Will Still

[davefizzy14]

Welcome onboard Will 😊 very excited by this appointment. Great to get this done early so we can plan ahead for the summer. 

[Willo of Whiteley]

Kind of looking forward to seeing some of the Russell Martin fan-boy players leave this summer.

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

Kind of looking forward to seeing some of the Russell Martin fan-boy players leave this summer.

Some may be hard to shift. Even if they have 40% wage reductions from PL level wages like we had last relegation, their wages will still be big for any club that would want them.

[gio1saints]

Will Still makes use of football data to inform some or many of his football managing decisions. Applied retrospectively to every match of this season ( his homework no doubt) I’ve no doubt some clear and obvious priorities will emerge. And the kinds of players he wants/needs for the Championship. 

The Championship IS different to the EPL but I think the two biggest areas he should prioritise are (1) improvement in our set piece play (2) improvement in our defensive work. These are basic coaching things which I think he should be very good and right up to date with contemporary thinking on. 
 

 

 

[obelisk]

10 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

The Championship IS different to the EPL but I think the two biggest areas he should prioritise are (1) improvement in our set piece play (2) improvement in our defensive work. These are basic coaching things which I think he should be very good and right up to date with contemporary thinking on. 
 

 

 

Not forgetting (3) improvements in our attacking play where there's been a serious lack of nous and composure and (4) better fitness/strength that is something even RM admitted was a failure on his part.

This appointment has made me feel strangely optimistic about Saints prospects.

[trousers]

...

Edited May 25 by trousers

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Some may be hard to shift. Even if they have 40% wage reductions from PL level wages like we had last relegation, their wages will still be big for any club that would want them.

Would loaning them out and subsidising their wages be an option?

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

Just had this text come in from one of my French chums:

"Mon aéroglisseur est plein d'anguilles"

Make of that what you Will (crap pun intended)

Very Eric Cantona-esque...

[Saint Fan CaM]

43 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Will Still makes use of football data to inform some or many of his football managing decisions. Applied retrospectively to every match of this season ( his homework no doubt) I’ve no doubt some clear and obvious priorities will emerge. And the kinds of players he wants/needs for the Championship. 

The Championship IS different to the EPL but I think the two biggest areas he should prioritise are (1) improvement in our set piece play (2) improvement in our defensive work. These are basic coaching things which I think he should be very good and right up to date with contemporary thinking on. 
 

 

 

Yes these things are important but not a priority for me. The number one issue that needs addressing is how to attack and score goals - an attribute that has been woefully neglected and missing from our play. Goals win games.

There is one common denominator in ALL of these things though - movement (or in our case lack of). In defence, players stood ball-watching or not closing down to press. At set plays (particularly corners), players are like statues with no one running onto balls into the box. In attack, even if there’s a quick break by one or even two players, inevitably there will be a turning back to pass sideways or more often backwards, eventually resulting in 11 oppo players behind the ball. Interestingly this can be rectified by good coaching, but it’s essential that players have the stamina and technique to deliver that on matchday and there are far too many squad players that just don’t have it in them so they’ve gotta go.

Edited May 25 by Saint Fan CaM
Clarification

[trousers]

1 hour ago, goodymatt said:

Interesting comment on Rohl here: 

Sheffield Wednesday manager Danny Rohl was previously linked with the Saints job, but the compensation package to move to a club within the same division was thought to be too expensive.

i think he also wants a top league job as quoted elsewhere but interesting if we did chose Still due to compensation values.

If I was a cynic, I'd now be banging on about how we've gone for the cheaper option rather than holding out for our first choice. But, as I'm first and foremost a pragmatist, on balance I think I'd prefer getting our second choice onboard in a timely manner versus a protracted negotiation for our first choice. So count me into the Will Still optimist club. 

 

Edited May 25 by trousers

[S-Clarke]

I can only really go on what I've seen across YouTube, some of his interviews, videos, tactical analysis by broadcasters etc and he seems to know what he's doing.

I'd say I'm really intrigued by this appointment. It could be genius, it could also be way, way too much for someone as young as him. What I will say though is that he does come across much older than he actually is, so I think he's got a bit of a wise head on him.

