Women’s Football

[danjosaint]

As most say the women's game at the moment is what it is, a lack of technical quality and technique and should be taken in its own right not pitched against the men. What I will say is my daughter plays a high level for her age and there are some seriously talented and technically brilliant girls out there, yes they'll never complete with highest level boys/men but in 5-10yrs the women's game in itself will be of a much better standard, also need the refs to up there game 

[SW11_Saint]

7 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Serious question - are women's penalty shootout always so crap because they have less power to strike a dead ball? Or was that just particularly terrible? 

That was just particularly terrible I think. Awful selection of takers by Wiegman (Kelly & Bronze should have been in the first three takers). In fact Wiegman got it wrong pretty much all night, Sweden were miles better. She owes Chloe Kelly a very large G&T…

Wife & daughter are there for the semi-final - hope we put on a better show! 

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, danjosaint said:

As most say the women's game at the moment is what it is, a lack of technical quality and technique and should be taken in its own right not pitched against the men. What I will say is my daughter plays a high level for her age and there are some seriously talented and technically brilliant girls out there, yes they'll never complete with highest level boys/men but in 5-10yrs the women's game in itself will be of a much better standard, also need the refs to up there game 

I would agree there are some very good girl players out there. I refereed a couple of girls tournaments in June U13s and U10s and there were three or four seriously good players there in both age groups. it was also a much nicer experience as a ref with girls much more polite than the boys and parents not so aggressive but that’s another story. 

A couple of girls still play in U12s boys football for other teams in my sons league both of them are very good technically and have recently been picked up by academies in the area. Finally the futsal club my son is in the U11s-U12s train together and there are a couple of girls at that who technically are very good and up there with best boys. 
 

Older than that it gets hard for them to compete with the boys at U12s and below they physically as strong but once puberty hits it’s a game changer. We sometimes have a couple of Leeds U14s girls train with us and despite being two years older are not even at the level of some of the better grassroots players now. 

but there are so much more girls football now than even 5 years ago, our club has a team at all age groups now playing in leagues plus a women’s adult team and you see more and more girls wanting to play which is great for them. It’s helped by the fact a former England international women player who was part of the euros team played for the club when she was younger and the pavilion is named after her. 
 

it’s definitely going to improve but the women’s game will always struggle to even be at the level of decent standard youth football, simple biology tells you that, the women might good technically  but the boys and men do everything and more that they do but with much more pace and power and as anyone will know operating at a higher speed is going to naturally make everything else better too, first touch, reactions etc so let’s just enjoy it for what it is and stop all the comparisons. Last night’s penalty shootout was shocking so no idea why people are getting upset people are saying that to make out it wasn’t is just embarrassing, lying and kind of proves that those are getting angry are more interested in being seen to be saying the right things. 

[skintsaint]

This twatter account disagrees.

[Sunglasses Ron]

I've always felt that the women's game is trying too hard to simply copy the men's one, rather than putting on a different product.

Smaller pitches, smaller goals, different kits, 80 minute games, maybe even outlawing heading, would, I think, give it some really good USPs.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, skintsaint said:

This twatter account disagrees.

It was funny when she got the ball in the centre circle in the second half and the commentator said “this is where the magic happens”

she then booted the ball about 20 yards over and wide of the winger and went out for a throw in 

[Stripey McStripe Shirt]

15 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I've always felt that the women's game is trying too hard to simply copy the men's one, rather than putting on a different product.

Smaller pitches, smaller goals, different kits, 80 minute games, maybe even outlawing heading, would, I think, give it some really good USPs.

If there were smaller goals, I fear last night's penalty shootout would still be waiting for its first goal.

[Fabrice Fernandes no.1 fan]

17 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I've always felt that the women's game is trying too hard to simply copy the men's one, rather than putting on a different product.

Smaller pitches, smaller goals, different kits, 80 minute games, maybe even outlawing heading, would, I think, give it some really good USPs.

There was a small sided tournament earlier in the summer that some English teams played in that was really fun to watch because it was more like this. It was clearly a gimmick but interesting to see how a 7-a-side tournament of professionals went, and it did seem to suit the women's game more.

