Pompey Takeover Saga

[tony13579]

re: This Griffin CVA one slight problem ... http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2121302722

Posts: 1,666

Hall of Fame

'suicide' wrote at 20:10 on 08 Jun:

Player Sales

It is envisaged that player sales will amount to a £30,000,000 realisation during this

years transfer window.

 

Sui you seem to be forgetting plan B re player sales, i.e. shoot them and claim the insurance.

Is he closer to the truth than he knows? Is that why they are all flying round the States? They are planning a plane crash in The Grand Canyon?

[hutch]

I've just finished cleaning my keyboard. I followed the link above, and ended up on one of their boards.

 

I noticed on there that every time they post a reply, it adds another re: to the header. Lucky our board doesn't do that on this thread.

[Crab Lungs]

I know many of you won't look at their boards, but they do give an insight as to the way they see things.

 

Here is a prime example of how they still think they will get away with it.

 

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2121300887

 

Now either we're wrong (no chance) or they are (oh yes, belive me;)).

 

 

Another one .....

 

http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php?tno=424&fid=203&sty=2&act=1&mid=2121300887

 

in particular this...

 

mr_bishiuk Posted on 09/06/2010 16:32

We're gonna be liqidated

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I agree Deep, I think HMRC are being quite vindictive in this 20p is more than they get out of a most administrations and it seems we had agreed to pay more by accepting additional charges. It is them after all that let the balance build up to such an extent.

 

Most of the money owed to them is because we were paying wages we could afford and therefore couldn't meet the monthly PAYE/NI liability, i'm not making excuses but these players came over here and paid a lot of tax and spent a lot of money in the economy but they didn't use the NHS, or the education system and the country wont be paying for their retirement either.

 

I actually cannot believe how thick they are. Continuously, dumbfoundingly thick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, wait. Yes I can.

[Wes Tender]

I agree Deep, I think HMRC are being quite vindictive in this 20p is more than they get out of a most administrations and it seems we had agreed to pay more by accepting additional charges. It is them after all that let the balance build up to such an extent.

 

Most of the money owed to them is because we were paying wages we could afford and therefore couldn't meet the monthly PAYE/NI liability, i'm not making excuses but these players came over here and paid a lot of tax and spent a lot of money in the economy but they didn't use the NHS, or the education system and the country wont be paying for their retirement either.

 

This really is priceless, isn't it? Presumably he is overlooking in his naivety the possibility that some monies due to the taxman had been avoided by some of the transfers of players into the club going through Swiss Bank accounts and through the tax haven of the BVIs. Also, what sort of warped logic would state that they could afford the wages of the players but not the PAYE/NI? That's a bit like saying that one could afford the product, but not the VAT on it, or the holiday but not the flight.

 

And he makes out a case that the foreign players paid high taxes but received no benefit from the State for education (presumably none of the foreign players had children over here) or health. But what about all of the British players in their squad? Anyway, there really cannot be any defence at all of a club that has cheated the taxpayer of revenue that could have been used to improve education, health and pensions or used to repay debts owed to charities and schools, but which instead went towards the over-inflated wages of footballers earning more than the Prime Minister and most of us mere mortals who abide by the law and pay our taxes.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

looks like it was the taxman's fault after all, he should be paying them something as an apology, I bet the greedy git kept taking their VAT off them as well.

Those spiteful creditors as well, providing services and then expecting payment!!

 

Is AA the first football administrator who has actually forgotten to administrate and is instead pretending to run a little football club project and does everything in his power to avoid settling debts or satisfying creditors?

It's so obvious he's working for one man, the authorities must be ready to jump on him from a great height.

Good to see we've cleared up that there will be no more points penalties, that must be a relief to any of the few who haven't read the small print.

 

You can see it, I can see it, anyone (Skates excepted*) who posts on this thread can see it but I think that outside of us Saints fans the world is blind to it!

 

*Ok, the Ho excepted!

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Is he closer to the truth than he knows? Is that why they are all flying round the States? They are planning a plane crash in The Grand Canyon?

 

That will be the fault of Al Queda.

 

Cue abusive phone calls to the Portsmouth branch of Dalkia!

[sidthesquid]

Another nugget from the Skate News & more priceless posters

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Embargo-leaves-Pompey-in-limbo.6353103.jp

 

Well that really is a case of tying both hands behind the back. It seems ridiculous to me that a club cannot offer players a new contract especially with special conditions put in place (maximum wage of 10k p/w)....

&

 

...Come on, give us a break! We've already been penalised for going into administration, with the deduction of points, and the Football league has said we wont get deducted any more points for going into administration because we shouldnt be punished twice for the same offence, but what is this latest ruling if it isnt punishing us for something we've already been punished for??

