How does it work?

[Pilchards]

AP says "We've been watching the market, there's not been much movement and we are trying not to pitch in too early as a better player may come available and we miss him. It's about timing, the fans shouldn't get too concerned, I know they are waiting for us to pitch in, but hopefully we will do that in the next few weeks when a lot of managers will be doing the same thing."

 

Someone please explain to me how this works?

 

Am I right in saying that AP has noted his targets and he will wait for that target to become available for the price we think he is worth and also given the other team a chance to bring in a replacement?

 

or does it mean that there is nothing worth going for at the moment until the other team decide to give us a nudge to make an offer as they have decided to sell there best player because they then can bring in 3 more players for that fee?

 

or finally does he mean, I've not had a chance to scout for players or even seen how my current team will play as I just can't remember much from the last season? :-)

 

 

PS I know when someone says we have 5 million to spend on players means that AP has to include signing on fees and wages in that figure, this would suggests he could bring in 2 x 1 million players and a 500k one too which would just about cover it.

[benjii]

He means, "I would like X...

 

Club Y won't sell X at the moment.

 

I don't want to buy W if X becomes available later so I'll wait and see. By the way I am loaded. I can recruit at a level that my competitors dream of. Some of my fans are incontinent little scroats with psycho-analytically interesting disorders but I coudn't give a flying **** about them because they're special".

[Pilchards]

He means, "I would like X...

 

Club Y won't sell X at the moment.

 

I don't want to buy W if X becomes available later so I'll wait and see. By the way I am loaded. I can recruit at a level that my competitors dream of. Some of my fans are incontinent little scroats with psycho-analytically interesting disorders but I coudn't give a flying **** about them because they're special".

 

But if Y wont sell X then it means we have missed out on a,b,c,d,e,f etc.........

Or does it mean that Y knows AP will come back with a better offer to sell X.

[benjii]

I thinkg AP thinks a.b.c.d.e.f.etc are not as good so it's worth playing the waiting game.

 

If we miss out on some signings I guess we'll look to recuit in the loan market later on.

 

By the way, I have not a scooby, this is all supposition.

[Gemmel]

I took AP's quote as meaning we are in for a player or two that are top draw, but they will wait and see if anything better comes along....Pullis is up for it (Right Mark )

[Viking Warrior]

Pilchards as an esteemed poster you clearly have your finger on the pulse> I have long admired your contributions. Many deals can take several weeks to come to fruition. Clubs are recentl back from their sabbaticals . Some of the premier league transfers have be ongoing for at least 2 months

I can well expect a deluge of transfer in the next 4 weeks . Clubs will be assessing thei initial targets before making a firm bid . We have had the distraction of the world cup some clubs will be asked to keep a check on certain players to ensure they were not just a flash in the pan

after all they do not want to waste their money

[david in sweden]

He means, "I would like X...

 

Club Y won't sell X at the moment.

 

I don't want to buy W if X becomes available later so I'll wait and see. By the way I am loaded. I can recruit at a level that my competitors dream of. Some of my fans are incontinent little scroats with psycho-analytically interesting disorders but I coudn't give a flying **** about them because they're special".

 

yeah Benji..I think I'd go along with your judgment! Our only probelm - at this level - is we have TOO MUCH money.

Every contracted player we look at will suddenly be quoted at £1 million + and all those hard-up clubs would sell the groundsman's cat for 100K.

 

I suspect that AP is looking at former Prem. players who - having been released - can't find a new club, but would have a field day in L1.

Whether it's true or not ..the Benjani saga is a typical example. Last season we got Jahdi and Fonte.....and now Butterfield for free.

No point in spending money unneccessarily just because you've got it. Get a reputation for big spending and little clubs will expect to get a big fee.

Edited 25 July, 2010 by david in sweden

[david in sweden]

Pilchards as an esteemed poster you clearly have your finger on the pulse> I have long admired your contributions. Many deals can take several weeks to come to fruition. Clubs are recentl back from their sabbaticals . Some of the premier league transfers have be ongoing for at least 2 months

I can well expect a deluge of transfer in the next 4 weeks . Clubs will be assessing thei initial targets before making a firm bid . We have had the distraction of the world cup some clubs will be asked to keep a check on certain players to ensure they were not just a flash in the pan

after all they do not want to waste their money

 

A very calm logical assessment , Viking . I agree.

