Long Overdue Change of Tactics

We led the league in possession last season, but failed to break into the top four. As the Dutch showed against the Spanish and Atletico Madrid against Barca, possession is no longer everything. The new way is quick counter attacking into space, from midfield. The rapier like football the Dutch have played in this WC has changed the landscape. For attacking at pace you need the players and let's face it, without J Rod we just didn't have the personnel to play this way. We were pretty to watch but frustrating at times and were quickly found out by, for instance, Spurs. We were just not going to ever challenge for the top 4 with the squad we had.

I'm hoping that the rebuilding on youth and imports that Ronald knows can play the way he likes, will shake up the whole league. He had to change the squad to fit the way football is going. I can't wait....

Surely you can only counter attack quickly into space if the other team allow you that space? Fine against attacking sides, but the Premier League is quite full of teams that sit behind the ball.

I've been thinking this. For last season we played some great football but so many time we dominated and still lost. We did lack pace and whilst it's hard to replace the technical skill of players like Lallana and Lambert we do at least have a chance to shake things up a bit. So much now depends on who we bring in to replace those that are leaving.

I'm hoping that the rebuilding on youth and imports that Ronald knows can play the way he likes, will shake up the whole league. He had to change the squad to fit the way football is going. I can't wait....

I admire your positivity but I recall Lowe saying something similar the last time we had a Dutch experiment. For me, the proof of the pudding will be in whether we bring in quality (international standard) replacements. If not we are simply going backwards.

It would be nice if we have any actual players left to implement it.

Im hoping we dont change much except to add a striker thats able to provide much needed mobility.

Yes please. Last season we dominated possession but only played at one pace.

Im hoping we dont change much except to add a striker thats able to provide much needed mobility.

Agree - above all, don't want us to revert to some drop deep, counterattacking style that the Dutch have sometimes been known for. Love the high aggression pressing.

Clearly our tactics were a major strength last season. One of very few teams that had a clear style.

Tika-taka was always pretty to behold for a short while but rapidly became dull and tedious as a spectacle. Few are lamenting it's demise.

Koeman has a reputation from Feyenoord at being good at changing tactics during games, which in this regard will be an improvement on Poch. Last season we were pretty much a first half team, we got loads of our points from putting weaker sides away in the first 45.

Im looking forward to nodding sagely at my spurs supporting mates when they complain about that next season

Agree - above all, don't want us to revert to some drop deep, counterattacking style that the Dutch have sometimes been known for. Love the high aggression pressing.

Exactly. We tried a bit of counter-attacking, early in Adkins reign, it failed really. The way we play is excellent, I really dont want to move from that and Im surprised anyone else does.

The only realy differences from Poch would be to take a few more chances, effectively under MoPo it was a risk free strategy, keep the ball and probe. If we have possession around the oppositions box Id much rather have a few pops or try a few more through balls

We need an injection of pace for that style. Pace scares the most accomplished of defenders, pace a skill is destructive. Finding those players is obviously the hard part.

I tend to agree with GM, although I really enjoyed the way we played last year and certainly wouldn't call any change of tactics "long overdue".

Our late-2012-13 and 2013-14 style was the product of a unique combination of a manager and a player group. We won't have that combination next season, but I have a feeling that Pochettino won't either; it will be interesting to see if he can successfully impose that style on an entirely new player group which includes some who may not be suited to it, physically or psychologically. And, even if he can, it will be interesting to see if it's effective enough to push Spurs much higher than where they finished last year.

The other angle is that World Cups tend to set a new style trend, and I've never seen a World Cup more likely to do so than this one. It's very much a skill-based front foot style and it has been great to watch, it has shown a number of established countries to be "behind the times" (including the hitherto-dominant Spain), and it has enabled some less-established countries to progress far beyond where most of us expected.

By the time our Summer transfer business is done, we just might be looking at a better season than the last, with a deeper squad of players who are better suited to the way the game is going.

Whether we did it by luck or good judgment is a debate for another day.

Aston Villa at home last season. Extreme example but worthy

playing with two overlapping full-backs (call them what you will) worked back in the L1 / Championship days when we had Richardson, Harding and Fox....and was carried on by Clyne, Chambers and Shaw.

But in the Prem..... we " got found out ". High possession % didn't necessarily lead to more goals, and we need an alterantive strategy. Now we have the real chance to consider a good Plan B.