One of the key bits I took away from one of his interviews was him admitting he has to adapt, he always has to adapt as things change. That line alone was fricking refreshing it has to be said. We can't be wedded to a specific philosophy and never turn away from that, we need to be adaptable and the best way to be adaptable is to fill your squad with pace and power and have a manager who isn't frightened to adapt with that as he goes.

As others have said, recruitment is key in terms of what we sell and who we replace those with. We will sell a big chunk I think, so we've just to use that opportunity to create a strong group. There are good PL level players who are happy to drop down if we scout correctly, and looking at the likes of Manor Solomon this season at Leeds and even Sunderland snapping up Enzo Le Fae, then we should be able to do it.

[Saint Fan CaM]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

If I was a cynic, I'd now be banging on about how we've gone for the cheaper option rather than holding out for our first choice. But, as I'm first and foremost a pragmatist, on balance I think I'd prefer getting our second choice onboard in a timely manner versus a protracted negotiation for our first choice. So count me into the Will Still optimist club. 

 

Genuine question - do we know that Still was the second choice? I would suggest that he and Rohl were the front runners, but that Still ticked as many boxes if not more than Rohl. It could be argued that with another 3 years under his belt at a decent sized club, Still would be out of our reach, so for that reason I reckon this is a risk perhaps but a risk worth taking and no worse than appointing Rohl.

[Matthew Le God]

19 minutes ago, trousers said:

Would loaning them out and subsidising their wages be an option?

That might be the last resort option to get them out.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

That might be the last resort option to get them out.

Who are we talking about here?

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

That might be the last resort option to get them out.

I think we'll see that happening with a few players this summer, we've made some poor choices so we won't get what we want $$ wise, so the club will probably see it sensible to loan them out, hope their value increases and take it from there. Likelihood is that won't, as we saw with the likes of Boufal, Carillo and Hoedt...but we hold out hope.

[Saint Fan CaM]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

That might be the last resort option to get them out.

Are player contracts renegotiated when they go on loan - i.e. does the contract term remain the same and continue to tick down?

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Who are we talking about here?

I'd suggest the likes of ABK, Onuachu, BBD, Sulemana could be hard to shift, as we'd have to find some crazed lunatic owners willing to put down $$ for them.

I know a couple only have 1 year left, but even more reason that potential suitors will wait IMO. I don't think any of those guys have shown they're worth any transfer fee based on their showings over the last few years.

[Fabrice29]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

I'd suggest the likes of ABK, Onuachu, BBD, Sulemana could be hard to shift, as we'd have to find some crazed lunatic owners willing to put down $$ for them.

I know a couple only have 1 year left, but even more reason that potential suitors will wait IMO. I don't think any of those guys have shown they're worth any transfer fee based on their showings over the last few years.

They were talking about RM fan boys weren’t they? Not sure you’d count any of those as that. Agree all a nightmare to get rid off though but the longer the contracts go down the cheaper they will get so fingers crossed someone takes a punt.

[Strangely Brown]

5 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Who are we talking about here?

Sulemana and Stephens 

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'd suggest the likes of ABK, Onuachu, BBD, Sulemana could be hard to shift, as we'd have to find some crazed lunatic owners willing to put down $$ for them.

I know a couple only have 1 year left, but even more reason that potential suitors will wait IMO. I don't think any of those guys have shown they're worth any transfer fee based on their showings over the last few years.

Thing is, even if it means we loan them for nothing and pay a high % of wages, it may pragmatic as it’ll be important for Still to get them off campus.

Edited May 25 by Saint Fan CaM

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Fabrice29 said:

They were talking about RM fan boys weren’t they? Not sure you’d count any of those as that. Agree all a nightmare to get rid off though but the longer the contracts go down the cheaper they will get so fingers crossed someone takes a punt.

I don't think we'd be looking to shift on Downes, if we're taking him as an example. He will have takers though, I don't think he'd be too hard to shift if we put him on the market.

I guess with him it depends on where Martin ends up, because he's obviously going to come and try to sign him if he ends up at Rangers or Leicester. And Martin's desperation for his mate may lead to us getting what we want $$$. I don't see Downes, Manning, THB and co as the problem though, as we will find suitors if we wanted. The struggle will be with the big buys we've made from Foreign leagues.