I've always thought it is interesting that there isn't such a range of physical differences in the women's game between positions, the centre backs for example aren't particularly tall like in the men's game, you could quite easily put Leah Williamson in most positions on the pitch and she'd look comfortable because she's athletic enough to do most roles and physical enough, but to compare to England Men's you wouldn't want John Stones in many positions other than where he has played.

England have a real shot at the final now, Italy don't look any better than Sweden or the Netherlands and we've now (admittedly a bit scrappily last night) got past both.

[East Kent Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

It was funny when she got the ball in the centre circle in the second half and the commentator said “this is where the magic happens”

she then booted the ball about 20 yards over and wide of the winger and went out for a throw in 

Well known commentators kiss of death ! Motson excelled at this " The last thing England need now is to concede from this corner " is a classic 😄

[steve green]

20 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Well known commentators kiss of death ! Motson excelled at this " The last thing England need now is to concede from this corner " is a classic 😄

 

Who was the old Solent commentator with a masters degree in stating the bloody obvious.

 

Used to drive my Saints anxiety to mega levels with a throwaway "the last thing Saints want to do now" in the 87th min.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, steve green said:

 

Who was the old Solent commentator with a masters degree in stating the bloody obvious.

 

Used to drive my Saints anxiety to mega levels with a throwaway "the last thing Saints want to do now" in the 87th min.

Dave Merrington bless him. "What saints dont want to do now is concede a goal" 

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

It was funny when she got the ball in the centre circle in the second half and the commentator said “this is where the magic happens”

she then booted the ball about 20 yards over and wide of the winger and went out for a throw in 

That says more about the idiocy of Robyn Cowan than anything about Lauren James. Utterly abysmal commentator. 

[rallyboy]

Yes there were some terrible penalties and some Saintly defending early on, but they came back from two down and on the brink in the shootout to get through.

If the men had shown the same resilience and fight over the years, 1966 wouldn't be an oasis of joy in a huge desert of underachievement, golden generations and failure.

Bring on Italy, see if the women can do better than the men did against them when the title was on a plate.

I suspect they will.

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

That says more about the idiocy of Robyn Cowan than anything about Lauren James. Utterly abysmal commentator. 

Shit commentery and a shit pass. TBF Lauren James played pretty well apart from that. 

[Marsdinho]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Shit commentery and a shit pass. TBF Lauren James played pretty well apart from that. 

She doesnt seem the sharpest tool in the box, hope that doest hold her back a la Jack Wilshere, Jack Grealish, Luke Shaw, Ross Barkley etc.

Edited Friday at 11:47 by Marsdinho

[SWLondon Saint]

1 hour ago, Marsdinho said:

She doesnt seem the sharpest tool in the box, hope that doest hold her back a la Jack Wilshere, Jack Grealish, Luke Shaw, Ross Barkley etc.

She's clearly technically a level above most of the women, probably from playing with her brother and boys for so long when younger, but she does also seem to drift worryingly at a lot of points and seems a bit casual in possession. But then she also does some top drawer stuff, I remember one volleyed goal that any player male or female would've been proud of.

[SWLondon Saint]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

That says more about the idiocy of Robyn Cowan than anything about Lauren James. Utterly abysmal commentator. 

Robyn Cowan to me is just average as a commentator, fairly inoffensive. But whoever was co-commentator last night was complete rubbish, half the time they were just describing what had just happened and the other half just spouting gushing compliments about the England players, couldn't offer even restrained criticism.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’ve just watched the penalty shootout 😂😂😂😂

[Sheaf Saint]

6 hours ago, Turkish said:

It’s definitely going to improve but the women’s game will always struggle to even be at the level of decent standard youth football, simple biology tells you that, the women might good technically  but the boys and men do everything and more that they do but with much more pace and power and as anyone will know operating at a higher speed is going to naturally make everything else better too, first touch, reactions etc so let’s just enjoy it for what it is and stop all the comparisons. 

There's a certain chap from the Channel Islands who would strongly disagree with that statement.

