wessex saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Having watched yesterday and also Brighton game i'm not so convinced we should be so desperate to hold onto him. Makes basic errors i.e trying to head the ball back to Davies but just putting their striker in. Also his distribution is very poor. I reckon we can do better - tbh would rather see Thomas starting. Also Harding (although committed)_ is too slow - keeps getting skinned by one-two's. It seems once the oppo have sussed his lack of pace they look to get in behind him as often as possible. Good news is Murty is back - think he will make our right side a lot more solid. As has been said elsewhere, we have the quality going forward to score lots of goals - the problem is a shaky defence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Question marks over all defenders and keeper at the minute. They should be good enough for L1 so maybe coaching is questionable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Having watched yesterday and also Brighton game i'm not so convinced we should be so desperate to hold onto him. Makes basic errors i.e trying to head the ball back to Davies but just putting their striker in. Also his distribution is very poor. I reckon we can do better - tbh would rather see Thomas starting. Also Harding (although committed)_ is too slow - keeps getting skinned by one-two's. It seems once the oppo have sussed his lack of pace they look to get in behind him as often as possible. [b[/b] Good news is Murty is back - think he will make our right side a lot more solid. As has been said elsewhere, we have the quality going forward to score lots of goals - the problem is a shaky defence If you watch, its because he comes further foward to try and cover Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 In the early days Trotman was seen as flawed but okay at this level. From what I have seen of this divison this year I would say the standard is very high and certainly too high for Trotman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 I think he's having a slight dip, because you have to remember, he's still quite young and he hasn't played consistently for quite a long time. But now isn't the time to start grilling him. Don't forget, before we signed him, I was literally holding my breath at EVERY single cross & set piece that went into our box! We'd be weaker without him at this level, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 In the early days Trotman was seen as flawed but okay at this level. From what I have seen of this divison this year I would say the standard is very high and certainly too high for Trotman. Are you for real? The standard of L1 football is almost laughable at times - Trottman has had 1.5 questionable games and now L1 football is above him? Mental Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 IMO Harding has had three bad games this season. Unfortunately Brighton and Norwich were two where we could have done with him on form. He seems a bit too thin skinned for a pro and I think that the booing by the Brighton supporters did a lot to jolt his confidence last week. The defence were definitely at fault for both goals yesterday; far too slow to react where the Norwich players took advantage of the rebounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 In the early days Trotman was seen as flawed but okay at this level. From what I have seen of this divison this year I would say the standard is very high and certainly too high for Trotman. Good lord. Trotman has, on the whole, been excellent for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 IMO Harding has had three bad games this season. Unfortunately Brighton and Norwich were two where we could have done with him on form. He seems a bit too thin skinned for a pro and I think that the booing by the Brighton supporters did a lot to jolt his confidence last week. The defence were definitely at fault for both goals yesterday; far too slow to react where the Norwich players took advantage of the rebounds. Christ on a bike, another one! The first one, the taker was six yards ahead of anyone else. That's cos he took the penalty innit. The second one, a defender was toe to toe with the striker but the ball went to the striker's side, hence he got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 In the early days Trotman was seen as flawed but okay at this level. From what I have seen of this divison this year I would say the standard is very high and certainly too high for Trotman. How much have you seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 How much have you seen? One can only assume he saw the 1st half against Brighton and thats it!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Christ on a bike, another one! The first one, the taker was six yards ahead of anyone else. That's cos he took the penalty innit. The second one, a defender was toe to toe with the striker but the ball went to the striker's side, hence he got it. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 The defence were definitely at fault for both goals yesterday; far too slow to react where the Norwich players took advantage of the rebounds. A decent keeper would/should hold both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 A decent keeper would/should hold both. The second one maybe but the penalty save? Be fair mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 The second one maybe but the penalty save? Be fair mate. Alright Ill let the penalty go - defo the 2nd one thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 I would have thought we would have learned by now, if a young player has a few dodgy games it doesn't mean they are ****e. On the whole Trotman has been excellent for Saints this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 The second one maybe but the penalty save? Be fair mate. The penalty was a great save TBF but he should have either held the second or at least parried it away from the danger zone (probably the best option in the conditions). He also nearly managed to drop the next cross onto the strikers head, luckily managed to grab it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Alright Ill let the penalty go - defo the 2nd one thou. Something I've noticed since goalkeepers started wearing comedy clown gloves is the amount of balls that are not deflected to safety, but stopped dead because of the extra grip and then roll back in into play in a dangerous position. KDs penalty save was excellent and it was so unlucky to deflect back the way it did. However, in that time we should have got at least one defender somewhere near Hoolahan. The second, well I would have thought 'soft hands' from KD and it would have stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genk Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Alright