New Manager Debate

[DT]

One thing in TE's favour is that the style of play seemed more positive and direct on Saturday, using the wings and the excellent Scienza. Also loved how uninvolved Downes was (am convinced he's a bad egg) but watching Downs not run around much was again worrying. Really think we should try and offload already in Jan, at least on loan somewhere. Pathetic energy.

If they play in that manner tomorrow night that is another plus, regardless of the result. It shows that we have someone who knows about tactics (or at least in comparison to the computer game player we had before).

One thought struck me though: that the players are finally playing for him because they really don't want a disciplinarian or old school tactician coming in.

[Toadhall Saint]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

You are correct. Say we get smashed tomorrow then you'll have a load of people doubting again. These next two games should tell us a lot and I would look at the five games in total after Saturday and make a decision then.

So how many wins/draws/losses would it be to make him the manager?

[the saint in winchester]

On 23/11/2025 at 09:18, ally_uk said:

 

How good is Scienza! Love how direct he is. 

It's great to have the feel good factor back at Saints, I like the calm and assured demeanor of Tonda. He has this quiet confidence about him. 

 

 

 

That's what I'm confused about. He comes across as scared as a rabbit in the headlights in his interviews. He has to pause and consider his responses before saying anything. Of course, it could be as simple as having to translate in his head before answering, considering the effect of the question he is about to answer.

I'm intrigued to know what he is doing (so well) to get these performances. Is it all his own work? Is Lallana involved? I'm  still unsure whether these performances and results will continue. Time will tell. I would want to know the players want him to get the gig. Captain Jack and Arma - please speak for the players. 

Edited 8 hours ago by the saint in winchester

[hypochondriac]

29 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So how many wins/draws/losses would it be to make him the manager?

Personally it's more about the performance combined with the results. If we put in decent performances and are a bit unlucky over the next two then I could see him getting the job regardless. 

[Dman]

34 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Personally it's more about the performance combined with the results. If we put in decent performances and are a bit unlucky over the next two then I could see him getting the job regardless. 

That's it for me as well.

QPR was a pretty poor performance (only had 1 day with the team so let him off), Sheff Weds was a bit better, but still pretty poor (again, next to no time with them). Charlton was obviously brilliant. He still has a bit to do for me, Leicester is his first real challenge. 

[Toadhall Saint]

44 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Personally it's more about the performance combined with the results. If we put in decent performances and are a bit unlucky over the next two then I could see him getting the job regardless. 

 

7 minutes ago, Dman said:

That's it for me as well.

QPR was a pretty poor performance (only had 1 day with the team so let him off), Sheff Weds was a bit better, but still pretty poor (again, next to no time with them). Charlton was obviously brilliant. He still has a bit to do for me, Leicester is his first real challenge. 

So two spirited losses? Or 2 battling draws? Would that be enough? For me 4 points.

[Dman]

Just now, Toadhall Saint said:

 

So two spirited losses? Or 2 battling draws? Would that be enough? For me 4 points.

I think if we don't come out of these 2 games with a minimum of 3 maybe 4 points would suggest that we've not played very well. 

[Dusic]

9 minutes ago, Dman said:

That's it for me as well.

QPR was a pretty poor performance (only had 1 day with the team so let him off), Sheff Weds was a bit better, but still pretty poor (again, next to no time with them). Charlton was obviously brilliant. He still has a bit to do for me, Leicester is his first real challenge. 

Find this a bit odd.

QPR was a backs to the wall performance from a team totally devoid of confidence. We scored a couple of good goals then an individual error changed the pattern of the game. The players had been hugely criticised for not showing enough fight, passion, heart, pride etc. In the last 20mins they were technically poor but put bodies on the line and ground out a win that a few days earlier would have been a loss. That was massive IMO for what followed and he should take credit because if the players didnt respect him I don't think that uptick in commitment would have happened. It was a brilliant win in a game where the only thing that mattered was changing the momentum with a good result.

Sheff Weds was our first comfortable win in 18 months. We started really well in possession and scored goals from a couple of fluid moves with players lile Azaz and Fellows showing up for pretty much the first time. No coincidence because he tweaked their positioning to get the best out of them. It was on track to be 3 or 4 nil at HT and then we conceded and were rocked for a bit, but held firm. We then scored another very well constructed goal before seeing the gane out with a minimum of fuss, very rare recently! Certainly not "pretty poor" in the context of the other league games this season.

It was easy to see the improvements in those games, and Charlton was a level up from Sheff Wed with more training time. But there were clear signs from an attacking point of view vs SW that we were heading in the right direction.

Easy to say Leciester his first real challenge but QPR was a huge challenge at the time and many on here were hyping up Charlton as being a really tough away game.

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

 

So two spirited losses? Or 2 battling draws? Would that be enough? For me 4 points.

I genuinely think it depends on the results. If Leicester beat us 1-0 because they injure three of our players and deceive the ref to get two of our players sent off then I'm hardly going to be criticising the manager. We shouldn't be making long term decisions based on one or two games, we need to look at after these five which I think is a reasonable amount of time to make an assessment. We are only three games in. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Find this a bit odd.