 

Is the idea that YOU HAVEN'T GOT ANY MONEY SO YOU CAN'T HAVE IT so alien to the pikey cod-botherers that they just can't grasp the concept. Trying to get them to understand it is like trying to teach the dog how to play cricket. I suppose if they want something on Portsea Island they stick it on a credit card they'll never pay off or just nick it.

[warsash saint]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

[saintjay77]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

 

LOL

 

I didnt think an owner could own 2 teams anyway????? If they own a team already how can they then buy a 2nd team?????

 

More fantasy football logic being applied by Android it seems.

[Joensuu]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

 

Another attempt to try to undermine Griffin. Android has tried the frontal assault and got beaten swiftly back. Now he's trying to put the wind up the creditors... 'If you reject my CVA, Pompey won't be attractive enough for anyone to want to rape, and you dear creditors won't get any of your cash back'.

[benjii]

Another nugget from the Skate News & more priceless posters

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Embargo-leaves-Pompey-in-limbo.6353103.jp

 

Well that really is a case of tying both hands behind the back. It seems ridiculous to me that a club cannot offer players a new contract especially with special conditions put in place (maximum wage of 10k p/w)....

&

 

...Come on, give us a break! We've already been penalised for going into administration, with the deduction of points, and the Football league has said we wont get deducted any more points for going into administration because we shouldnt be punished twice for the same offence, but what is this latest ruling if it isnt punishing us for something we've already been punished for??

 

Is the idea that YOU HAVEN'T GOT ANY MONEY SO YOU CAN'T HAVE IT so alien to the pikey cod-botherers that they just can't grasp the concept. Trying to get them to understand it is like trying to teach the dog how to play cricket. I suppose if they want something on Portsea Island they stick it on a credit card they'll never pay off or just nick it.

 

It's not difficult is it?

 

You have a history of buying things you can't afford and abusing the credit of others. You are insolvent - fact. You have massively negative assets - fact. You are relying on the goodwill of a creditor to service your day-to-day running costs - fact. You enjoyed relative success off the back of this credit abuse - fact. You have, presently, a stronger squad than many of your divisional rivals as a result of this. You want to spend money on players to gain a further advantage over teams who are not insolvent and operate within the spirit of fair play - get stuffed.

 

It really hasn't sunk in yet to a lot of skates that footballing decline is inevitable. To be fair, AA hasn't helped by spouting off about forming a decent squad of high qulity frees etc...

[Joensuu]

LOL

 

I didnt think an owner could own 2 teams anyway????? If they own a team already how can they then buy a 2nd team?????

 

More fantasy football logic being applied by Android it seems.

 

So which of these teams is owned by someone involved in steel?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_Ukraine

[Colinjb]

Android:

 

'The Griffins offer is just not workable, there would not be a football club left.'

 

Erm, further proof he is not working in the best interest of the creditors.

[Liquidshokk]

They will not be docked points this coming season unless they choose to exit administration without a CVA.

 

Damn Shame....

[Joensuu]

So which of these teams is owned by someone involved in steel?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_Ukraine

 

 

Answered my own quetion I think:

 

Illichivets are owned by Volodymyr Boyko the owner of http://www.ilyich.com.ua/

 

(Edit: who apparently is the 6th richest person in the Ukraine, with an estimated wealth of either $3.15 billion or $1.3 billion) both less than Markus...

Edited 10 June, 2010 by Joensuu

[Matthew Le God]

So which of these teams is owned by someone involved in steel?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_Ukraine

 

The Ukraine is full of business corruption and dodgy dealings, little surprise AA has resorted to flogging the club to markets such as these with the situation so desperate.

 

Just look at this chairman's past...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vadim_Rabinovich

 

I wonder if Rupert Lowe ever sold tanks to the Taliban?

 

I don't think the Ukraine has particulary strong fit and proper persons tests!

[trousers]

I've just finished cleaning my keyboard. I followed the link above, and ended up on one of their boards.

 

I noticed on there that every time they post a reply, it adds another re: to the header. Lucky our board doesn't do that on this thread.

 

Try changing the 'display mode' setting (top right of screen) to 'threaded mode' and you get:

 

Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 12874 bytes) in /var/www/vhosts/saintsweb.co.uk/httpdocs/forum/showthread.php on line 1275

[saintjay77]

Another attempt to try to undermine Griffin. Android has tried the frontal assault and got beaten swiftly back. Now he's trying to put the wind up the creditors... 'If you reject my CVA, Pompey won't be attractive enough for anyone to want to rape, and you dear creditors won't get any of your cash back'.