This is one of the things that I actually like most about women's football. The PL is now such that pace and power trumps everything, as we found out in a big way last season. Being technically good on the ball just isn't enough anymore, and players in the mould of MLT (and even David Beckham) would never make it in this day and age because they just wouldn't get the time on the ball they need to play their natural game. And that's a shame IMO, because it detracts from 'the beautiful game'.

In women's football though, that's not such an issue because they simply can't replicate that pace and power. So there's more time and space for technically gifted players to shine. The standard of technical ability in the women's game has improved massively over the last 5-10 years, and with so many more girls coming through at grass roots level now and much greater investment in youth level coaching, it's only going to get better (as you yourself acknowledge above). 

So yeah, let's enjoy it for what it is and stop comparing.

[SW11_Saint]

7 hours ago, skintsaint said:

This twatter account disagrees.

She was bloody awful last night (even before the godawful penalty). She has skill, no doubt, but thinks she’s a lot better than she is… 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I've always felt that the women's game is trying too hard to simply copy the men's one, rather than putting on a different product.

Smaller pitches, smaller goals, different kits, 80 minute games, maybe even outlawing heading, would, I think, give it some really good USPs.

I've found that the difference in physicality already gives it USP's. The tactics are adjusting for the differences. So, you get different passing options, positioning. Lots of intelligence being used to try and exploit the spaces, where there isn't the raw power to recover.

The first USP's I remember noticing were that play had continued through a half dozen crunching tackles with no feigning injury, no endless throw ins and no lip taken by the ref. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

Shit commentery and a shit pass. TBF Lauren James played pretty well apart from that. 

Yup, and a penalty that she shouldn't need the manager giving her stick for.

James is probably the squad's best player. Even with moments she's seemed a bit within herself, she's then linked up well with others. She's capable of doing the job anywhere in the final third. And doing it really well.

But it's finding that balance where Toone and Mead are similar that gives her a more definite role. James dropping deep, with Russo, was key in shifting the balance of the game. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Spain deserved winners against the hosts, Switzerland. A game where the 23rd seed played with one up. They tried to keep it as compact as possible to limit Spain's passing.  Spain had missed a penalty, and had a couple over the bar, but it mostly worked in frustrating them. It wasn't until the 66th minute that  Spain went ahead.

Spain's second goal had another moment of misfortune to it. The Swiss captain, Walti, didn't run into the ref. But the official was close enough that she changed her mind on where she was looking to pass the ball. The result was that she turned into a challenge. While she stopped, for a non existent foul, having given the ball away. Spain shot from outside the box and it was in. Walti's poor touch, at the other end, shortly after, only got her a yellow card, with that goal still on her mind.

Spain also managed to miss a second penalty, while the Swiss never really got to make a final push. Pilgrim made a difference for them as a sub. But she was still a lone outlet. The closing minutes consisted of Spanish possession, while the Swiss racked up an impressive tally of yellow cards to go with some late challenges. They got a straight red just before the end, when Maritza brought down Paralluelo, preventing a 1 on 1 with the keeper.

Spain are better in possession, patience and passing than England. But they also got frustrated against a tight defence. Unlike England, who have direct outlets in Hemp and Bronze as starters, with Kelly and Agyemang, as subs, Spain often looked to pass through where there was no space. Parallueo offered more of a target, when she came on. They also looked vulnerable to direct runs through the centre. Just part of them keeping a high line, and anticipating breaks down their flanks. 

[SW11_Saint]

23 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

There's a certain chap from the Channel Islands who would strongly disagree with that statement.

This is one of the things that I actually like most about women's football. The PL is now such that pace and power trumps everything, as we found out in a big way last season. Being technically good on the ball just isn't enough anymore, and players in the mould of MLT (and even David Beckham) would never make it in this day and age because they just wouldn't get the time on the ball they need to play their natural game. And that's a shame IMO, because it detracts from 'the beautiful game'.

In women's football though, that's not such an issue because they simply can't replicate that pace and power. So there's more time and space for technically gifted players to shine. The standard of technical ability in the women's game has improved massively over the last 5-10 years, and with so many more girls coming through at grass roots level now and much greater investment in youth level coaching, it's only going to get better (as you yourself acknowledge above). 

