St Mary's Capacity Increase Likelihood

[Cleetus]

Hey everyone.    First time poster,  please be kind!

With the club spending plenty of money in-and-around the stadium to increase revenue,  which all makes sense to bring in more funds for PSR reasons.      I know that the stadium was designed with the option of increasing capacity further down the line.

Have a few questions on this:     Are there definite confirmed plans to increase the capacity at some point?    and if so,  to what final capacity?          Maybe one final question for discussion is do we need it?    32,000  seems about correct and im not sure we'd consistently fill a larger capacity (feel free to debate this one!!).

Jonboy H

Edited Wednesday at 02:04 by Cleetus

[SNSUN]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/9771448.saints-to-revamp-st-marys/

Artists impression from 2012 proposals and attached link. IIRC when St Mary's was built there were musings that the 3 sides of the Chapel, Kingsland and Northam could be expanded but not the Itchen. 

Personally I'm not sure there's much call for it at the moment, certainly not as a Championship club although we're still doing well to somewhat fill the stadium. Perhaps if we became an established Premier League side again pushing for Europe, but we didn't do that in the Koeman days when we were kissing the European spots so I'm not sure we'd necessarily do it now.

[OldNick]

I thought that there was a suggestion last season that if we sold a certain amount of season tickets the club would look to increase the capacity? Obviously that was before relegation!!!

[egg]

This has been done to death. Building costs, and materials, have gone through the roof. If there was a vague business case for it previously, I can't imagine there'd be any merit in it even if we were promoted and had fans banging on the doors for tickets. 

[OldNick]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

This has been done to death. Building costs, and materials, have gone through the roof. If there was a vague business case for it previously, I can't imagine there'd be any merit in it even if we were promoted and had fans banging on the doors for tickets. 

Long term planning perhaps, as the population grows there may be more call, I remember the naysayers when we were leaving the Dell that it would be too big. 

A few years managing to stay up would help, if the goons who bought the club had not truly messed up the first season and we had stayed up, the following seasons we would have been comfortable in the PL

[AlexLaw76]

The club brought it up recently didn't they? Something looking into etc?

No use if we are not in the premier league, or sat bottom of it. So I assume this is well and truly parked right now.

 

[skintsaint]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

This has been done to death. Building costs, and materials, have gone through the roof. If there was a vague business case for it previously, I can't imagine there'd be any merit in it even if we were promoted and had fans banging on the doors for tickets. 

Increase in the womens team following will be enough. If we can push it to 5k a week.

[bpsaint]

Wanker Lowe back in the day said to extend it would cost the same as it did to build it in the first place, and that’s the best part of 25 years ago so prices would be even more now. Realistically they’d put an extra stand on the kingsland and incorporate boxes to take the capacity to 40k, but it’d cost what £30-40 million? How long would that take to claw back?

[spyinthesky]

I think the club and us supporters have done a good job in more or less doubling the average attendances in the switch from The Dell to SMS.
Of course there was a 15,000 capacity limit at The Dell but I can remember being in a number of less than capacity games at our old ground.
Building SMS for £32m seems incredible value now when you look at the cost to restructure and build stadia today and even compared to modern transfer 'values'.
If Saints were able to become a competitive Premiership club and the 'gentrification' of the Itchen waterfront progresses in the next 5-10 years (I am relatively optimistic this will happen) then a financial case could be made for an increase in capacity at SMS, part of which are looking a bit tired atm.
Licensing an increased capacity by Soton Council is likely to be a challenge but I think the Council (of whatever colour) could see some merit in this, if there was creative solutions to the expected additional traffic  concerns.

[franniesTache]

I believe the hold up is in sourcing handlers for the monkey petting zoo, the old mush who looked after the smoking monkey at the zoo on the common has passed and finding someone trained in looking after them is proving hard to find.

Once that hurdle is crossed though the 70k flexible pricing stadium that some dream of will be a guarantee i'm sure

[Wsaint]

54 minutes ago, bpsaint said:

How long would that take to claw back?

Just sell Robinson next year, bosh, done.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, egg said:

This has been done to death. Building costs, and materials, have gone through the roof. If there was a vague business case for it previously, I can't imagine there'd be any merit in it even if we were promoted and had fans banging on the doors for tickets. 

Immediate repair costs to add on as well. 🙂

Not expanding it, is going to seem short sighted once we are established in the WSL.

[moonraker]

The original "new stadium" plan at Eastleigh was for 25k, most people thought that was adequate, the old adage, build and they will come has been proved pretty accurate in the case of St Marys.

