Universities "blacklisting" books to protect students.......

[badgerx16]

A report in The Times says that many universities in the UK are removing books from reading lists, or issuing warnings about their content, to "protect" the sensibilities of students.  For instance "The Underground Railroad" had been removed from use as it depicts slavery. Authors whose works have either been blacklisted or had warnings posted include Shakespeare, Chaucer, Dickens, Emily Brontë, Agatha Christie, and Jane Austen.

Is this the new battleground for Wokeism ? Isn't the point of a university education to challenge and be challenged ?

 

When do they start burning the books ?

 

 

[buctootim]

The whole point of a university is to expose students to new and challenging ideas and views. That’s the only way you can truly form your own view of the world rather than what you absorbed from your parents or peer group.  If you take that away and only offer an approved selection you aren’t fundamentally different from authoritarian states 

Edited 10 August, 2022 by buctootim

[badgerx16]

6 minutes ago, buctootim said:

The whole point of a university is to expose students to new and challenging ideas and views. That’s the only way you can truly form your own view if the world rather than what your absorbed from your parents or peer group.  If you take that away and only offer a selected , approved selection  essentially you aren’t fundamentally different from authoritarian states 

If you can't have books about slavery, when do you stop having books about the Holocaust ?

[buctootim]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

If you can't have books about slavery, when do you stop having books about the Holocaust ?

Exactly. And if you don’t have books about the reality and consequences of both how does the new generation  realise it’s probably not a good idea to do it again 

[whelk]

Is this actually happening and not a scare story from the press to scare into Truss’s bosom?

Academia is the worst for this sort of thing though. What goes on on some of US campuses is troubling. 

[farawaysaint]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

The whole point of a university is to expose students to new and challenging ideas and views. That’s the only way you can truly form your own view of the world rather than what you absorbed from your parents or peer group.  If you take that away and only offer an approved selection you aren’t fundamentally different from authoritarian states 

The point of universities is to teach students on a certain topic.

If I wanted to widen my views rather than spending 13,000 on uni I would pay to go to Thailand and experience the local erm culture.

[Lighthouse]

It’ll have the affect of constantly disinfecting your child’s toys and hands. When they eventually do get exposed to something properly nasty, they’ll be I’ll equipped to cope. There was a story from Canada a few years ago about a teacher who was suspended for showing a debate on gender featuring Jordan Peterson. Whatever you think of that issue, the fact that they didn’t want students to be exposed to a debate is really quite alarming.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

A report in The Times says that many universities in the UK are removing books from reading lists, or issuing warnings about their content, to "protect" the sensibilities of students.  For instance "The Underground Railroad" had been removed from use as it depicts slavery. Authors whose works have either been blacklisted or had warnings posted include Shakespeare, Chaucer, Dickens, Emily Brontë, Agatha Christie, and Jane Austen.

Is this the new battleground for Wokeism ? Isn't the point of a university education to challenge and be challenged ?

 

When do they start burning the books ?

 

 

Santising reading lists to prevent people reading about past attrocities is literally a right wing tactic and literally the opposite of woke.

Do people just read stuff and go "must be woke"?

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, farawaysaint said:

The point of universities is to teach students on a certain topic.

Depends on the course. For most science degrees that's largely true but for subjects like economics, politics, law, planning, English, almost any kind of research and even architecture its more about learning critical thinking so that you are able to able to interpret conflicting data, ideas and theories and make a reasoned judgement about the way forward.    

Edited 10 August, 2022 by buctootim

[RedArmy]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Santising reading lists to prevent people reading about past attrocities is literally a right wing tactic and literally the opposite of woke.

Do people just read stuff and go "must be woke"?

Yeah the universities are definitely controlled by the right wing aren’t they? 🤡 

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Santising reading lists to prevent people reading about past attrocities is literally a right wing tactic and literally the opposite of woke.

Do people just read stuff and go "must be woke"?

