Newcastle 3-2 Saints - Match Thread

[Matthew Le God]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Because we were the 5th or 6th best premier League side in 2020?

 

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

But were we really though? 

Yes we were based on results and why would you not base it on results?

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

But were we really though?

Yes. Only 4 or 5 teams scored more points than us in the whole of 2020 ergo we were the best 5th or 6th team in the calendar year that ended just over a month ago.

[UpweySaint]

1 hour ago, Chez said:

Amen. Way OTT.  He has been out of the side quite a while.  Little wonder his confidence has been dented a bit. Djenepo has ben shit. Walcott gone off the boil in last few weeks, yet Redmond gets one game and its all his fault we created little.

Agreed. Not saying he played well, been nowhere near his best this season, but we played poorly as a team with little exception.

 

The most frustrating thing for me is the Villa game. We deserved to win that one. If we had, even with the 9-0, people wouldn't be having quite the same sense of crisis and panic.

[trousers]

Something familiar about the post-match thread for the Everton game last season, (another loss in the aftermath of another 9-0 defeat )... Can't quite put my finger on why it's so familiar though.... #kneejerkreactions #dejavu

I wonder if people's ability to predict the future has improved since then...? 😂

Edited 6 February, 2021 by trousers

[Saint86]

Pitch was atrocious today, made it very easy for Newcastle to sit deep... but agreed. Worrying from the team that we lack this much creativity.

[stknowle]

11 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yes. Only 4 or 5 teams scored more points than us in the whole of 2020 ergo we were the best 5th or 6th team in the calendar year that ended just over a month ago.

 But were we though?

[trousers]

1 minute ago, stknowle said:

 But were we though?

Yes, we were 

Edited 6 February, 2021 by trousers

[Vancouver Saint]

When you think of it, three of the worst game outcomes imaginable in a row. Villa, robbed by corrupt officials. Man Utd, everything that could go wrong did, plus criminal VAR and reffing. Newcastle, way to rub it in and deflate confidence further. 

Time for the sun to shine on us a bit.

 

 

[Big M]

I think this runs deeper in the club. Ralph stated the club won't or can't finance the players he wants, that statement in itself isn't going to make the likes of Ings sign or anyone else who's half decent. Our academy is poor atm and no one is coming through, borrowing at hefty interest rates isn't good business it smacks of desperation. I don't think it will be long before we hear that Gao cannot afford anything to do with the club and we'll end up exactly where we were not so many years ago, sell your assets (players) and replace with kids and hope. Ings will be sold, then Vestergard, prowse, Bertrand won't sign... Its a cluster fuck. 

[stknowle]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Ye, we were 

Ye? You absolutely sure pal? 

[M271]

Wow 4 league loses in 11 days, has there ever been such a rapid loss of league games for us? It is madness though, over 10% of the league games played in only 11 days.

[trousers]

1 minute ago, stknowle said:

Ye? You absolutely sure pal? 

Yes, pal

 

[M271]

6 minutes ago, Vancouver Saint said:

When you think of it, three of the worst game outcomes imaginable in a row. Villa, robbed by corrupt officials. Man Utd, everything that could go wrong did, plus criminal VAR and reffing. Newcastle, way to rub it in and deflate confidence further. 

Time for the sun to shine on us a bit.

 

 

This.

[Shroppie]

I don't know where to start, really. I suppose with why we lost. That was because we let in three goals in the first half, )and that puts the blame squarely on the defence): the first because we didn't have a proper right back. Bednarek dived in for an interception he didn't make and gave St Maximan a free run instead of shepherding him outside. Doesn't happen with KWP.

The second was some of the same, plus Bednarek not getting his feet sorted out. A bit unlucky.

And the third was a McCarthy clusterfuck. Poor pass out underhit on a sodden surface when it needed hitting. Especially one minute from HT. Then Bertrand was slow to react and recover the situation. He had just been crocked, but poor. Then McCarthy gets his position totally wrong fir the shot, leaving near post wide open with JWP covering across the goal.

So, although I'm disappointed (euphamism) that we didn't get anything at the end, we did score two good goals away from home and shouldn't have needed more to get even a draw.

There were factors that worked against us. I'm not calling them excuses because you have to deal with what you get, but these made a difference.

Most of the team were either weary after a gruelling and exhausting experience on Tues, or were returning and not quite on the pace. They will have been nervous of another disaster.

