is a far more mentally stimulating way to spend an hour rather than just vegetating in front of a TV watching 'Eastenders' or ferking 'Emmerdale Farm' .

[Frank's cousin]

The biggest problem is actually the anonymity - much of what is discussed on here is discussed with mates down the pub, but it with people you know and because its face-to-face you can reda the true meaning in what folk are saying - most of the arguments on here are simply due to enflamed responses to what is in effect flame mail that hits the wrong note - the anonymity contributes because of the Bullsh!t factor - not really knmowing the value or accuracy of the information - and its one heck of a propoganda tool in the right hands.

[70's Mike]

As an old married man the Internet allows be to keep up with developments without finding excuses to go to the Pub.

If i was still 18 or not married I would probably not post on here and find out things through the pub grapevine.

But i am not even sure if Pubs EXIST IN THE FORMAT they did 25 years ago

[sadoldgit]

What it does mean that we are now more likely to bombarded with misinformation. What would take ages to spread by chinese whispers now spreads in seconds. One PR plant for either side can, and do have a field day on sites like these whereas, in the old days, you would have had to put a plant in every pub in Southampton.

 

It is a perfect tool for those with an agenda that they are hell bent on spreading.

 

You would like to think that most people could sort the wheat from the chaff, those with an agenda from those without, but adly all too often anything bit of thord hand old tatt on here often get swallowed as the truth and deabted for days.

 

I used to like going on the old Saints List where there was, for the most part, good natured banter. There were also decent match reports and reports too from the training ground which were always very interesting. Yep, there would be the occasional bit about a chairman, but in the main we talked about football.

 

How much of this site is dedicated to football, the team and training now? We all know that most threads are all about you know who.

 

Having said that, the threads that pull in most views are the ones about the game or aout transfer speculation so it seems that there is a huge silent majority here who log on to read that stuff and don't bother with the ploitics.

 

As with most things in life, it is the people who shout loudest get the most attention. Sadly the people who shout loudest here are the ones with the biggest agendas and many of them are the most negative people on God's earth.

 

Oh for the days of good natured banter....

[chocco boxo]

I think good old banter will return when we have a "good old team", until then it will be same old same.

[sadoldgit]

I think good old banter will return when we have a "good old team", until then it will be same old same.

 

I wish that were true, but given that there are certain people who continue to drag up previous managers names and give them a good slagging I fear the negativity will run for years.

 

It is like a drug for some, they have to come on and get their fix. The negative people here (and we all know who they are) thrive on it and were slagging the club off even when we were fighting for a play off spot. That ain't gong to change with our fortunes on the field sadly.

[Iowsaintsfan]

ive wanted to start a similar thread to this for some time, but more asking the question, Due to the internet / forums do fans give managers and players less time to settle in to the club, due to a few people giving a player a hard time and the rest like sheep, making them unproductive on the field? Molyneux being the latest of them here.

Maybe (with out turning this in to anti lowe thread) Woopert with some extent too?

[trousers]

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

When you think back to the day that we signed Kevin Keegan, nobody had a clue until he was paraded at a press conference - there were not even any rumours. There is simply no way that this could be achieved today.

[JohnnyFartPants]

When you think back to the day that we signed Kevin Keegan, nobody had a clue until he was paraded at a press conference - there were not even any rumours. There is simply no way that this could be achieved today.

 

No point anyway. He is well past his best.

[Thedelldays]

the internetz ruins lives...

 

on that note...im off away to do my job for once

 

catch you all later

 

ta ta

[EastleighSoulBoy]

 

Are you implying that Saints are 'Shafted' and buried?

[Badger]

As others have said the internet opens up the availability to gather info from the world of Saints and about it from anywhere a connection is available.The downside is the obsession with the minutae and often irrelevant or totally unfounded rumour/speculation.This can often gather a momentum and head of steam out of all proportion, ie pictures/chair colours in the boardroom generate 200+ posts.

 

I remember the childhood days how the early morning would be spent scouring the newspaper(s) for any snippet about Saints.When spending time with relatives in Southampton,I would eagerly await the Echo to drop through the door.The only other news in the intervening period might be sportsnews on Radio 2,no 5live in those days with regular updates.

 

I've often wondered about the following:

 

When you think back to the day that we signed Kevin Keegan, nobody had a clue until he was paraded at a press conference - there were not even any rumours. There is simply no way that this could be achieved today.

 

As you say,nowadays someone would receive a text from Hamburg saying KK's wife had told her hairdresser that they were looking at properties near Southampton blah,blah.

 

Also I've wondered how the internet might have affected other events at Saints :

 

Branfoot's spell at Saints;would the campaign have been even more intense ?

Would Chris Nicholl have survived the Mark Dennis episode ?

How long would Larie have remained after relegation,and our poor start to life in Division Two 1974-5 ?

[influx]

Genuine question; Do you think the internet, and the sudden availability of (and demand for) more and more information, has ruined football to some extent?

 

There was a time when we'd all trundle along on a Saturday, meet up with mates, drink beer, cheer the lads, dissect the game and tactics in the pub, grab a curry and go home. We'd then read the Pink, the NOTW/Times back page on Sunday and the daily of choice on a Monday, agreeing and disagreeing with the journalists (who'd clearly gone home at half-time) where applicable. And that was it.

