Toby

I'm not sure if he will have felt so strongly about not joining us to instruct Madrid not to respond to us? According to us, he was more than happy to join.

Maybe that was BS, maybe his head was turned by Tottenham, maybe he was tapped up by Vertonghen

Money talks..

Saints being made to look like mugs 2 years running now!

Yep. Uncle Les is full of sh*t.

Journo's on twitter saying Saints messed this up. Hard to substantiate but it feels like we dropped the ball here.

How can anyone get upset by Morgan leaving we all know he is gone? As long as we get good money to get a replacement or two can't see the issue.

Oh don't worry, people will get upset...

The most frustrating thing though was, that in relative terms, he was no money for such a fantastic player. We should have just offered the market price and got on with things without letting other parties a chance to get involved. Still, without knowing the real ins and outs it's all supposition I guess. Onwards.

Spurs have plenty of centre halves now. Obviously Vertoghen and Tobi will be their starters, they only signed Wimmer, and Dier looks set for a bright future; however the rest of them are likely up for grabs at the right price.

Maybe we should look there for Tobi's replacement.

Kaboul is finished and Fazio is a bit too slow for the EPL but Chriches looked a player when he first signed just had a couple of injuries, I wouldn't say no at the right price.

what are they saying?

That we didn't play it right, that we dallied, and that we created a situation that allowed Spurs to get the player.

Of course, that could just be speculation and easy for them to say after the event. But it felt really easy for Spurs to get this deal done. Too easy.

Alderweireld Toby

Verified account

‏

@

AlderweireldTob

Very excited to join @SpursOfficial. Looking fwd to this but also looking back @ a great @SouthamptonFCseason. Great club & fans! Thanks!

"Thanks for putting me in the shop window guys, bye!"

Blame ding ding blame ding ding blame ding ding blame ding ding. Time to move on folks.

The way I see it is that Madrid have been the ones causing all the problems in this case -

 

Madrid however - perhaps not having the money needed to pay us - seemingly already started negotiations with Spurs and only paid us the 1.5m once a deal had been agreed.

 

Madrid and Spurs push ahead with the deal anyway and we are forced to make the legal threat to hold it up.

 

we put in an improved bid - the thought being we want the player more than any compensation we would have got from Madrid after the legal stuff was resolved.

 

The stupid thing being that with our improved offer Madrid would have got more money and so it is a case of them cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

Welcome to the forum.

I don't buy it for a second.

Firstly are you seriously saying AM could not afford £1.5m?

And then saying if we offered them £15m they would reject it? How can they not have the money and then reject a big money offer for a player who they want to sell? Seems a bit contradictory no?

Thirdly if someone threatens you with legal action I doubt it will endear you to them will it? You are less likely to want to deal with someone like that.

I have no idea what happened but what I do know is nobody seems to have answered the question I asked yesterday. Why did we leave it until the last minute to buy the player when we had an agreement to buy him? If a deadline had passed which results in us getting compensation why didn't we buy him before that as was our right to?

Blame ding ding blame ding ding blame ding ding blame ding ding. Time to move on folks.

What happened to your "it hasnt even happened yet" mantra ?

How about you come on here, just for once, and write something that isnt sneering about other peoples opinions and feelings ?

The most frustrating thing though was, that in relative terms, he was no money for such a fantastic player. We should have just offered the market price and got on with things without letting other parties a chance to get involved. Still, without knowing the real ins and outs it's all supposition I guess. Onwards.

Quite. I know it's fashionable to slam the "bed wetters" but the most likely looking explanation is a massive **** up by us.

We would already have agreed terms with him last year. Something has gone on with us and Madrid which has screwed this up.

Why did we leave it until the last minute to buy the player when we had an agreement to buy him? If a deadline had passed which results in us getting compensation why didn't we buy him before that as was our right to?

