View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

Voters
161. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    36 22.36%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    8 4.97%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.24%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    89 55.28%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    6 3.73%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    3 1.86%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 2.48%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    3 1.86%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    10 6.21%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #12301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    This was not a in/out referendum
    what about tribal votes? what about those who voted leave but vote green in every other elections because of their stance on environmental issues?
    why are the tory/labour votes discounted in these magic comparisons? Both are (officially) for leaving.
    What if those who voted Libdem simply didn't know what they were voting for?

    does not take into account that although it was an improved, it was a low turnout.

    whoever wins the Peterborough election in a couple of weeks will spin this just the same. and round we go again!
    Are you getting your Union Jack knickers in a twist because you realise that Remain could well win another public vote?
    If you Brexiters are so sure of your position you should have nothing to fear, surely?
    Shame about Tommy by the way.

  2. #12302

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    ‘Nobody wants no deal’

  3. #12303

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    There have been a lot of Remoaner sore losers on here this morning, trying to put a brave face on it. It's all very amusing following the reasoning that attempts to turn a massive defeat for the two main parties into some sort of victory for remain.

  4. #12304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    There have been a lot of Remoaner sore losers on here this morning, trying to put a brave face on it. It's all very amusing following the reasoning that attempts to turn a massive defeat for the two main parties into some sort of victory for remain.
    I don’t think the results have proven anything other than voters are moving to the polarised ends of the spectrum. Hard Brexit have made massive gains, as have hard remain Lib/Green/SNP.

    It’s the squashy, middle ground, trying to please everyone parties who have lost out.

  5. #12305

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    There have been a lot of Remoaner sore losers on here this morning, trying to put a brave face on it. It's all very amusing following the reasoning that attempts to turn a massive defeat for the two main parties into some sort of victory for remain.
    Les, I read your last sentence over and over but still couldn’t make head or tail of it.

    So staunch remain parties outnumbered staunch Brexit ones, though the margins were ultimately small. More significant, a larger number rejected a no-deal WTO Brexit. As I say please please and pretty please, vote for a hardliner in the upcoming leadership election - it’s quite amusing watch you dig your own grave while the rest of us barely have to move a muscle
    Last edited by shurlock; 27-05-2019 at 12:49 PM.

  6. #12306

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    “Hard remain” There’s only one type of remain. Have you added the ‘hard’ to compete with hard brexit?

  7. #12307

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I don’t think the results have proven anything other than voters are moving to the polarised ends of the spectrum. Hard Brexit have made massive gains, as have hard remain Lib/Green/SNP.

    It’s the squashy, middle ground, trying to please everyone parties who have lost out.
    Or the parties that are charged with the complex task of governing the country and understand that compromise is the only way out of this mess. Its pretty easy to be an insurgent party and shout from the sidelines and not have to take responsibility for your actions.

  8. #12308

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    Swivel-eyed. Quite literally.


  9. #12309

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedArmy View Post
    “Hard remain” There’s only one type of remain. Have you added the ‘hard’ to compete with hard brexit?
    I’ll rephrase, the remain voters who would usually vote Lab/Con but instead have backed the Libs and their ‘******** to Brexit.’

    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Or the parties that are charged with the complex task of governing the country and understand that compromise is the only way out of this mess. Its pretty easy to be an insurgent party and shout from the sidelines and not have to take responsibility for your actions.
    True but the fact that they’ve failed to do so and couldn’t come up with anything in the negotiation has simply pushed voters away.

    You only have to look at Trump to see how far brash promises can get you with voters.

  10. #12310

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Tender View Post
    There have been a lot of Remoaner sore losers on here this morning, trying to put a brave face on it. It's all very amusing following the reasoning that attempts to turn a massive defeat for the two main parties into some sort of victory for remain.
    Other than their eponymous title, what exactly are the Brexit party's policies ?

  11. Default

    Hmmm.

    Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk

  12. #12312

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    Hmmm.

    Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk
    Where's the methodology for this?

    I've heard others absolutely tearing this analysis to shreds on the radio - saying the leave-remain splits for each party are based on past and thus outdated voting data produced under very different political and economic conditions, so cannot be be extrapolated from. Thus, the lib dems have become far more radical in their support for remaining in the EU in the past three years and their voting base has shifted accordingly. This is especially the case in a one-off contest like the 2019 EU elections which Farage has called a pseudo-referendum. So the idea that roughly a third of their vote in the EU elections was made up of leave votes is for the birds.

