Tonda Eckert

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

I’d back him. He’s turned us around completely , and the “cheating” has made zero difference in that.  

Did he? We were shit under him initially I thought, then suddenly turned it around. Can we be sure that didn't have anything to do with rule breaking now?

[Osvaldorama]

Just now, Saint_clark said:

Did he? We were shit under him initially I thought, then suddenly turned it around. Can we be sure that didn't have anything to do with rule breaking now?

Very confident imo. 
 

if all our goals came from set pieces, fine. But it’s not been that. We’ve been fantastic and battered teams. 
 

 

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Osvaldorama said:

Very confident imo. 
 

if all our goals came from set pieces, fine. But it’s not been that. We’ve been fantastic and battered teams. 
 

 

We have scored more goals from set pieces than any other side in the championship haven't we?

[Middlewordie]

Surely Tonda is off to Man City? Systematic rule breaking in the big time!

[revolution saint]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Did he? We were shit under him initially I thought, then suddenly turned it around. Can we be sure that didn't have anything to do with rule breaking now?

If winning six out of the first seven is shit then I'd quite like another shit manager.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, revolution saint said:

If winning six out of the first seven is shit then I'd quite like another shit manager.

Oh yeah he came in just before an easy run in, I remember now.

[S-Clarke]

9 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Did he? We were shit under him initially I thought, then suddenly turned it around. Can we be sure that didn't have anything to do with rule breaking now?

His start was strong. We had a bad spell during December > January, but picked up after that.

[Pamplemousse]

We might not have a choice of keeping him if the FA take action 

[Willo of Whiteley]

He obviously had something about him, but this is just reckless stupidity or naivety.

Either way I bet those players opinions have changed.

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

His start was strong. We had a bad spell during December > January, but picked up after that.

Results wise, yes. But did you watch those games? Apart from Charlton, we were shocking and lucky to win any of them really.

[S-Clarke]

46 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Results wise, yes. But did you watch those games? Apart from Charlton, we were shocking and lucky to win any of them really.

 Oh totally, not saying it from a performance level. I was pretty vocal over the QPR game in particular, we were a mess. I was expecting and hoping we'd use the international break to put in a 'proper' manager, but it never materialised, we allowed him to continue, maybe with some help - no comment -  and Spors got his wish to make him manager. It feels more orchestrated the more you look back.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

His start was strong. We had a bad spell during December > January, but picked up after that.

Coinciding with a flu outbreak amongst our interns? 🙂 

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Osvaldorama said:

I’d back him. He’s turned us around completely , and the “cheating” has made zero difference in that.  

It's academic, the FA will ban him. We're going to be destroyed over this.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

why are our fans saying this, we cannot keep him, he has admitted to cheating. He will likely be banned anyway.

Hasn't he admitted to not realising that he was cheating...? #subtledifference 

[OzzySaint]

Like many fanatic Saints fans around the world I’m in shock – not so much about the punishment – I was expecting it which is why I cashed out my bet last week for Saints promotion – but about the stupidity of the action.

I am angry and deeply deeply disappointed that this was allowed to occur – where is the governance in this club. The board has a duty to ensure that the team does not break the law or breach the rules. You can shoot the manager, shoot the director of strategy and shoot any other individual but it matters not, it is the board that is culpable. They set the culture and moral behavior of the club.

The board would have completed a risk assessment at the start of the season on best / worst case scenarios, when we got into the playoffs they should have revisited this and performed a risk analysis against all possibilities including breaching regulations. Its not about being wise after the event but any company that has a deal on the table for $millions is going to analyse what could go wrong and mitigate it. Instruction/ reminders  should have been given about what was allowable and what wasn’t including “No attending training sessions prior to 72 hours before game”. ! I feel for Tonda and the team – if he made a judgement error I am sure that he would not have foreseen the likely repercussions.

Forget the punishment – it was always going to be expulsion – what else could they do? Give a mickey mouse fine that we would have paid the first week in the EPL  or give future points deductions that mean nothing??  - we got a punishment that was designed to stop this happening in the future and we deserve it.

I love the Saints and have been waking up early in the morning most weeks to watch them from Melbourne for years – my house is even called The Dell. I feel for all other fans (and sponsors) who like me were looking forward to being in the premiership next year and regaining respect for our performances given last seasons debacle. I feel for all the players who will quite rightly feel angry and aggrieved for being let down off the pitch.

