Tactically inept?

[Bailey]

Just have 2 quick points I'd like to make . . .

 

First off, why did Poortvliet play Holmes out wide right and BWP wide left? There was just no balance and both players kept wanting to cut inside on their stronger foot. The Donny defenders were quick to work this out and suitably doubled up on Holmes and BWP, resulting in the majority of our attacks coming to nothing. There was no real width and I was of the impression that width plays a MAJOR part to this 'Dutch' formation if it's to be a success?

 

Secondly, I find it very frustrating that Poortvliet didn't make his tactical instructions clear to the players when switching to 3 at the back. When he sent on Lallana and Smith, he should have made it clear to all the players that he was changing formation and everyone should have known what was being asked of them. It took the lads a good few minutes before they knew what was going on and where they were being asked to play. Why is this? Surely this is basic stuff? Being unorganised like this could quite easily result in conceeding and would be unforgivable IMO.

 

Anyway, rant over. Thoughts?

[70's Mike]

totally agree the man knows nothing

[LGTL]

Yep spot on with both points. Just two more awful decisions by JP to add to his already vast number.

[70's Mike]

Yep spot on with both points. Just two more awful decisions by JP to add to his already vast number.

 

 

and that is what is ****ing me off, nothing to do with money just massive contradictions in his policies.

 

play with width but then make that impossible by putting the wingers on the wrong side

[hypochondriac]

The funniest thing for me was one point in the first half when Donny broke in the first half and we had every attacking player on the pitch in their penalty area. We had no midfield at all and just the four defenders and the keeper to cover the rest of the pitch! It was very funny.

[miserableoldgit]

Just have 2 quick points I'd like to make . . .

 

First off, why did Poortvliet play Holmes out wide right and BWP wide left? There was just no balance and both players kept wanting to cut inside on their stronger foot. The Donny defenders were quick to work this out and suitably doubled up on Holmes and BWP, resulting in the majority of our attacks coming to nothing. There was no real width and I was of the impression that width plays a MAJOR part to this 'Dutch' formation if it's to be a success?

Secondly, I find it very frustrating that Poortvliet didn't make his tactical instructions clear to the players when switching to 3 at the back. When he sent on Lallana and Smith, he should have made it clear to all the players that he was changing formation and everyone should have known what was being asked of them. It took the lads a good few minutes before they knew what was going on and where they were being asked to play. Why is this? Surely this is basic stuff? Being unorganised like this could quite easily result in conceeding and would be unforgivable IMO.

 

Anyway, rant over. Thoughts?

 

Random Thoughts:-

1) Why were Donny able to PLAY the ball out of defence whilst all we could do when we were under pressure was hoof the ball out, invariabely to a Donny player? There were 2 or 3 times when they were able to go from their box to our box without a Saints player making a challenge.

2) Why do we have no "movement" in the opposition box. Our "forwards" seem to be coached by Madame Tussaud.

3) Why take off a central defender (who was having a decent game) when we were 1 down and put on a winger and a midfielder? Our defence is hardly rock-solid at the best of times, but to play with a 3 man defence when chasing the game seems naive at best.

4) On paper, this was probably close to being Jans best team. Saints-1 Donny-2.

5) Why are we not able to change to "Route One" when needed?

6) Why can we not pass to our own players when we are playing the "Total Football" passing game?

I could go on but I am losing the will to live!:mad:

 

Oh Yes. 7) Why do our players look so unfit compared to everyone elses?

Edited 17 January, 2009 by miserableoldgit

[Teddy Nutkins]

Not quite sure what to say about the double switch after went 1-0 down.I would have been upset if he had not reacted but to take off Perry was as bizarre as anything Burley ever did.Do the right thing Jan, resign,you are not up to it...........sorry.

[Stu Man Do]

Just to make a point on Holmes/ BWP Dave Armstrong was saying he could see Holmes asking to be switched wings when he realised it wasnt working and was given a big thumbs down to this idea. JP seems like a decent bloke but hes suffering burleyitus, several people have told me they didnt see him in the technical area very much 2nd half is this true? If so remind anyone else of Burleys hiding vs Watford last Jan when he realised he no longer gave a fook?