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Sulemana and Stephens 

Can’t see Stephens going anywhere this summer and anyone expecting so should probably start preparing for that eventuality now. 

[Chez]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Are player contracts renegotiated when they go on loan - i.e. does the contract term remain the same and continue to tick down?

No, contracts are not usually renegotiated. If they have 2 years left of their contract, go out on loan for a year, then, when they return, they will have one more year remaining.

[Fabrice29]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't think we'd be looking to shift on Downes, if we're taking him as an example. He will have takers though, I don't think he'd be too hard to shift if we put him on the market.

I guess with him it depends on where Martin ends up, because he's obviously going to come and try to sign him if he ends up at Rangers or Leicester. And Martin's desperation for his mate may lead to us getting what we want $$$. I don't see Downes, Manning, THB and co as the problem though, as we will find suitors if we wanted. The struggle will be with the big buys we've made from Foreign leagues.

That’s kind of why I asked who they were talking about. Suppose Ryan Fraser is the only ‘RM fan boy’ we really should be looking to move on. Downes is one of our best players and I’ll be surprised if we look to sell him on and even more surprised if it’s to a rival who have some financial books to sort out and have Harry Winks in their squad already. Rangers maybe if Martin goes there but don’t see that happening tbh. THB will go but don’t have him down as a negative. Manning more than capable of contributing and has even said himself he’s staying. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 minute ago, Chez said:

No, contracts are not usually renegotiated. If they have 2 years left of their contract, go out on loan for a year, then, when they return, they will have one more year remaining.

Good news in terms of getting rid of deadwood, but not so good news for the Finance Director.

[trousers]

17 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Genuine question - do we know that Still was the second choice?

No, I don't think we do know... I'm just reading between the lines. 

[StrangelyBrown]

55 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Will Still makes use of football data to inform some or many of his football managing decisions. Applied retrospectively to every match of this season ( his homework no doubt) I’ve no doubt some clear and obvious priorities will emerge. And the kinds of players he wants/needs for the Championship. 

The Championship IS different to the EPL but I think the two biggest areas he should prioritise are (1) improvement in our set piece play (2) improvement in our defensive work. These are basic coaching things which I think he should be very good and right up to date with contemporary thinking on. 
 

 

 

I'm not sure you need data to see that we're shit at defending and shit at set pieces. Just eyes and a very vague knowledge of the game is good enough.

Hopefully he's also able to spot that we are woefully inept at scoring goals!

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

That’s kind of why I asked who they were talking about. Suppose Ryan Fraser is the only ‘RM fan boy’ we really should be looking to move on. Downes is one of our best players and I’ll be surprised if we look to sell him on and even more surprised if it’s to a rival who have some financial books to sort out and have Harry Winks in their squad already. Rangers maybe if Martin goes there but don’t see that happening tbh. THB will go but don’t have him down as a negative. Manning more than capable of contributing and has even said himself he’s staying. 

I forgot about Fraser actually, good question on wtf we do with him. I think we extracted the last useful few months from his career, I'm not sure he's capable anymore - I hope we only gave him a 2 year deal? I can't remember. That was a silly signing really, the club should have known we needed better than him in July.

Manning and Wellington as LB's next season is more than good enough. RB with Bree and maybe Kesler-Hayden from Villa, who is a pretty close clone to KWP.

Edited May 25 by S-Clarke

[CB Fry]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

No, I don't think we do know... I'm just reading between the lines. 

I think completely unreasonable to position a manager that we've appointed before the season is out as a "second choice". If this was the end of July, after we had been pursuing other targets, maybe. But not now.

Edited May 25 by CB Fry

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Sulemana and Stephens 

 

12 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Can’t see Stephens going anywhere this summer and anyone expecting so should probably start preparing for that eventuality now. 

Was just about to post that my hunch is that Stephens is a Will Still kinda player (heart on sleeve etc). So, yep, I'd be surprised if Stephens goes...

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I think completely unreasonable to position a manager that we've appointed before the season is out as a "second choice". If this was the end of July, after we had been pursuing other targets, maybe. But not now.

