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The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

CB Fry

By CB Fry,
in The Lounge

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SWF (Non Legally Binding) General Election  

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  1. 1. SWF (Non Legally Binding) General Election

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
Griffin does support Brexit but you don’t find me supporting him. More importantly Brexit supporting MP’s won’t be cheering him, claiming Brexit trumps bad behaviour. Bercow has had very serious allegations of bullying and sexism swept under the carpet purely because he is useful for the extremists in their attempt to bypass democracy. If you’re happy with that it tells us a lot about your moral compass.

 

 

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Remind us about your moral compass again Duckie. Pulled any nine pinters lately? Talking of extremists, would you say that kicking out long established members of your own Party, shutting down Parliament for 5 weeks so that the opposition have less time to deal with some very serious issues and inferring that you will ignore the instructions of your own House was extreme behaviour?

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted

An article that seems to sum up Boris pretty well

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/columnists/johnson-cant-escape-the-clutches-of-mays-zombie-brexit-deal/ar-AAH5IYS?ocid=spartandhp

 

He reads from the Trump playbook at home, but puts it hastily down when grownup EU leaders enter the room. He is too weak-willed to play the typical nationalist strongman. He saddled the populist tiger and rode it towards a no-deal Brexit, but look closely and you see a queasy expression, as if there is a part of him that wants to get off.

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Remind us about your moral compass again Duckie. Pulled any nine pinters lately? Talking of extremists, would you say that kicking out long established members of your own Party, shutting down Parliament for 5 weeks so that the opposition have less time to deal with some very serious issues and inferring that you will ignore the instructions of your own House was extreme behaviour?

 

What's immoral about smashing a nine-pinter?

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
Already been debunked. Fake news.

 

It hasn't. Its perfectly accurate that eurosceptic hedgies have shorted the pound and some of them also backed Johnson. Crispin Odey and Jonathan Moynihan are two of the biggest

 

Whether that equates to connivance with Johnson or simply they backed him because they knew he would bring volatility is another matter. Hedge funds make money from volatility - plunges up and down in values. They struggle with stability.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/investors-betting-against-the-british-pound-fear-a-reversal-11566907412

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-donations/boris-johnson-smashes-record-for-most-money-raised-by-uk-politician-idUKKCN1UC1U7

Edited by buctootim
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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
As an aside, I see that International Trade Secretary Liz Truss has had to apologise to a court for 'accidentally' licencing military spares for Saudi Arabia, in contravention of a court order and a promise to Parliament.

 

If this is true, I wonder when she will resign.

 

Or doesn't the law apply to members of Johnson's cabinet?

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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted

I have just finished watching a short series on the rise of the Nazi party. There are some worrying parallels both here, in Europe and in America. George Orwell will be turning in his grave. The use of The Big Lie has never been more prevalent in my lifetime to the extent that bare faced lying has become a daily occurrence, certainly on both sides of the Atlantic. Let’s be clear where this is coming from, the Right. The moderates in the Tory Party are either being forced out or feel that they can’t stay any longer. We have a PM who quite clearly has no moral compass and will say or do anything that he thinks will keep him in the top job. There is a man behind the scenes using Johnson’s vanity and ambition to further his own agenda. Dawkins is right when he says that the Brexit Brigade have moved to a point where their nationalistic fervour is becoming like a religion. It’s no surprise to read in Yellowhammer that social unrest could follow when we leave the EU. The next few months will be crucial in keeping a lid on the hard Right.

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scally

scally

Posted
Posted
I have just finished watching a short series on the rise of the Nazi party. There are some worrying parallels both here, in Europe and in America. George Orwell will be turning in his grave. The use of The Big Lie has never been more prevalent in my lifetime to the extent that bare faced lying has become a daily occurrence, certainly on both sides of the Atlantic. Let’s be clear where this is coming from, the Right. The moderates in the Tory Party are either being forced out or feel that they can’t stay any longer. We have a PM who quite clearly has no moral compass and will say or do anything that he thinks will keep him in the top job. There is a man behind the scenes using Johnson’s vanity and ambition to further his own agenda. Dawkins is right when he says that the Brexit Brigade have moved to a point where their nationalistic fervour is becoming like a religion. It’s no surprise to read in Yellowhammer that social unrest could follow when we leave the EU. The next few months will be crucial in keeping a lid on the hard Right.