So yeah, let's enjoy it for what it is and stop comparing.

Exactly right. It’s synonymous with men and women’s tennis (Billie-Jean, Bobby Riggs aside...) they are two versions of the same sport. 

Not mutually exclusive, but men’s tennis increasingly much more about pace & power, women’s tennis can often be more artful. 

I have twins (boy & girl). Much preferred watching girls football, no egos, all about teamwork, technically much better. That’s said the girl was the better player and played at a much higher level (with the SFC Academy & development squad for 5 years).

At about 12 - prior to joining Saints - we were advised to put the girl into a boys team, did super well at that age (POTY twice), but later when Saints Development team played U15/16 boys JPL teams, they could match them for skill & technique, but not strength & power. 

 

Edited Saturday at 12:46 by SW11_Saint

[OldNick]

Whilst the penalties against Sweden were pathetic(except for the 3 that we scored) you have to admire the grit of Lucy Bronze, with her John Terry like putting her head where it hurts, and the decent crosses Chloe Kelly put in. As for Lauren James OMG so overrated

Edited Saturday at 13:53 by OldNick

[steve green]

On 18/07/2025 at 14:00, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve just watched the penalty shootout 😂😂😂😂

 

It was something like AI might dish up if you asked for one.

For some reason it reminded me of -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb0KC7BEw4Y

For the somewhat random quality.

[trousers]

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, OldNick said:

Whilst the penalties against Sweden were pathetic(except for the 3 that we scored) you have to admire the grit of Lucy Bronze, with her John Terry like putting her head where it hurts, and the decent crosses Chloe Kelly put in. As for Lauren James OMG so overrated

Kelly is a proper old fashioned winger which has sadly died out in the mens game. Crosses like that are a joy to watch. 

[SW11_Saint]

Why the hell is that German defender complaining? Most blatant pen/red you could get! 

[SWLondon Saint]

23 minutes ago, SW11_Saint said:

Why the hell is that German defender complaining? Most blatant pen/red you could get! 

Wow, looks like Cap'n Jack has been busier than we thought with his defensive coaching masterclasses on how to hair pull in the age of VAR...

[Holmes_and_Watson]

9 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Wow, looks like Cap'n Jack has been busier than we thought with his defensive coaching masterclasses on how to hair pull in the age of VAR...

Somehow, the French player stayed on her feet, and just put out her arms in exasperation at the hair pull. Contrast with screaming man-child Cucurella rolling about. 

A women's football selling point, as discussed above.

[Badger]

33 minutes ago, SWLondon Saint said:

Wow, looks like Cap'n Jack has been busier than we thought with his defensive coaching masterclasses on how to hair pull in the age of VAR...

First thought, is whether this incident involved the German captain, Minge. 

[SW11_Saint]

47 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Somehow, the French player stayed on her feet, and just put out her arms in exasperation at the hair pull. Contrast with screaming man-child Cucurella rolling about. 

A women's football selling point, as discussed above.

For a much less aggressive hair tug too! 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Ten woman Germany frustrating France, and into extra time. Germany had a penalty saved, that would have won it for them. At the time, I was thinking that, even if they scored France would get level. But they have done really well at the back. France did put the ball in the net, but VAR made the right call.

When Cascanino wasn't enough to stretch the play, they brought on Baltimore. But the Germans countered that. Cascanino then went off to bring in a more central threat in Malard. But Germany happier to be compact in the middle.

France still have that numerical advantage. But Brand is capable of creating, and there's always pens.

 

[Dr Who?]

What a save, by Berger! 

Edited Saturday at 21:19 by Dr Who?

[Dr Who?]

Nifty footwork there by the French! 😮 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

5 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

What a save, by Berger! 

She's having a good game, with good positioning, but also using that experience to relieve the pressure.

Hoffman must have been tired, but I was still surprised Germany took her off. She was key on the occasions did get the ball up the park. Even Brand was racing back to make important tackles at the end of that first half of extra time.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Malard hit the bar with seconds left. That would have been harsh. Germany worked so hard to get to pens. France just didn't have a way of getting through.