[egg]

3 minutes ago, moonraker said:

The original "new stadium" plan at Eastleigh was for 25k, most people thought that was adequate, the old adage, build and they will come has been proved pretty accurate in the case of St Marys.

I reckon St Mary's, with us as a PL club, could sell more tickets. I don't doubt that. What I doubt is that the cost makes it justifiable. 

[VectisSaint]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

I think the club and us supporters have done a good job in more or less doubling the average attendances in the switch from The Dell to SMS.
Of course there was a 15,000 capacity limit at The Dell but I can remember being in a number of less than capacity games at our old ground.
Building SMS for £32m seems incredible value now when you look at the cost to restructure and build stadia today and even compared to modern transfer 'values'.
If Saints were able to become a competitive Premiership club and the 'gentrification' of the Itchen waterfront progresses in the next 5-10 years (I am relatively optimistic this will happen) then a financial case could be made for an increase in capacity at SMS, part of which are looking a bit tired atm.
Licensing an increased capacity by Soton Council is likely to be a challenge but I think the Council (of whatever colour) could see some merit in this, if there was creative solutions to the expected additional traffic  concerns.

I remember getting around 28-30k at The Dell regularly. The 15k capacity only came about because of the requirement for all seater stadia. We used to attract as many supporters as we do now.

[warsash saint]

32k is fine  ... if / when we are back in the Premiership, we don't need more tourists taking pictures all game !

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, warsash saint said:

32k is fine  ... if / when we are back in the Premiership, we don't need more tourists taking pictures all game !

Seaside B&B.

[spyinthesky]

On 10/09/2025 at 13:42, VectisSaint said:

I remember getting around 28-30k at The Dell regularly. The 15k capacity only came about because of the requirement for all seater stadia. We used to attract as many supporters as we do now.

You are correct that occasionally The Dell would accommodate crowds of up to 30,000 prior to the Taylor report but only twice in Saints history was there ever an average attendance over just over 25,000, for the season, before the move to SMS.

Edited yesterday at 19:58 by spyinthesky

[SotonianWill]

20 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

You are correct that occasionally The Dell would accommodate crowds of up to 30,000 prior to the Taylor report but only twice in Saints history was there ever an average attendance over just over 25,000, for the season, before the move to SMS.

What is the estimation for Channon’s testimonial?

[spyinthesky]

3 hours ago, SotonianWill said:

What is the estimation for Channon’s testimonial?

Must have been around the 32,000+ mark.
In all my many years supporting Saints at The Dell, I have never witnessed such overcrowding.
I was glad I managed to get a seat in the West Stand for the game.

[sad saints fan]

Man Utd  67/68 31033 in the Dell . I was 10 years old at the time and we had to breathe in as the person next to was breathing out . Think Utd had just won the European cup and I think we lost 3-0.

[moonraker]

32 minutes ago, sad saints fan said:

Man Utd  67/68 31033 in the Dell . I was 10 years old at the time and we had to breathe in as the person next to was breathing out . Think Utd had just won the European cup and I think we lost 3-0.

I remember that game, same age!

[Saint Scott]

On 10/09/2025 at 11:50, bpsaint said:

Wanker Lowe back in the day said to extend it would cost the same as it did to build it in the first place, and that’s the best part of 25 years ago so prices would be even more now. Realistically they’d put an extra stand on the kingsland and incorporate boxes to take the capacity to 40k, but it’d cost what £30-40 million? How long would that take to claw back?

Selling the naming rights to the ground would potentially cover the full cost at £30-40m

[suewhistle]

1 hour ago, moonraker said:

I remember that game, same age!

I thought, from memory, that the record crowd was 31,044!:-) At my age and height I didn't see much but at least we got in, just. The previous year my dad didn't believe my urging to be early and walk faster and I was most upset!

[OldNick]

11 hours ago, sad saints fan said:

Man Utd  67/68 31033 in the Dell . I was 10 years old at the time and we had to breathe in as the person next to was breathing out . Think Utd had just won the European cup and I think we lost 3-0.

Yep I was there with my brother , only 8. It was like sardines and the crush when the fans went forward, all standing those days. I was in the Archers right at the front wall. Amazing really that there wasnt a Hillsborough as the health and safety was pretty poor. Hold your breath until the crush eased. 

[OldNick]

On 10/09/2025 at 20:16, spyinthesky said:

You are correct that occasionally The Dell would accommodate crowds of up to 30,000 prior to the Taylor report but only twice in Saints history was there ever an average attendance over just over 25,000, for the season, before the move to SMS.