 

We voted to leave the EU yet three years later you remoaners are doing every thing you can to overturn that decision. I love the way you **** all over democracy yet still try to take the moral high ground.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/18/gina-miller-and-the-destruction-of-democratic-equality/

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
I have just finished watching a short series on the rise of the Nazi party. There are some worrying parallels both here, in Europe and in America. George Orwell will be turning in his grave. The use of The Big Lie has never been more prevalent in my lifetime to the extent that bare faced lying has become a daily occurrence, certainly on both sides of the Atlantic. Let’s be clear where this is coming from, the Right. The moderates in the Tory Party are either being forced out or feel that they can’t stay any longer. We have a PM who quite clearly has no moral compass and will say or do anything that he thinks will keep him in the top job. There is a man behind the scenes using Johnson’s vanity and ambition to further his own agenda. Dawkins is right when he says that the Brexit Brigade have moved to a point where their nationalistic fervour is becoming like a religion. It’s no surprise to read in Yellowhammer that social unrest could follow when we leave the EU. The next few months will be crucial in keeping a lid on the hard Right.

 

What a load of old pony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
I have just finished watching a short series on the rise of the Nazi party. There are some worrying parallels both here, in Europe and in America. George Orwell will be turning in his grave. The use of The Big Lie has never been more prevalent in my lifetime to the extent that bare faced lying has become a daily occurrence, certainly on both sides of the Atlantic. Let’s be clear where this is coming from, the Right. The moderates in the Tory Party are either being forced out or feel that they can’t stay any longer. We have a PM who quite clearly has no moral compass and will say or do anything that he thinks will keep him in the top job. There is a man behind the scenes using Johnson’s vanity and ambition to further his own agenda. Dawkins is right when he says that the Brexit Brigade have moved to a point where their nationalistic fervour is becoming like a religion. It’s no surprise to read in Yellowhammer that social unrest could follow when we leave the EU. The next few months will be crucial in keeping a lid on the hard Right.
Well said. As Cameron said, we're now living in a post-truth era. Lying is normal and if you're called out on the lies, you laugh it off, shout down challenges (or in the case of parliamentary, shut them down so lies can go unchallenged).

 

Anything is justified in the name of winning, furthering your own career and saving your party from oblivion. National interest is irrelevant. Appeal to the basest of instincts with simplistic slogans.

 

Worrying times.

 

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benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted
Well said. As Cameron said, we're now living in a post-truth era. Lying is normal and if you're called out on the lies, you laugh it off, shout down challenges (or in the case of parliamentary, shut them down so lies can go unchallenged).

 

Anything is justified in the name of winning, furthering your own career and saving your party from oblivion. National interest is irrelevant. Appeal to the basest of instincts with simplistic slogans.

 

Worrying times.

 

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Hopefully once Trump is gone (which will be soon as his dementia is worsening quite quickly) things start getting back to normal but I fear two things: i) his backers and family try to make a dynasty of his office; ii) targeted lies at stupid and/or hopeless people have been shown to work and it is increasingly easy to target people.

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scally

scally

Posted
Posted (edited)
He's getting confused again between Remainers who are happy to forgo a second referendum as long as we leave with a deal, and those that want to revoke article 50.

 

I think many of us are part of the first part of this, and if the WA came about again I would think it would get through.

 

Your all the same mate, a second referendum after the last 3 years of totally biased media would only end one way, you can't keep voting until you get your own way. You have to respect the original vote and carry it out, not pretend to carry it out and make a total cluster **** of it like May did

Edited by scally
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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
We voted to leave the EU yet three years later you remoaners are doing every thing you can to overturn that decision. I love the way you **** all over democracy yet still try to take the moral high ground.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/18/gina-miller-and-the-destruction-of-democratic-equality/

I've rarely read such self-contradictory jibberish in all my life.