[Rebel]

playing wingers on the wrong side

 

playing midfielders at full back with no protection in front of them

 

not playing a holding midfielder to protect a shaky defence

 

putting square pegs in round holes

 

not having a plan B

[miserableoldgit]

playing wingers on the wrong side

 

playing midfielders at full back with no protection in front of them

 

not playing a holding midfielder to protect a shaky defence

 

putting square pegs in round holes

 

not having a plan B

We are not talking about George Burley. We are talking about Jan...........Oh, sorry !

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

The funniest thing for me was one point in the first half when Donny broke in the first half and we had every attacking player on the pitch in their penalty area. We had no midfield at all and just the four defenders and the keeper to cover the rest of the pitch! It was very funny.

 

The positioning of Schneiderlin and Surman in the midfield was particularly poor. There was no cohesion between the 2 of them; Schneiderlin was too deep and was almost an auxiliary centre-half at times, which left Surman isolated. We need the midfield general we thought Wotton would be and fast.

[team-saint]

he has been tactically inept all season :mad:

[Thedelldays]

been saying he is tactically inept all season and I hardly go.....

[wiltshiresaint]

Not quite sure what to say about the double switch after went 1-0 down.I would have been upset if he had not reacted but to take off Perry was as bizarre as anything Burley ever did.Do the right thing Jan, resign,you are not up to it...........sorry.

 

Oh no - I think it was far more bizarre than anything Burley ever did (at least it felt like he had a plan!)

 

Anyway, the midfield today was appalling - half the time too deep, the other half far too far forward.

[um pahars]

JP seems like a decent bloke but hes suffering burleyitus, several people have told me they didnt see him in the technical area very much 2nd half is this true? If so remind anyone else of Burleys hiding vs Watford last Jan when he realised he no longer gave a fook?

 

Poortvliet did not venture into the Technical Area much in the second half. And when he did, he looked shell shocked.

 

I have issues with hs motivation, signings, but today he was tactically inept and naive almost all over the pitch.

 

We lost that game just as much due to decisions off the pitch as on it.

Edited 18 January, 2009 by um pahars

[JustMike]

playing Lloyd james at all!!! awful

[Whitey Grandad]

Poortvliet did not venture into the Technical Area much in the second half. And when he did, he looked shell shocked.

 

I have issues with hs motivation, signings, but today he was tactically inept and naive almost all over the pitch.

 

We lost that game just as much due to decisions off the pitch as on it.

I agree. Even when Doncaster scored their second we still had over 10 minutes to try and get back, but this season for the first time ever I have never felt that we have the drive, commitment and belief to make an assault and try to get something out of the game. Why are we still stuck with this clown of a manager? If he is still here when we are relegated does anybody think he has what it takes to get us promoted again?

[SaintRobbie]

Just have 2 quick points I'd like to make . . .

 

First off, why did Poortvliet play Holmes out wide right and BWP wide left? There was just no balance and both players kept wanting to cut inside on their stronger foot. The Donny defenders were quick to work this out and suitably doubled up on Holmes and BWP, resulting in the majority of our attacks coming to nothing. There was no real width and I was of the impression that width plays a MAJOR part to this 'Dutch' formation if it's to be a success?

 

Secondly, I find it very frustrating that Poortvliet didn't make his tactical instructions clear to the players when switching to 3 at the back. When he sent on Lallana and Smith, he should have made it clear to all the players that he was changing formation and everyone should have known what was being asked of them. It took the lads a good few minutes before they knew what was going on and where they were being asked to play. Why is this? Surely this is basic stuff? Being unorganised like this could quite easily result in conceeding and would be unforgivable IMO.

 

Anyway, rant over. Thoughts?

 

Agree with ALL of that.

 

I would add that I am genuinely gobsmacked that he took Perry off yesterday for tactical reasons. I assumed Perry must have been injured and was genuinely shocked to find out JP was really that stupid.

[dubai_phil]

I agree. Even when Doncaster scored their second we still had over 10 minutes to try and get back, but this season for the first time ever I have never felt that we have the drive, commitment and belief to make an assault and try to get something out of the game. Why are we still stuck with this clown of a manager? If he is still here when we are relegated does anybody think he has what it takes to get us promoted again?

