Under 21s (?) coach appointed - and Henderson leaves

[Saint_clark]

I assume this is a new section of the club? I've never heard of an under 21s league in England.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2090243,00.html

 

All good things being said again. He turned down an international coaching job to join us.

Stewart Henderson also left due to this. Been a great servant to the club, but let's be honest it was obvious he'd never be a part of our future.

[SaintBobby]

I assume this is a new section of the club? I've never heard of an under 21s league in England.

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2090243,00.html

 

All good things being said again. He turned down an international coaching job to join us.

Stewart Henderson also left due to this. Been a great servant to the club, but let's be honest it was obvious he'd never be a part of our future.

 

Revolutionary new coaching set up, anyone?

[Matthew Le God]

Sounds an interesting structure. Something like this always looked on the cards once the reserves pulled out the league.

 

I've never heard of an under 21s league in England.

 

It is not for an under 21 League Saint Clark.

Edited 12 July, 2010 by Matthew Le God

[Saint_clark]

With every article released it sounds more and more like we really are following the Barca model.

Which suits me fine, of course.

[saint_ben]

wow i had these two coaches at both club and under 17's level. I'd like to thank stewart for everything he did for me. he was there am sure for atleast 20 years....pretty sure brantfoot brought him in. but good luck to him. hunter is a well respected coach too. he was at norwich after leaving the fa

[Saint_Jonny]

Seems like a good appointment! All sounds very promising, wont see any sort of results from all this for a few years though I would have thought.

 

Nice to see that the club acknowledges Stewart Hendersons TWENTY year stay at the club with two sentences at the bottom of an article about someone else. Brilliant.

[SuperMikey]

"The (U21) squad replaces the existing Reserve set up and will ensure that the gap between the youth side and the first team is bridged, whilst also allowing for the fast tracking development of young players"

 

Interesting idea that, quite like an International team set up. I like the sound of it, means that we won't get any more hopeless Pulis/Molyneux types clogging up the reserves. Also, the coach sounds very well qualified, and it all seems full steam ahead for SFC!

Shame to see Stewart Henderson leaving though, he's been a great servant to the club in the 20 years he's been associated with us, so thank you Stewart!

[hypochondriac]

Seems like a good appointment! All sounds very promising, wont see any sort of results from all this for a few years though I would have thought.

 

Nice to see that the club acknowledges Stewart Hendersons TWENTY year stay at the club with two sentences at the bottom of an article about someone else. Brilliant.

 

It would be nice to see a bigger article.

[Colinjb]

With every article released it sounds more and more like we really are following the Barca model.

Which suits me fine, of course.

 

The changes make perfect sense, I am a little worried regarding who will play them though! No other club in this country has an u21 team. Will they be playing v reserve sides in friendlies or other youth set ups?

[trousers]

The changes make perfect sense, I am a little worried regarding who will play them though! No other club in this country has an u21 team. Will they be playing v reserve sides in friendlies or other youth set ups?

 

The article says it's a straight replacement of the reserves team so it looks like they will play the same games as the 'old' reserve team would have done. The main difference being that the 'reserves' will be formed entirely of younger players.

[Matthew Le God]

The article says it's a straight replacement of the reserves team so it looks like they will play the same games as the 'old' reserve team would have done. .

 

The reserves played in a league. The club have pulled out of the league. The under 21's will not be playing the same games as the old reserves would have done, they will play friendlies home and abroad.

[trousers]

The reserves played in a league. The club have pulled out of the league. The under 21's will not be playing the same games as the old reserves would have done, they will play friendlies home and abroad.

 

Where did it say that? (apologies if it's leaping out at me and I can't see it for looking)

[hypochondriac]

The reserves played in a league. The club have pulled out of the league. The under 21's will not be playing the same games as the old reserves would have done, they will play friendlies home and abroad.

This and I think it's a positive thing actually.

