Window Cleaner Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Well thats not quite true is it. As Adkins dropped Davis a couple of times and only brought him back when the other two f*****d up. How many points do you think Davis cost us this season out of interest? He was made to drop Davis,anyway I give up, this is why Adkins was sacked, believe it or not I just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Well it all comes back to who's decision it was to spend the vast majority of it on forwards instead of defenders/keepers. That's the crux of the whole situation at every club... Our top scorer came off the bench to score within three minutes against the European Champions and this was heralded as a success. MLT tweeted (and many on here agreed) "always start your best players" Then when the manager is fired for one who might do exactly that, he is up in arms... Now, was it Adkins choice to start with Rickie? Was he under pressure to play a younger man because that's what the Chairman prefers? Who knows. You make a very valid point. Was the manager being allowed to manage?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Garbage. Norwich haven't spent anything like we did. West Brom have been up forever and still have not spent more than about five mil on a single player. We have spent money like a lottery winner on crack. Leave out Ramirez and it's a lot closer. Norwich at least made wholesale changes after promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 I'm a businessman in the R&D sector and I can tell you, every new product is a punt. You just make your choice based on the best information to hand. Like judging a manager on the results of his team, not on the opinion of a crowd of clueless football fans, whose business and money is not on the line... I think you are over simplifying. Recruiting hiring and firing football managers is very different to backing a product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 That's the crux of the whole situation at every club... Our top scorer came off the bench to score within three minutes against the European Champions and this was heralded as a success. MLT tweeted (and many on here agreed) "always start your best players" Then when the manager is fired for one who might do exactly that, he is up in arms... Now, was it Adkins choice to start with Rickie? Was he under pressure to play a younger man because that's what the Chairman prefers? Who knows. You make a very valid point. Was the manager being allowed to manage?? You think it's the same at Man Utd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 ...and a reminder. It's a results driven business: Appalling... By the end of the season he probably would've been about Dave Jones points per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 £30m doesn't begin to buy you a team of Premiership players. It does "begin" to do exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 He was made to drop Davis,anyway I give up, this is why Adkins was sacked, believe it or not I just don't care. That's fair enough. You think Adkins was sacked because he stuck by Davis, despite the fact he dropped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 You think it's the same at Man Utd? No, but I'm sure if we were top of the league Adkins would be granted similar freedoms to Fergie... But don't think Fergie chose to sell Ronaldo - he was sold to meet an £80m debt payment! The point I'm making is that every club has a Chairman and manager who work together to secure players and be successful, within a budget. The fact that the Russian buys players didn't stop them being Champions of Europe. This is the new football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Poor adkins has to leave his compton home now and move up north again. Could never bring the family down properly as was never secure enough in his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guided Missile Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 I think you are over simplifying. Recruiting hiring and firing football managers is very different to backing a product.The outcome of hiring or firing a manager is not a certainty. It's a punt. I think you get the point. No businessman ever deals in certainties, not even when it comes to paying taxes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Poor adkins has to leave his compton home now and move up north again. Could never bring the family down properly as was never secure enough in his job. Listen, don't feel too much sympathy. The guy was plucked from S****horpe and given a chance to spend £45m on footballers over two and half seasons during which he showcased his career brilliantly. He will have doubled/trebled/quadrupled?? his value in the past 24 months and is now a hot property in football management. I will always be grateful to him and I bet you he is grateful to Southampton and Cortese too. He is the type of guy who will use this, learn from it and benefit from it. He is a top, top human being. The message he left at the training ground was pure and utter class. Class you cannot buy. But he's a football manager and knows the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 no his family never moved down I do not know but he is seen frequently in Romsey with his wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 One thing that I think he will appreciate is the last goal ever scored under his stewardship. It was a pure, utterly brilliant, football goal. Not a header from a free kick. Not a scuffed shot, not a penalty, not a bouncing bobble. It was a football move with pace and style and joy, crafted, and despatched with the exquisite precision of an artisan. It was, in my view, the most perfect epitaph for Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 It does "begin" to do exactly that. Oh, all right, but it doesn't get you very far. Especially if you spend half of it on one player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 ...and a reminder. It's a results driven business: Appalling... That is meaningless, only one manager from that list took Saints up two leagues and had to stabilise a newly promoted side in the Premier League. The rest inherited a top flight side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 That is meaningless, only one manager from that list took Saints up two leagues and had to stabilise a newly promoted side in the Premier League. The rest inherited a top flight side. Exactly, the better analysis is simply win ratio. And he is our best manager on that basis by a mile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 The outcome of hiring or firing a manager is not a certainty. It's a punt. I think you get the point. No businessman ever deals in certainties, not even when it comes to paying taxes... No certainties. All the more reason to manage the risk. On the face of it the risk has increased with this appointment. Needless to say I hope I'm wrong. Taxes fair point. much easier for some to manage - amazon, Starbucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 I do not know but he is seen frequently in Romsey with his wife. His family moved down straight away and live just south of Winchester. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they stay in the area like a fair few managers from the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Listen, don't feel too much sympathy. The guy was plucked from S****horpe and given a chance to spend £45m on footballers over two and half seasons during which he showcased his career brilliantly. He will have doubled/trebled/quadrupled?? his value in the past 24 months and is now a hot property in football management. I will always be grateful to him and I bet you he is grateful to Southampton and Cortese too. He is the type of guy who will use this, learn from it and benefit from it. He is a top, top human being. The message he left at the training ground was pure and utter class. Class you cannot buy. But he's a football manager and knows the game. Yes well the game used to be do a bad job excpect the sack....it seems in the last few years the game has changed so that even doing a good job doesn't protect a manager from chairmen/owners living in fantasy worlds.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 No, but I'm sure if we were top of the league Adkins would be granted similar freedoms to Fergie... But don't think Fergie chose to sell Ronaldo - he was sold to meet an £80m debt payment! The point I'm making is that every club has a Chairman and manager who work together to secure players and be successful, within a budget. The fact that the Russian buys players didn't stop them being Champions of Europe. This is the new football. So its not the same at every club then. Fergie runs the show at United. Same as Wenger at Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyin Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 The word 'laughing stock' was used by MLT, qote in the media & is still being banded about on social media. I haven't heard anyone laughing, taking the p1ss or owt like that. Talked to Chelsea, Forest, Stoke, 'pool, ManU & Pompey mates and to a man just simply shocked as we are, none of this laughingstock in evidence at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raynesparksaint Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 I was as shocked as anyone, and am very disappointed with the treatment of Nigel, the questionable timing, the morals of Cortese and all the rest of it. However, it really sickens me to read Saints fans saying they hope to see the club relegated, as if this will somehow prove a point and teach us all a lesson. Why should the players and fans, who have invested so much into our success, suffer more as a result of the actions of one man. Criticise the individuals at fault by all means, but if you are a supporter of the club then it should be through thick and thin, and if you wish ill on us then in my view you cannot truly call yourself a Saints fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 The word 'laughing stock' was used by MLT, qote in the media & is still being banded about on social media. I haven't heard anyone laughing, taking the p1ss or owt like that. Talked to Chelsea, Forest, Stoke, 'pool, ManU & Pompey mates and to a man just simply shocked as we are, none of this laughingstock in evidence at all. Correct......most of these clubs have lived through more trauma than we will ever have. We will be ok and mid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 So its not the same at every club then. Fergie runs the show at United. Same as Wenger at Arsenal. Not quite true, but I think I know your point. Fergie runs the footballing show, not the business show. Fergie didn't list the company, Fergie doesn't run the entire backoffice, Fergie doesn't manage the clubs debts, he works for and with the board. He is an employee. He has had to sell players because the company insisted, I'm sure he has failed to sign players because the board refused to pay out for them. The difference is he (and Wenger, in the case of Arsenal) are free to identify their own signings and then let the board work the rest out, if at all possible. That's not the case with Chelsea and that hasn't harmed them. It doesn't seem to be the case with us, but it hasn't harmed us either. So long as it's working and we're moving forward, I won't lose too much sleep over who is signing players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotsaintsfan Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 I know all us saints fans will be feeling pretty angry and annoyed with Nigel's sacking, but we must give our new manger 100% support after all none of this is his fault. It might turn out to be a blessing or a complete shambles, only time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 19 January, 2013 Share Posted 19 January, 2013 Not quite true, but I think I know your point. Fergie runs the footballing show, not the business show. Fergie didn't list the company, Fergie doesn't run the entire backoffice, Fergie doesn't manage the clubs debts, he works for and with the board. He is an employee. He has had to sell players because the company insisted, I'm sure he has failed to sign players because the board refused to pay out for them. The difference is he (and Wenger, in the case of Arsenal) are free to identify their own signings and then let the board work the rest out, if at all possible. That's not the case with Chelsea and that hasn't harmed them. It doesn't seem to be the case with us, but it hasn't harmed us either. So long as it's working and we're moving forward, I won't lose too much sleep over who is signing players.Yeah, cheers for that, I didn't realise Ferguson didn't do the accounting at Old Trafford And it potentially hasn't worked at Saints, so I assume you are losing quite a bit of sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 I don't think any football fan from any club will ever get over the way this was done. But, one interesting comment was made yesterday by a Bolton fan. Would you lot have still felt so outraged if he had been replaced by Guardiola or Mourinho? My answer was it could have been done in a better way. And he said - How? How can you sack someone in a nice way. Damn him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 haven't read all 18 pages but just seen this table...considering our squad I feel is one of the better ones we've had its not THAT impressive reading for NA.