That is a surprise, but I will accept you are correct. Those games in the late 60's and early 70's when the London clubs came to town!! 

[OldNick]

12 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

Must have been around the 32,000+ mark.
In all my many years supporting Saints at The Dell, I have never witnessed such overcrowding.
I was glad I managed to get a seat in the West Stand for the game.

I was so naive,I never thought that there would be so many there that night. I went along thinking it would like any other testimonial where only the hardcore would turn up, but not realising what the FA cup win had done to the excitement and of course it was Mick Channons. I think Im right that Bobby Stokes was awarded a car on the pitch that day, he couldnt drive lol

[SotonianWill]

24 minutes ago, OldNick said:

I was so naive,I never thought that there would be so many there that night. I went along thinking it would like any other testimonial where only the hardcore would turn up, but not realising what the FA cup win had done to the excitement and of course it was Mick Channons. I think Im right that Bobby Stokes was awarded a car on the pitch that day, he couldnt drive lol

Yep, in the footage 

 

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, SotonianWill said:

Yep, in the footage 

 

Incredible memories, thanks for posting that up

[Graffito]

12 hours ago, moonraker said:

I remember that game, same age!

Snap

[Charlie Wayman]

 

Top 5 recorded attendances at The Dell (ranked)

Rank	Match (competition)	Date	Attendance
1	Southampton v Manchester United (Division 1)	8 Oct 1969	31,044
2	Southampton v West Bromwich Albion (Division 2)	23 Apr 1949	30,586
3	Southampton v Sunderland (FA Cup)	16 Jan 1937	30,380
4	Southampton v Tottenham Hotspur (Division 2)	8 Oct 1949	30,240
5	Southampton v Swindon Town (FA Cup 5th rd)	7 Feb 1948	29,134

Edited 10 hours ago by Charlie Wayman
I attended 4/5 of these games. The 48/49 season was my first taste of the Saints as a very young lad

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I know that increasing the capacity of St Mary's is on the club's radar with Dragan particularly keen. I have seen the artist's impression. As someone has pointed out spiralling building costs may have caused them to put plans on hold for now, but with an average gate not far off 31,000 I can see the benefit of 5,000 more seats. You can't stand still too long in football.

[Wurzel]

On 10/09/2025 at 11:50, bpsaint said:

Wanker Lowe back in the day said to extend it would cost the same as it did to build it in the first place, and that’s the best part of 25 years ago so prices would be even more now. Realistically they’d put an extra stand on the kingsland and incorporate boxes to take the capacity to 40k, but it’d cost what £30-40 million? How long would that take to claw back?

Sounds like it would take forever, but extra 8K based on £750 per season it would only take 5-6 years. Extra boxes/hospitality would make it even quicker

 

[egg]

13 hours ago, Saint Scott said:

Selling the naming rights to the ground would potentially cover the full cost at £30-40m

£30-40m?

You can barely get a patio for that these days. 

[Tommy Mulgrew]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

Top 5 recorded attendances at The Dell (ranked)

Rank	Match (competition)	Date	Attendance
1	Southampton v Manchester United (Division 1)	8 Oct 1969	31,044
2	Southampton v West Bromwich Albion (Division 2)	23 Apr 1949	30,586
3	Southampton v Sunderland (FA Cup)	16 Jan 1937	30,380
4	Southampton v Tottenham Hotspur (Division 2)	8 Oct 1949	30,240
5	Southampton v Swindon Town (FA Cup 5th rd)	7 Feb 1948	29,134

 

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I attended 4/5 of these games. The 48/49 season was my first taste of the Saints as a very young lad

Pedant alert -

If 1948/49 was your first season surely you attended only three of those games: the Swindon cup game was in the previous season.
 

 

[Oh no Mick Mills]

On 10/09/2025 at 13:42, VectisSaint said:

I remember getting around 28-30k at The Dell regularly. The 15k capacity only came about because of the requirement for all seater stadia. We used to attract as many supporters as we do now.

The 1984 season when we finished 2nd to Liverpool our average home crowd was about 18,000. 

Think this was when the Dell could accommodate 24,000. 

[Saint Scott]

2 hours ago, egg said:

£30-40m?

You can barely get a patio for that these days. 

I never claimed it did, @bpsaint suggested £30-40m

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

I never claimed it did, @bpsaint suggested £30-40m

My reply was tongue in cheek, but you said selling the naming rights 'would potentially cover the full cost at £30-40m'. I have no idea what the cost would be, but it's irrelevant, as it's not happening. 