This

I think the worst thing of all of this really is the fact it is Spurs. He's a top, top class defender; at least he was with us last year, and could have done much better than Spurs. I really don't understand their appeal other than £££. Their set-up is pretty poor in comparison to Saints and the whole club just feels a bit superficial and "tin-pot". This is obviously reactionary, but a player of his quality last season should be playing CL, not Europa. It's a massive loss. I don't blame the board at all, unlike some knee-jerk reactions; I think if you read between the lines of what RK said in his press conferences it is obvious that AM simply did not want to deal with Saints (presumably because of the contract and low fee - cheaper to take legal action and pay compensation). I'm certain Toby wanted to stay at Saints at the end of the season but AM just wanted to flog him to the highest bidder (minus Saints). If people have to blame someone - blame AM. You really think the board were sitting on their thumbs waiting for Atletico to accept the 6.8m or however much the original loan contract specified? It seems to me that they pulled all the stops to get TA and AM were the ones to halt it. So be it. That's football politics. As a club, we will move forward and pursue other targets which we undoubtedly already are in talks with / are monitoring / going to talk to. The lack of faith on here is unbelievable with some.

How about I come on here, just for once, and write something that isnt sneering about other peoples opinions and feelings ?

Edited.

Are we going to keep losing three of our top players a year? It's going to be incredibly hard to keep being successful if that is the case. Mane, Wanyama and Jay rod to leave next year?

Yep. Uncle Les is full of sh*t.

The irony of this post is truly staggering!

That's the only thing which really makes any sense in terms of how we seem to have been completely sidelined by Atletico.

Well perhaps they didn't overly appreciate all the rumours about "legal action" and shares of the profit eh.

We appeared knobbish so they may well have given us a bit of tit for tat. If we wanted the player it was simple, ask for the price and pay it. Just as we seem to expect every other club to do for one of our players. Nemesis at her very best.

I'm a childish tw*t.

Edited.

Les dropped the ball. Complacency methinks, was he concentrating elsewhere.

The most frustrating thing though was, that in relative terms, he was no money for such a fantastic player. We should have just offered the market price and got on with things without letting other parties a chance to get involved. Still, without knowing the real ins and outs it's all supposition I guess. Onwards.

This........11.5 is an absolute steal for a player of his ability, we must have known AM are strapped for cash. Thinking we are morally and legally right has cost us big time. There are no morals in football at this level. And please let's not give it the "good luck Toby and thanks" bull cos he talked out his backside too, "I don't see this as my last home game at St Mary's.." Blah blah blah

The thing about this which doesn't make sense is why Atletico only seemed willing to do a deal with Spurs? If we were able to pay what was acceptable, and with a relationship already there due to the loan and option to buy agreement, why does it look like we didn't get a sniff and why would that be in their interest?

Probable / possible explanation here: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?53653-Toby&p=2211332#post2211332

Wasn't planning on using my first post on this saga of a thread, but not sure so much of the criticism of the club is justified. The way I see it is that Madrid have been the ones causing all the problems in this case - had they simply paid us the 1.5m buy out clause at the start then it should have gone to an open market and Saints and Spurs could have bid whatever they wanted for the player.

 

An example of how things may have unfolded...

 

I would have thought we would have let Madrid know relatively early on that we wanted Toby for the original amount of 6.8m. At that point Madrid would have said they would activate their buy back clause and we would have to wait for payment until we put in an improved offer *****il we were paid, the original agreement would still be in effect so why pay more?).

 

Madrid however - perhaps not having the money needed to pay us - seemingly already started negotiations with Spurs and only paid us the 1.5m once a deal had been agreed (at least in principal). By this point though the deadline had passed and so we would believe that legally, the original agreement of 6.8m should stand.

 

Madrid and Spurs push ahead with the deal anyway and we are forced to make the legal threat to hold it up. The problem comes when Madrid say the end of the loan period signified the end of the original agreement for us to pay 6.8m. The problem here is that if that is the case we would have had no chance to put in an improved bid before the end of this period as we had not been paid the buy back clause by Madrid (and until this happened we would believe the original agreement was still in effect) and after this date a deal with Spurs had already been made.

 

Once it became clear that the Spurs deal was going to go through regardless of any legal wranglings with Madrid we put in an improved bid - the thought being we want the player more than any compensation we would have got from Madrid after the legal stuff was resolved.

 

With the Spurs deal too far along we will miss out on the player and will have to make do with some form of compensation. The stupid thing being that with our improved offer Madrid would have got more money and so it is a case of them cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

In terms of Toby's personal preference, I honestly believe he was happy to go to either club as long as he gets to play (that is why he left Madrid in the first place after all).

 

Mostly conjecture on my part but really it seems that we were well within our rights to believe the original deal would be in place until we were paid the release clause and Madrid deliberately witheld this payment until a deal with Spurs was already made preventing us from putting in an improved bid until it was too late.