    If you have the methodology, would be interested in seeing it.
    Last edited by shurlock; 27-05-2019 at 02:07 PM.

  13. #12313

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    I like that 5% of UKIP supposedly want to remain.

  14. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedArmy View Post
    “Hard remain” There’s only one type of remain. Have you added the ‘hard’ to compete with hard brexit?
    Have you got voices in your head? Or are you just an incoherent simpleton?

  15. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Swivel-eyed. Quite literally.

    Phwooooarrr

  16. #12316

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadoldgit View Post
    Are you getting your Union Jack knickers in a twist because you realise that Remain could well win another public vote?
    If you Brexiters are so sure of your position you should have nothing to fear, surely?
    Shame about Tommy by the way.
    I don't fear anything, if there is another vote, so be it.
    not that I believe there will or should there be, it will solve anything.

    Genuine question, with these weird comparisons, any provision made for the 2m EU citizens who voted who (probably) can't vote in a General Election and any second vote?

  17. #12317

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    I like that 5% of UKIP supposedly want to remain.
    Not really related to last night - but in general if you analyse what people believe in and what parties stand for, around 40% of people vote for the wrong party.

  18. #12318

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Swivel-eyed. Quite literally.

    I say that interview live last night. She's definitely on that slope that leads to hoarding your used incontinence pads.

  19. Default

    9.49m votes for parties against either no-deal, or against Brexit altogether.

    5.9m votes for parties supporting no deal.

    Will of the people etc.

  20. #12320

  21. #12321

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    I thought the results made a very good case for not having a second referendum. It was clear that we have to extreme and irreconcilable views - anyone who wanted a second ref gave their vote to liberals/greens/change Uk / Plaid, or SNP. Yet that vote share was about equal to the no deal brexit vote.

    In the middle you've got the remaining tory and labour voters who just want this whole thing dealt with so we can move on and govern the rest of the country.

    Labour are in serious trouble, they can't afford to go for a second referendum because they will be annihilated up north as a result, and equally, it will not now distinguish them from the liberals or greens. Round of a applause to Jezza there.

    God knows what will happen to the tories.

    And if we have a second referendum, then scotland has a second referendum and leaves... at which point, the vast majority of the england and wales supports either brexit or no deal brexit.

    Also very clear that failure to deliver brexit (or go back on it altogether) puts farage in No.10 with a massive majority.

    A right fine mess. Best deliver a brexit deal and move on whilst their is still a parliamentary term that can be used for other things....!!

  22. #12322

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    Let's just suppose there is another referendum and remain wins. No one seriously thinks that will just be the end of the matter and we can move on do they?

  23. #12323

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    Let's just suppose there is another referendum and remain wins. No one seriously thinks that will just be the end of the matter and we can move on do they?
    Unless its a decisive winning margin. Which is unlikely. Compromise is the only way out of this mess. The media stoking up the fence-sitting narrative of the two main parties doesn't help.

  24. #12324

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post

    And if we have a second referendum, then scotland has a second referendum
    How does that automatically follow ? Are you assuming that a 2nd Brexit vote would reinforce the result of the first one ?

  25. #12325

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    I thought the results made a very good case for not having a second referendum. It was clear that we have to extreme and irreconcilable views - anyone who wanted a second ref gave their vote to liberals/greens/change Uk / Plaid, or SNP. Yet that vote share was about equal to the no deal brexit vote.

    In the middle you've got the remaining tory and labour voters who just want this whole thing dealt with so we can move on and govern the rest of the country.

    Labour are in serious trouble, they can't afford to go for a second referendum because they will be annihilated up north as a result, and equally, it will not now distinguish them from the liberals or greens. Round of a applause to Jezza there.

    God knows what will happen to the tories.

    And if we have a second referendum, then scotland has a second referendum and leaves... at which point, the vast majority of the england and wales supports either brexit or no deal brexit.

    Also very clear that failure to deliver brexit (or go back on it altogether) puts farage in No.10 with a massive majority.

    A right fine mess. Best deliver a brexit deal and move on whilst their is still a parliamentary term that can be used for other things....!!
    Farage in No.10? Trying to outdo Guided Missile in batsh*t mental predictions?