 

Remain elite? Utter rubbish. For your elite, try looking at the likes of Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg, all desperately seeking an outcome that will benefit themselves, keep their elitist party in power to keep the vast majority in their place, enable their own tax avoidance and increase their ability to screw the ordinary man and woman in the pursuit of even more wealth.

 

There is no Remain elite. My experience is that those wanting to stay in the EU tend to be intelligent, questioning individuals who don't lap up lies and jingoistic slofans, and can see and understand the disastrous impact of any Brexit, especially a no-deal Brexit.

 

Why can so few people see that the current situation is dominated not by consideration of the national interest, validating or not validating a referendum, but following whatever course Johnson thinks will recapture votes. He's calculated there are more to be won back from the extreme right (Brexit) than from moderates. So he's abandoned any previously-held positions to adopt the Brexit extremist ground. Because he's a liar with no principles.

 

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scally

scally

Posted
Posted
I've rarely read such self-contradictory jibberish in all my life.

 

Remain elite? Utter rubbish. For your elite, try looking at the likes of Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg, all desperately seeking an outcome that will benefit themselves, keep their elitist party in power to keep the vast majority in their place, enable their own tax avoidance and increase their ability to screw the ordinary man and woman in the pursuit of even more wealth.

 

There is no Remain elite. My experience is that those wanting to stay in the EU tend to be intelligent, questioning individuals who don't lap up lies and jingoistic slofans, and can see and understand the disastrous impact of any Brexit, especially a no-deal Brexit.

 

Why can so few people see that the current situation is dominated not by consideration of the national interest, validating or not validating a referendum, but following whatever course Johnson thinks will recapture votes. He's calculated there are more to be won back from the extreme right (Brexit) than from moderates. So he's abandoned any previously-held positions to adopt the Brexit extremist ground. Because he's a liar with no principles.

 

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If you think Johnson is being driven by what he thinks will win votes then what's going on in the Labour Party, Corbyn is the biggest euro sceptic in Parliament yet clings onto power by pretending to be some thing he's not. The Lib Dems have just grabbed a position that will get them more mp's than they could dream of. The Houses of Parliament is all about self preservation, they all lie and they all do what ever it takes to win votes

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Your all the same mate, a second referendum after the last 3 years of totally biased media would only end one way, you can't keep voting until you get your own way. You have to respect the original vote and carry it out, not pretend to carry it out and make a total cluster **** of it like May did

 

As I said, I will leave if it is with a deal. Otherwise it should go back to the people to decide.

 

It's very simple.

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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
If you think Johnson is being driven by what he thinks will win votes then what's going on in the Labour Party, Corbyn is the biggest euro sceptic in Parliament yet clings onto power by pretending to be some thing he's not. The Lib Dems have just grabbed a position that will get them more mp's than they could dream of. The Houses of Parliament is all about self preservation, they all lie and they all do what ever it takes to win votes
I pretty well agree. Corbyn is, I think, in favour of leaving but is compromising his principles all the time to try to hold his party together and win votes.

 

The LibDem position is at least clear. If any situation arises in which they can back a confirmatory or second referendum, they will. And they'll campaign in that referendum to remain. In the unlikely event that that the LibDems had a majority, they'd revoke. Whilst some, even in their own party, are uncomfortably with this, I understand the position.

 

If you campaign clearly in a GE on the basis of this action and get a majority, you don't then need a referendum. If we have a GE and Johnson gets a majority, he'll implement whatever he likes. (But not the promises re police, education, etc. which are just lies to get elected.

 

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
I've rarely read such self-contradictory jibberish in all my life.