 

Just my opinion from what i've heard so far.

Are we going to keep losing three of our top players a year? It's going to be incredibly hard to keep being successful if that is the case. Mane, Wanyama and Jay rod to leave next year?

That bearded yeti Samuel wrote in the DM last year that Saints had pulled off a major trick last summer, but if they tried it again they would likely get their fingers burned and flirt with relegation.

Time will tell...

god luck toby enjoyed watching you play for saints,guys time to move on,did think we had a chance but the pull of living in a big city like london was a big factor i expect.

Are we going to keep losing three of our top players a year? It's going to be incredibly hard to keep being successful if that is the case. Mane, Wanyama and Jay rod to leave next year?

What do you suggest the club do about it? It's just the way things work in football.

Well perhaps they didn't overly appreciate all the rumours about "legal action" and shares of the profit eh.

We appeared knobbish so they may well have given us a bit of tit for tat. If we wanted the player it was simple, ask for the price and pay it.

But that all seem to come about once Saints knew of the Spurs negotiations. What was going on between the end of the season and this weekend? We should have been talking about the 1.5M long before surely?

Are we going to keep losing three of our top players a year? It's going to be incredibly hard to keep being successful if that is the case. Mane, Wanyama and Jay rod to leave next year?

As long as we keep playing reasonably well then of course we will that's how world football works

F*ck off Toby

F*ck off A.Madrid

And mainly, f*ck off Tottenham. Can't they ever come up with anything on their own? Masters of copying what they see elsewhere, and not quite making it work. Hope his hamstring goes on the first day of the season.

i echo this gladly. although to be fair, kane, mason, bentaleb etc.? Not bad spurs grown players

What happened to your "it hasnt even happened yet" mantra ?

 

How about you come on here, just for once, and write something that isnt sneering about other peoples opinions and feelings ?

Because at that point it hadn't happened Alpine.

How about for once you come on here and say something positive about the people who run club? By the way, we signed a new player yesterday. What did you call him? A pub player. Nice.

I think that maybe we did miss a chance to snaffle him but once Spurs were interested we didn't have a chance. Not because we are a tin pot club or they are top six or any other reason. I feel it is simply the fact that he can strike up a CB partnership with his Belgian team mate for both club and country.

As long as we keep playing reasonably well then of course we will that's how world football works

No it isn't. That doesn't happen to any other team every season. Saying that's how football works is a cop out. Are Swansea losing arguably their best three players every season?

But that all seem to come about once Saints knew of the Spurs negotiations. What was going on between the end of the season and this weekend? We should have been talking about the 1.5M long before surely?

Maybe we were, maybe we weren't. It's impossible to say as the facts aren't out there, it's just assumption and speculation.

The only nailed on fact we have is that Toby has signed for Spurs. How that happened and why that happened is up for debate, but I doubt we'll ever know the full ins and outs - maybe certain media outlets will try and spin it certain ways. It's pointless letting this drag, let's just focus on who will replace him now. I think we'll get ourselves a top quality CB.

That bearded yeti Samuel wrote in the DM last year that Saints had pulled off a major trick last summer, but if they tried it again they would likely get their fingers burned and flirt with relegation.

 

Time will tell...

you don't hang about, do you? I suspect you'll gets dogs abuse for raising that, but should Morgan AND Wanyama join Toby and Clyne (plus Forster injury) then we probably will have to pull some more rabbits out of hats. Hopefully we won't have to.

Because at that point it hadn't happened Alpine.

How about for once you come on here and say something positive about the people who run club? By the way, we signed a new player yesterday. What did you call him? A pub player. Nice.

When they do something positive, I will. And have in the past.

They promised last summer wouldnt happen again. It is repeating itself.

They deluded themselves over Toby - look what has happened.

Martina is not EPL standard according to several comments atributed to Dutch posters on the web. Deal with it.

F***s sake!

Quite. I know it's fashionable to slam the "bed wetters" but the most likely looking explanation is a massive **** up by us.

 

We would already have agreed terms with him last year. Something has gone on with us and Madrid which has screwed this up.

What has happened is that he wanted to go to Spurs when he heard they were in for him. What are we supposed to do about that?

