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Saints Charged With Spying on Mboro Training

St Chalet

By St Chalet
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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted

Borson further adds….

 

there is a gap in the rules.

if it happened 73 hours before, is it the OK?

Saints are trying to play down the severity

sporting Sanctions likely be 6 points, as that seems to be the go to

if Boro are awarded 3-0 for the home game, Southampton will counter and state they would have approached the game last night differently

This could be expedited like the WBA situation, but it will likely go into next week at the earliest. Southampton, Boro and/or the EFL can appeal

Boro’s issue is that if the panel declare a sporting advantage was obtained by Saints, It would be disputed and Boro would have to show where this advantage was gained

The case here, this incident took place for no other reason but gain a sporting advantage 

no similar rule in the premier league, but would come under the “bad faith” rule, but the prem rarely use it and clubs make deals all the time out of the spotlight

 


Jordan adds….

Gibbo will outwardly want Saints booted out but that is not likely to happen, so Gibbo will push for something to advantage Boro (financially)

Believes Gibbo would sack the manager if their manager was responsible for the same thing

 

 

benjii

benjii

Posted
Posted

The play off final tickets are going on sale tomorrow, right?

Absolutely fuck all chance we get disqualified and Boro reinstated. 

We just need to keep quiet and get on with things.

Offer Boro Damion Downs and a free fence.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 7
Dman

Dman

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Borson further adds….

 

there is a gap in the rules.

if it happened 73 hours before, is it the OK?

Saints are trying to play down the severity

sporting Sanctions likely be 6 points, as that seems to be the go to

if Boro are awarded 3-0 for the home game, Southampton will counter and state they would have approached the game last night differently

This could be expedited like the WBA situation, but it will likely go into next week at the earliest. Southampton, Boro and/or the EFL can appeal

Boro’s issue is that if the panel declare a sporting advantage was obtained by Saints, It would be disputed and Boro would have to show where this advantage was gained

The case here, this incident took place for no other reason but gain a sporting advantage 

no similar rule in the premier league, but would come under the “bad faith” rule, but the prem rarely use it and clubs make deals all the time out of the spotlight

 


Jordan adds….

Gibbo will outwardly want Saints booted out but that is not likely to happen, so Gibbo will push for something to advantage Boro (financially)

Believes Gibbo would sack the manager if their manager was responsible for the same thing

 

 

Too late for that. He had his chance and he went blabbering to the press, which would make us paying it off unfeasible at this stage. 

If he'd rang up saints saying I've caught you doing this - I want x for this to not go to the EFL, we might have played ball. 

  • Like 2
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Simon Jordan suggesting “Gibbo” may call Saints and request a financial deal for this to go away.

Which means “Gibbo” has fed that to him?

Fair enough. Not sure how that would work though because it's not Middlesbrough who have brought the charges.

  • Like 1
leeham_69

leeham_69

Posted
Posted

any chance they could just make us replay the boro fixture? For all the outrage, I personally can't see it being anything other than financial.

  • Makes the EFL look like an absolute joke if they allow 2 games to be played when they are seriously entertaining kicking one out.
  • Also undermines the whole credibility of the competition if a side who finished 5th then drew at home and lost away go through.
  • Millwall could argue it should be them based on merit across the season as they finished above both us and boro.
  • A 6 point deduction for sending someone to look at a training session would be the same punishment as received Leicester for cheating over a period of 3 years.
  • If they did apply a sporting sanction, you'd think it would be worth it for Saints to throw many millions of pounds in legal quagmire towards the EFL a la Man City, and I doubt the EFL would really want that as they'll know they've made a decision without precedent.

I felt the dot points gave me a bit of clout there, agree?

AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Fair enough. Not sure how that would work though because it's not Middlesbrough who have brought the charges.

Boro can contest any outcomes (or not)

Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, LegalEagle said:

Sorry for getting all legal here and Lee on Solent touched on this above. If it turns out that the allegations are either not upheld or that they are found to be relatively minor in their nature (i.e. the extent of the “spying”) then some of these journalists and pundits need to watch their backs. Some of the comments that have been made are defamatory and/or libelous. The journalists and pundits whom I refer to have made these statements without being in full possession of the facts, and indeed without possession of any of the facts and cannot try and rely upon ‘honest belief’. 
 

if it turns out as I stated above in my second sentence, the club should take these people through the courts if they won’t make a full public apology. I’m surprised at certain main stream media and radio printing and publishing some of these statements.

Let’s see.

 

Does anyone know which lawyers the club have called in to represent us in this?

Because I was thinking the same thing. In a private case, trying to use the media or third parties to influence the right to a fair trial while it is ongoing is classed as contempt and can make a case collapse. 