Unlike many of the posts I am not calling for Tonda’s head – I believe he did what he was tasked to do, get Saints into a promotion position. The fact that no one was overseeing the compliance with the leagues regulations is not his issue – it is the boards and they have to answer for this.

I hope im wrong but I see us losing many players, being a pariah club new players wont want to come to and as importantly tarnishing our academy development. Be careful not to throw Tonda out with the bathwater as we will need him next season – he’s a very good manager and we should all remember how hard these are to come by. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Hasn't he admitted to not realising that he was cheating...? #subtledifference 

It's a bit of a weak defence if I'm honest, unless he was asleep when Bielsa did it. I don't buy that one, and even if it is genuine then it's embarrassing and shows up how weak the setup has been around him.

[sockeye]

We might not have a choice if the FA suspend him.

[S-Clarke]

Tonda, if found to be implicated - which looks fairly damming - will almost certainly be sacked by the club in breach of contract and it will follow up with an FA ban for a long period of time.

We won't have a choice.

[OzzySaint]

True and that will probably be the case - you can't do the "i was only following orders defense" but who was there to oversee the decision and was it actually his decision?

 

Edited 14 hours ago by OzzySaint
mis type

[Saint86]

Sadly, I think those saying he will be banned are correct.

[Jack]

A ban for Tonda aside, are players going to trust and respect him? Or even want to play for him? Are new players going to want to sign for him? Is he going to be any good now that he can’t cheat? I think the club needs to move those involved on asap and start to rebuild our reputation 

[Saint Fan CaM]

If it’s clear that Tonda made no direct instruction to sanction the spying then he should stay - I.e. I could imagine that the analyst team operate independently as a service to the coaching staff and report to Spors. Otherwise, yes, he should go.

[Saint Paul C]

TBH, It's desperately poor internal governance that's allowed Tonda and his coaches to carry on any suspect "spying" activities. 

 The club exec's should have said - "sorry team, not allowed. Needs to stop immediately.  "

That's a failure of corporate governance, and those on the exec team, COO, CEO etc.. need to wear the responsibility - and lose their jobs as a consequence. 

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

If it’s clear that Tonda made no direct instruction to sanction the spying then he should stay - I.e. I could imagine that the analyst team operate independently as a service to the coaching staff and report to Spors. Otherwise, yes, he should go.

If the telegraph article is accurate, and we've got no reason to suspect it isn't at this point, then this is almost entirely on Tonda. 

[bangkoksaint]

Was Spors the one that instigated spying and knew that if TE was appointed then he’d be happy taking that course of action to gain a sporting advantage? If so then it’s little wonder he was so keen to get him appointed 

[St. Ciervo]

Build a bonfire... All of them must go. 

[Saint_clark]

13 minutes ago, St. Ciervo said:

Build a bonfire... All of them must go. 

Yep. Anyone who knew is complicit. Get rid, clear the club out of the lot, start again.

[Farmer Saint]

Playing Devil's advocate here, if Tonda didn't know it was a rule and genuinely thought it was fine, then a ban seems massively harsh. The club should have told him it was a banned practice in the Championship.

I've got a horrible feeling here that this is more a mistake than anything malicious, hence why we've admitted to it so quickly and cooperated.

Edited 9 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Pamplemousse]

He has to be sacked, we need a completely fresh start to rebuild our reputation, and we would never get that if he remains in charge. 

[St. Ciervo]

6 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Playing Devil's advocate here, if Tonda didn't know it was a rule and genuinely thought it was fine, then a ban seems massively harsh. The club should have told him it was a banned practice in the Championship.

I've got a horrible feeling here that this is more a mistake than anything malicious, hence why we've admitted to it so quickly and cooperated.

You sweet, innocent, new-born, baby fawn. 

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, St. Ciervo said:

You sweet, innocent, new-born, baby fawn. 

But why would he think it's against the rules?

[St. Ciervo]

Because he is a professional. This is his job. He, and others, should know the rules for their own position. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, St. Ciervo said:

Because he is a professional. This is his job. He, and others, should know the rules for their own position. 

Which is what I said in my post - the club should have told him. This is his first management role.

Why would he necessarily know that in one league in the whole world this is a rule?