Fair point 👍 

(as I say, I'm just reading between the lines, which means there's every likelihood that my hypothesis is incorrect... which won't be the first time! ) 

Edited May 25 by trousers

[Fabrice29]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Was just about to post that my hunch is that Stephens is a Will Still kinda player (heart on sleeve etc). So, yep, I'd be surprised if Stephens goes...

I actually don’t think it’s that so much. I’ve no idea how he’ll fit but I don’t think you push out a captain if you’re a new manager unless there is a real cause to do so, and not being quite good enough isn’t that. 

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Fabrice29 said:

I actually don’t think it’s that so much. I’ve no idea how he’ll fit but I don’t think you push out a captain if you’re a new manager unless there is a real cause to do so, and not being quite good enough isn’t that. 

Yeah, good point 👍

[beatlesaint]

28 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

Can’t see Stephens going anywhere this summer and anyone expecting so should probably start preparing for that eventuality now. 

Well, if Russell does get a job, Leicester, it will be interesting to see if he comes in for Stephens. We will see if the way he spoke about him was just bullshit or if he really meant it. If he was serious he's gonna want to buy him and have him as his captain.

Thats the straw I'm clinging to anyway 😂

[austsaint]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

 

Was just about to post that my hunch is that Stephens is a Will Still kinda player (heart on sleeve etc). So, yep, I'd be surprised if Stephens goes...

I’m wondering how new manager Still is going to decide who goes, and who stays.   I’m assuming he hasn’t seen many Saints games to base his opinions on.   Who does he  take advice from; how many video replays does he watch?    Will he try to convince a gem like Fernandes to stay.     I’ll be majorly disappointed if players like Bree, Manning and Smallbone are in the frame to be starters, or even on the bench when August comes around.    How the new manager sorts out the many average players on our books is going to be his first major test.

[Fabrice29]

8 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Well, if Russell does get a job, Leicester, it will be interesting to see if he comes in for Stephens. We will see if the way he spoke about him was just bullshit or if he really meant it. If he was serious he's gonna want to buy him and have him as his captain.

Thats the straw I'm clinging to anyway 😂

What Martin liked about Stephens here is nothing he can give to Leicester. A love and passion for the club is what he referenced about Stephens here. Again, give up that straw. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

19 minutes ago, Fabrice29 said:

I actually don’t think it’s that so much. I’ve no idea how he’ll fit but I don’t think you push out a captain if you’re a new manager unless there is a real cause to do so, and not being quite good enough isn’t that. 

I'd be having a conversation with Stephens along the lines of you are welcome to stay for the year you have left, although you aren't going to be first choice. If a club comes in for you with a reasonable proposal, not going to stand in your way. 

[Saint_clark]

With Still coming in and looking at his style of play I think some of you are going to be disappointed if you think Sulemana and Onuachu are leaving. Two perfect examples of players who do well in a direct style of play transitioning from defence to attack as quick as possible.

[steve green]

28 minutes ago, austsaint said:

I’m wondering how new manager Still is going to decide who goes, and who stays.   I’m assuming he hasn’t seen many Saints games to base his opinions on.   Who does he  take advice from; how many video replays does he watch?    Will he try to convince a gem like Fernandes to stay.     I’ll be majorly disappointed if players like Bree, Manning and Smallbone are in the frame to be starters, or even on the bench when August comes around.    How the new manager sorts out the many average players on our books is going to be his first major test.

 

Got to pity the guy if he's going to re-watch all our games this season. A veritable feast of football.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, steve green said:

 

Got to pity the guy if he's going to re-watch all our games this season. A veritable feast of football.

He's probably labbing us up on Football Manager as we speak.

[miserableoldgit]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Just had this text come in from one of my French chums:

"Mon aéroglisseur est plein d'anguilles"

Make of that what you Will (crap pun intended)

 "When the seagulls follow the Hovercraft, it's because they think eels will be thrown into the sea,"

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Are player contracts renegotiated when they go on loan - i.e. does the contract term remain the same and continue to tick down?

It doesn't impact their contract at Saints.