 

If the company is liquidated completly do footballing debts have to be paid in full or is any funds raised split equally between all creditors?

 

It could mean that liquidation would still raise more than the 20% the non footballing creditors can expect anyway so yet another stupid comment from Android if the above is true.

[benjii]

AA says some odd things.

 

Obviously, a CVA involving a 1p dividend is more attractive to potential purchasers than a CVA involving a 65p dividend. Whatever. That's not the purpose of administration. I really don't understand why he keeps making public statements that back up allegations that have been made against him. If he just kept quiet and got it with it there would be much less smoke - even if he offered a hopeless CVA. I would like someone to ask him why promotion to the PL would only increase the dividend by 5p. Promotion would be a guaranteed £100m+ in extra revenue. There is absolutely no reason why promotion couldn't lead to a dividend at 80p +.

[Joey-deacons-left-nut]

hahahaha brilliant!

 

So..

 

The FL have said the Transfer Embargo will remain inplace until they can get a CVA signed.

 

That means although they can sell players they can't sign ANYONE. That means all those out of conract (James,Rocha.Heriderson) and those offered improved contract CANNOT sign them until the embargo is lifted.

 

If it's not lifted they will be left with whats left (they got rid of most of them by the way) of the youth team.

 

now HMRC are goign to turn down the CVA as well as one other creditor, meaning they won't be getting the CVA signed.

 

So they could (probably) be looking at -17 AND no players

[benjii]

If the company is liquidated completly do footballing debts have to be paid in full or is any funds raised split equally between all creditors?

 

It could mean that liquidation would still raise more than the 20% the non footballing creditors can expect anyway so yet another stupid comment from Android if the above is true.

 

The football creditors rule has no formal legal status. In a liquidation it could be ignored. Football creditors would rank alongside HMRC and all the local suppliers.

 

That said, even a dividend of 20p is probably more than unsecured creditors would get in a liquidation. I would imagine that the parachute payments are not payable to a liquidated company (although who knows whether the authorities have the appropriate contractual documentation in place). That leaves the only cash pot as being the proceeds of sale of Krap Nottarf (as players would leave for free). That would probably not even pay Chanrai back so unsecured creditors would get zip.

Edited 10 June, 2010 by benjii

[benjii]

hahahaha brilliant!

 

So..

 

The FL have said the Transfer Embargo will remain inplace until they can get a CVA signed.

 

That means although they can sell players they can't sign ANYONE. That means all those out of conract (James,Rocha.Heriderson) and those offered improved contract CANNOT sign them until the embargo is lifted.

 

If it's not lifted they will be left with whats left (they got rid of most of them by the way) of the youth team.

 

now HMRC are goign to turn down the CVA as well as one other creditor, meaning they won't be getting the CVA signed.

 

So they could (probably) be looking at -17 AND no players

 

And even if they get a CVA there is likely to be a ban on signing anyone other than frees.

[toofarnorth]

He's banging on about 20 players etc, but i'm sure Bournemouth didn't have 20 and they couldn't sign anyone.

[saintjay77]

The football creditors rule has no formal legal status. In a liquidation it could be ignored. Football creditors would rank alongside HMRC and all the local suppliers.

 

That said, even a dividend of 20p is probably more than unsecured creditors would get in a liquidation. I would imagine that the parachute payments are not payable to a liquidated company (although who knows whether the authorities have the appropriate contractual documentation in place). That leaves the only cash pot as being the proceeds of sale of Krap Nottarf (as players would leave for free). That would probably not even pay Chanrai back so unsecured creditors would get zip.

 

Thats what I was asking though, would unsecurred creditors be treated the same as securred creditors if a liquidation were to happen? So would Chanrai get the same %'age as everyone else of whats left?

 

I didnt think about the players leaving on a free or the parachute payments so thinking again the pot would get allot smaller so maybe its not better than the 20%.

 

If I was a creditor being offered 20p in the pound while Millions go everywhere else and millions more are still being spunked on the team I think I might be tempted to tell them to F Off and take my chances in Liquidation. Would depend on how much I was expecting to lose mind but the temptation would still be there.

Edited 10 June, 2010 by saintjay77

[merrimd]

He's banging on about 20 players etc, but i'm sure Bournemouth didn't have 20 and they couldn't sign anyone.

 

iirc they got to 14 fit players, and the league finally allowed them to sign someone on a loan. Different world, the Football League, as the Blue Few are soon to find out.

[Channon's Sideburns]

He's banging on about 20 players etc, but i'm sure Bournemouth didn't have 20 and they couldn't sign anyone.