[SuperMikey]

Where did it say that? (apologies if it's leaping out at me and I can't see it for looking)

 

Was announced a while back, the 'reserves' (ie the U21 squad) will be playing friendlies against continental teams instead of Bishop's Stortford Reserves on a rainy Tuesday night.

[trousers]

Was announced a while back

 

Ah, ok. Must've missed that announcement. cheers

[MarkSFC]

All seems very logical and practical. Innovation is great to see when it's backed up with real substance. 4-6 years time it will be producing 3-4 players a year I suspect and when we are in the Prem.

 

What I dint understand is how we could possibly have made this appointment when NC is on holiday?!!!!

[moon monkey]

Had a feeling that Henderson was on his way out. With no mention of him in Switzerland and Dodd taking the youngsters, it seems that a completely new staffing set up. I wonder if a new physio and fitness coach will be next in line.

 

Amazing that Henderson was here for 20 years and survived all those managers and board changes and still helped to bring through some cracking players. He might even get a job up the road to that lot.

[SparkySaint]

Agreed. There was no real competions for our players. They need testing against good opposition before being brought into the first team. The jump from u18s to league football was, and is, to big. Little arranged friendlies against good English sides and tours abroad sounds like a smart move. We'll see how this one turns out over the season. We could see some good sides down at Staplewood soon and they'll probably be better than Forset Green Rovers second string

[Saint Fan CaM]

Another piece of the jigsaw that will see Saints as a major force in English football, falls into place. In 10-15 years time, I think we shall see an England side made up of a good many Saints players. One thing that has stuck in my mind about the World Cup is the fact that Spanish top league teams are made up of 77% Spanish players. I think it is definately a case of watch this space regarding Saints producing young talent and the plans appear to be so ambitious that previous regimes wouldn't even have conceived of the heights aimed for. Actually, in 10-15 years time we could be the envy of European football clubs. I believe!

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Another piece of the jigsaw that will see Saints as a major force in English football, falls into place. In 10-15 years time, I think we shall see an England side made up of a good many Saints players. One thing that has stuck in my mind about the World Cup is the fact that Spanish top league teams are made up of 77% Spanish players. I think it is definately a case of watch this space regarding Saints producing young talent and the plans appear to be so ambitious that previous regimes wouldn't even have conceived of the heights aimed for. Actually, in 10-15 years time we could be the envy of European football clubs. I believe!

 

Was thinking exactly the same thing. It's no coincidence that Spain have this 'golden generation' of players- they've all been carefully picked and trained from a very young age, and I hope Saints will be doing the same.

[Matthew Le God]

This and I think it's a positive thing actually.

 

So do I.

[Block 5]

Good move and all very positive.

[Thedelldays]

Good move and all very positive.

other countries do this....

 

even on the radio the other day, the debate was about England and the failings....one person spoke about sevilla and how their "B TEAM" is actually made up of U21s that play the exact same system as the first team etc...

 

 

seing as the other 91 clubs in England DONT do this...I wonder what the cortese "haters" think...?

 

should we follow suit in the defunct english set up...or start to try an look at what others (who are very successful) do..?

Edited 13 July, 2010 by Thedelldays

[JustMike]

I heard about this last week for someone that has just be employed there. He said that the U21 set up was because of the fact we wont be in a reserve league. We will have various coaches (U16, U18 etc) but with one "manager" for all U21. All these positions report to the new head of development (cant remember his name**). He did then go on to say that henderson didnt really fit that bill and that anyone who has survived that many managers must have been either a) brown nosing somone or b) backstabbing somone. His opinion, not mine or the clubs.

 

** Edit - Les Reed

Edited 13 July, 2010 by JustMike
should have read article 1st

[Pilchards]

I read an article by Klinsman who decided to change the Germany setup.

He got the under 21's playing a system to the first team and he wanted the team to be given a chance nice and early.

They won a tournament a dew years back and as we all know they had 6 very good you g players playing against England.

They will get better and better and I only believe Saints will be a great force come 5 years time with the likes of our wonder kid Sinclair leading the way for club and country.