I'd be amazed if our lawyers aren't gathering every single comment and article which has been issued by the staff of Middlesbrough FC, their affiliates in the press, and the wider media in order to present them as evidence that they are trying to influence the outcome of the panel. It's not like they're doing it in secret. 

I would love it - love it - if we came out fighting and issued a counter-suit along those lines and came at them for defamation and trying to pervert the course of justice. 

  • Like 4
Oldandtired

Oldandtired

Posted
Posted (edited)

Some ifs..if we do get promoted, if all these shenanigans do get proven then it gives me a glimmer of hope that we might survive in the prem.

It's a dirty place, full of rule bending, dark arts mastering, win at all costs cheats masquerading as managers and players.

We might just have learnt a few lessons last time round...of course the biggy, if proven, is don't get caught.

Edited by Oldandtired
RedArmy

RedArmy

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Turkish said:

According to SSN this was the crime scene. The spy was hiding behind this tree then when seen ran into the bogs to get changed. The outrage, the tears, the over the top reporting with everyone having an opinion. Its actually comical 

 

IMG_0798.jpeg

Ground zero. 

sadoldgit

sadoldgit

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, bender said:

Anyone actually excited about going to Wembley again.  I don't feel I can unless this is sorted

It is a sideshow. If you let it spoil your enjoyment of the occasion you have fallen into the trap. They want everyone to believe that it is a big deal. It really isn’t.

  • Like 3
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

Evidence with Boro that we spied on two other clubs apparently. 

This whole situation is a proper drag. Feel for the players.

Why is evidence with Boro and not the EFL?

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Posted
Posted

Cundy made the point that taking your shirt off after scoring a goal is breaking the rules but it's not cheating. As mentioned before, watching a team train from a public place is breaking the rules but not cheating.

There needs to be a reality check. What did we gain from all this? Judging by the first half at the Riverside, the answer is nothing. Media hype is making this sound more than it is.

Yes it's an embarrassment. My guess is we'll be fined. £200k is the precedent, so reckon it'll be more like £1m this time. Any more than that and counter sue.

  • Like 5
Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

That's a joke right? They didn't really send a reporter there to speak live from the "scene of the crime"?

CSI Middlesbrough starring Steve Gibbo Gibson as 'The Don' and Kim Hellberg as 'Cryin' Lil' Bitch'.

Tune in for the next gripping instalment: Saturday 23rd May, 4pm, Sky Sports Main Event

(Subtitles available for those watching what THB says)

  • Haha 4
Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Jordan saying “Gibbo” doing a deal with Saints is probably the only way Boro can get something from this.

Which is precisely why we should tell the little cunt to fuck off while we let the panel handle it. 

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Not sure anyone has mentioned this but we got caught doing whatever we were supposedly doing, so we couldn't use it to our benefit. So we beat boro fairly. Whats the issue ? 😁

Attempted murder is still a crime if you fail in your attempt to murder someone...

(Other analogies are available 🙂)

  • Haha 1
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Which is precisely why we should tell the little cunt to fuck off while we let the panel handle it. 

It may be better for us to have this done and dusted 🙈

who knows 

Secret Site Agent

Secret Site Agent

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Spygate: Southampton could be thrown out of Championship play-offs if found guilty of alleged spying on Middlesbrough | Football News | Sky Sports

They have a poll... 🤣

I Like the headlines:

Spygate: Southampton could be thrown out of Championship play-offs if found guilty of alleged spying on Middlesbrough

But it is also possible that the commission decides Southampton are guilty of no offence, and that the charge is dismissed. There is a whole range of possible punishments in between those two extremes.

Good Journalism this!!!!

 

  • Like 2
  • Haha 6
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
Just now, Secret Site Agent said:

I Like the headlines:

Spygate: Southampton could be thrown out of Championship play-offs if found guilty of alleged spying on Middlesbrough

But it is also possible that the commission decides Southampton are guilty of no offence, and that the charge is dismissed. There is a whole range of possible punishments in between those two extremes.

Good Journalism this!!!!

 

They're not leading the voters, no, not one bit. 

Sensationalised bollox. 

Ken Tone

Ken Tone

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Midfield_General said:

Does anyone know which lawyers the club have called in to represent us in this?

Because I was thinking the same thing. In a private case, trying to use the media or third parties to influence the right to a fair trial while it is ongoing is classed as contempt and can make a case collapse. 

I'd be amazed if our lawyers aren't gathering every single comment and article which has been issued by the staff of Middlesbrough FC, their affiliates in the press, and the wider media in order to present them as evidence that they are trying to influence the outcome of the panel. It's not like they're doing it in secret. 