[Pilchards]

 

I suspect that AP is looking at former Prem. players who - having been released.

 

I'm not so sure he is, I feel he is looking for players that are this divisions/championship best (Stock, Austin &Danns type) who will help us go straight through two leagues. Plus he will want a return on them if they can't quite hack the premier.

Edited 25 July, 2010 by Pilchards

[VectisSaint]

There are players currently available and some of them would be OK, and we could get them here, but as pre-season progresses and clubs assess their squads and who they want to keep other, possibly better players may become available. If we have already pitched in and bought from the current pool we would then be kicking ourselves because we would not then be in a position to get the better player. Simples.

 

Makes perfect sense, we have perfectly good team to start the season with, we need some strengthening and we will do that when the full extent of availability of players is known in a couple of weeks or so, we aren't going to go out and buy now just for the sake of it and because the "fans" expect us to.

[Chez]

But if Y wont sell X then it means we have missed out on a,b,c,d,e,f etc.........

Or does it mean that Y knows AP will come back with a better offer to sell X.

 

only x, Y and Z are worth buying of you want to win the league.

[Mister Neil]

But if Y wont sell X then it means we have missed out on a,b,c,d,e,f etc.........

Or does it mean that Y knows AP will come back with a better offer to sell X.

 

If only you had spent more time studying algebra!

[beatlesaint]

I took it as him meaning we have identified a couple of players for each position that needs strengthening but if someone better comes along in the next few weeks then we are confident that we have the finances to see off any other potential interested clubs.

 

If nothing better does come along we will go for one of the players already on the radar.

I'm wondering if thats not the situation with Antonio for instance.

 

But thats probably not what he was saying at all !

[krissyboy31]

There is also the possibility that we have agreed in principle to sign players X, Y and/or Z but their clubs will only release them if they manage to sign their targeted replacements. Remember, there is another 5 weeks before the transfer window closes. so there is a chance that some or all of our targets will not be signed prior to that.

[revolution saint]

I'd take it to mean that the players we are in for are playing at a higher level but not necessarily guaranteed starters for their current club. So unless the selling club is in financial difficulty then we have to wait until they get replacements in. Of the players we've been linked with I'd guess it's probably worth while following the transfer activity of Notts Forest, Sheff Utd and Reading.

[Alain Perrin]

Poor player G - he can't catch a break.

[Legod Third Coming]

I don't like this fecking about. If we have identified a player and he will help us win the league, BUY him. We are the only club with money.

 

Let's not look at 'value' or 'worth'. If we can't decide if a player is worth it, he isn't.

 

Buy the best now, win the league at a canter and then buy again to win the next league.

 

If a club don't want to sell, make them an offer they cannot refuse. We're talking about trifling amounts of money here - we're not in for Kaka, or Robben. If there's a couple of hundred grand in it, what fecking difference does it make? Winning the league is the imperative.

[farawaysaint]

I don't like this fecking about. If we have identified a player and he will help us win the league, BUY him. We are the only club with money.

 

Let's not look at 'value' or 'worth'. If we can't decide if a player is worth it, he isn't.

 

Buy the best now, win the league at a canter and then buy again to win the next league.

 

If a club don't want to sell, make them an offer they cannot refuse. We're talking about trifling amounts of money here - we're not in for Kaka, or Robben. If there's a couple of hundred grand in it, what fecking difference does it make? Winning the league is the imperative.

 

That way lies madness... And HMCR audits, overspending is frowned on now and the regulations are only going to get stricter in the future. Let's build for that future rather than gamble it away by spending stupid money on fees and wages like certain clubs, (no names mentioned,) have.

[Legod Third Coming]

That way lies madness... And HMCR audits, overspending is frowned on now and the regulations are only going to get stricter in the future. Let's build for that future rather than gamble it away by spending stupid money on fees and wages like certain clubs, (no names mentioned,) have.