[John B]

other countries do this....

 

even on the radio the other day, the debate was about England and the failings....one person spoke about sevilla and how their "B TEAM" is actually made up of U21s that play the exact same system as the first team etc...

 

 

seing as the other 91 clubs in England DONT do this...I wonder what the cortese "haters" think...?

 

should we follow suit in the defunct english set up...or start to try an look at what others (who are very successful) do..?

 

Yes sounds very much like the Dutch way too which the previous regime wanted to adopt which I fully supported.

 

I was very impressed with an interview Martin Jol Manager of Ajax gave on Sunday his team has 8 or 9 players who have come through his Academy

 

Playing together for a number of years must be a good thing

[suewhistle]

I've heard a few good things about how much more professional the set up is now. Whilst browsing the Thun FC web-site I notice they don't have a "reserve" side as such but U-21, U-18 etc, so this would fit in with the plan to play foreign sides.

 

Anyway, I'm off and will be in Switzerland in less than an hour.

[Katalinic]

I agree - and finally we are in a sound financial position and have a chairman who realises that the way forward is not to sell your wonder kids as soon as someone waves a few million £ under your nose - long term thinking and strategy at last!

[John B]

I agree - and finally we are in a sound financial position and have a chairman who realises that the way forward is not to sell your wonder kids as soon as someone waves a few million £ under your nose - long term thinking and strategy at last!

 

I dont see much difference between this strategy and Lowe's

 

We will have to wait and see what happens when we produce a Walcott a Bale or a Bridge in the future but I would be surprised that they did not eventually move to a top club

[St_Tel49]

I dont see much difference between this strategy and Lowe's

Probably none, except there is now money to back it up.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Funny that when Lowe tinkered around with something different, he was slaughtered.

 

The U21 concept will work... as long as we have a strong group of players who are U21.

 

If 20 of our first-team squad are over 21, then some players could go months without a competetive game.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I agree - and finally we are in a sound financial position and have a chairman who realises that the way forward is not to sell your wonder kids as soon as someone waves a few million £ under your nose - long term thinking and strategy at last!

 

What evidence do you have that we have a Chairman who won't sell our wonder kids?

[John B]

What evidence do you have that we have a Chairman who won't sell our wonder kids?

 

I agree with your comment but without financial contraints there will not be the same pressure to sell to balance the books.

 

But I think players will still leave when their contracts end

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I agree with your comment but without financial contraints there will not be the same pressure to sell to balance the books.

 

But I think players will still leave when their contracts end

 

I still think players will leave regardless.

 

If someone comes in for a reasonable offer for Lallana this season, he will leave. Even if Cortese tries to dig his heels in, if a player wants to leave, you are never going to stop them.

 

Time for a reality check again... We are a League 1 team.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I still think players will leave regardless.

 

If someone comes in for a reasonable offer for Lallana this season, he will leave. Even if Cortese tries to dig his heels in, if a player wants to leave, you are never going to stop them.

 

Time for a reality check again... We are a League 1 team.

 

Oh dear - the depths of your despair know no bounds! This is about the FUTURE - not now...not even about when we're in the CCC probably....but more like in 10 years time. Chill a little and believe in the strategy because it makes emminent sense.

[sidthesquid]

I assume this is a new section of the club? I've never heard of an under 21s league in England.

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2090243,00.html

 

All good things being said again. He turned down an international coaching job to join us.

Stewart Henderson also left due to this. Been a great servant to the club, but let's be honest it was obvious he'd never be a part of our future.

 

Probably not as he must be well past sixty. He has probably retired.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I agree with your comment but without financial contraints there will not be the same pressure to sell to balance the books.