I would love it - love it - if we came out fighting and issued a counter-suit along those lines and came at them for defamation and trying to pervert the course of justice. 

Clearly we just need to employ the same lawyers as Man City. 

  • Like 1
Midfield_General

Midfield_General

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

This 'wanting more time' is a phallacy. We are entitled to 14 days to answer a charge. The EFL hopes to expedite to get it done more quickly, but that was a hope. So far we've had what 4 days, if it takes until the end of the week to complete, that is not wanting more time it is merely using the time we are entitled to wisely and would still mean us responding more quickly than the rules suggest. We could take until the end of next week and still be within the time allowed under the regulations. We are not playing for time, that is the press view, we are merely doing due diligence in something that could have far reaching and damaging results. Unless the charges were completely spurious, the Club is doing the right thing in being thorough in their investigations.

The 14 days expire the day before the play-off final 🤣

When do tickets for the final go on sale? 

As soon as tickets start getting sold, there's no way they can kick us out and reinstate another club. 

Logistically alone it's just not possible, and they're not going to delay the final, and they're not going to delay selling tickets for the final, so if we stick to our guns over the 14 days it's basically impossible not to let us play in it. 

Edit: Benjii beat me to it

Edited by Midfield_General
  • Like 1
James G

James G

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, egg said:

That was 4 years ago, and it's a bit different to hiding in the bushes to be fair. 

Yeah, I suppose so

But that's something else. I read it was on a hill, then in a bush. It was a tree next to the car park. Just strange how it all changed over time 

  • Like 3
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, James G said:

Yeah, I suppose so

But that's something else. I read it was on a hill, then in a bush. It was a tree next to the car park. Just strange how it all changed over time 

Christ knows what the truth is, but there's been a ridiculously ott response whatever it is. 

  • Like 3
Adkins' Bus

Adkins' Bus

Posted
Posted (edited)

I can't see a situation where they throw us out of the playoffs. Besides the complete logistical mess it would create, it wouldn't set any precedent for future punishments. How would they then punish a future offender mid season or one that finished 10th in the league? Surely the maximum punishment would have to be a hefty fine and then a points deduction next season or next time we are in the EFL, if we go up.

Edited by Adkins' Bus
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted

Am hoping that both clubs have been briefed about potential punishments, maybe we have been given some indication that our place in the final isn't under threat, which is why we seem so calm about it. On the other hand, Middlesborough as the potentially aggrieved party still have to go through the motions of playing the injured party for appearence sakes to placate their fans. 

tisspahars

tisspahars

Posted
Posted

As ever, it's the betting angle from me.......Betfair have no option but to keep their promotion market open. You can currently back Middlesbrough at 10/1 to go up. May be of some interest as to what sort of chance there is of us being chucked out and also of interest to people who think "there is literally zero chance" of that happening as you can of course lay them.....

  • Like 1
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)

In a game of footballing misdemeanours Top Trumps, who wins out of us and Hull City?

Financial irregularities > Having a sneaky butcher's at a training session, surely...? 

 

Screenshot_20260513-115420-921.png

Edited by trousers
  • Like 3
EssEffCee

EssEffCee

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Turkish said:

According to SSN this was the crime scene. The spy was hiding behind this tree then when seen ran into the bogs to get changed. The outrage, the tears, the over the top reporting with everyone having an opinion. Its actually comical 

 

IMG_0798.jpeg

Fuck off did they genuinely send someone to report live from the scene 😂

  • Like 1
sockeye

sockeye

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Its like they wanted to get caught, absolutely no effort to hide or be subtle

intentional move to shithouse boro

Tonda's tricky saints

Edited by sockeye
saintstowin

saintstowin

Posted
Posted

It's a good point mentioned about thinking ahead to when it happens again - and we all know it does happen and with more attention will likely come up in the future, hopefully not us doing it. 

Because the fact it's connected with a play off game shouldn't mean the punishment is escalated, compared to a league fixture.

And the EFL should be thinking carefully about not setting a very dangerous precedent.

If it was a league fixture you could argue they may award the game to the other team. But much more likely the guilty party receives a fine/points deduction, because it would be a stretch to give points to a team based on a scenario with no certain impact on the result of the game between them. Other teams could rightly be upset as they are drawn into it because another team is given free points.

Far easier for future cases is just to punish the guilty. And that's when the EFL needs to think carefully.

Because, one thing that definitely doesn't happen in a league scenario is the guilty being kicked out of the league, or told they can't be promoted that season. It's not proportional. And in effect that's what the outcome would be if we're not allowed to play the final or kicked out after we've won it.

This is alongside all the hopefully sensible EFL thinking about what a mess it would be if we challenge a disproportionate outcome.

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