 

Nonsense. We're talking about piffling amounts of money - as above, we're not in for Kaka on £130k a week. Clubs are desperate for cash. All this hanging around haggling over a couple of hundred grand (over several years) does is hand an advantage to our opponents. Come the end of the season, I don't want us saying that we missed out because our central midfield was a holding player light of league-winning. And it is.

 

So buy one.

 

Paul Wotton played against Sutton. Think on that my friend. Because that is genuine madness when really talented players are out there with their agents angling for a move....

[Pilchards]

I'd take it to mean that the players we are in for are playing at a higher level but not necessarily guaranteed starters for their current club. So unless the selling club is in financial difficulty then we have to wait until they get replacements in. Of the players we've been linked with I'd guess it's probably worth while following the transfer activity of Notts Forest, Sheff Utd and Reading.

 

That's the way I see it too.

 

If we bought Stock for 1m and Rovers approached Boro with an offer of 400k for there player, You can be sure Strachan will say 'You have the money now so make us a better offer'

 

If it was the other way round where Rovers went to Boro and got a player saying we can only afford 400k they would most likely take it.

 

I remember the days when we would often sell our star player and bring in 3/4 players in for the squad.

Shearer out - Speedie, Groves & Dixon in.... haha

[Barry the Badger]

Sorry legod, completely disagree. Where does pardew state we are haggling over a couple of hundred thousand. Read what has been written. He has identified good players but thinks there is a chance of even better ones, so is being patient.

 

If that is the case, I think it's the right way to go.

[MarkSFC]

I read APs statement as meaning he has already identified who he ideally wants and those players are likely to be courted by others because of their quality. So, making the first move may not be the best strategy this early in the window. The selling clubs will probably need to replace and that has the knockon effect of price being upped depending on what we are paying.

 

You also have the potential that a selling clubs' fans may not want the player to leave so the selling club will need a replacement before or very quickly after!

 

I also read APs as a bit of a smokescreen to play down our expectations of who and when is coming in.

[up and away]

Originally Posted by benjii

He means, "I would like X...

 

Club Y won't sell X at the moment.

 

I don't want to buy W if X becomes available later so I'll wait and see. By the way I am loaded. I can recruit at a level that my competitors dream of. Some of my fans are incontinent little scroats with psycho-analytically interesting disorders but I coudn't give a flying **** about them because they're special".

But if Y wont sell X then it means we have missed out on a,b,c,d,e,f etc.........

Or does it mean that Y knows AP will come back with a better offer to sell X.

 

There are two aspects to this, the club and the player. With the player being the more difficult aspect to overcome. We are looking for players who would perform well in the CCC, by definition then those players will be attracted to CCC sides and more importantly, those players would prefer to play in the CCC rather than League 1. Whilst it is early days, most players will hold on for their perfect match. Later on their options will become limited and Saints then become serious contenders. Against this you have to balance the option of loan players, where it is far easier get greater quality, if prepared to pay the higher wages of clubs above us. I don't believe many other clubs (if one) in this league are prepared to pay CCC standard salaries for loans, Saints can.

 

As for the club, money is the only determinating factor here. The more you are prepared to pay, the quicker you get the player.

[Fan The Flames]

Maybe we have identified players but wont pay the going rate.

[Gorgiesaint]

There are players currently available and some of them would be OK, and we could get them here, but as pre-season progresses and clubs assess their squads and who they want to keep other, possibly better players may become available. If we have already pitched in and bought from the current pool we would then be kicking ourselves because we would not then be in a position to get the better player. Simples.

 

Makes perfect sense, we have perfectly good team to start the season with, we need some strengthening and we will do that when the full extent of availability of players is known in a couple of weeks or so, we aren't going to go out and buy now just for the sake of it and because the "fans" expect us to.

 

This.

 

Take Man City for example - they are now talking about selling SWP, Nigel de Jong & Steven Ireland. They will move to other PL squads - meaning other players there move down the pecking order, which frees a squad players or two to be sold to NPC clubs, which in turn frees players in their squads which is where we come in. (possibly).