The point was that Universities were banning books because of the fear of offending Gen Z.  I've no idea if books actually are being banned, or whether the claims are misleading, all sounds a bit like bollocks, but if it is the case then it does fall into the woke debate.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

35 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

The point was that Universities were banning books because of the fear of offending Gen Z.  I've no idea if books actually are being banned, or whether the claims are misleading, all sounds a bit like bollocks, but if it is the case then it does fall into the woke debate.

Maybe Gen Z are too sensitive for slavery, but that definitely is nothing to do with "being woke".  By definition "woke-ness" is about highlighting historical injustices.

I think people just lazily assume anything against the norm is woke nowadays rather than thinking.

[Baird of the land]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Santising reading lists to prevent people reading about past attrocities is literally a right wing tactic and literally the opposite of woke.

Do people just read stuff and go "must be woke"?

Don't really see. Wokeists tend to be very illiberal & desperate to shut down anything that doesn't reflect their viewpoint.

[AlexLaw76]

Some uni's have been banning all sorts of legitimate speakers in recent years, so this is no surprise.

Trouble is, the people doing this will shit the bed when the same process goes equally in the other direction.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

Don't really see. Wokeists tend to be very illiberal & desperate to shut down anything that doesn't reflect their viewpoint.

You genuinely think "wokeists" don't believe people should read about slavery?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

This isn't about "woke-ism" which is the rebellion against injustice/rage against the machine etc.

This is "the great sanitised youth" which is young people today being cradled as a result of their parents generation being too anxious about everything.

They're not the same thing, it baffles me that people are unable to differentiate.

[rallyboy]

A made-up news story to distract and trigger a debate about anything other than the energy crisis and government chaos and corruption.

It seems that a newspaper carried out its own special audit by sending out 300 foi requests and sadly discovered that only two books have been highlighted as a bit dated.

Having seen their story fall at the first they decided to attack academics anyway and lump them in with our entire legal system that is now labelled as leftie, woke and full of traitors.

Just the latest episode from the great spin machine, drip-feeding government messages to the simple since 2010.

 

[AlexLaw76]

45 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

A made-up news story to distract and trigger a debate about anything other than the energy crisis and government chaos and corruption.

It seems that a newspaper carried out its own special audit by sending out 300 foi requests and sadly discovered that only two books have been highlighted as a bit dated.

Having seen their story fall at the first they decided to attack academics anyway and lump them in with our entire legal system that is now labelled as leftie, woke and full of traitors.

Just the latest episode from the great spin machine, drip-feeding government messages to the simple since 2010.

 

you say 2, LBC says over 1000

who is telling the truth?

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/universities-backlash-trigger-warnings-on-english-literature-texts/

Given you are a massive hysterical tart, my guess is LBC

Edited 10 August, 2022 by AlexLaw76

[rallyboy]

Slightly patronising to kneejerk abusive simpletons? Oh yeah, that's me, guilty as charged - but hysterical, nah, don't be silly. 😎

Anyway, the whole affair was aimed at distracting the hard of thinking and it seems to have hit the target, so job done.

And all the best to those people attempting grammar and punctuation courses at this difficult time.

 

[Baird of the land]

7 hours ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

You genuinely think "wokeists" don't believe people should read about slavery?

I believe they clearly want to control the narrative of how people read about it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

27 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I believe they clearly want to control the narrative of how people read about it.

And what they read about it, and the conclusions they should draw from those readings.

My fathers generation had the glory of Empire rammed down their throats by the establishment, and I fear my grandchildren will have woke pony rammed down theirs. 

[Patrick Bateman]

The more I think about it, the more I think North Korea would be nice. Everyone has the same house, same car, same food, no one complains and gets on with their lives. Most of the problems now are down to capitalism (see the cost of living thread), jealously and wanting to complain about everything.

Maybe I'm getting old, but f**k me wouldn't life be easier if we all just got on with the same robotic actions every day, emerging from the same house with the same car? 