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 I remember sturrock being ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAR Boy Saint Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 So on the basis of this, NC should have appointed Wurzel Gummage again then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 haven't read all 18 pages but just seen this table...considering our squad I feel is one of the better ones we've had its not THAT impressive reading for NA.. This is crazy. We were a premiership team for decades under most of the others in this table. The whole squad was a premiership squad. Do I really need to state Le Tiss, Svensson x 2, Shearer, Beattie, Pahars, Niemi, Flowers, Wallace x 2(3), Bridge etc etc? We are still carrying League 1 and Championship players now. This comparison is nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 This is crazy. We were a premiership team for decades under most of the others in this table. The whole squad was a premiership squad. Do I really need to state Le Tiss, Svensson x 2, Shearer, Beattie, Pahars, Niemi, Flowers, Wallace x 2(3), Bridge etc etc? We are still carrying League 1 and Championship players now. This comparison is nuts You're right, it is completely barmy. Trying to extrapolate something meaningful from such a disparate set of figures and then claiming the result as statistical evidence to back up an argument is looney. Apart from the different number of matches that were played under each manager, ranging from 2 to 95, the time span of the comparison is over a 22 year period. Football has changed significantly, especially regarding the wealth of the people owning the glory teams and the ridiculous sums of money they are able to spend on World stars, instead of the mostly British players that made up the teams when Branfoot was here. Frankly I'm surprised that somebody like GM can accept these so called statistics as being the basis for an argument in support of dismissing Adkins. If I could be bothered, I would make a table comparing the stats of all of those managers when they managed lesser teams before they came here and then see how they stack up against Adkins' record in the lower divisions. It would be just as pointless and prove nothing more than this does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 You're right, it is completely barmy. Trying to extrapolate something meaningful from such a disparate set of figures and then claiming the result as statistical evidence to back up an argument is looney. Apart from the different number of matches that were played under each manager, ranging from 2 to 95, the time span of the comparison is over a 22 year period. Football has changed significantly, especially regarding the wealth of the people owning the glory teams and the ridiculous sums of money they are able to spend on World stars, instead of the mostly British players that made up the teams when Branfoot was here. Frankly I'm surprised that somebody like GM can accept these so called statistics as being the basis for an argument in support of dismissing Adkins. If I could be bothered, I would make a table comparing the stats of all of those managers when they managed lesser teams before they came here and then see how they stack up against Adkins' record in the lower divisions. It would be just as pointless and prove nothing more than this does. Exactly this. Can't believe I'm agreeing with everything you're saying on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 This is crazy. We were a premiership team for decades under most of the others in this table. The whole squad was a premiership squad. Do I really need to state Le Tiss, Svensson x 2, Shearer, Beattie, Pahars, Niemi, Flowers, Wallace x 2(3), Bridge etc etc? We are still carrying League 1 and Championship players now. This comparison is nuts Exactly, to me that table sort of counters their argument. Also the general standard of the opposition squads (and not just the big teams) is much, much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan17 Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 About to discuss it on Sky Sports 1 for those that are interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Took a little while to write, luckily my anger has lasted a few days: http://notplayedonpaper.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/adkins-cortese-and-why-we-keep-coming.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 This is crazy. We were a premiership team for decades under most of the others in this table. The whole squad was a premiership squad. Do I really need to state Le Tiss, Svensson x 2, Shearer, Beattie, Pahars, Niemi, Flowers, Wallace x 2(3), Bridge etc etc? We are still carrying League 1 and Championship players now. This comparison is nuts Ah, the League One standard players that hammered a lot of Championship teams? Or the ones acquitting themselves well in the Prem now. Can you let me know when Rickie Lambert is no longer a League One player? Ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Yeah, cheers for that, I didn't realise Ferguson didn't do the accounting at Old Trafford And it potentially hasn't worked at Saints, so I assume you are losing quite a bit of sleep. 22nd in League One to 15th in the Premiership isn't working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 22nd in League One to 15th in the Premiership isn't working? You seen some of the articles published last night about the confusion and divisions in us executing our transfer policy? Or the reports that Adkins was sacked due to not getting on with NC? If you think that is "working", then crack on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 You seen some of the articles published last night about the confusion and divisions in us executing our transfer policy? Or the reports that Adkins was sacked due to not getting on with NC? If you think that is "working", then crack on. well, it kind of is...we are where we are...........not that I agree but it is what it is and we are 15th in the prem..