[krissyboy31]

As for the club, money is the only determinating factor here. The more you are prepared to pay, the quicker you get the player.

 

But if the club is not in the best financial position and are desperate to sell, the closer we get to the transfer window closing, the less they are likely to accept.

[VectisSaint]

This.

 

Take Man City for example - they are now talking about selling SWP, Nigel de Jong & Steven Ireland. They will move to other PL squads - meaning other players there move down the pecking order, which frees a squad players or two to be sold to NPC clubs, which in turn frees players in their squads which is where we come in. (possibly).

Exactly. I see Man City have also said Bridge is for sale. Now I'm not stupid enough to suggest that Bridger would come back, but here is good example to illustrate the position. We pitched in early and bought Dickson, now Bridge is available. Is Dickson still the best out there, no, but we have more than enough LBs so we won't bid for Bridge now. AP is being very sensible. He knows he can buy quality, but wants the chance of buying the best quality, rather than make-dos. Some other posters here would rather get in now and buy adequate rather than top class. Plain stupid when we don't need to show our hand and also have a perfectly good 1st XI with which to start the season. It is 5 weeks until the transfer window closes.

[Legod Third Coming]

Sorry legod, completely disagree. Where does pardew state we are haggling over a couple of hundred thousand. Read what has been written. He has identified good players but thinks there is a chance of even better ones, so is being patient.

 

If that is the case, I think it's the right way to go.

 

Sorry Barry. Either he knows who he wants or he doesn't. If he does, buy them now.

 

We are not a club laundering money for a gun runner. We are a club on a sound footing looking to win this league, and the next league. Patience ten days from the first game is just wasting time...

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Sorry Barry. Either he knows who he wants or he doesn't. If he does, buy them now.

 

but they may not be available now!

[benjii]

Sorry Barry. Either he knows who he wants or he doesn't. If he does, buy them now.

 

 

Yeah, just but them. Simple as that. There are no other intervening factors. Buy them. That easy.

[SNSUN]

He means, "I would like X...

 

Club Y won't sell X at the moment.

 

I don't want to buy W if X becomes available later so I'll wait and see. By the way I am loaded. I can recruit at a level that my competitors dream of. Some of my fans are incontinent little scroats with psycho-analytically interesting disorders but I coudn't give a flying **** about them because they're special".

 

Would "X" be the first Saints player with an "X" in his name? :-)

[Legod Third Coming]

Yeah, just but them. Simple as that. There are no other intervening factors. Buy them. That easy.

 

Exactly. If you know who they are, ask a price and pay it. Simples.

Anything else is just wasting time - and if we don't hit the ground running then we'll all be blaming these transfer delays....

[Legod Third Coming]

but they may not be available now!

 

Everyone is available.

[S-Clarke]

I disagree with you here Legod, it's an attitude like that which will run clubs into meltdown.

 

I'd much prefer to be sensible and pay what a player is worth than over the odds just to get the deal closed. All clubs value their players above their true sale value at this time of the season, things change as we get closer to the end of the window.

[Legod Third Coming]

I disagree with you here Legod, it's an attitude like that which will run clubs into meltdown.

 

I'd much prefer to be sensible and pay what a player is worth than over the odds just to get the deal closed. All clubs value their players above their true sale value at this time of the season, things change as we get closer to the end of the window.

 

So you wait six games into the season to save what £100k?? And the games that slip by in the interim? What cost them??

[VectisSaint]

Everyone is available.

Thank feck you are not running the club. Lets just spunk all our money on whoever is available now and potentially miss better options that may come along in the next 5 weeks. We aren't desparate for players, we already have the best 1st XI in the League, we need a few additions to give us some strength in depth, there is no need to buy right now, no need to panic.

Not everyone is available, you can't just go to a club and say we want X, here's our money job done. It only works like that in games that 5 year olds play on games consoles (I assume you are a bit more than 5, but then again I've been wrong before). This is the real world of football, there are 91 other clubs in this country alone competing for the best players, we don't have some God-given right to buy who we want, it is often a long-drawn out affair, with bluff and counter-bluff.