[Saint in Paradise]

I suspect that 90% of people who exist in North Korea don't own a car, house or eat decent food. Anyone who complains together with

their extended family will be treated very harshly. 

Only that insane despot leader, his family and favorite military elite live a decent life and that ends very quickly if they upset "dear leader"

[whelk]

Roald Dahl’s books having a rewrite now. Heaven forbid a fat kid being offended by reading about another fat kid

[badgerx16]

31 minutes ago, whelk said:

Roald Dahl’s books having a rewrite now. Heaven forbid a fat kid being offended by reading about another fat kid

Which is worse though ?

Originally Augustus Gloop is "fat", now he is "enormous".

 

Also, what is wrong with the BFG having a black coat ? Or Mary going "as white as a sheet" ?

[revolution saint]

12 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I'm non binary and love Portsmouth Football Club.

I've amended your message to better reflect the world we live in today.  You're welcome.

[badgerx16]

44 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

I've amended your message to better reflect the world we live in today.  You're welcome.

The lawsuit for defamation is in the post.

 

 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Which is worse though ?

Originally Augustus Gloop is "fat", now he is "enormous".

 

Also, what is wrong with the BFG having a black coat ? Or Mary going "as white as a sheet" ?

Sheets and coats come in so many different patterns and colours. I embrace the additional chapters, where the main characters, of many different shapes and sizes, go shopping for clothing and bed linen. It's what the authors would have wanted. 🙂

[ashnats]

Reading lists change all the time. Not news.

[SotonianWill]

On wokeism

Trying to find a right leaning book in the university library is a hard find, they do however have about 100 copies of Marx communist manifesto and every other marx work so you’re spoilt for choice if you want to be radicalised. Sadly not even joking. Not related to reading lists but also all the lectures now manage to find a way to bash everyone for the british empire despite it being the fault of ancestors, every single topic covered reverts to bashing of britain… £9,000 a year… Forced to learn that gender is politcal (it really isn’t but no offence to anyone on here who’s opposed to this of course)

had one lecture the other day in which the lecturer tried to call marx himself racist as he didn’t mention black people in his work? if that was the case then you could call anyone mentioning any topic not relating to race racist?

 

[John Boy Saint]

 Sorry it’s the Mail - wife buys it on Saturday for the TV and the puzzles 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11764775/Yes-Minister-flagged-beleaguered-counter-terror-Prevent-scheme.html

Worlds going to shit

[Holmes_and_Watson]

9 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

 Sorry it’s the Mail - wife buys it on Saturday for the TV and the puzzles 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11764775/Yes-Minister-flagged-beleaguered-counter-terror-Prevent-scheme.html

Worlds going to shit

Oh heck. I've just recently listened to all yes minister audios. Only a matter of time before I'm signing up to swivel-eyed groups. Or not. Idiots. 🙂

[whelk]

13 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

 Sorry it’s the Mail - wife buys it on Saturday for the TV and the puzzles 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11764775/Yes-Minister-flagged-beleaguered-counter-terror-Prevent-scheme.html

Worlds going to shit

Create a department and they find things to do

[Baird of the land]

I find the whole changing language in dahl's books repugnant. I find it scary the examples that puffin consider unprintable too.

[Baird of the land]

On 22/02/2023 at 17:56, Baird of the land said:

I find the whole changing language in dahl's books repugnant. I find it scary the examples that puffin consider unprintable too.

Now wondering if the whole thing was a publicity ploy (given they now say they are releasing the original worded version too)

[Dark Munster]

On 10/08/2022 at 02:11, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Santising reading lists to prevent people reading about past attrocities is literally a right wing tactic and literally the opposite of woke.

Do people just read stuff and go "must be woke"?

I think the correct spelling is DeSantising. 😉

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ron-desantis-book-bans-florida-b2270116.html

Ron DeSatan, Republican governor of Florida.