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 You seen some of the articles published last night about the confusion and divisions in us executing our transfer policy? Or the reports that Adkins was sacked due to not getting on with NC? If you think that is "working", then crack on. Right. You read some nonsense in the press and that's what you put your faith in? I've actually seen us come from 22nd in League One to 15th in the Premiership. I wonder did you notice spending £12m on Gaston? £7m on Jay-Rod? £4m on a Vorren? This is confusing for some in the media is it?? I'll tell you what's confusing them - they can't believe that plucky little Saints, everyone's favourite underdog, is now actually a football club with money on the rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Right. You read some nonsense in the press and that's what you put your faith in? I've actually seen us come from 22nd in League One to 15th in the Premiership. I wonder did you notice spending £12m on Gaston? £7m on Jay-Rod? £4m on a Vorren? This is confusing for some in the media is it?? I'll tell you what's confusing them - they can't believe that plucky little Saints, everyone's favourite underdog, is now actually a football club with money on the rise. Thank god we've stayed up. I was worried we were in a relegation fight. Well we're not. We're going up up up. We've signed a Norwegian or something. We're on the rise. We're loaded. Take that evil media!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 (edited) I'll tell you what's confusing them - they can't believe that plucky little Saints, everyone's favourite underdog, is now actually a football club with money on the rise. If only that was the facts. The true picture is that this season there has been very little inward investment to fund the Club and the Club has borrowed a very large sum £20m+ backed by next seasons ticket sales. If we did go down at the end of this season we may have a dangerous financial meltdown. Edited 20 January, 2013 by Topcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Took a little while to write, luckily my anger has lasted a few days: http://notplayedonpaper.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/adkins-cortese-and-why-we-keep-coming.html Well said - excellent article. I tried to post a reply but it wouldn't let me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Right. You read some nonsense in the press and that's what you put your faith in? I've actually seen us come from 22nd in League One to 15th in the Premiership. I wonder did you notice spending £12m on Gaston? £7m on Jay-Rod? £4m on a Vorren? This is confusing for some in the media is it?? I'll tell you what's confusing them - they can't believe that plucky little Saints, everyone's favourite underdog, is now actually a football club with money on the rise. Ah, I forget you're one of these posters that dismisses anything in the media they don't like as 'nonsense' ha ha! It clearly wasn't working for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 If this has been posted before my apologies otherwise great stuff. Give it some Nigel! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTciSTn1o7E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensfcno1 Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 No one except Cortese and Adkins and maybe a few players know the real reasons for this decision. However, if we were to believe Cortese that it was due to Adkins not being able to tale us where he wants to take us, then I dont see if that is a problem. Maybe Adkins and Cortese had an agreement about what aims they had this season, and what calibre of players they woudl like to bring in this and the last transfer window. If neither of these were acheived (however unrealistic we from the outside may believe them to be) then adkins has not reached his agreed targets, irrespective of how good others may feel he has done and how they rank his and the clubs recent acheivements. Im not saying this is correct, but to me this is an exceptable explanation to the current situation and recent actions. I hope that Cortese is proven correct to have acted now. Hopfully we can all be celebrating the type of success that Cortese and the Liebher legacy dreams of. Lets get behind the team and the club and the new manager, if and when it goes wrong then we question Cortese's decisions, but remember how most reacted to Pardew's dismisal and some quetions around Adkins appointment. Cortese so far has made all the correct decisions for the clubs current situations ever since he persuaded St Markus to part with his money to save the club from oblivion. COYR!!!!!! Together we stand, rise and Fall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Well, one thing is for sure. I've had more conversations with other fans (and the media guys here for the golf) about Saints in the past two days than I have in the past 5 years. Total agreement that this was very bad/wrong from every single one of them agreement that he had got us playing some great football and agreeing with any "protest" we may call apart from ONE item - FFS don't do the white hankie thing tomorrow night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 20 January, 2013 Share Posted 20 January, 2013 Ah, I forget you're one of these posters that dismisses anything in the media they don't like as 'nonsense' ha ha! It clearly wasn't working for us. Whatever Henry Winter claims, fans want to win. How many people have sympathy today for the way Alan Pardew was treated? How many are gutted that Cortese sacked him? How many wish Adkins hadn't been appointed? Answer - NONE. Now go to Stamford Bridge and ask them how many are cheesed off with the Russian having just beaten Arsenal... Football fans are a pathetic bunch. We believe in loyalty when it suits us, business when it suits us, money when it suits us, success when it suits us... You had a choice. No club or one run to be successful in the way the Chairman chooses. Henry Winter believes football fans are worth more - that they have some divine right to decide how their club is run, how they feel about it, respresentation on the board. Ridiculous. It's a sport and a business. And both are about success. I am really sad to see Nigel Adkins go. I loved him and his style. But you cannot argue the Chairman doesn't know what he's doing. He's doing it very well. And no amount of old school football wailing will stop him. And thank feck for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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