 

If he is still there when we get relegated do you think anybody will still be left around interested enough to notice?

 

That's the problem with depression, once it sets in you need to change many things to get back, it no longer becomes simply mind games, it needs a lot more than that.

 

Time for somebody in charge of the team who actually knows what they are doing and has seen all this sort of thing before

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Agree with ALL of that.

 

I would add that I am genuinely gobsmacked that he took Perry off yesterday for tactical reasons. I assumed Perry must have been injured and was genuinely shocked to find out JP was really that stupid.

 

Stupid sums him up pretty well actually.

 

After he made the double substitutions we got visably worse straight

away,the team were all over the place.

 

Very few of the players knew haw or where to play after that...

 

FFS Portvliet...P I S S OFF...................now

[OVER THE HILL]

Holmes had a superb chance in the first half but it was on his "wrong foot", even BWP would have done better.

[derry]

Not quite sure what to say about the double switch after went 1-0 down.I would have been upset if he had not reacted but to take off Perry was as bizarre as anything Burley ever did.Do the right thing Jan, resign,you are not up to it...........sorry.

 

We have to play players wide on the touch lines on their natural sides, it is just fundamental, apart from dead ball situations, a major proportion of goals are scored from moves initiated by wide players attacking towards the bye line.

 

Our wide men are always narrow, never go for the outside option, and when on the opposite side to play are always sucked in to the near post, instead of 20yds out on the corner of the penalty area and be able to attack the overhit cross or the back post. I think the coaching and management is poor.

 

I thought the changes were crass, Lallana looked lost in midfield but did a lovely lay off for Saganowski's goal. Schneiderlin and Surman were not playing as a pair, had no bite and easily were split. We didn't really play two banks of four and completely lost our shape in the second half.

 

I felt the only way to get at Doncaster, as soon as they went three in the middle was down the lines and we weren't able to do that. James hitting cross after cross in on the fortyfive angle was too easy for the defenders.

[derry]

It's amazing that on a football forum, threads about football are except for matchday threads poorly subscribed whilst, arguments about three tenths of fvck all go on and on.

[charliemiller]

To Answer the thread header yes he is but why ??

 

Dont shoot me but in parts I agree with the young player , one style experiment.

However it has been carried out wholesale in a manner that was only ever going to cause potential relegation.

The biggest mistake in all this is JP . He is and has consistantly shown himself to be tactically naive and very very basic in his approach. There are very simple rules which must always be considered when playing the formation he prefers.

 

If you insist in playing 1 up front you must provide width behind the single striker to pull the opponents back four away from each other if you dont you end up with the striker having two centre backs on him constantly , to ask the like of DMG to score consistantly like that is folly it will never happen.

This formation was played by Chelsea under Mourinho , its not new nor is it dutch , it worked for them because they had true width (Cole, robben ,SWP etc....) and they had a quality striker in the middle who understood his role to move , drop deep and collect to pair up with the attacking midfielders pushing through in front of a single holding player (makele) that player was Drogba .

It does work but you have to have the right ingrediants , quite frankly we at no time this season have played with any width and to expect DMG to play this correctly is ridiculous.

 

So thats the prefered total football formation ??? what about yesterday??

 

When i saw the team I thought as many did thats probably about spot on .

However here we go again , BWP and Holmes on the wrong wings .

What this does is it constricts the play by at least 30 ft on either side of the pitch because as they recieve the ball the natural instinct is to pull inside even before they have recieve the ball , look at any winger on the wrong wing he will be at least 20ft from the touchline for the whole match , you will never ever see a right footed player on the left touchline hungging the white line it never happens.

The effect that lost 50-60ft has is again the play is pushed narrow , its easy to defend and means you end up playing pretty football up to ten yards from the box at which point you run out of space. An away team is totally happy doing that standing there ground and waiting for a break , which is exactly what they are all doing . Then the narrowness of the team becomes a weakness because you are all pushing up narrow all they need to do is ping a ball with width to the touchline and they will always find a huge gap behind our full backs . Most of the goals this season at Sms have come from a break wide and a cross to the centre, not through the middle of us.