Edited 9 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[CB Fry]

He's going to be banned from football. It's not a choice we're going to make, it's happening anyway.

He 100% will never manage us again.

[St. Ciervo]

I wasn't honestly digging at you. Im just stunned with every new development. My apologies.

But the kid was trying to be coy behind the tree. The club is passing off jokes and images... None of that would be happening if the assumption was that this was okay. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, St. Ciervo said:

I wasn't honestly digging at you. Im just stunned with every new development. My apologies.

But the kid was trying to be coy behind the tree. The club is passing off jokes and images... None of that would be happening if the assumption was that this was okay. 

I disagree.

[Farmer Saint]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

We have scored more goals from set pieces than any other side in the championship haven't we?

Why's that matter, they're our set pieces, not the other teams?

[Farmer Saint]

4 hours ago, Saint Paul C said:

TBH, It's desperately poor internal governance that's allowed Tonda and his coaches to carry on any suspect "spying" activities. 

 The club exec's should have said - "sorry team, not allowed. Needs to stop immediately.  "

That's a failure of corporate governance, and those on the exec team, COO, CEO etc.. need to wear the responsibility - and lose their jobs as a consequence. 

This - I think the issue is at Parsons level (and probably Spors) rather than at a first year Manager who has engaged in this at previous clubs due to it not being against the rules.

Edited 9 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Teamsaint1]

Football governance is full of rules that potentially bring big punishments for small errors. 
It is inexcusable , especially at this level, to have sanctioned this or not checked the legality.

Tonda and others will pay the price, as will the fans. 

[AlexLaw76]

18 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

But why would he think it's against the rules?

He was an assistant manager at another EFL club, as well as coaching here

not knowing the rules is no excuse

[Farmer Saint]

4 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

It's a bit of a weak defence if I'm honest, unless he was asleep when Bielsa did it. I don't buy that one, and even if it is genuine then it's embarrassing and shows up how weak the setup has been around him.

He was 25 and an assistant coach at U17 at Bayern Munich when Bielsa did it.

Why would he follow that story?

[benjii]

Absolutely not, if he has been involved in this (which it seems he has).

Tonda needs to be sacked (along with any other coaches involved), Spors needs to be sacked - unless his role had no first team oversight duty - and Parsons needs to be sacked. Ideally Dragan and his band of idiots would also piss off, but there's no one who can sack them.

 

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

He was an assistant manager at another EFL club, as well as coaching here

not knowing the rules is no excuse

So, was he assistant manager in the year it took place? Again, why would he know.

For instance, do you know it is illegal to gamble in a British library?

Edited 9 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[Saint_clark]

17 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Why's that matter, they're our set pieces, not the other teams?

We might have been benefitting from knowing how teams were lining up to defend set pieces. 

[The Wyvern]

A ban obviously takes it out of our hands, but why was no-one calling for Tonda to be sacked this time last week?  By that point it was clear we’d done something wrong and he’d have been involved in it, but we thought we were still going to Wembley so no-one cared. 

[Farmer Saint]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

We might have been benefitting from knowing how teams were lining up to defend set pieces. 

But they tend to react to the attacking team.

[CB Fry]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

So, was he assistant manager in the year it took place? Again, why would he know.

For instance, do you know it is illegal to gamble in a British library?

Jesus wept. 

The man is a fully grown adult, and a highly paid top level football professional. Just fuck off with the "wah wah nobody told me it was wrong" bullshit.

Edited 9 hours ago by CB Fry

[Eric The Red]

6 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Results wise, yes. But did you watch those games? Apart from Charlton, we were shocking and lucky to win any of them really.

Well I watched all of those games and we were not 'shocking' though they did follow a similar pattern. Us dominant first half, often several goals up then struggling to see out the games as comfortably as we should, possibly caused by a lack of fitness 

 Only ones that varied significantly were the first (QPR) where we were just desperately anxious and Millwall who were probably just better than the other teams we played.

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Jesus wept. 

The man is a fully grown adult, and a highly paid top level football professional. Just fuck off with the "wah wah nobody told me it was wrong" bullshit.

Alright mate, no need to lose your temper at 6am.

Calm yourself or you'll ruin your day.

Edited 9 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Alright mate, no need to lose your temper at 6am.

Calm yourself or you'll ruin your day.

Sorry no one ever one told me is was wrong to rant on a football forum