Ill let the penalty go - defo the 2nd one thou. To be fair it was incredibly wet, but yes he should have tried to parry it away to the side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints-cris Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Hes had 2 bad games and you completely ignore the rest of the season where hes been pretty damn good. Theres a reason we've been raving about him, because he has been very good. and he's what only 22? Christ, even Ferdinand and Vidic have off games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 To be fair it was incredibly wet, but yes he should have tried to parry it away to the side I can only judge by my own standards - I am not a keeper (probably could be) but even I would have kept hold of the 2nd. The shot was so far out I could have probably travelled down from Glasgow and still saved (and held) the shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 (edited) I don't think Trotman had a poor game yesterday (unlike Sunday, when he was pants). He made some errors which could have been costly but that was down to the conditions more than poor technique. Those were nightmare conditions for defenders, heavy sheeting rain, strong swirling wind and some minor waterlogging of the pitch. I thought most of the defenders actually dealt with the conditions surprisingly well but there is no doubt that they contributed to the hatful of chances both teams had. Edited 22 November, 2009 by krissyboy31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonManager Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 It was no surprise that the team who had the lion's share of the play in each half was kicking with the wind and rain to their backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Also Harding (although committed)_ is too slow - keeps getting skinned by one-two's. It seems once the oppo have sussed his lack of pace they look to get in behind him as often as possible. Good news is Murty is back - think he will make our right side a lot more solid. I guess people would moan about his lack of pace if Usain Bolt played for us. Sheesh, some people are getting ****ing stupid around here. Then to suggest Murty being back is good, I think I know where my money would be in a race between Harding and Murty. We drew with Norwich yesterday folks, not a bad result against one of the top teams. We didn't lose we scored 2 great golas, yet it seems people on here are at the wrist slitting stage already. One thing to bear in mind at all times, it is an indisputable fact that we are currently watching the worst Saints team for over 50 years (possible exception last year's team as they were relegated to this level). You need to remember that we have level 3 standard players now that we are not in the Prem. The best we should hope for from this squad is that many of them would be OK in the Championship. We probably have the best squad in L1, and we certainly have one of the best coaching setups now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 I would have thought we would have learned by now, if a young player has a few dodgy games it doesn't mean they are ****e. On the whole Trotman has been excellent for Saints this season. If I was a player I would never want to play for this club if I read this board first Christ the lad is 20, he has not played regularly for over a year before joining us and like all young players he will have dips in form.....Lallana for much of last season anyone ?...... For what its worth I think you can trace it back to the Preston manager indicating they would take him back in January after watching him during the international break - which included the Brighton game incidentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 He's a young lad, so he's going to be prone to lapses of concentration and dips in form every now and then - it happens to everyone. He's had far more good games than bad games, put it that way - and he'll turn into a decent football league CB imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 He's manifestly Championship standard. It's obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Instead of consigning him to the sh#t bin, maybe we should consider whether there are any reasons for his dip in form recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Instead of consigning him to the sh#t bin, maybe we should consider whether there are any reasons for his dip in form recently. What dip in form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 What dip in form? I think his performances against LO and BHA we not as good as performances before that and people are suggesting he was below par yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 I think his performances against LO and BHA we not as good as performances before that and people are suggesting he was below par yesterday. Brighton, "yes", otherwise I disagree. Yesterday we were playing against one of the League's top scorers and Jaidi and Trotman hardly gave him a sniff. Their goals came from two individual errors. One from James, one from Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 Are you for real? The standard of L1 football is almost laughable at times - Trottman has had 1.5 questionable games and now L1 football is above him? Mental I have wondered if the fact his 'dip' in form coincides with the public announcement from Irvine that he is going back to PNE in January is purely coincidental. Just a thought but the timing of the two seem remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 I have wondered if the fact his 'dip' in form coincides with the public announcement from Irvine that he is going back to PNE in January is purely coincidental. Just a thought but the timing of the two seem remarkable. Sounds like the lad's head is a little mixed up at the moment. Uncertainty will inevitably affect performance. If he's going back then AP needs to decide if he can trust Trottman to operate at 100% - if not bench him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreog Posted 22 November, 2009 Share Posted 22 November, 2009 I can only judge by my own standards - I am not a keeper (probably could be) but even I would have kept hold of the 2nd. The shot was so far out I could have probably travelled down from Glasgow and still saved (and held) the shot. Ummmmmmm???????...........and join that smallest book of competent Scottish goalkeepers?..................I think not.......best just save the fare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sad saints fan Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 I have relatives who live near Preston and are regular watchers of PNE.According to my uncle,who I spoke to today,Trotman was very inconsistent while he was there.He would have 4or 5 cracking games followed by the same number of