Massive cock up on our part it appears

We need to stop letting our top players (loans or signings) join rivals ffs

 

I'm confident we will find our replacement though. The board are doing a lot right but cant help but feel Les needs to take a step back from negotiations and employee someone who knows their stuff.

We now need two big signing replacements (to put in the shop window)

Key point is that he isn't and was never our player.

Lets be real here - regardless of the legal battles, it would have been Koeman and Paul Mitchell who identified Toby this time last year, as soon as Mitchell went to Spurs he would have had a chat with Poch & Levy saying he is only on loan at Saints lets get him here next season.

As much as it pains me to say this, once Spurs showed their interest there was only going to be one outcome here - they are begrudgingly a bigger club and it is London, we just can't compete with that. Everyone is feeling deflated because we were given a false sense of hope that he was going to end up here, if this had never been the case and he just left at the end of the season and then joined Spurs we would just be thinking good luck to him and lets move on, we march on blah blah.

Lets move on and not argue on here forever about what went wrong or whatever, life is too short. If you're feeling low just remember that Spurs paid £26,000,000 for 'Goaldado' 7 in 51 - £3,714,285 per league goal.

Anyway, we have a space at CB, Ivan Campo anyone?

No it isn't. That doesn't happen to any other team every season. Saying that's how football works is a cop out. Are Swansea losing arguably their best three players every season?

Ok how would you handled Clyne this season when he wouldn't sign a new contract? what would you have done about Lovern last summer? Lets here how you'd run a football club.

Probable / possible explanation here: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?53653-Toby&p=2211332#post2211332

Surely Madrid not having funds to fulfill obligations to us will have only strengthened our ability to negotiate a good deal with them? If it looked like we would hold firm on only paying the 6.8M until we recieved the 1.5M which they possibly didn't have and there was no flexibility there then yes, you can see how the Spurs thing unfolded.

Maybe we were, maybe we weren't. It's impossible to say as the facts aren't out there, it's just assumption and speculation.

 

The only nailed on fact we have is that Toby has signed for Spurs. How that happened and why that happened is up for debate, but I doubt we'll ever know the full ins and outs - maybe certain media outlets will try and spin it certain ways. It's pointless letting this drag, let's just focus on who will replace him now. I think we'll get ourselves a top quality CB.

Lets hope he is, because on the face of it we could have had one for £10m

Will be interesting to see how our defence gets on now. We will likely be starting the season with just Fonte at the back and without Morgan in dm.

Surely Madrid not having funds to fulfill obligations to us will have only strengthened our ability to negotiate a good deal with them? If it looked like we would hold firm on only paying the 6.8M until we recieved the 1.5M which they possibly didn't have and there was no flexibility there then yes, you can see how the Spurs thing unfolded.

But then what about all this legal action stuff? Was it press fabrication or did we think we had a legal right to something we had no legal right for?

What do you suggest the club do about it? It's just the way things work in football.

I am not sure I buy this 'AM could not afford the £1.5m to activate their release clause' - if it meant they sold the player for twice as much as the £6.8m then I would lend them the money myself at the right price.

It is bad news for the club but I just hope that RK was well briefed on what was going on because it sounded like he expected him to sign.

What has happened is that he wanted to go to Spurs when he heard they were in for him. What are we supposed to do about that?

I thought he had been quoted or it was implied he was happy to go to either club. Where did he say he wanted to go to Spurs ahead of Saints? (I'm not saying he didn't I just haven't heard this before)

I wonder what effect losing out on Toby will have on Wanyama. There were strong noises about him wanting to join Arsenal in the press and if Morgan leaves I wonder if he will angle for a move on the basis that we are once again not retaining out top talent. Never dull at Saints is it.

I think that maybe we did miss a chance to snaffle him but once Spurs were interested we didn't have a chance. .

But it would appear we didn't have a bid even accepted for him. I don't know if we even got to the stage where you can speak to Toby.

I think the whole "legal action" thing ****ed them off and they chose not to deal with us. If a club did that to us I doubt we would want to do business with them either.

What will be interesting though is to see if the club follow through on that threat or let it go. Personally I would just let it go. He is their player now, we ****ed up by waiting so long.

Adam Blackmore ‏@bigadamsport

Ultimately it came down to Alderweireld choosing Spurs over #saintsfc - unclear yet as to whether Saints will pursue compensation