 

Exactly, what a 'transfer embargo' should be.

 

Oh dear, they'll need to be led through that one, the blue few.

 

No cheating?...surely not.

[Matthew Le God]

He's banging on about 20 players etc, but i'm sure Bournemouth didn't have 20 and they couldn't sign anyone.

 

Pompey have far more players than AA is willing to talk about in the press.

 

The have an under 18 team for a start. All of which are eligible to play in the first team. Yes, they'd lose alot of games in the Championship, but no need to relax a transfer embargo when the club can use youngsters to make up the numbers.

[View From The Top]

My source at Wolves has said that WWFC have made enquiries regarding Boatang and Belhadj at they are MM prefered targets.

[benjii]

Thats what I was asking though, would unsecurred creditors be treated the same as securred creditors if a liquidation were to happen? So would Chanrai get the same %'age as everyone else of whats left?

 

I didnt think about the players leaving on a free or the parachute payments so thinking again the pot would get allot smaller so maybe its not better than the 20%.

 

If I was a creditor being offered 20p in the pound while Millions go everywhere else and millions more are still being spunked on the team I think I might be tempted to tell them to F Off and take my chances in Liquidation. Would depend on how much I was expecting to lose mind but the temptation would still be there.

 

No - as a secured creditor Chanrai would have priority over the sale proceeds.

 

There is a provision in the insolvency act for ring-fencing of a small part of the pot but Chanrai would get the lion's share and the other creditors would get next to nothing.

 

This, of course, assumes that Chanrai's security is not challenged by the liquidator.

[skintsaint]

doesnt Abramovich own CSKA Moscow & Chelsea?

[saintjay77]

No - as a secured creditor Chanrai would have priority over the sale proceeds.

 

There is a provision in the insolvency act for ring-fencing of a small part of the pot but Chanrai would get the lion's share and the other creditors would get next to nothing.

 

This, of course, assumes that Chanrai's security is not challenged by the liquidator.

 

Ah ok and cheers for that.

 

Assuming that his security is valid it doesnt look like its a worthwile option to the people that might look to lose out either way.

 

If HMRC are set to oppose the CVA and who ever Griffins are talking on behalf of are also set to oppose it then they may be closer to Liquidation what ever happens.

 

If prospective buyers are few and far between with things as they stand I guess they will be even fewer with the possibility of further points due to no CVA and possibly yet more to come due to the way the club has been run in the past.

 

We have new owners and a practically new team but we still carried the punishment for what the previous lot did. Anyone looking at Poopy will no doubt take that into there thoughts.

[saintjay77]

doesnt Abramovich own CSKA Moscow & Chelsea?

 

I thought he had something to do with them but to own Chelsea he had to make some kind of changes. I think he has more to do with the national team now or something.

[Joensuu]

doesnt Abramovich own CSKA Moscow & Chelsea?

 

No, he doesn't have any money invested in CSKA. He sponsored them back in 2004/5, but since then isn't involved with them at all... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich#CSKA_Moscow

[sidthesquid]

If the company is liquidated completly do footballing debts have to be paid in full or is any funds raised split equally between all creditors?

 

It could mean that liquidation would still raise more than the 20% the non footballing creditors can expect anyway so yet another stupid comment from Android if the above is true.

 

Interesting point. The football first rule only really applies if the club wants to be re-allowed into the FL via the 'golden share'

[skintsaint]

No, he doesn't have any money invested in CSKA. He sponsored them back in 2004/5, but since then isn't involved with them at all... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Abramovich#CSKA_Moscow

 

bah hate reading about insanly rich people and what they own etc

[dubai_phil]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

 

 

PMSL

 

That one is priceless for many more than one reason

 

Oh and BTW it is not permitted to own two teams in the same COUNTRY, but it is possible to own two teams in DIFFERENT countries. For full details on how to do that just mail Abramovich, Roman

[CB Saint]

This comment of AA gets up my nose...

 

'The Griffins offer is just not workable, there would not be a football club left.'

 

He is suppose to be doing what right for the creditors not the fans and if that means that PFC ceases to exist then that is what has to happen.

[saintjay77]

PMSL

 

That one is priceless for many more than one reason

 

Oh and BTW it is not permitted to own two teams in the same COUNTRY, but it is possible to own two teams in DIFFERENT countries. For full details on how to do that just mail Abramovich, Roman

 

Dont even think thats the case although im sure there is some way round it if you have enough dosh.

 

Champions League could be compromised if you own 2 teams that could end up playing each other for instance.

 

Poopy are a long way of that level obviously but still.....

[stevegrant]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

That's an awful lot of convenient bull**** I'm smelling...