[AlexLaw76]

James Bond novels to be re-written in order to 'protect readers'

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

James Bond novels to be re-written in order to 'protect readers'

Looking forward to the point where all Delldays/Batman/AlexLaw76 posts on SaintsWeb are rewritten in order to “protect readers”.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

James Bond novels to be re-written in order to 'protect readers'

From what ?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

On 25/02/2023 at 17:32, Baird of the land said:

Now wondering if the whole thing was a publicity ploy (given they now say they are releasing the original worded version too)

Literally the whole thing was a publicity ploy.  Country's full of morons getting angry about it, worked perfectly

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Literally the whole thing was a publicity ploy.  Country's full of morons getting angry about it, worked perfectly

are you saying this is not happening at all?

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Literally the whole thing was a publicity ploy.  Country's full of morons getting angry about it, worked perfectly

Evidence ?

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

are you saying this is not happening at all?

It’s been happening for years. Go check out the fuss over Enid Blyton books which even  goes back to the time they were published. Certain things will always trigger certain people. Surely, as one of the most often triggered people on this forum, you of all people should know that!

[AlexLaw76]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

It’s been happening for years. Go check out the fuss over Enid Blyton books which even  goes back to the time they were published. Certain things will always trigger certain people. Surely, as one of the most often triggered people on this forum, you of all people should know that!

The re-written books never protected your worldly view, you daft racist

[Southner]

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Evidence ?

It's been blacklisted. 

[The Juice]

Can I just throw in my two pence worth here?

Without giving too much of myself away, I hold an academic role at a university and any notion that books are being 'black listed' is utter nonsense and, I would suggest, a grotesque reframing of a very simply and well-considered scheme (most likely to prompt an adverse response towards universities from the general public - this has an ideological and political function), as follows:

Some texts (such as the aforementioned Whitehead, Novel) include graphic depictions of suicide. Accordingly some (few) universities are choosing to include trigger warnings on the covers of these books so that students will be aware, prior to reading, that there is content within that could speak to past traumas/experiences. This may also be true to racialised language and or sexual assault/rape. Nothing is being 'censored', by definition. 

As to the comment that universities are somehow left-wing institutions, you only need to look at the marketisation of the HE sector and how many research/academic jobs have become akin to the gig economy. This is not serving an ideological function but, rather, is a natural result of opening up universities to the forces of the free market. So many now focus mainly on maximising outcomes in order to maintain positions in league tables and, accordingly, look to increase workloads whilst decreasing pay/employment rights. This is why many in HE maintain strike action. However, most of the colleagues I know would align themselves with the political left not because of some objective political identity but, simply, having spent their professional careers studying the intrinsic impact of social policy, recognise how damaging conservative politics and neoliberal economic policies are to most in the country. 

 

[Saint in Paradise]

3 hours ago, The Juice said:

Can I just throw in my two pence worth here?

Without giving too much of myself away, I hold an academic role at a university and any notion that books are being 'black listed' is utter nonsense and, I would suggest, a grotesque reframing of a very simply and well-considered scheme (most likely to prompt an adverse response towards universities from the general public - this has an ideological and political function), as follows:

Some texts (such as the aforementioned Whitehead, Novel) include graphic depictions of suicide. Accordingly some (few) universities are choosing to include trigger warnings on the covers of these books so that students will be aware, prior to reading, that there is content within that could speak to past traumas/experiences. This may also be true to racialised language and or sexual assault/rape. Nothing is being 'censored', by definition. 

 

Whilst trying to protect young children from nasty stuff is acceptable trying to protect so called adults from the real world is the height of stupidity.

The poor dears need to know about such despicable human behaviour so that if they are confronted by certain events they can protect themselves.

Otherwise they could freeze from fear etc.

[Southner]

On 27/02/2023 at 06:26, AlexLaw76 said:

James Bond novels to be re-written in order to 'protect readers'

"Non-alcaholic Martini, stirred, not shaken. Otherwise it'll give me hiccups."

[rallyboy]

Them with the Golden Gun.

[Lighthouse]

The Spy who asked for my Explicit Consent.