 

Remain elite? Utter rubbish. For your elite, try looking at the likes of Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg, all desperately seeking an outcome that will benefit themselves, keep their elitist party in power to keep the vast majority in their place, enable their own tax avoidance and increase their ability to screw the ordinary man and woman in the pursuit of even more wealth.

 

There is no Remain elite. My experience is that those wanting to stay in the EU tend to be intelligent, questioning individuals who don't lap up lies and jingoistic slofans, and can see and understand the disastrous impact of any Brexit, especially a no-deal Brexit.

 

Why can so few people see that the current situation is dominated not by consideration of the national interest, validating or not validating a referendum, but following whatever course Johnson thinks will recapture votes. He's calculated there are more to be won back from the extreme right (Brexit) than from moderates. So he's abandoned any previously-held positions to adopt the Brexit extremist ground. Because he's a liar with no principles.

 

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Yep. An article written by an oddball for other oddballs.

 

There are fundamental constitutional principles at stake here regarding the appropriate role and powers of government, parliament and the courts. Whatever the result, anyone with an interest in the health of our democracy should welcome the case. Given the murky, unwritten and evolutionary nature of the British constitution, its only by bringing cases like this that constitutional principles can be fleshed out and given practical form.

 

Emphasising the fact that remainers are bringing the case is at best irrelevant and ignorant and at worst dangerous demagoguery. Ultimately the case will be determined as a matter of law, not politics, by the supreme court 'without fear or favour, affection or ill will'.

 

The whole idea of a remain elite using its wealth to milk the legal system (access which is beyond the reach of the rest of us) is just projection and gibberish by dopey, sulky Brendan. Lets not forget that the Brexit Party is unsurpassed in its litigiousness and attempts to silence journalists and private individuals or that Brexiters like Robin Tilbrook and Bill Legg have merrily brought cases before the courts involving constitutional matters, claiming for example that the extension of article 50 was illegal. Then again Robin Tilbrook’s only a partner at a law firm and freeman of the City of London and Bill Legg was only once chief executive of the conservative party, so they don’t really count as part of the elite :lol:

Edited by shurlock
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Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted
We voted to leave the EU yet three years later you remoaners are doing every thing you can to overturn that decision. I love the way you **** all over democracy yet still try to take the moral high ground.

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/18/gina-miller-and-the-destruction-of-democratic-equality/

 

"Nigel Farage walks into a pub and says, “I'll have a pint of beer please.” The barman pours a pint, then throws it all over Farage.

“What did you do that for?” says Farage, drenched to the skin.

'Because you're in a metaphor which illustrates the stupidity of asking for something but not stipulating how you fecking wanted it delivered, you frog-faced sniveling cant!'

“But I'm still thirsty, so I want a pint -- this time in a glass!” says Farage.

'You can't ask again!' said the barman.

“Why not?” sniveled Farage.

'Democracy.' says the barman."

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
"Nigel Farage walks into a pub and says, “I'll have a pint of beer please.” The barman pours a pint, then throws it all over Farage.

“What did you do that for?” says Farage, drenched to the skin.

'Because you're in a metaphor which illustrates the stupidity of asking for something but not stipulating how you fecking wanted it delivered, you frog-faced sniveling cant!'

“But I'm still thirsty, so I want a pint -- this time in a glass!” says Farage.

'You can't ask again!' said the barman.

“Why not?” sniveled Farage.

'Democracy.' says the barman."

 

:lol: That's good!

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
I've rarely read such self-contradictory jibberish in all my life.

 

Remain elite? Utter rubbish. For your elite, try looking at the likes of Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg, all desperately seeking an outcome that will benefit themselves, keep their elitist party in power to keep the vast majority in their place, enable their own tax avoidance and increase their ability to screw the ordinary man and woman in the pursuit of even more wealth.

 

There is no Remain elite.

 

You’re deluded man. You’re somehow convincing yourself that you’re fighting against the elite, the privileged, the establishment, when the truth is you’re fighting for those very people. The banks, big business, The Lords, The civil service, the whole bloody establishment here and abroad support the status quo. There’s absolutely nothing radical or progressive about your stance, it’s conservative to its very core. Just because some privileged people support Leaving, doesn’t make it a privileged or elitist endeavour. The EU is a bosses club, a protectionist racket that seeks to build an empire. Always has been, always will be.