[Channon's Sideburns]

This is a good article...

 

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=5438

 

Strange this link when he was at Swindon....'invited' to the club by Terry Brady - wasn't he a director at Portsmouth at one time???

[dubai_phil]

This comment of AA gets up my nose...

 

'The Griffins offer is just not workable, there would not be a football club left.'

 

He is suppose to be doing what right for the creditors not the fans and if that means that PFC ceases to exist then that is what has to happen.

 

Compare his public statements with those of Mark Fry.

 

Then add in that Fry had at least 4 verbal bids with proven funds that he knocked back in the early days, everyone of which would have secured an immediate payout for creditors in the region of what AA is currently estimating he will get over 5 years, AND most of those bids included a future bonus payment on promotions....

 

Complete joke is Andy. IMHO He isn't really an Administrator at all, he is a nightmare combination of Rupert, The Exces, Leon and Wilde and his only wish in life is to spend his time playing with train sets. I bet if you look at his School report it says " I want to be a Football Club Chairman when I grow up"

 

Which makes him just like a lot of other people we know.

[hutch]

As I see it, they can still be penalised in the coming season for:

• A financial irregularity
  
• Any other irregularity
  
• Exiting administration the wrong way
  

and the one after if they are still in admin.

 

And they still have no squad and no money. AND I think they're still under a registration embargo. Nothing's changed.

3 down. 4 to go.

[saintjay77]

This comment of AA gets up my nose...

 

'The Griffins offer is just not workable, there would not be a football club left.'

 

He is suppose to be doing what right for the creditors not the fans and if that means that PFC ceases to exist then that is what has to happen.

 

It must be better for the creditors in the long run for the club to exist rather than not but the Griffins report plan for the club to sink as low as League 2 and still be around. The likes of Torquay, Notts County, Port Vale and Accrinton Stanley may as well close up shop as obviously that level is non existant according to Android.

 

His plan seems to be stay as high as possible in the leagues while giving as little as possible to the creditors.

 

Shouldnt his remit be give as much to the creditors as possible and see how high the club end up?

[sidthesquid]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

 

Reading comments like those from not-so-handy Andy reinforces my view that all his daft public utterings - CVA no probs, appeal the Euro League decision etc etc - are all aimed at convincing some hapless Ukrainian mark that all is well.

[100%Red&White]

That will be the fault of Al Queda.

 

Cue abusive phone calls to the Portsmouth branch of Dalkia!

 

They'd probably phone IKEA if the Paulsgrove 'pediatricians' incident is anything to go by*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*I realise it was later said to be in Swansea but hey.

[Joey-deacons-left-nut]

This is a good article...

 

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=5438

 

Strange this link when he was at Swindon....'invited' to the club by Terry Brady - wasn't he a director at Portsmouth at one time???

 

Not really... AA was one of the juinior Admins at pompey the last time they went into Admin... oh.....

[Give it to Ron]

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/newshome/Andronikou39s-anger-as-Ukrainians-go.6352971.jp

 

 

Potential buyers see sense

 

:-P My heart bleeds for them

 

Seems like the perfect lot really to buy the Skates and they will pass the proper Person test ;-)

 

http://www.reportingproject.net/football/sub_lavrov.html

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

This is a good article...

 

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=5438

 

Strange this link when he was at Swindon....'invited' to the club by Terry Brady - wasn't he a director at Portsmouth at one time???

 

 

I think Terry Brady was sniffing around Pompey while Mandaric was trying to get his Pompey village housing/stadium redevelopment plan going. I've got some Swindon connections and seem to recall Brady first being linked to Swindon when they got taken over by a consortium that was interested in relocating the stadium to a new site and combining it with the development of housing. After a poor run of form Brady left the club and was replaced by business partner Danny Donegan who hired Roy Evans as manager and signed Ruddock on rediculous wages which precipitated their fall into administration.

 

Interesting that AA should be invited to the club by an ex-owner potentially interested in the re-purchasing the club. sounds familiar.......

 

Luckily they had a local benefactor who kept them going until they were taken over by someone with real funds. If it hadn't been for the benefactors AA would've taken them into liquidation.

[Eastcowzer]

Have we not come across this name before, on this thread?

 

if your thinking of Medellin then you have certainly heard the name before.

Medellin id the drugs capital of Colombia. Make of that what you will.

[Gemmel]

'I've been on the phone to these people late into the night

 

 

Now.... I'm sure aa works hard (As football scout, manager, chairman and the odd bit of administration), and this might be reading something that isn't there, but the time difference between here and the Ukraine, is only an hour...... I wonder whether aa realised this when he made the comment above.