  26. #12326

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    Also very clear that failure to deliver brexit (or go back on it altogether) puts farage in No.10 with a massive majority.
    Not a chance. In a GE most of his support will return to supporting their appropriate be-ribboned donkey.

  27. #12327

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint86 View Post
    I thought the results made a very good case for not having a second referendum. It was clear that we have to extreme and irreconcilable views - anyone who wanted a second ref gave their vote to liberals/greens/change Uk / Plaid, or SNP. Yet that vote share was about equal to the no deal brexit vote.

    In the middle you've got the remaining tory and labour voters who just want this whole thing dealt with so we can move on and govern the rest of the country.

    Labour are in serious trouble, they can't afford to go for a second referendum because they will be annihilated up north as a result, and equally, it will not now distinguish them from the liberals or greens. Round of a applause to Jezza there.

    God knows what will happen to the tories.

    And if we have a second referendum, then scotland has a second referendum and leaves... at which point, the vast majority of the england and wales supports either brexit or no deal brexit.

    Also very clear that failure to deliver brexit (or go back on it altogether) puts farage in No.10 with a massive majority.

    A right fine mess. Best deliver a brexit deal and move on whilst their is still a parliamentary term that can be used for other things....!!
    Farage in number 10? Not a ****ing chance mate.

    Voting to leave the EU cos you're a bit racist is very different to voting for someone like that in a GE.

  28. #12328

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Unless its a decisive winning margin. Which is unlikely. Compromise is the only way out of this mess. The media stoking up the fence-sitting narrative of the two main parties doesn't help.
    Even if it was a decisive margin, it is going to be massively less people than the original vote so it won't be accepted by loads of people. I'm not sure how anyone can successfully compromise in a way that doesn't make both sides hate whatever they come up with- as May has shown.

  29. #12329

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    I would recommend that somebody goes to Brussels discreetly and does what Cameron could not achieve and negotiate more relaxed clauses on freedom of movement. The leave vote will provide the added leverage needed. With these won you could justify going to a second referendum because the circumstances have changed. That should give a 45-55 vote in favour of remain.

  30. #12330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Gotsmanov View Post
    I would recommend that somebody goes to Brussels discreetly and does what Cameron could not achieve and negotiate more relaxed clauses on freedom of movement. The leave vote will provide the added leverage needed. With these won you could justify going to a second referendum because the circumstances have changed. That should give a 45-55 vote in favour of remain.
    More nonsense. The Eu has been clear from the start you can’t cut out one of the freedoms and expect the rest of the freedoms.

  31. #12331

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    More nonsense. The Eu has been clear from the start you can’t cut out one of the freedoms and expect the rest of the freedoms.
    I would expect them to be more flexible than you would expect.

  32. #12332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baird of the land View Post
    Lib dems, green, snp, change & plaid were all strongly anti brexit and they outstripped the combined Ukip/brexit party share of the vote.
    Hook, line and sinker.

    The one thing that last night showed us was that nothing has changed. Any new referendum would be a knife edge.

  33. #12333

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Gotsmanov View Post
    I would expect them to be more flexible than you would expect.
    I'm amazed there are still people suffering under this delusion after three years. There is no unicorn pick and mix option. Member, associate via EFTA / EEA or Free trade agreement. Thems the choices.

  34. #12334

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    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    I'm amazed there are still people suffering under this delusion after three years. There is no unicorn pick and mix option. Member, associate via EFTA / EEA or Free trade agreement. Thems the choices.
    Cameron clearly believed that they would be flexible, that would have been based on something. When it came down to it, he was undone by political posturing and arrogance from the EU. Now that we have voted to leave and the EU project has been undermined I believe that they would be more willing to consider a relaxed version of freedom of movement that they can still argue does not compromise their principles. I may of course be wrong but it would swing any new referendum and put the whole Brexit episode behind them. Would that be a price they would be willing to pay.

  35. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buctootim View Post
    I'm amazed there are still people suffering under this delusion after three years. There is no unicorn pick and mix option. Member, associate via EFTA / EEA or Free trade agreement. Thems the choices.
    This is where I expected to end up three years ago but we've allowed the EU to set the agenda in that time by progressing through the divorce arrangements etc. But not sure the EFTA/EEA would resolve the Irish border issue so it could be some years coming to this agreement.