[Barry the Badger]

So you wait six games into the season to save what £100k?? And the games that slip by in the interim? What cost them??

 

Very easy to say when it's not your money. We may be well off for this league but that doesn't mean we should just throw money around left, right and centre.

 

Aside from the fact that you have no idea what the figures involved are, I think the fact that you are suggesting we pay an extra £100'000 to get a player a few weeks earlier is complete lunacy.

[up and away]

Sorry Barry. Either he knows who he wants or he doesn't. If he does, buy them now.

 

We are not a club laundering money for a gun runner. We are a club on a sound footing looking to win this league, and the next league. Patience ten days from the first game is just wasting time...

 

Just not as simple as that. There could well be players that don't appear on our radar at present that we would love to have. Unless you have players you are virtually guaranteed to be a big improvement, it could well be wise to wait. Especially if you have a fall back position with loans or alternatives.

[Legod Third Coming]

Thank feck you are not running the club. Lets just spunk all our money on whoever is available now and potentially miss better options that may come along in the next 5 weeks. We aren't desparate for players, we already have the best 1st XI in the League, we need a few additions to give us some strength in depth, there is no need to buy right now, no need to panic.

Not everyone is available, you can't just go to a club and say we want X, here's our money job done. It only works like that in games that 5 year olds play on games consoles (I assume you are a bit more than 5, but then again I've been wrong before). This is the real world of football, there are 91 other clubs in this country alone competing for the best players, we don't have some God-given right to buy who we want, it is often a long-drawn out affair, with bluff and counter-bluff.

 

Not what I said at all. If we know who we want buy them. Oh sorry, are Chelsea in danger of going bust or do they have a trophy cabinet full of silverware...

[Legod Third Coming]

Just not as simple as that. There could well be players that don't appear on our radar at present that we would love to have. Unless you have players you are virtually guaranteed to be a big improvement, it could well be wise to wait. Especially if you have a fall back position with loans or alternatives.

 

What are we waiting for? If we have a player we need, we need him. If not, let's not bother. But this we could have x player for x amount or y player for y amount is all cobblers. We should surely be buying players to win the league. Pardew has a list of players he wants, so buy them. And buy them soon so they are not still bedding in during October... No other club is in the position we are. We have never been in this position before and some of you need to wise up to it.

[trousers]

we already have the best 1st XI in the League

 

Source?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

AP says "We've been watching the market, there's not been much movement and we are trying not to pitch in too early as a better player may come available and we miss him. It's about timing, the fans shouldn't get too concerned, I know they are waiting for us to pitch in, but hopefully we will do that in the next few weeks when a lot of managers will be doing the same thing."

 

Someone please explain to me how this works?

 

Am I right in saying that AP has noted his targets and he will wait for that target to become available for the price we think he is worth and also given the other team a chance to bring in a replacement?

 

or does it mean that there is nothing worth going for at the moment until the other team decide to give us a nudge to make an offer as they have decided to sell there best player because they then can bring in 3 more players for that fee?

 

or finally does he mean, I've not had a chance to scout for players or even seen how my current team will play as I just can't remember much from the last season? :-)

 

 

PS I know when someone says we have 5 million to spend on players means that AP has to include signing on fees and wages in that figure, this would suggests he could bring in 2 x 1 million players and a 500k one too which would just about cover it.

 

I think it says "I don't know who out there is any good, so I'll wait until I hear who some other managers are after, and then maybe I'll try for the same player(s)".

Cortese obviously is having "good business" training sessions, and last week they were doing "BULL MARKETS".

[Chez]

Maybe we have identified players but wont pay the going rate.

maybe the clubs are taking the **** and not requesting the `going rate'.

[hutch]

Source?

alpine_saint, this morning in the AP School Report thread.

[Barry the Badger]

What are we waiting for? If we have a player we need, we need him. If not, let's not bother. But this we could have x player for x amount or y player for y amount is all cobblers. We should surely be buying players to win the league. Pardew has a list of players he wants, so buy them. And buy them soon so they are not still bedding in during October... No other club is in the position we are. We have never been in this position before and some of you need to wise up to it.