 

 

 

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Johnny Bognor

Johnny Bognor

Posted
Posted (edited)
Your all the same mate, a second referendum after the last 3 years of totally biased media would only end one way, you can't keep voting until you get your own way. You have to respect the original vote and carry it out, not pretend to carry it out and make a total cluster **** of it like May did

 

Oh, but when it comes to the EU, you can. The Irish said NO. Quite clearly. Millions were spent on EU propaganda and the Irish voted Yes, second time round

 

The French were specifically asked "Do you approve the bill authorizing the ratification of the treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe?

 

The French said NO. Quite clearly. But the French people were ignored, as were the Dutch

 

So we won't leave the EU. It will never be allowed. As for the will of the people, it clearly doesn't matter, as history has shown

 

It's like the Hotel California. You can check out, but you can never leave

Edited by Johnny Bognor
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Shroppie

Shroppie

Posted
Posted
You’re deluded man. You’re somehow convincing yourself that you’re fighting against the elite, the privileged, the establishment, when the truth is you’re fighting for those very people. The banks, big business, The Lords, The civil service, the whole bloody establishment here and abroad support the status quo. There’s absolutely nothing radical or progressive about your stance, it’s conservative to its very core. Just because some privileged people support Leaving, doesn’t make it a privileged or elitist endeavour. The EU is a bosses club, a protectionist racket that seeks to build an empire. Always has been, always will be.

 

 

 

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We're clearly poles apart on this.

 

Whatever the EU's faults it's a strong union and, firstly, we need to be in it to influence it and secondly are, IMO, much stronger as a nation of part of an alliance, rather than pretending to be an individual superpower.

 

The vote to exit was an alliance of scheming wealthy individuals who saw opportunities for themselves, politicians who saw personal advancement through playing a patriotic card (whilst expecting to lose), manipulators who made money by dreaming up and spreading populist and simplistic slogans, the unthinking majority who believes and lapped up those slogans and sound-bites, and out and out racists.

 

I'm totally committed to Remain and have been throughout. To me, no matter how much you despise the EU, the only rational position is to be part of it. So many benefits it's brought the UK have been carefully ignored or deliberately denied without evidence by Brexiteers. I'm not deluded. I've spent many hours considering arguments and my position is based on logical analysis. so we're never going to agree.

 

I'm not going to say you're deluded, but I do think you've been taken in by propaganda. But I respect your view, even though I think it's misguided.

 

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Oh, but when it comes to the EU, you can. The Irish said NO. Quite clearly. Millions were spent on EU propaganda and the Irish voted Yes, second time round

 

The French were specifically asked "Do you approve the bill authorizing the ratification of the treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe?

 

The French said NO. Quite clearly. But the French people were ignored.

 

So we won't leave the EU. It will never be allowed. As for the will of the people, it clearly doesn't matter, as history has shown

said NO too. But they just changed the EU constitution

Voters were specifically asked: "Do you approve the bill authorizing the ratification of the treaty establishing a Constitution for Europe?"

 

#mess

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norwaysaint

norwaysaint

Posted
Posted
Boris walks into a pub and says, "I'll have a pint of beer please."

Barman pours it and says "That'll be £2.25 but we can negotiate if you like"

Boris says nothing. But still annoys everyone.

 

Closer to what happened is is surely that Boris said this price was unacceptable. He then insisted that he was entitled to the beer, because that's the drink agreed upon. The barman says that's fine, but this is the price that they have. Hello stays open to Boris coming up with another way to pay. Boris says it'll all be worked out but how he's paying is a big secret. It becomes clear that Boris is about to walk away with the dregs of everyone else's pint, he's prepared to do that rather than accept the price or come up with an alternative. Boris blames the pub.

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

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