  36. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Gotsmanov View Post
    Cameron clearly believed that they would be flexible, that would have been based on something. When it came down to it, he was undone by political posturing and arrogance from the EU. Now that we have voted to leave and the EU project has been undermined I believe that they would be more willing to consider a relaxed version of freedom of movement that they can still argue does not compromise their principles. I may of course be wrong but it would swing any new referendum and put the whole Brexit episode behind them. Would that be a price they would be willing to pay.
    Cameron believed they would cave if he threatened a referendum and potentially leaving.They didn't blink.

    Fox and Boris thought they would cave because of German Car Manufacturers and they need us more than we need them. They didn't blink.

    Then May and Davis and co thought they would cave if no-deal "stayed on the table". They didn't blink.

    Then they would cave at the last minute (ie in March) because "they always do a deal at the last minute". They didn't blink.

    Maybe there's a trend there?

  37. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CB Fry View Post
    Cameron believed they would cave if he threatened a referendum and potentially leaving.They didn't blink.

    Fox and Boris thought they would cave because of German Car Manufacturers and they need us more than we need them. They didn't blink.

    Then May and Davis and co thought they would cave if no-deal "stayed on the table". They didn't blink.

    Then they would cave at the last minute (ie in March) because "they always do a deal at the last minute". They didn't blink.

    Maybe there's a trend there?
    Although our hand was weakened to some degree by MP's publicly taking the "no deal off the table".

  38. #12338

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Although our hand was weakened to some degree by MP's publicly taking the "no deal off the table".
    Which might become interesting should we reach the October deadline - how does this position actually prevent the UK ceasing to be a member of the EU, as per the A50 submission. Have the EU taken 'no deal' off the table as well ? I don't think they would allow a further extension of A50.

  39. #12339

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Although our hand was weakened to some degree by MP's publicly taking the "no deal off the table".
    That would be true if anyone ever believed that Britain really would pull the suicide trigger. They didn't so it isn't.

  40. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Farage in number 10? Not a ****ing chance mate.

    Voting to leave the EU cos you're a bit racist is very different to voting for someone like that in a GE.
    A very tolerant, well reasoned argument that is sure to sway many people to your way of thinking. People love being generalised and insulted.

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  41. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint_clark View Post
    A very tolerant, well reasoned argument that is sure to sway many people to your way of thinking. People love being generalised and insulted.

    Sent from my SM-J600FN using Tapatalk
    You don't really need a well-reasoned argument to say Farage isn't going to be Prime Minister at the next election. He's not.

  42. #12342

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    If Farage wants to be in No. 10 he had better try and become an MP first. He has failed in this 7 or 8 times and has side stepped standing in Peterborough.

    Farage doesn't want to be in No. 10. He prefers to be some sort of global, roving right wing rent a gob sucking up to the likes of Trump.

  43. #12343

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamesaint View Post
    If Farage wants to be in No. 10 he had better try and become an MP first. He has failed in this 7 or 8 times and has side stepped standing in Peterborough.

    Farage doesn't want to be in No. 10. He prefers to be some sort of global, roving right wing rent a gob sucking up to the likes of Trump.
    I also suspect he'd be secretly gutted if we actually leave the EU he has made a great living out of being an MEP and being the anti European guy. The inability of parliament to sort out brexit has no doubt been great for his bank balance.

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  44. #12344

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    Didn’t realise there was another Rees Mogg. Annunziata Rees Mogg looks like Emily Blunt if she ran out of veins to shoot up in.

  45. #12345

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Didn’t realise there was another Rees Mogg. Annunziata Rees Mogg looks like Emily Blunt if she ran out of veins to shoot up in.
    There's more than 2 - Modwenna Rees Mogg

  46. #12346

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    Didn’t realise there was another Rees Mogg. Annunziata Rees Mogg looks like Emily Blunt if she ran out of veins to shoot up in.
    She doesn't sound and look anything like the Family Guy character that Jacob is. It's very odd.

  47. Default

    Absolutely no need for personal attacks on people.

  48. #12348

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    So, if No Deal loving Boris gets in, we'll see a vote of no-confidence and a Labour led coalition.

    Means the Tories need to go down a route of selecting a leader who will rule out No Deal.

    Welcome to no.10 Jeremy Hunt.

  49. #12349

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nolan View Post
    Absolutely no need for personal attacks on people.
    Just in case she's reading, yeah?

  50. Default

    Went does it matter if anyone is reading or not?

    Whats the point in just being nasty about people?

    Debate the argument, but the personality.

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