 

But I think players will still leave when their contracts end

 

I would respectfully suggest that your expectations with regard to the clubs ultimate strategy are somewhat low. What if the players do not want to leave Saints because (a) the club is held in VERY high regard by the football world, and/or (b) they do not need to go elsewhere for more money (or perhaps by that time the bubble will have burst anyway)?? The course we're set on to achieve with regard to growing our own players bears no resemblance to previous regimes in that the strategy will be to keep the better youngsters and to sell those that do not meet our high standards - not the other way around. Chalk and cheese.

[John B]

Oh dear - the depths of your despair know no bounds! This is about the FUTURE - not now...not even about when we're in the CCC probably....but more like in 10 years time. Chill a little and believe in the strategy because it makes emminent sense.

 

Although I totally agree in the Strategy it is not a foregone conclusion that it will actually work

 

It works at teams like Ajax and Barcelona because the best young footballers want to go to their Acadamies I doubt whether a top clas youngster in say Nuneaton is dreaming about playing for SFC.

[Dave Benson Phillips]

Oh dear - the depths of your despair know no bounds! This is about the FUTURE - not now...not even about when we're in the CCC probably....but more like in 10 years time. Chill a little and believe in the strategy because it makes emminent sense.

 

The completely unrealistic fantasy world you live in know no bounds.

 

Complete joke that you think in 10 years we will be the envy of European clubs. Absolute fantasy land. We will never consistently challenge the top 4, never. The most realistic we have hope for is being a Everton ( at a push ) level in terms of league position and success. We are not being bankrolled, we will never be consistent challengers.

 

That's not a depth of despair, that's called living in the real world.

Edited 13 July, 2010 by Dave Benson Phillips

[trousers]

Echos of Lowe's masterplan indeed. Now, where does Clive Woodward fit into the new set-up?

[John B]

I would respectfully suggest that your expectations with regard to the clubs ultimate strategy are somewhat low. What if the players do not want to leave Saints because (a) the club is held in VERY high regard by the football world, and/or (b) they do not need to go elsewhere for more money (or perhaps by that time the bubble will have burst anyway)?? The course we're set on to achieve with regard to growing our own players bears no resemblance to previous regimes in that the strategy will be to keep the better youngsters and to sell those that do not meet our high standards - not the other way around. Chalk and cheese.

 

I take your point but I dont think it is not very realistic

 

In the next ten years we are not going to be able to compete with the top Premier League clubs as they are investing all the time and as I said above I doubt whether a top clas youngster in say Nuneaton is dreaming about playing for SFC

 

But as I dont have a Crystal Ball I dont know what will happen after that

[Dave Benson Phillips]

I take your point but I dont think it is that realistic

 

In the next ten years we are not going to be able to compete with the top Premier League clubs

 

But as I dont have a Crystal Ball I dont know what will happen after that

 

We agree Johnny B. Being a mid-range Premier League team is about as realistic as it gets.

 

The Academy is being restructured to make it a viable revenue stream. I am not sure why people fail to understand " The club will live within it's means " and what exactly that means for the club.

 

What it means in very simple terms is the club will be self-sufficient. Academy players are part of the profits... which will be used to pay wages, transfers and operational costs.

 

Forgetting the money as well, if a player wants to leave, they will leave. What Saints player do you know that has put in a transfer request and been told to sit down, shut up?

[Scummer]

Funny that when Lowe tinkered around with something different, he was slaughtered.

 

The U21 concept will work... as long as we have a strong group of players who are U21.

 

If 20 of our first-team squad are over 21, then some players could go months without a competetive game.

 

I see no reason why the odd over-21 couldn't play in games under our under-21 set-up. At international level you used to have a few overage players per team. After all, they aren't even going to be in a league, just playing friendlies. Players coming back from injury will have to have a way of getting a couple of games under their belt.

[John B]

We agree Johnny B. Being a mid-range Premier League team is about as realistic as it gets.

 

The Academy is being restructured to make it a viable revenue stream. I am not sure why people fail to understand " The club will live within it's means " and what exactly that means for the club.

 

What it means in very simple terms is the club will be self-sufficient. Academy players are part of the profits... which will be used to pay wages, transfers and operational costs.