RK will start with a blank team sheet (well, almost) and so it'll be very interesting to see what he comes up with. The mainstay of our attack has been Lambert and Lallana, both excellent ball skills, but lacking in real pace.

Jay Rod manages to provide a combination of both. I always liked a " good, old-fashioned big striker up front " .(...even if they don't spend all their time in the centre circle), but if we are to change anything, expect to see a few fast players incorperated into the set-up, and a bit more (creative) long-ball play. I think many people confuse " long ball play " with......" the big boot upfield " (which is not creative, and only good for clearing your lines).

My favourite goal last season was Lambert's long ball out of defence upto JayRod in... " the Fulham game "- was it ? Excellent movement.

Rickie may not be with us any longer, but the tactic was superb and well-worked. Seeing the Dutch midfielder feeding Robben in the World Cup underlined how successful this can be.

A bit more of this, and a little less of the 30 passes keep-possession football would entertain me.

Strachan called possession football 'propoganda' football. Sometimes you need to be braver on the ball instead of taking the Ray Wilkins option.

We finished a creditable 8th in the Premier League playing generally very good football. We lacked flexibility in formation and a Plan B from time to time but let's not reinvent history to make ourselves feel better about the current debacle is delusional. We had a very good manager and a very good step squad who played very good football.

The end of an era................

We finished a creditable 8th in the Premier League playing generally very good football. We lacked flexibility in formation and a Plan B from time to time but let's not reinvent history to make ourselves feel better about the current debacle is delusional. We had a very good manager and a very good step squad who played very good football.

 

The end of an era................

Yep.

And the beginning of a new one. Just sit back and enjoy the ride - because, actually, we have no alternative.

playing with two overlapping full-backs (call them what you will) worked back in the L1 / Championship days when we had Richardson, Harding and Fox....and was carried on by Clyne, Chambers and Shaw.

 

But in the Prem..... we " got found out ". High possession % didn't necessarily lead to more goals, and we need an alterantive strategy. Now we have the real chance to consider a good Plan B.

 

RK will start with a blank team sheet (well, almost) and so it'll be very interesting to see what he comes up with. The mainstay of our attack has been Lambert and Lallana, both excellent ball skills, but lacking in real pace.

 

Jay Rod manages to provide a combination of both. I always liked a " good, old-fashioned big striker up front " .(...even if they don't spend all their time in the centre circle), but if we are to change anything, expect to see a few fast players incorperated into the set-up, and a bit more (creative) long-ball play. I think many people confuse " long ball play " with......" the big boot upfield " (which is not creative, and only good for clearing your lines).

 

My favourite goal last season was Lambert's long ball out of defence upto JayRod in... " the Fulham game "- was it ? Excellent movement.

 

Rickie may not be with us any longer, but the tactic was superb and well-worked. Seeing the Dutch midfielder feeding Robben in the World Cup underlined how successful this can be.

A bit more of this, and a little less of the 30 passes keep-possession football would entertain me.

SUPERB summary.... spot on.....

I have been feeling disillusioned with the Board who don't seem to have done what they said they would do, which was to allow Koeman to talk to the want away players with a view to keeping them. The club also had the strength of the players' contacts on its side but seems to have readily given way without the transfer fees rising much over the originally reported bids.

On the other hand, the three who went with England to the WC have only a handful of caps between them and could be described as the England reserves. Shaw will do better, but not so certain about Lallana and Lambert. Maybe we will be better off without them, and perhaps the Board had to mislead the fans about trying to keep them as a negotiating tactic. None of our players have had much of an impact in Brazil and even Morgan, who looked good will probably remain a sub for France at best. So to replace those who have gone or are going, we may not have to look in the top drawer. Add to that, the fact that Pochettino's coaching team did get stuck with possession football and an inability to turn possession into goals. The much vaunted 8th place finish was less impressive when you look at the points table, where we were well off the pace of the top 6 or 7.

Conclusion, I suggest, is that we need to wait and see the quality of the new recruits - and whether Koeman can improve on the method of playing.

I am also hoping that there are a few more efforts from outside the box as we did at times try to walk the ball over the line, there is nothing quite like a 30 yarder ala Rodriguez Columbia.