Both Tues, and more so today, the conditions were draining, worked against playing decent football, and must have been exhausting. Yes, it's the same for both teams, but the pitch was so bad in the last 30 minsit was hard to play sharp passes. But we did make sone chances and Danny was unlucky hitting the post. Just not happening for him.

But some things I thought were poor, strange or just wrong. Ralph may be trying to play Redmond back into form, but he contributed little, even wasting half out previous stoppage time with a stupid foul. Didn't take on his man. Didn't shoot. Lost momentum again and again. And with Djenepo on the bench, why didn't we see him? Surely a better option than N'Lundulu especially when Vestergaard had been thrown into attack. And why, given the attack we had at the end, didn't we throw more crosses in? In those conditions the hard-hit low cross can skim anywhere. 

But at least it was a "normal" scoreline. Trying to look for positives, I'd suggest:

In less atrocious conditions, we'll play well again. When we get KWP back, it'll make a huge difference. Ings needs a bit of luck: his general play contributed a lot. I thought Adams, Romeu, Minamino, JWP had good games. But trying to play a high-tempo game on that surface was near impossible, particularly with tired players.

This incessant two games a week, especially with injuries and a small squad with no chance to rotate, is killing us (and really favouring the big clubs. With the injuries today, Newcastle will now struggle.) When Europe restarts, the boot will be on the other foot, we'll get decent recovery periods and hopeful turn results around.

I've got no great expectations for this season now, just mid-table. Ralph has a very delicate and difficult job to do retaining the integrity of our playing style, rebuilding confidence but kicking a few arses where required to sharpen things up. We just can't afford sloppy defence. Our game is built on risk-taking, pressing, high-intensity and quick forward passing. For that to work, we have to be confident that the defence will recover if we lose the ball. The danger is, if we get nervous about defending, we'll lose the willingness to take risks in attack.

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

21 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yes. Only 4 or 5 teams scored more points than us in the whole of 2020 ergo we were the best 5th or 6th team in the calendar year that ended just over a month ago.

I guess the question is, how do we get back to that kind of form?

[stknowle]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yes, pal

 

Nice one pal . Reassuring to know. Notwithstanding the point we were arguing about having been long forgotten. Nighty night 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I guess the question is, how do we get back to that kind of form?

Whilst it's true that we had that period of form, stretching over a really good sample of games, it's not a true reflection as it came across two seasons - one with a forced break in the middle of it. We seemed to handle the 'restart' matches much better than anyone else, not entirely sure why. Then we just gained momentum and ended the season like a train.

We had a little break to recharge our batteries in the summer, and we kind of started where we left off (bar the first 3 games...).

The true test was always producing that level of form over an entire season, but it's become pretty clear that we can't do that because of our squad. Unfortunately 10/11/12 is probably a fair place for this squad as it stands and I'd be more than happy with that level of finish.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, stknowle said:

Nice one pal . Reassuring to know. Notwithstanding the point we were arguing about having been long forgotten. Nighty night 

Bon nuit, pal

[LiberalCommunist]

No injuries, no suspensions & not being screwed by var. If we had to lose today, then a least we can cling to that. 

All in for the cup game, then rotate for a rest. Season hinges on Thursday now. 

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I guess the question is, how do we get back to that kind of form?

Same as last time? Don't panic / overreact and start playing better with the same players and manager again? 

Edited 6 February, 2021 by trousers

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Whilst it's true that we had that period of form, stretching over a really good sample of games, it's not a true reflection as it came across two seasons - one with a forced break in the middle of it. We seemed to handle the 'restart' matches much better than anyone else, not entirely sure why. Then we just gained momentum and ended the season like a train.

We had a little break to recharge our batteries in the summer, and we kind of started where we left off (bar the first 3 games...).

The true test was always producing that level of form over an entire season, but it's become pretty clear that we can't do that because of our squad. Unfortunately 10/11/12 is probably a fair place for this squad as it stands and I'd be more than happy with that level of finish.

That's how I saw it. In terms of squad size, is Ralph going the right way about things? I know we don't have the resources, but to insist on working with a smaller pool of players is really hurting us at the moment. It's obvious that our back up players are nowhere near the level required. I know it's his mantra, but is it a mantra that is forced upon him by the board? Would his squad depth by better at Leipzig?

[stknowle]

Just now, trousers said:

Bon nuit, pal

 

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Bon nuit, pal

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Same as last time? Don't panic / overreact and start playing better with the same players and manager again? 

Let's hope so

[JRM]

2 hours ago, Roo1976 said:

mmmm , someone has a crystal ball.