[Kenilworthy59]

21 minutes ago, Oh no Mick Mills said:

The 1984 season when we finished 2nd to Liverpool our average home crowd was about 18,000. 

Think this was when the Dell could accommodate 24,000. 

Generally, throughout the 1980s the capacity (according to Simon Inglis) was just over 25,000. Although the 80s was a time when football crowds were reaching all-time lows. I was at Villa Park in February 1986 when the crowd was 8,456 and at Chelsea on Easter Monday 1987when it was 11,512. I was also at the Dell in October 1969 when the official record of 31,044 was set against Manchester and that was unpleasant and dangerous. There were probably many more for Channon's testimonial.

[Sunglasses Ron]

I remember the Southampton Ipswich match in 1993.

Hard to believe only 9,028 souls turned up for it.

[Teamsaint1]

6 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

Top 5 recorded attendances at The Dell (ranked)

Rank	Match (competition)	Date	Attendance
1	Southampton v Manchester United (Division 1)	8 Oct 1969	31,044
2	Southampton v West Bromwich Albion (Division 2)	23 Apr 1949	30,586
3	Southampton v Sunderland (FA Cup)	16 Jan 1937	30,380
4	Southampton v Tottenham Hotspur (Division 2)	8 Oct 1949	30,240
5	Southampton v Swindon Town (FA Cup 5th rd)	7 Feb 1948	29,134

The game v United in 1974 had 30789 , so not sure why that isn’t on the list.
I was there . It was very unpleasantly overcrowded. 

[Teamsaint1]

32 minutes ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I remember the Southampton Ipswich match in 1993.

Hard to believe only 9,028 souls turned up for it.

Awful weather didn’t help.nobody anywhere near me on the Milton .  I think it had rained all afternoon. Looking at the team sheet, we seem to have started with Matty as a lone striker, until Moody replaced Terry Hurlock at HT !!!! 

Those were the days……..

[Saint Fan CaM]

I would imagine that should we get back to the EPL and then push on to establish ourselves as a permanent fixture, to climb any further and compete without sacrificing squad quality in the shadow of FFP, revenue from increased ticket sales will be vital. Given all of that is unlikely with SR at the helm, the whole premise is somewhat mute.

[Sunglasses Ron]

30 minutes ago, Teamsaint1 said:

Awful weather didn’t help.nobody anywhere near me on the Milton .  I think it had rained all afternoon. Looking at the team sheet, we seem to have started with Matty as a lone striker, until Moody replaced Terry Hurlock at HT !!!! 

Those were the days……..

They were indeed, the height of the ‘Branfoot Out’ movement.

Dreadful weather, dreadful game, dreadful result!

[spyinthesky]

4 hours ago, Kenilworthy59 said:

Generally, throughout the 1980s the capacity (according to Simon Inglis) was just over 25,000. Although the 80s was a time when football crowds were reaching all-time lows. I was at Villa Park in February 1986 when the crowd was 8,456 and at Chelsea on Easter Monday 1987when it was 11,512. I was also at the Dell in October 1969 when the official record of 31,044 was set against Manchester and that was unpleasant and dangerous. There were probably many more for Channon's testimonial.

There was a game at Highbury, against Leeds I think, during quite a cold spell, when only just over 3,000 turned up.

[Nordic Saint]

In the quarter of a century since the stadium was built, there has been a 20+% increase in the population of the local area. This is slightly above the national average for England, where there has been an overall population increase of 16.5%, which is why so many clubs are increasing their stadium capacities. You have to keep up with the times. Of course, it's likely that the population will continue to grow. So, it would make sense to plan ahead with enough capacity for the years ahead. 

Southampton Urban Area

• Population in 2000: 792,000

• Population in 2025: 967,000

Percentage Increase:

22.08%

 

Projection for 2030    1,002,000

So, by 2030, there will be approx. 210,000 more people in the Southampton Urban Area than when the stadium was built.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Nordic Saint

[The Kraken]

I think we’re in a financial era where it makes more sense than ever to spend money on the stadium. If we get back to the top league of course.
Back when we built St Mary’s it cost £32M and we took out a long term mortgage to pay for it. 
Nowadays that’s the cost of one fair to middling premier league player.  And the annual TV revenues on offer eclipse that significantly. 
The game is more awash with huge sums of money than ever before. As ever most will go to the players and agents, but the cost of expansion / new stadium as a ration of annual revenue is incomparable to just 10 or 15 years ago.  Some of the arguments for not expanding don’t hold like they did back then. Plus I think evidence shows that ticket demand has slowly risen year by year for a while now. Will be interesting to see our average home attendances this season.