The above is also why we have won more away , its not that we are any different its that the other teams appraoch is different and it gives us a chance of breaking away at a disorganized defence and scoring.

 

So

 

The one style football through the whole club passing ethic I agree with (works at Arsenal and has done for years)

 

JP is NOT the person who should be in charge of the team.He is tactically naive .However you cant throw a team of youngsters in on there own either.

You need to do this .

 

An experienced MOBILE striker and you need true width with the full backs pairing the wingers ( Bridge and Marsden ) like .

 

An experienced hardman type midfielder

 

And a consistant centerback with Davis behind him . I short a proper back bone to the team .

 

Sadly JP and Lowe cant or wont see it

[dubai_phil]

To Answer the thread header yes he is but why ??

 

Dont shoot me but in parts I agree with the young player , one style experiment.

However it has been carried out wholesale in a manner that was only ever going to cause potential relegation.

The biggest mistake in all this is JP . He is and has consistantly shown himself to be tactically naive and very very basic in his approach. There are very simple rules which must always be considered when playing the formation he prefers.

 

If you insist in playing 1 up front you must provide width behind the single striker to pull the opponents back four away from each other if you dont you end up with the striker having two centre backs on him constantly , to ask the like of DMG to score consistantly like that is folly it will never happen.

This formation was played by Chelsea under Mourinho , its not new nor is it dutch , it worked for them because they had true width (Cole, robben ,SWP etc....) and they had a quality striker in the middle who understood his role to move , drop deep and collect to pair up with the attacking midfielders pushing through in front of a single holding player (makele) that player was Drogba .

It does work but you have to have the right ingrediants , quite frankly we at no time this season have played with any width and to expect DMG to play this correctly is ridiculous.

 

So thats the prefered total football formation ??? what about yesterday??

 

When i saw the team I thought as many did thats probably about spot on .

However here we go again , BWP and Holmes on the wrong wings .

What this does is it constricts the play by at least 30 ft on either side of the pitch because as they recieve the ball the natural instinct is to pull inside even before they have recieve the ball , look at any winger on the wrong wing he will be at least 20ft from the touchline for the whole match , you will never ever see a right footed player on the left touchline hungging the white line it never happens.

The effect that lost 50-60ft has is again the play is pushed narrow , its easy to defend and means you end up playing pretty football up to ten yards from the box at which point you run out of space. An away team is totally happy doing that standing there ground and waiting for a break , which is exactly what they are all doing . Then the narrowness of the team becomes a weakness because you are all pushing up narrow all they need to do is ping a ball with width to the touchline and they will always find a huge gap behind our full backs . Most of the goals this season at Sms have come from a break wide and a cross to the centre, not through the middle of us.

The above is also why we have won more away , its not that we are any different its that the other teams appraoch is different and it gives us a chance of breaking away at a disorganized defence and scoring.

 

So

 

The one style football through the whole club passing ethic I agree with (works at Arsenal and has done for years)

 

JP is NOT the person who should be in charge of the team.He is tactically naive .However you cant throw a team of youngsters in on there own either.

You need to do this .

 

An experienced MOBILE striker and you need true width with the full backs pairing the wingers ( Bridge and Marsden ) like .

 

An experienced hardman type midfielder

 

And a consistant centerback with Davis behind him . I short a proper back bone to the team .

 

Sadly JP and Lowe cant or wont see it

 

Sadly you must still be sober to write something sensible this evening!

 

Meanwhile for anyone who wants to REALLY know what JP SHOULD be doing tactically, just watch any videos of Liverpool this season.

 

They play 4-2-3-1 PROPERLY, and no forget the player quality issue just watch the likes of Dirk Kuyt hug the touchline and cause mayhem out WIDE

 

JP's formation yesterday was doomed to fail from the start because BOTH wide men HAD to cut inside onto their preferred foot. I can understand the logic that it would bring them closer to the one up front, but it DOESN'T work like that as CM says...

 

Width Width Width

[spyinthesky]

Did anyone hear JP's response to a post match question from Radio Solent presenter. He was asked if he had praticed 3 at the back, the system employed when Perry was taken off.