It's a very positive attitude to take - and I agree about football moving on from purely possession to a pacy counter-attack style but I'd still like to see us attempt this from a position of strength rather than a position of weakness. And selling three of our regular first team squad - three KEY players is definitely making us weaker. We had a style that was very solid. It would have been good to adapt that and have the solidity to fall back on. Right now it feels like developing Plan B not because it's a good complement to Plan A but because you've suddenly found that you can't do Plan A any more.

I would like a continuation of last years tactics but with the implementation of a plan b to counter hoofing teams.

We finished a creditable 8th in the Premier League playing generally very good football. We lacked flexibility in formation and a Plan B from time to time but let's not reinvent history to make ourselves feel better about the current debacle is delusional. We had a very good manager and a very good step squad who played very good football.

 

The end of an era................

We'll it was a very short "era" , Poch wasn't around long enough to be considered as highly as he seems to be by those in his awe. There are plenty of managers in all walks of life who build careers on riding a wave and not hanging around long enough to be found out. I found his style lacking excitement. I am looking forward to the new era with a proven high calibre manager and a war chest of which we have never seen the like. Can't wait!

and we got Sammy Lee as a coach now, what could possibly.....

Thank goodness, I thought I was going bonkers. I thought a lot of our football last season was dull. Lots of possession, but rarely an end product. Very few games (at home at least) to really get the pulse racing.

Personally, I'm looking forward to a much more interesting season next year.

The other angle is that World Cups tend to set a new style trend, and I've never seen a World Cup more likely to do so than this one. It's very much a skill-based front foot style and it has been great to watch, it has shown a number of established countries to be "behind the times" (including the hitherto-dominant Spain), and it has enabled some less-established countries to progress far beyond where most of us expected.

Perhaps one reason that we'll see more competition at international level is that "top" countries can't loot the "smaller" countries of their star players. Domestic leagues will probably become rather less competitive in contrast.

Tika-taka was always pretty to behold for a short while but rapidly became dull and tedious as a spectacle. Few are lamenting it's demise.

I doubt many if any agree with you. Tika-taka is a difficult skill that only a very few teams master and invariably they are successful. We were successful last year in the sense of our best ever PL finish and points tally. Dull and tedious? You must be easily bored. No doubt you would have approved of Allardyce as our new coach with his exciting blend of hoofball and unarmed physical combat?

Thank goodness, I thought I was going bonkers. I thought a lot of our football last season was dull. Lots of possession, but rarely an end product. Very few games (at home at least) to really get the pulse racing.

Personally, I'm looking forward to a much more interesting season next year.

we were quite weak at times in the final quarter and lacked the killing off of opponents. I wouldn't go quite as far as you and say it was dull but it was frustrating. Games like Newcastle at home should have been the norm but they weren't.

Having said that, I did find the back end of the season a little pointless with nothing to play for. Personally I was rather hoping that the players would push on and try and finish one or two places higher, but this just didn't happen (eg Cardiff at home). Maybe the players thought that we had reached as high as possible and could go no further. If that was the case, it would be better to have players who believed in more. However, someone said these deals were done in March, so not a surprise that there were some lackluster results.

If our tactics were bad with a Manager who is strong tactically and got a record PL points total I dread to think what fans of WH, Stoke, Spurs, Fulham, Cardiff, Newcastle etc must have made of their tactics.

If our tactics were bad with a Manager who is strong tactically and got a record PL points total I dread to think what fans of WH, Stoke, Spurs, Fulham, Cardiff, Newcastle etc must have made of their tactics.

Their message boards are full of rays of sunshine...just like this one! The Southampton way ...end of an era....Poch was here what 18 months?

I love the fact we have fans who can predict how the season will go and we are doomed and relegated and worse than all the other sides even those that came up - am amazed they are not all millionaires and predicted the lottery numbers.

Truth is and where I am...I just don't know but it will not be as bad as going bust, the Lowe end of an era years where we had the Green army, it wont be as bad as at the Dell when we got stuffed 3-0 by Bolton who were sh1te, it wont be as bad as the Dixon Speedie partnership or having a team where we are forced to play players like James, Wotton, Gillet, it won't be as bad as having Redknap setting up the kids for a slaughter in the Carling cup.

I would like a continuation of last years tactics but with the implementation of a plan b to counter hoofing teams.

we could try playing 13 players ....with two extra men at the back....and hope the ref. can't count, but I wouldn't rely on it.