I don't take any pleasure in that prediction being right, but I watch (too much) football and have followed Saints for long enough to know what to expect. 

I even remember as a kid the last season we were top of the league and we got a bit excited in 1988/89, we still managed to go on a 20 match run without a win and nearly go down, funny old club. 

I still hold a little bit of hope we can do something in the FA Cup, but it's not looking likely. 

[gallaghert366@yahoo.com]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

He wasn’t tactically out though by Bruce. We gave away three shit goals when they went down to 10 and then 9 they sat deep and defended like a team should defend. It was basic stuff hardly a tactical master class 

For what purpose does this 'posse',  Richard Kitzbichler, Craig Fleming, Dave Watson, Kelvin Davis, Andrew Sparkes and Alek Gross exist?

[S-Clarke]

11 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

That's how I saw it. In terms of squad size, is Ralph going the right way about things? I know we don't have the resources, but to insist on working with a smaller pool of players is really hurting us at the moment. It's obvious that our back up players are nowhere near the level required. I know it's his mantra, but is it a mantra that is forced upon him by the board? Would his squad depth by better at Leipzig?

I think he openly admitted he'd have more players here if he could have them! The quality of the depth isn't there, they're just academy players, who let's face it...aren't up to the level in the main. He's been dealt a tough hand really, he's had to generate pretty much all his funds from sales since he's been here. Kinda tied with one hand behind his back most of the time.

That's why I think he deserves a lot of credit for what he's managed to eek out of this squad.

[Sarisbury Saint]

We’ve been shown how to attack against a team with 9 men and we’ve been shown how to defend with 9 men. Both with ease.

Question is have we learnt anything ?

[woodsaint1]

Seen mention of us being in a relegation fight? The drama queens are out in force when we lose as usual. We need about 7 points to guarantee safety which we will get easily. That being said, a season which held a lot of promise, is being pissed away and now looking like the usual 12-16th place finish

[Shroppie]

As an aside, it was a pleasure to have a ref who was virtually invisible. And very good.

[Appy]

Just now, Shroppie said:

As an aside, it was a pleasure to have a ref who was virtually invisible. And very good.

Should’ve sent Bednarek off though. 

[macca155]

1 minute ago, Shroppie said:

As an aside, it was a pleasure to have a ref who was virtually invisible. And very good.

I thought that, he had a good game. Touch and go not sending Bendarek off mind.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Seen mention of us being in a relegation fight? The drama queens are out in force when we lose as usual. We need about 7 points to guarantee safety which we will get easily. That being said, a season which held a lot of promise, is being pissed away and now looking like the usual 12-16th place finish

I haven't. If anyone has mentioned it they're WUM'ing. We're not in a relegation fight, we can at least rest easy in that sense.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

As an aside, it was a pleasure to have a ref who was virtually invisible. And very good.

 

Just now, Appy said:

Should’ve sent Bednarek off though. 

Two footed from behind and Hendrick only got a yellow card. They could have been down to 10 men much earlier in the game than they were (the 11th minute before their first goal).

[Appy]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

 

Two footed from behind and Hendrick only got a yellow card. They could have been down to 10 men much earlier in the game than they were (the 11th minute before their first goal).

Not sure why you’ve quoted me there. 
 

Our player should’ve been sent off, nothing to do with Hendrick.

[Shroppie]

5 minutes ago, Appy said:

Should’ve sent Bednarek off though. 

Possibly, but not sure it was a clear goal chance

[Lee On Solent Saint]

24 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I think he openly admitted he'd have more players here if he could have them! The quality of the depth isn't there, they're just academy players, who let's face it...aren't up to the level in the main. He's been dealt a tough hand really, he's had to generate pretty much all his funds from sales since he's been here. Kinda tied with one hand behind his back most of the time.

That's why I think he deserves a lot of credit for what he's managed to eek out of this squad.

That's what I was getting at, the squad depth. On paper the starting 11 is pretty strong, but beyond that we are struggling. Even the Newcastle bench had a lot more options than we did today. They had a bit of experience, we had the kids. Have we got too many players out on loan? 

[Turkish]

29 minutes ago, gallaghert366@yahoo.com said:

For what purpose does this 'posse',  Richard Kitzbichler, Craig Fleming, Dave Watson, Kelvin Davis, Andrew Sparkes and Alek Gross exist?

Eh? Your claim was Bruce tactically out classed Ralph. Your claim is wrong. 