 

His initial response was to say 'Of courshse'. He then rambled on in his normal fashion and made it quite clear this was a gamble that the players had to adjust to.

 

presumably they had to sort it out themselves as JP hardly ever seems to give any direction from the line

[Graffito]

To Answer the thread header yes he is but why ??

 

Dont shoot me but in parts I agree with the young player , one style experiment.

However it has been carried out wholesale in a manner that was only ever going to cause potential relegation.

The biggest mistake in all this is JP . He is and has consistantly shown himself to be tactically naive and very very basic in his approach. There are very simple rules which must always be considered when playing the formation he prefers.

 

If you insist in playing 1 up front you must provide width behind the single striker to pull the opponents back four away from each other if you dont you end up with the striker having two centre backs on him constantly , to ask the like of DMG to score consistantly like that is folly it will never happen.

This formation was played by Chelsea under Mourinho , its not new nor is it dutch , it worked for them because they had true width (Cole, robben ,SWP etc....) and they had a quality striker in the middle who understood his role to move , drop deep and collect to pair up with the attacking midfielders pushing through in front of a single holding player (makele) that player was Drogba .

It does work but you have to have the right ingrediants , quite frankly we at no time this season have played with any width and to expect DMG to play this correctly is ridiculous.

 

So thats the prefered total football formation ??? what about yesterday??

 

When i saw the team I thought as many did thats probably about spot on .

However here we go again , BWP and Holmes on the wrong wings .

What this does is it constricts the play by at least 30 ft on either side of the pitch because as they recieve the ball the natural instinct is to pull inside even before they have recieve the ball , look at any winger on the wrong wing he will be at least 20ft from the touchline for the whole match , you will never ever see a right footed player on the left touchline hungging the white line it never happens.

The effect that lost 50-60ft has is again the play is pushed narrow , its easy to defend and means you end up playing pretty football up to ten yards from the box at which point you run out of space. An away team is totally happy doing that standing there ground and waiting for a break , which is exactly what they are all doing . Then the narrowness of the team becomes a weakness because you are all pushing up narrow all they need to do is ping a ball with width to the touchline and they will always find a huge gap behind our full backs . Most of the goals this season at Sms have come from a break wide and a cross to the centre, not through the middle of us.

The above is also why we have won more away , its not that we are any different its that the other teams appraoch is different and it gives us a chance of breaking away at a disorganized defence and scoring.

 

So

 

The one style football through the whole club passing ethic I agree with (works at Arsenal and has done for years)

 

JP is NOT the person who should be in charge of the team.He is tactically naive .However you cant throw a team of youngsters in on there own either.

You need to do this .

 

An experienced MOBILE striker and you need true width with the full backs pairing the wingers ( Bridge and Marsden ) like .

 

An experienced hardman type midfielder

 

And a consistant centerback with Davis behind him . I short a proper back bone to the team .

 

Sadly JP and Lowe cant or wont see it

 

Good critique. I agree with pretty much all of this.

[H]

The positioning of Schneiderlin and Surman in the midfield was particularly poor. There was no cohesion between the 2 of them; Schneiderlin was too deep and was almost an auxiliary centre-half at times' date=' which left Surman isolated. We need the midfield general we thought Wotton would be and fast.[/quote']

 

This is my take on it as well. I think Jan is trying to make sure two of our better players are playing in their best positions (ironically, something people moan about all the time on here!); however, yesterday at least, it was clear that we needed someone with more bite in the middle as I felt we were being carved apart in there. Wotton's not the answer ... and I'm not sure Gillett is either but surely we'd have been more solid with him there yesterday?

 

Whilst I don't agree with the 'wingers playing on the wrong wings' thing, I am told this is common in dutch football. I imagine it works there though because they have players that can actually kick a ball with both feet (and are able to keep full-backs guessing as to whether they will go inside or outside when carrying the ball) ... somebody should tell Jan that we don't!

 

And ... for christ's sake ... when on earth is somebody going to teach Adam how to shoot? I can't remember seeing him hit one shot cleanly all season?