..that type of " goal-chance " situation only works very occasionally, and is only highlighted when it works. The rest of the time it's only desperate defending with the crowd shouting " ANYWHERE ".

We led the league in possession last season, but failed to break into the top four. As the Dutch showed against the Spanish and Atletico Madrid against Barca, possession is no longer everything. The new way is quick counter attacking into space, from midfield. The rapier like football the Dutch have played in this WC has changed the landscape. For attacking at pace you need the players and let's face it, without J Rod we just didn't have the personnel to play this way. We were pretty to watch but frustrating at times and were quickly found out by, for instance, Spurs. We were just not going to ever challenge for the top 4 with the squad we had.

 

I'm hoping that the rebuilding on youth and imports that Ronald knows can play the way he likes, will shake up the whole league. He had to change the squad to fit the way football is going. I can't wait....

So what you're saying is that playing into the holes left by playing your full backs 20 yards up the pitch is the obvious (and I do mean bleeding obvious) way to counter a team playing 4-2-3-1?

Like everyone did against us in 2012/13 under Pochettino? Well THIS is a revelation...

Interesting article on the pressing tactics deployed by Pochettino & Co ....

http://eplindex.com/55721/pressing-analysis-pochettino-sampaoli-guardiola-bielsa.html

Our tactics had little to do with it, they were fundamentally sound. The lack of depth in the squad in some critical matches and the overall lack of a striker who was able to create his own chances was the reason we didn't do better. Teams could park the bus knowing that we usually didn't score from range and that we weren't often going to run through them. That Rodriguez was able to until his injury was one of the massive upsides and the reason he was top scorer. That Lallana did it a couple of times was a bonus, but the glaring lack of someone with top level finishing ability as soon as Osvaldo was exiled was the biggest problem.

Our possession wasn't propaganda, it was often in dangerous positions, but we often just didn't have the pace of foot or mind to unlock defences. Shaw's crappy final ball was part of it too, though once Rodriguez was gone his attacking threat improved.

Tika-taka was always pretty to behold for a short while but rapidly became dull and tedious as a spectacle. Few are lamenting it's demise.

I am with you. Also hated the arrogance of not playing with recognised strikers. Thank God this WC has seen the great strikers scoring great goals.

Interesting article on the pressing tactics deployed by Pochettino & Co ....

 

http://eplindex.com/55721/pressing-analysis-pochettino-sampaoli-guardiola-bielsa.html

Cheers- really interesting

Our tactics had little to do with it, they were fundamentally sound. The lack of depth in the squad in some critical matches and the overall lack of a striker who was able to create his own chances was the reason we didn't do better. Teams could park the bus knowing that we usually didn't score from range and that we weren't often going to run through them. That Rodriguez was able to until his injury was one of the massive upsides and the reason he was top scorer. That Lallana did it a couple of times was a bonus, but the glaring lack of someone with top level finishing ability as soon as Osvaldo was exiled was the biggest problem.

 

Our possession wasn't propaganda, it was often in dangerous positions, but we often just didn't have the pace of foot or mind to unlock defences. Shaw's crappy final ball was part of it too, though once Rodriguez was gone his attacking threat improved.

Pretty much this, astounding that many are asking for a complete overhaul in what was, as you say, fundamentally an excellent way of playing. It was obvious that J Rod was used as our furthest forward striker and often ghosted in from wide positions, a tactic used more and more these days as CBs essentially can be dragged out of position by a deeper lying striker and the 'wide forward' is able to get in behind, usually only looked after by what are usually attack minded FBs.

The problem was always the striker, and it was last season too, many said if we have to rely on Lambert there for a season we would struggle and I stick with that. Its not his ability but the fact it isnt his game. Another reason that parking the bus against us was due to what appeared to be a risk averse strategy, the priority was possession, now, it was needed a little as high pressing is tiring, so the idea is to reduce the tempo and thus take a breather but too often we camped on the 18 yard box waiting for a run in behind which was never going to happen.

This year Id like to see much of the same but with a little more freedom of expression and a striker, perhaps even a wide man too thats a bit more mobile.

Koeman may have other ideas, but realistically we wont venture too far from what we have seen the past 3 years IMO

Finally a great thread on the forum.

Dont think we will change the from "The Southampton Way" but with more pace and a new striker will be OK.