stinkers.That was before he got injured.Most of the locals want him back because they are hoping that a run of games in a lower division and possibly some different coaching will help rid him of this inconsistency.But he also said that they are financially in a pretty poor state and that if Saints offered the right money then he would have to be sold. So over to you Mr Pardew,how much is he worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 I have wondered if the fact his 'dip' in form coincides with the public announcement from Irvine that he is going back to PNE in January is purely coincidental. Just a thought but the timing of the two seem remarkable. Absolutely agree with this and I've said it before too. I think Trottman wanted to stay here, but Preston want him back. Its messed his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 A decent keeper would/should hold both. You have got to be kidding!!! Davies dived low to his right and got a hand on a pretty well taken penalty. Unfortunately, he pushed it onto the post and it rebounded favourably to the taker. There isn't a keeper in all the leagues who would have held it. He possibly should have done better for the second but, as always, supporters in the dry in the stand have no idea how greasy or otherwise the ball is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyb1 Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 Good lord. Trotman has, on the whole, been excellent for us. Ok but the last two games he has been awful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiesaint Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 As others have said, harding's problems seem to stem from a lack of midfield cover. This is just about getting the balance of attack and defence right. The problem is that other teams seem to have realised they can exploit this. The goals were from errors and if you can near eliminate errors then that is enough to get out of L1 IMO. I wasn't at the game so it's not at all clear to me why Trotman is getting a hard time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyb1 Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 As others have said, harding's problems seem to stem from a lack of midfield cover. This is just about getting the balance of attack and defence right. The problem is that other teams seem to have realised they can exploit this. The goals were from errors and if you can near eliminate errors then that is enough to get out of L1 IMO. I wasn't at the game so it's not at all clear to me why Trotman is getting a hard time. The bit that stuck out for me (Im pretty sure it was him). Was a long ball over the top where him and someone else took about 30 seconds to decide who was going to try and clear it. At which point Trottman did this crappy little back header straight to their striker to put him through. He then decided the best was to atone of this error was to run back and push the striker over (which was for me their 2nd stone wall pen of the game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkiesaint Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 OK, that's not good. You would think that for balls over the top trotman should be the man. norwich are a decent side though, and it seems that but for a couple of errors we might have won. One point from 2 home games is quite disappointing though, especially after the self-destructing orient game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 He looks clumsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Jazzbo Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 Has anyone noticed the dip in form has come since the the Preston Manager was quoted as saying he would definitely be going back there in Jan. Maybe, that is having some effect, as he is now not sure about his future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 Has anyone noticed the dip in form has come since the the Preston Manager was quoted as saying he would definitely be going back there in Jan. Maybe, that is having some effect, as he is now not sure about his future. I think you may be close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asaint4ever Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 jesus we have a bit of bad form and lets find some one to blame! TROTMAN? i think the back 4 has been shocking! not just trotters, jaidi, james been awful! lets be greatful that trotman has come to us and gave his 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 Ok but the last two games he has been awful... No he hasn't. He was quite good against Norwich. In any case, it's irrelevant. The post I was replying to said that he was not good enough for League One which is clearly completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 Trotters is a fantastic prospect he is still very young for a centre back & has lots of time to become a quality player. He had a very poor game v Brighton and was rightly subbed however he played much better against Norwich and up until the Brighton game had been 1st class. It would be a fantastic signing if we can get him permantly the lad will be a decent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 If you watch, its because he comes further foward to try and cover Lallana. I'm not sure if you saw the game Saturday but that was clearly not the case. Lallana stuck to his job wide left and worked his socks off tracking back. Harding for whatever reason just had a poor(er) game than he normally does and kept losing his man time after time. As for Trottman then he's a 'stopper' just like Jaidi and therefore they are too alike to be playing alongside one another. We need someone with some pace in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 I'm not sure if you saw the game Saturday but that was clearly not the case. Lallana stuck to his job wide left and worked his socks off tracking back. Harding for whatever reason just had a poor(er) game than he normally does and kept losing his man time after time. As for Trottman then he's a 'stopper' just like Jaidi and therefore they are too alike to be playing alongside one another. We need someone with some pace in there. If Trotman is on his way in Jan, then hopefully Pardew will have this in mind when he looks for a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastcowzer Posted 23 November, 2009 Share Posted 23 November, 2009 'Trotters' certainly didn't have a good game v BHA but he was far from being 'awful'. There were others equally as unconvincing. As other posters explain, the comments fron PNE almost assuredly are playing on his mind. And as for KD, the Norwich 2nd goal was a re-run of Brighton's 3rd goal. Perhaps he forgot that he was allowed to hold on to the ball. 'Nuff sed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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