[wild-saint]

This is my take on it as well. I think Jan is trying to make sure two of our better players are playing in their best positions (ironically, something people moan about all the time on here!); however, yesterday at least, it was clear that we needed someone with more bite in the middle as I felt we were being carved apart in there. Wotton's not the answer ... and I'm not sure Gillett is either but surely we'd have been more solid with him there yesterday?

 

Whilst I don't agree with the 'wingers playing on the wrong wings' thing, I am told this is common in dutch football. I imagine it works there though because they have players that can actually kick a ball with both feet (and are able to keep full-backs guessing as to whether they will go inside or outside when carrying the ball) ... somebody should tell Jan that we don't!

 

And ... for christ's sake ... when on earth is somebody going to teach Adam how to shoot? I can't remember seeing him hit one shot cleanly all season?

 

 

In addition to wingers on the wrong wing, they failed to swop flanks at any time during the entire match to try and mix it up a bit. This in itself is very bizarre.

[AlfredKo]

In my opinion, next game we must play Skacel as left wing and BWP/Ryan Smith as right wing. Otherwise there is no chance we can score enough goals to give something back to the loyal fans!!!

[Saint Bones]

Whilst listening to the coverage I heard the commentators say the visualy saw the players (Holmes,BWP) makes signals to the coach so that they can be changed around. Seemed a bloody ovbious change to everyone on the pitch, off the pitch and half way round the bloody world.

 

So Jan

 

Square pegs, round holes ? or just no phucking idea ?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

and that is what is ****ing me off, nothing to do with money just massive contradictions in his policies.

 

play with width but then make that impossible by putting the wingers on the wrong side

 

Ah I see you haven't yet appreciated what the objective is.

 

You play two wingers on the wrong sides, and they cut inside. He then wants the fullbacks to run outside. Then your centre-midfield players drop back in behind the fullbacks and your forwards (well, forward plus one other) drop back into midfield.

 

See the pattern yet?

 

What you get is two very nice subtly-oscillating contra-rotating circles, one on each side of the pitch. Viewed from above it looks very much like synchronised swimming.

 

It is VERY pretty, looked at the right way. Its all about perspective, you see.

All that is missing is the smiling. And it is difficult to smile with all this unpleasant singing going on, so stop it, and all will be well. You'll see.

[Ken Tone]

Just have 2 quick points I'd like to make . . .

 

First off, why did Poortvliet play Holmes out wide right and BWP wide left? There was just no balance and both players kept wanting to cut inside on their stronger foot. The Donny defenders were quick to work this out and suitably doubled up on Holmes and BWP, resulting in the majority of our attacks coming to nothing. There was no real width and I was of the impression that width plays a MAJOR part to this 'Dutch' formation if it's to be a success?

 

Secondly, I find it very frustrating that Poortvliet didn't make his tactical instructions clear to the players when switching to 3 at the back. When he sent on Lallana and Smith, he should have made it clear to all the players that he was changing formation and everyone should have known what was being asked of them. It took the lads a good few minutes before they knew what was going on and where they were being asked to play. Why is this? Surely this is basic stuff? Being unorganised like this could quite easily result in conceeding and would be unforgivable IMO.

 

Anyway, rant over. Thoughts?

 

Qute agree. Poortvliet seems a decent bloke and I *want* him to succeed. I presume he's been piggy in the middle for many of Lowe's decisions, and not fully in control, but formation surely is down to him.

 

Playing wingers on the wrong side is a reasonable thing to do occasionally. It unsettles the opposition defence and allows the winger to cut in and shoot on his best foot. But NB 'occasionally', not all the time.

 

The particular irony of saturday's formation was that even with a left-footed player alrready on the right wing, he still sent a right-footed payer to take the corners...and vice versa. Every single corner was an outswinger.

 

The move to 3-5-2 (I think?) was somewhere between bold and desperate, but it took an unforgiveable several minutes for the players to work out where they should be playing.

 

K.

[derry]

The wide men need to play on the touchline and be naturally footed for that side.

 

FFS cutting in and not going down the outside, with everybody attacking the near post there is usually about 8 to 10 players in the six yd box, it isn't rocket science why virtually all our shots are blocked.