 

Forgetting the money as well, if a player wants to leave, they will leave. What Saints player do you know that has put in a transfer request and been told to sit down, shut up?

 

Which is where we were with Lowe but did not have enough Premiership standard players coming through

 

Now we are in League 1 do we have enough League 1 standard players coming through?

[Saint Fan CaM]

I take your point but I dont think it is not very realistic

 

In the next ten years we are not going to be able to compete with the top Premier League clubs as they are investing all the time and as I said above I doubt whether a top clas youngster in say Nuneaton is dreaming about playing for SFC

 

But as I dont have a Crystal Ball I dont know what will happen after that

 

You may be right - it may not work. However, if in any walk of life a potential acheiver was to think - "mmm, better not have a go because I might fail" - their destiny would be pretty much mapped to failure I would suggest. All we can comment on at the moment is the strategy and the deployment of that strategy. We are seeing small signs of how Cortese is succeeding and I believe we will continue to see (on average) a steady increase in success as Saints rise back to the top - across all areas of the club in fact. No more mickey mouse pretence - real genuine positive steps from a extememly professional organisation.

 

Very exciting indeed, unless you're a person who has some kind of an agenda against Cortese and his team (not a dig at you BTW).

[John B]

You may be right - it may not work. However, if in any walk of life a potential acheiver was to think - "mmm, better not have a go because I might fail" - their destiny would be pretty much mapped to failure I would suggest. All we can comment on at the moment is the strategy and the deployment of that strategy. We are seeing small signs of how Cortese is succeeding and I believe we will continue to see (on average) a steady increase in success as Saints rise back to the top - across all areas of the club in fact. No more mickey mouse pretence - real genuine positive steps from a extememly professional organisation.

 

Very exciting indeed, unless you're a person who has some kind of an agenda against Cortese and his team (not a dig at you BTW).

 

 

The problem I have is that loads of clubs are doing virtually the same thing so although I totally agree with the approach I dont see why we should automatically become successful and other teams do not.

 

 

The approach is the the same as Lowe's but without top class players coming through it will not work but hopefully it will

 

 

Cortese is doing a very good job at the moment but we will have to wait and see how successful he will be in the long term

Edited 13 July, 2010 by John B

[Rebel]

Originally the academy set-up in England was to have three leagues - U17, U19 and U21 - but the FA/Premier League abandonned it before it was even implemented properly and switched to U16 and U18 leagues.

 

Personally I'd like to see a switch back to U17, U19 and U21 and then the big clubs having B teams lower down the leagues restricted to players U23.

 

Far too many players are cast aside far too soon - without being given a real chance to make it.

[OldNick]

Although I totally agree in the Strategy it is not a foregone conclusion that it will actually work

 

It works at teams like Ajax and Barcelona because the best young footballers want to go to their Acadamies I doubt whether a top clas youngster in say Nuneaton is dreaming about playing for SFC.

We managed to get some fine young players in the past against clubs like Chelsea Manu etc. If their parents believe they have more chance of progressing by joining us then they will be happy for them to sign up.

I also think that a large swathe of our support bought in to the Dutch experiment and saw the sense in it. It is a way forward, but circumstance last time torpedoed it.

[John B]

We managed to get some fine young players in the past against clubs like Chelsea Manu etc. If their parents believe they have more chance of progressing by joining us then they will be happy for them to sign up.

I also think that a large swathe of our support bought in to the Dutch experiment and saw the sense in it. It is a way forward, but circumstance last time torpedoed it.

 

I agree with you but at the moment we are League 1 and I am not sure that we are getting the best youngsters only time will tell

[OldNick]

I agree with you but at the moment we are League 1 and I am not sure that we are getting the best youngsters only time will tell

It is fair about the L1 thing but forward planning is essential and perhaps the 5 year plan thing also comes into play.If we ever do make the PL again, I dont see us buying players in the 20m bracket or even 10m and so we need a supply from other areas