QPR was a backs to the wall performance from a team totally devoid of confidence. We scored a couple of good goals then an individual error changed the pattern of the game. The players had been hugely criticised for not showing enough fight, passion, heart, pride etc. In the last 20mins they were technically poor but put bodies on the line and ground out a win that a few days earlier would have been a loss. That was massive IMO for what followed and he should take credit because if the players didnt respect him I don't think that uptick in commitment would have happened. It was a brilliant win in a game where the only thing that mattered was changing the momentum with a good result.

Sheff Weds was our first comfortable win in 18 months. We started really well in possession and scored goals from a couple of fluid moves with players lile Azaz and Fellows showing up for pretty much the first time. No coincidence because he tweaked their positioning to get the best out of them. It was on track to be 3 or 4 nil at HT and then we conceded and were rocked for a bit, but held firm. We then scored another very well constructed goal before seeing the gane out with a minimum of fuss, very rare recently! Certainly not "pretty poor" in the context of the other league games this season.

It was easy to see the improvements in those games, and Charlton was a level up from Sheff Wed with more training time. But there were clear signs from an attacking point of view vs SW that we were heading in the right direction.

Easy to say Leciester his first real challenge but QPR was a huge challenge at the time and many on here were hyping up Charlton as being a really tough away game.

Charlton was impressive but it's also true to say that Charlton played in a way that we won't be encountering very often in this league. If we can get big wins against teams with a low block who will look to frustrate us all game then I think we are on the right track. Obviously don't expect us to win every game. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Charlton was impressive but it's also true to say that Charlton played in a way that we won't be encountering very often in this league. If we can get big wins against teams with a low block who will look to frustrate us all game then I think we are on the right track. Obviously don't expect us to win every game. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

My view is if we don’t get at least four points from the next two games, it’s indicative of players not following instructions or just falling to bits…or perhaps the opposing team being better than us (but I doubt that). I genuinely think Eckhert has what it takes to coach/orchestrate wins.

[West end Saints]

6 hours ago, Zorba said:

Let’s not do the Rasmus “If it ain’t broke, fuck it up”. Tonda has done a great job over 3 games but we’ve played pretty average opposition which we should expect to beat with our very capable Championship squad. SR can keep looking for a replacement, but if Tonda goes unbeaten for say the next 10 games.. he gets rewarded with the full time gig.. but we should not be in any rush to give him everything right  now.

Are you serious that he has to get to 13 games unbeaten to get the job??!!

If he gets close to that and is still being asked to stay as an interim, then I think he should tell us where to go and find a club that appreciates him!

Are you confident any new manager would have taken us on, after 5 games without a win, three straight defeats, and turned that into a 13 game unbeaten run starting with three wins????

For example, that is better than Carrick has ever achieved, let alone after taking on this mess!

Unless there is someone key in the background, two more performances like Saturday would convince me he is worth a go.

Edited 7 hours ago by West end Saints

[Toadhall Saint]

31 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I genuinely think it depends on the results. If Leicester beat us 1-0 because they injure three of our players and deceive the ref to get two of our players sent off then I'm hardly going to be criticising the manager. We shouldn't be making long term decisions based on one or two games, we need to look at after these five which I think is a reasonable amount of time to make an assessment. We are only three games in. 

Like I say 4 points (to go with the 9) has got to have him more than “in the running”. I’m quite interested to see how Leicester look to play - attack or hold deep. If they look to play I think it’ll play into our hands if the hold deep then it’ll be a long night - interesting all the same. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

That's what I'm confused about. He comes across as scared as a rabbit in the headlights in his interviews. He has to pause and consider his responses before saying anything. Of course, it could be as simple as having to translate in his head before answering, considering the effect of the question he is about to answer.

I'm intrigued to know what he is doing (so well) to get these performances. Is it all his own work? Is Lallana involved? I'm  still unsure whether these performances and results will continue. Time will tell. I would want to know the players want him to get the gig. Captain Jack and Arma - please speak for the players. 

Yeah I did think that at first but he is very precise in his replies and I reckon the pause is there to give him time to consider his response. He tends to give answers where he doesn't always agree with Blackmore and then gives a clear explanation. To me he has an inward confidence that may bely his sometimes startled look and certainly has his own mind and believes in himself. 

[hypochondriac]

Tonda comes across as a bit boring and on the face of it doesn't seem very inspiring. No one will give the smallest shit about any of that if he keeps being successful. Managers can achieve success in different ways. 

[Miltonaggro]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Tonda comes across as a bit boring and on the face of it doesn't seem very inspiring. No one will give the smallest shit about any of that if he keeps being successful. Managers can achieve success in different ways. 

Yes. I prefer his understated and reserved delivery to Still's bingo eyes and Martin's bullshit. 

[hypochondriac]

12 minutes ago, Miltonaggro said:

Yes. I prefer his understated and reserved delivery to Still's bingo eyes and Martin's bullshit. 