Earlier, the camera showed Berger's water bottle with faces and likely penalty spots. Really shouldn't be doing that.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

Always harsh to go out on penalties, but Germany fought really hard to get to that.

Berger's water bottle got shown again. ITV said they'd "analysed it." And the information on it, proved accurate enough. Not the sort of thing to show, if it can get communicated to a bench. Presumably, it didn't make it onto the big screen. If it did, and France stuck to it, then silly them.

Germany had worked so hard, that their subs struggled to match the intensity. France have plenty of top players, and will regret no putting more direct, physical pressure on the German backline. It's something Sweden do well, and they could have learned from.

Speaking of learning, a lot more penalties aimed higher, to good effect.

As a postscript to this one, no doubt the French manager will get stick for the players he dropped. I recall reading one is just waiting to tell her story.

[Whitey Grandad]

9 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Always harsh to go out on penalties, but Germany fought really hard to get to that.

Berger's water bottle got shown again. ITV said they'd "analysed it." And the information on it, proved accurate enough. Not the sort of thing to show, if it can get communicated to a bench. Presumably, it didn't make it onto the big screen. If it did, and France stuck to it, then silly them.

Germany had worked so hard, that their subs struggled to match the intensity. France have plenty of top players, and will regret no putting more direct, physical pressure on the German backline. It's something Sweden do well, and they could have learned from.

Speaking of learning, a lot more penalties aimed higher, to good effect.

As a postscript to this one, no doubt the French manager will get stick for the players he dropped. I recall reading one is just waiting to tell her story.

“Heav’n has no rage like love to hatred turn’d, nor hell a fury like a woman scorn’d”

William Congreve

[rallyboy]

France picked a side lacking experience, they had no Plan B for breaking down a resolute defence and they didn't bother to practice penalties.

Au revoir.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

29 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

France picked a side lacking experience, they had no Plan B for breaking down a resolute defence and they didn't bother to practice penalties.

Au revoir.

There weren't many corners. But Renard never needed many to cause chaos. Malard was as close to a target as their thinking got, and she didn't disrupt their defence.

It was odd to hear that because they felt they over practiced penalties before, they didn't insist on practicing this time. It was left to individual choice after training. 

[Doctoroncall]

24 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

There weren't many corners. But Renard never needed many to cause chaos. Malard was as close to a target as their thinking got, and she didn't disrupt their defence.

It was odd to hear that because they felt they over practiced penalties before, they didn't insist on practicing this time. It was left to individual choice after training. 

Do you know what they were doing to over practice the penalties?  Seems bizarre as generally practice is good, perhaps they didn’t create the right conditions, have some risks from taking a penalty?

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

Do you know what they were doing to over practice the penalties?  Seems bizarre as generally practice is good, perhaps they didn’t create the right conditions, have some risks from taking a penalty?

As a nation, they feel they've underachieved for 15 years, and pen shootouts haven't gone their way

Euros 2013:Lost pen shootout to Denmark

World Cup 2015: Lost pen shootout to Germany

World Cup 2023: Lost pen shootout to Australia

That last one is the key one here. That was under the current manager, and they had drilled for penalties in training. It took 20 pens for Australia to win 7-6.

Note that going in to this tournament, Bonadei has emphasised his refusal to do the same things to get the same results. That applied not only to dropping some experience, but to his approach to penalties.

"We worked a lot on (penalties) before the 2023 World Cup in a specific way, and this time, I preferred not to overload them with this too much, because we don't know how it happens," Bonadei told reporters.

"Last night, we saw players who were really under pressure. And, yes, you can actually put them under pressure during the training, but it's not the same as during the game. When it's the game, when they are tired, when there's a pressure of the audience, maybe it can be completely different.

"The players do it in an individual way with their own pace at the end of every session, sometimes they try two, three, four, or five penalties, but it's very difficult to recreate the context of the game."

It might not replicate game pressure, but repeatedly putting pens right in the bottom or top corner, does make you better at doing it when you need to.