[Suhari]

26 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

With Still coming in and looking at his style of play I think some of you are going to be disappointed if you think Sulemana and Onuachu are leaving. Two perfect examples of players who do well in a direct style of play transitioning from defence to attack as quick as possible.

I think Sulemana could be good for us, particularly in a more direct style. I do think he has potential; but he's so damn frustrating with the lack of end product (how long do you wait for 'potential' to become reality?) - I suspect his time here is up.

Onuachu would be a great option given the amount of crosses Still's teams seem to throw in; reckon he could score loads in teh Championship. Can't seem him as part of a pressing team though.

On a related note: Sugawara has shown himself capable of a very tasty cross. Would like to see him stick around (and to cut out the defensive stupidity of course).

 

[Mixedkebab]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

 

Was just about to post that my hunch is that Stephens is a Will Still kinda player (heart on sleeve etc). So, yep, I'd be surprised if Stephens goes...

That would be hugely depressing if yet another manager thinks Stephens is the answer.

if the lineup on the opening day features Bazunu (or McCarthy) and Stephens there will be grown men in tears 

Edited May 25 by Mixedkebab

[Galway saint]

No idea whether this is a good appointment or not. Its been quite a while since  we made a good appointment or indeed did anything right.

A lot depends on recruitment as we have so many shit players.

The first test for me will be whether he has Bazanu as No.1. If he is then that will be a big red flag for me as either he cant identify a poor keeper or he can but there is still interference from those running the club

[saintant]

Looking forward to Will Still's first official interview to hear his hopes and aspirations for the club and how he intends to set out to achieve whatever ambitions he has. Should be a fascinating insight into what we can expect.

[Saint_clark]

19 minutes ago, Suhari said:

I think Sulemana could be good for us, particularly in a more direct style. I do think he has potential; but he's so damn frustrating with the lack of end product (how long do you wait for 'potential' to become reality?) - I suspect his time here is up.

Onuachu would be a great option given the amount of crosses Still's teams seem to throw in; reckon he could score loads in teh Championship. Can't seem him as part of a pressing team though.

On a related note: Sugawara has shown himself capable of a very tasty cross. Would like to see him stick around (and to cut out the defensive stupidity of course).

 

Sugawaras defensive issues won't be as problematic in the championship. We need to focus on the obvious frailties in the team that need replacing - keeper, centre back, centre midfield. 

[Midfield_General]

@MindtheGab mentioned that Still's MNF appearance was a key factor. I'm very intrigued about that.

In this data-driven era, and with a business-critical decision to be made worth hundreds of millions of pounds, surely even SR are more organised than to pick a manager by just watching Sky until they stumble across someone who sounds clever doing a TV interview. 

Would love to know more about how his MNF appearance influenced or focused the thinking on Still, to the extent it made him our number one target. 

Edited May 25 by Midfield_General

[Colinjb]

4 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

@MindtheGab mentioned that Still's MNF appearance was a key factor. I'm very intrigued about that.

In this data-driven era, and with a business-critical decision to be made worth hundreds of millions of pounds, surely even SR are more organised than to pick a manager by just watching Sky until they stumble across someone who sounds clever doing a TV interview. 

Would love to know more about how his MNF appearance influenced or focused the thinking on Still, to the extent it made him our number one target. 

It did strike me, frankly that his appearance on MNF was a come and get me plea to any clubs watching. 

[Chez]

1 hour ago, austsaint said:

I’m wondering how new manager Still is going to decide who goes, and who stays.   I’m assuming he hasn’t seen many Saints games to base his opinions on.   Who does he  take advice from; how many video replays does he watch?    Will he try to convince a gem like Fernandes to stay.     I’ll be majorly disappointed if players like Bree, Manning and Smallbone are in the frame to be starters, or even on the bench when August comes around.    How the new manager sorts out the many average players on our books is going to be his first major test.

I would hope he watches every single one and then has clear thoughts as to what data he wants to back what he sees with his yes and hopefully we have the data analysis technology and structure in place to provide him with that information. 

However, even if he does all that, gets the information he needs to make good decisions, his hands will still be tied by player contracts and offers received for players. With so few players out of contract, the slate isn't exactly clean.