To be honest I think I prefer his approach because we are doing well. If we start doing shit again I can see it starting to grate. Last two press conferences have been a snore fest but as I said it really doesn't matter if he is a success.

Edited 5 hours ago by hypochondriac

[Toadhall Saint]

49 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Tonda comes across as a bit boring and on the face of it doesn't seem very inspiring. No one will give the smallest shit about any of that if he keeps being successful. Managers can achieve success in different ways. 

I like his measured approach tbh.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I like his measured approach tbh.

My point is you wouldn't be saying that if he'd lost the three games.

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

My point is you wouldn't be saying that if he'd lost the three games.

He's only two defeats away from being described as a "corporate yes-man".

 

[goodymatt]

5 hours ago, saintant said:

Last time I looked we were 4 points off the play offs and 9 points above the relegation zone 🙂

Yeah that’s my point, after the 3 wins in a row we are already looking like a playoff push is achievable, which in turn might make us more interesting to external candidates 🙂

Edited 3 hours ago by goodymatt

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

He's only two defeats away from being described as a "corporate yes-man".

 

"going going Gonda"

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Are you serious that he has to get to 13 games unbeaten to get the job??!!

If he gets close to that and is still being asked to stay as an interim, then I think he should tell us where to go and find a club that appreciates him!

Are you confident any new manager would have taken us on, after 5 games without a win, three straight defeats, and turned that into a 13 game unbeaten run starting with three wins????

For example, that is better than Carrick has ever achieved, let alone after taking on this mess!

Unless there is someone key in the background, two more performances like Saturday would convince me he is worth a go.

We went 23 games unbeaten at this level in spite of Russell Martin 

[Zorba]

4 hours ago, West end Saints said:

Are you serious that he has to get to 13 games unbeaten to get the job??!!

I’m not saying he has to win them all 😁 I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that he has a very good run over the next ten games before offering him the job. I wouldn’t want him in charge if he doesn’t achieve that.

Edited 2 hours ago by Zorba
Already been said

[Willo of Whiteley]

He could beat Leicester and Millwall and then lose the next four after that.

That’s when attentions turn again to Sport Republic. They can’t get this one wrong.

[Lord Duckhunter]

11 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

am not the only one comparing the performance to Koeman days.I cannot recall a better performance.

There were plenty under Puel & Ralph,against far better sides than Charlton. There were one or two under Hughes as well, we had just as good performances under Lego in this league last time out. Even Nathan jones produced one in the cup which was just as good. I guess denying City the only trophy they didn’t win that season, doesn’t match up with beating a team fresh out of league 1.
 

People need to calm down, far better players than charltion, QPR &  Sheffield Weds beat those 3 sides, playing very well in one of those games, that’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

26 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

He could beat Leicester and Millwall and then lose the next four after that.

That’s when attentions turn again to Sport Republic. They can’t get this one wrong.

What makes it so hard is sometimes things go well for a caretaker but as soon as they become permanent manager the dynamic changes.

[E_H_Saints]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

He's only two defeats away from being described as a "corporate yes-man".

 

Harsh, he could have left the team as it was and said he was waiting for the club to bring someone in.  Instead, he has made changes and played players we would normally be too nervous to play.  I don't think he could be categorised as a yes man.  

I do agree it's too early to say he deserves it as managers make their statement when they need to bounce back but we shall see.

[E_H_Saints]

16 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

What makes it so hard is sometimes things go well for a caretaker but as soon as they become permanent manager the dynamic changes.

Or the flip side, you replace him and the manger has  4 losses on the bounce then he could be back in charge before the end of the season.  We need a crystal ball.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 minutes ago, E_H_Saints said:

Or the flip side, you replace him and the manger has  4 losses on the bounce then he could be back in charge before the end of the season.  We need a crystal ball.

We need an Alan Ball. 🙂

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

He could beat Leicester and Millwall and then lose the next four after that.

That’s when attentions turn again to Sport Republic. They can’t get this one wrong.

 

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

What makes it so hard is sometimes things go well for a caretaker but as soon as they become permanent manager the dynamic changes.

 

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

There were plenty under Puel & Ralph,against far better sides than Charlton. There were one or two under Hughes as well, we had just as good performances under Lego in this league last time out. Even Nathan jones produced one in the cup which was just as good. I guess denying City the only trophy they didn’t win that season, doesn’t match up with beating a team fresh out of league 1.
 

People need to calm down, far better players than charltion, QPR &  Sheffield Weds beat those 3 sides, playing very well in one of those games, that’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. 

 

1 hour ago, E_H_Saints said:

Or the flip side, you replace him and the manger has  4 losses on the bounce then he could be back in charge before the end of the season.  We need a crystal ball.

Have we considered taking the perfectly sensible approach of not putting the manager, whoever he is, on a pedestal and making him the sole reason as to whether we win or lose? Maybe just accepting that managers will win and lose some games and he’s not completely brilliant or completely shit either way?  As long as he’s respected by the players and has disdain for Adam Blackmore then he’s probably okay and the focus therefore should be on the group of players instead?