 

We are a bloody dream to play against at SMS. Charlie Miller is absolutely spot on, front to back. Saeijs looks the part, taking Perry off cost us our base, shape, made us more vulnerable and led to the second goal.

 

We need wide men on the touchlines, attacking the byeline, spreading the back four, the other wide man not getting sucked in and waiting on the back corner of the penalty area to attack the back post.

 

I just cannot see what these players who have been attached to professional clubs since primary school Know about football. The coaches seem to know nothing either.

 

The team with the simplest basic system is Man Utd, play down the touchlines, attack with at least seven and woe betide anybody that doesnt bust a gut to get goalside when the ball is lost.

 

If we did that we would be 100% better. I am sick and tired of players strolling back after the attack has broken down. The trouble is there is no woe betide factor and a Ferguson hair dryer available.

 

Stop the mollycoddleing and bring in some real fear factor not just of the excuse it's now fear of the fans that is intimidating the players.

 

It's time for this cossetted group to bloody well take the responsibility or ship out. Age is no excuse, the Royal Marines and soldiers fighting in Afganistan are probably not much difference in age. These idiots are only playing a game FFS.

[Whitey Grandad]

The team with the simplest basic system is Man Utd, play down the touchlines, attack with at least seven and woe betide anybody that doesnt bust a gut to get goalside when the ball is lost.

 

Bobby Charlton said that about Sir Alf Ramsey. He would drum into them that whenever we lost the ball 'I must get goalside of my man'. Even a footballer could understand that.

[eelpie]

Just have 2 quick points I'd like to make . . .

 

First off, why did Poortvliet play Holmes out wide right and BWP wide left? There was just no balance and both players kept wanting to cut inside on their stronger foot. The Donny defenders were quick to work this out and suitably doubled up on Holmes and BWP, resulting in the majority of our attacks coming to nothing. There was no real width and I was of the impression that width plays a MAJOR part to this 'Dutch' formation if it's to be a success?

 

Secondly, I find it very frustrating that Poortvliet didn't make his tactical instructions clear to the players when switching to 3 at the back. When he sent on Lallana and Smith, he should have made it clear to all the players that he was changing formation and everyone should have known what was being asked of them. It took the lads a good few minutes before they knew what was going on and where they were being asked to play. Why is this? Surely this is basic stuff? Being unorganised like this could quite easily result in conceeding and would be unforgivable IMO.

 

Anyway, rant over. Thoughts?

 

Come back Burley, all is almost forgiven. (Well perhaps not)

[bungle]

I notice that we now have left-footed Puncheon on the right, and right-footed Lallana on the left and everybody seems happy.

[Arizona]

So desperate for attention you're trolling threads from over a year ago.

[merrimd]

I notice that we now have left-footed Puncheon on the right, and right-footed Lallana on the left and everybody seems happy.

 

IMHO, the difference is the 2 of them continually switch, thus leaving the 2 full backs unsure of who or what they are marking. If they were to stay on the same sides for the entire game, the opposition would be able to settle. Plus both are far and away superior players of course.

[chrisobee]

So desperate for attention you're trolling threads from over a year ago.

 

Says the man with an avatar which surely breaks forum rules......even though it does relate to Pompey !!

[bungle]

IMHO, the difference is the 2 of them continually switch, thus leaving the 2 full backs unsure of who or what they are marking. If they were to stay on the same sides for the entire game, the opposition would be able to settle. Plus both are far and away superior players of course.

 

Indeed, they are both very good players and do swap around, although largely Puncheon is on the right and Lallana the left.

 

I just find it, shall we say, 'interesting' that last season one of the main topics of conversation was that we could never play well with the "wrong-footed" winger on each wing. Perhaps, in fact, we can now see that this isn't as important as some people at the time thought?

[Barry the Badger]

Indeed, they are both very good players and do swap around, although largely Puncheon is on the right and Lallana the left.

 

I just find it, shall we say, 'interesting' that last season one of the main topics of conversation was that we could never play well with the "wrong-footed" winger on each wing. Perhaps, in fact, we can now see that this isn't as important as some people at the time thought?