 

.

 

Most people still do just that!

[saint1977]

Thought provoking post by Ponty. Certainly, there is an element of truth in what he has posted - the internet is well-used by the media and I find some of the coverage of football in the 24 hour media age a bit swamping - quantity over quality. All clubs, but particularly ours, do also seem to take a keen interest in what is said on these type of sites. The anonymity does also give extra licence for the different warring parties to promote their point of view and I'm sure we could all cite plenty of examples.

 

However, the internet is not alone in this change:

 

- Phone-ins like 606 in the 1990s when it was at it's peak really caught on and increased the "fan perspective". It was inevitable that many of the comments on air would not be positive and would rile clubs and the FA with regard to England. David Mellor was the scourge of many boardrooms across England.

- Sky - quite simply, Sky have invested hugely and will maximise the bang for their bucks. Live games are now proflierated whereas many of us will remember that they used to be a rarer treat and in part of 1985/6 we didn't have any at all! The scope for supporter interaction via texts and phone-ins etc is increased plus demonstrations at the ground. I'm sure we all remember the protests live on air in 1993/4.

- Football is trendier and a way for public figures to engage the electorate - Blair and Brown were keen to point out their interest, Iain Duncan Smith at Spurs etc. I know some public figures were genuine fans but with the decline in violence (thankfully), football became more acceptable to be involved in

- Following on from Sky, the money. The sums now are unthinkable compared to when most of us started watching and it is bound to attract some less savoury people who are quite happy to use modern media as a way to stir trouble and rumour. I include players' agents in this as well.

[Secret Site Agent]

We live in an information age.

 

Once the information was controlled by the club, press, government etc. but now anyone with a story to tell or an axe to grind can release information and by-pass the old route of information flow.

 

The internet is the best and the worst thing to hit information exchange since the invention of the printing press.

 

What we have to do, as suggested, is that we filter this information and make sure we can corroborate it. Never take it at face value without evaluating it yourself. Which gives me nothing but a headache, I don't know about you.

 

But I am happy it is here, as it has broken the control of info from those above.

[Arizona]

Without the internet people such as myself who have never lived within 80 miles of Southampton, wouldn't be able to discuss Saints matters at all. Other than family members, who I live nowhere near either, I don't know any Saints fans that I haven't met via this forum.

[Toadhall Saint]

Problem with the Internet is that it gives a voice to people who think they know things but in truth know jack **** (especially on internet forums). Yes i log on here to get up to speed as it were but when i think about it what genuine information to i get up to speed on? Doom and gloom in the main and a whole lot of vitriol about........ Players/managers/board members/chairmen.I'd have the old days back tomorrow - blissfull ignorance is a beautiful thing sometimes.

[david in sweden]

I'd agree with that, and somewhere along the line the " media" seemed to have given themselves the right to know (and write) about anything and everything concerning the club, players, directors, the tea lady's personal life and plans for the future......and what they can't confirm by traditional methods.... they make up!

 

I'm not for in favour of supressing all comment and rumour, but it has gone a bit too far.

[SaintRobbie]

As an old married man the Internet allows be to keep up with developments without finding excuses to go to the Pub.

If i was still 18 or not married I would probably not post on here and find out things through the pub grapevine.

But i am not even sure if Pubs EXIST IN THE FORMAT they did 25 years ago

 

You can get the internet in the pub now though!

[Kadeem Hardison]

You would never have been involved in the French Revolution with that "ignorance is bliss" remark. Some are born to lead and some are born to follow, Ponty.

 

This comment just goes to show that any old idiot can write a book. Equating Saints with the French Revolution is the act of a mentalist.

 

I look forward to Lowe/Robespierre and 'Reign of Terror' allusions within the week...

[stthrobber]

I don't think the Internet has ruined football, Sky money has done that.

 

The associated media has blown football up into something far more important than it is, and the Internet just serves to assist with that.

 

What I would say is that the anonymity afforded by email lists and message boards has allowed the culture of the cyber warrior to grow, where people who have never met bait each other, sometimes quite viciously over a football club.

[Deppo]

This board is certainly a bit insane at times.

[teamsaint]

What has ruined football is the abolition of second/third /fourth replays at random neutral venues.(and on odd days of the week).

 

I wonder if a single poster on this board was at the second replay against Chester at the hawthorns in 1972.

 

Those replays were great fun, all abolished in the so called modern age.

[Deppo]

This hasn't really ruined football though, has it?

[Lets B Avenue]

What has ruined football is the abolition of second/third /fourth replays at random neutral venues.(and on odd days of the week).

 

I wonder if a single poster on this board was at the second replay against Chester at the hawthorns in 1972.

 

Those replays were great fun, all abolished in the so called modern age.

 

Yes, in the league cup and I was also at the Grimsby FA Cup 2nd replay v Grimsby in Filbert Street in 78.

 

On The Big Match Revisited the other week they showed Sheff Wed v Arsenal in 79. That one went to 5 matches, whilst we were waiting for the pitch at Preston to thaw out.