[Chez]

17 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Possibly, but not sure it was a clear goal chance

clean through. I'd of be fuming if it had been the other way round. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

That's what I was getting at, the squad depth. On paper the starting 11 is pretty strong, but beyond that we are struggling. Even the Newcastle bench had a lot more options than we did today. They had a bit of experience, we had the kids. Have we got too many players out on loan? 

You referring to the likes of Hoedt/Lemina/Elyounoussi etc?

They needed to go to be honest, they weren't offering us anything. Plus letting them go enabled us to bring in the likes of Diallo and Theo, without those departures we wouldn't have had the room in the wage budget.

[saint77]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

That's what I was getting at, the squad depth. On paper the starting 11 is pretty strong, but beyond that we are struggling. Even the Newcastle bench had a lot more options than we did today. They had a bit of experience, we had the kids. Have we got too many players out on loan? 

None of the players out on loan are good enough IMO 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

You referring to the likes of Hoedt/Lemina/Elyounoussi etc?

They needed to go to be honest, they weren't offering us anything. Plus letting them go enabled us to bring in the likes of Diallo and Theo, without those departures we wouldn't have had the room in the wage budget.

Get that with Hoedt and Lemina, especially Lemina who just is a waste of space. Always thought that they got rid of Elyounassi too early though. Sure there is a player in there somewhere. Got to be a better bet than Redmond at the moment

[CanadaSaint]

9 minutes ago, saint77 said:

None of the players out on loan are good enough IMO 

I agree, but better to keep some positional depth than to throw a kid into the Old Trafford cauldron or ask Stephens to cover Saint-Maximin. And, with no real alternative, Bertrand isn’t exactly shining - defensively or offensively.

[Shroppie]

8 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Got to be a better bet than Redmond at the moment

Redmond has lost his mojo. Hopefully it'll come back, but at the moment he's not taking anyone on or getting crosses in, which makes him fairly useless. But, as I recall, Elyounoussi was consistently useless.

Edited 6 February, 2021 by Shroppie

[Lee On Solent Saint]

6 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Redmond has lost his mojo. Hopefully it'll come back, but at the moment he's not taking anyone on or getting crosses in, which makes him fairly useless. But, as I recall, Elyounoussi was consistently useless.

Redmond's been on the slide for far too long now, but still gets further chances. Not saying that Elyounoussi would be any better, but he hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip. We could have tried again with him and not bothered with Walcott, who let's face it hasn't exactly set the world on fire here.

[Shroppie]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Redmond's been on the slide for far too long now, but still gets further chances. Not saying that Elyounoussi would be any better, but he hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip. We could have tried again with him and not bothered with Walcott, who let's face it hasn't exactly set the world on fire here.

I think he had a very fair crack of the whip. And Walcott has made good contributions. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

I think he had a very fair crack of the whip. And Walcott has made good contributions. 

Not really sure I would class 8 starts and a further 8 as a sub as a fair crack. Like I said, not saying he would be any different but seems too soon to write off a player. 

[East Kent Saint]

2 hours ago, Saint Billy said:

That's why I said Gao Knows.

Btw, are you bracing yourself for the snow, I live in Kent as well.

Yep did a early morning shop so won’t have to drive for a week ! I thought Tesco’s would be packed due to forecast as usual but quiet , mind you it was early as I had been watching the cricket 😀

Edited 6 February, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[Turkish]

19 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Redmond's been on the slide for far too long now, but still gets further chances. Not saying that Elyounoussi would be any better, but he hasn't really had a fair crack of the whip. We could have tried again with him and not bothered with Walcott, who let's face it hasn't exactly set the world on fire here.

He not on the slide. He’s had 2-3 good spells in 5 years. The rest of the time he is as he is now. It’s frustrating as there could be a good player in there but he has a very fragile mentality, seems to really suffer from a lack of confidence, he’s just an average player whose had a couple of good spells

[InvictaSaint]

11 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Yep did a early morning shop so won’t have to drive for a week ! I thought Tesco’s would be packed due to forecast as usual but quiet , mind you it was early as I had been watching the cricket 😀

Where are you based EKS? Wondering if my Tesco and your Tesco are one and the same.....

[Lee On Solent Saint]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

He not on the slide. He’s had 2-3 good spells in 5 years. The rest of the time he is as he is now. It’s frustrating as there could be a good player in there but he has a very fragile mentality, seems to really suffer from a lack of confidence, he’s just an average player whose had a couple of good spells

Would agree with the confidence issue if there was a stadium full of fans berating him. As think we have seen before that has a negative effective on some players.