 

I think the difference is simply that Puncheon and Lallana have been properly instructed on how to play those roles, and what is expected of them. They can both cut in and influence play infield.

 

From what I remember, Holmes and BWP both looked lost on the 'wrong' flank. So as is oftent he case, the problem was not the formation itself, just the way we were using it.

 

I was thinking last night how refreshing it is to see us making the most of the attributes of our players, rather than trying to shoehorn them into unfamiliar roles, giving them no guidance and apparently just hoping for the best.

[chrisobee]

Clearly the difference in quality is very important, for all that I am a big fan of Pardew he clearly has a far better squad than JVP. However, the credit is due for signing a player we really needed in Puncheon and making the best use of the undoubted talent of Lallana. That said I'm not sure as it was too long ago whether players of the calibre of Paine and Sydenham were that adept at playing on the "opposite" wings if indeed they ever did !!

[krissyboy31]

Indeed, they are both very good players and do swap around, although largely Puncheon is on the right and Lallana the left.

 

I just find it, shall we say, 'interesting' that last season one of the main topics of conversation was that we could never play well with the "wrong-footed" winger on each wing. Perhaps, in fact, we can now see that this isn't as important as some people at the time thought?

 

Also, both players can cross with their "wrong" foot, therefore don't have to constantly cut back inside and curl their crosses straight into the keepers hands.

[Smirking_Saint]

They can both cross with their weak foot, they actually have decent targets to hit in the box now. (DMG was never the most physically imposing was he) And they are also IMO better players, playing in a more confident and better team, under a better manager.

 

And all that without the boardroom unrest.

[benjii]

Indeed, they are both very good players and do swap around, although largely Puncheon is on the right and Lallana the left.

 

I just find it, shall we say, 'interesting' that last season one of the main topics of conversation was that we could never play well with the "wrong-footed" winger on each wing. Perhaps, in fact, we can now see that this isn't as important as some people at the time thought?

 

It depends on the quality and type of player.

 

Lallana and Puncheon are not your typical "leg it round the outside wingers". Holmes isn't either because he's quite slow but he is a "natural" winger in terms of the way he attacks the full-back. BWP is a headless chicken who is largely awful in any position but, likewise, his natural game is to go outside.

 

Horses for courses. Playing on the "wrong" wing can suit the likes of Puncheon and Lallana. I wouldn't want to play Antonio or Waigo on the left, for example, despite them both being very effective at times on the right.

[bungle]

It depends on the quality and type of player.

 

Lallana and Puncheon are not your typical "leg it round the outside wingers". Holmes isn't either because he's quite slow but he is a "natural" winger in terms of the way he attacks the full-back. BWP is a headless chicken who is largely awful in any position but, likewise, his natural game is to go outside.

 

Horses for courses. Playing on the "wrong" wing can suit the likes of Puncheon and Lallana. I wouldn't want to play Antonio or Waigo on the left, for example, despite them both being very effective at times on the right.

 

Not sure about your last part. I'm not sure Waigo is much good playing wide midfield in a 4-4-2, more suited to 4-5-1.

 

Have seen Antonio play on the left, and think he would be capable.

 

I think my point is that last year many used phrases such as the title of this post "tactically inept" to describe playing left-footer on the right, etc. But I think we see that it can be very good tactically to do this.

[Smirking_Saint]

Antonio struggles to cross with his right foot, why would he be any better on his left.

 

I have seen him put one decent cross in ever, and that was the pimpley game.

[Thedelldays]

I think the fact pardew has practically had to change the entire mach day squad suggests wotte and Jan had no chance in a league higher

[CanadaSaint]

I think it's a combination of all of the above with one added component that the Dutchmen apparently forgot.

 

When a "winger" cuts in, the full back on that side is supposed to move up and re-create the wide option - if it's safe to do so.

 

When it's done properly it works well in creating scoring chances, but it seldom does, which is why I don't care much for playing wingers on their "wrong" sides. James tried to do it correctly last year but his lack of pace meant that he ended up with too much real estate to cover on the opposing counter.

 

It's working for us now because we have faster, well-coached and better full backs. When we push forward like that we also have too many skilled players for them to mark properly.

 

IMO