 

Meanwhile in the real world.... if clubs are only prepared to sell (the players we want) for silly money, on account of our comparative wealth, it is advisable to hang on and see if their prices drop as time ticks on towards the deadline. To just panic and meet ridiculous valuations would be terrible business practice.

 

But again, we are just speculating and really have no idea why the players we want are not available to us at present.

[S-Clarke]

Hopkins post in the lallana thread has everything you need to know about how it works.

[Legod Third Coming]

Meanwhile in the real world.... if clubs are only prepared to sell (the players we want) for silly money, on account of our comparative wealth, it is advisable to hang on and see if their prices drop as time ticks on towards the deadline. To just panic and meet ridiculous valuations would be terrible business practice.

 

But again, we are just speculating and really have no idea why the players we want are not available to us at present.

 

Years ago this might be how it worked, but there will be no 'high' valuations now. The market is dead and we are about the only club with money. The valuations won't fall as time ticks by. Because those clubs need money now not in four weeks' time.

 

In my view this is very simple. We either need player A or we don't. If we do, buy him. If we don't why were we in for him?

 

We are a top top side. We need only the best players who can make us better - who can deliver us a guaranteed league title. Are the hundreds of such players available? Probably not. So buy the ones we need now to allow time for them to hit the season running.

 

We are a Chelsea in this situation. We will overpay because we can. This is just life.

 

Of course there will be haggling, there always is. But we make an offer then negotiate. Why the wait?

 

What do you think will happen while we wait?

 

(And the same people who laud this softly, softly approach will be the same ones moaning like buggery if we get to September and are mid-table...)

[kpturner]

Years ago this might be how it worked, but there will be no 'high' valuations now. The market is dead and we are about the only club with money. The valuations won't fall as time ticks by. Because those clubs need money now not in four weeks' time.

 

In my view this is very simple. We either need player A or we don't. If we do, buy him. If we don't why were we in for him?

 

We are a top top side. We need only the best players who can make us better - who can deliver us a guaranteed league title. Are the hundreds of such players available? Probably not. So buy the ones we need now to allow time for them to hit the season running.

 

We are a Chelsea in this situation. We will overpay because we can. This is just life.

 

Of course there will be haggling, there always is. But we make an offer then negotiate. Why the wait?

 

What do you think will happen while we wait?

 

(And the same people who laud this softly, softly approach will be the same ones moaning like buggery if we get to September and are mid-table...)

 

"We are a top top side"?! "We overpay because we can"?! Are you delusional or something. Have you forgotten that we were nearly out of business this time last year? Do you really think such a largess attitute is appropriate....because I don't!

[eelpie]

AP says "We've been watching the market, there's not been much movement and we are trying not to pitch in too early as a better player may come available and we miss him. It's about timing, the fans shouldn't get too concerned, I know they are waiting for us to pitch in, but hopefully we will do that in the next few weeks when a lot of managers will be doing the same thing."

 

Someone please explain to me how this works?

 

Am I right in saying that AP has noted his targets and he will wait for that target to become available for the price we think he is worth and also given the other team a chance to bring in a replacement?

 

or does it mean that there is nothing worth going for at the moment until the other team decide to give us a nudge to make an offer as they have decided to sell there best player because they then can bring in 3 more players for that fee?

 

or finally does he mean, I've not had a chance to scout for players or even seen how my current team will play as I just can't remember much from the last season? :-)

 

 

PS I know when someone says we have 5 million to spend on players means that AP has to include signing on fees and wages in that figure, this would suggests he could bring in 2 x 1 million players and a 500k one too which would just about cover it.

 

You said it there

[Barry the Badger]

I'm sorry legod. I just don't buy your reasoning that because we have a bit of money now, we should be prepared to overpay.

 

Teams may need money now as you say, but you can be sure that come the end of august many will be panicking and may well be prepared to accept less. This is the reason so much business is done on deadline day, and just because we have a few quid now does not make us immune to that.