View Poll Results: Saints Web Definitely Not Official Second Referendum

Voters
129. You may not vote on this poll
  • Leave Before - Leave Now

    26 20.16%
  • Leave Before - Remain Now

    7 5.43%
  • Leave Before - Not Bothered Now

    2 1.55%
  • Remain Before - Remain Now

    74 57.36%
  • Remain Before - Leave Now

    5 3.88%
  • Remain Before - Not Bothered Now

    0 0%
  • Not Bothered Before - Leave Now

    2 1.55%
  • Not Bothered Before - Remain Now

    4 3.10%
  • I've never been bothered - Why am I on this Thread?

    2 1.55%
  • No second Ref - 2016 was Definitive and Binding

    7 5.43%
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Thread: Brexit - Enter at Your Own Risk

  1. #13101

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Jeff’s imaginary life where he has friends. I’m sure to the people you know you are quite the figure of mocking.
    Who's projecting now?

    Look, we all know you've been following me around since you were made to look like a horrible bastard on that thread.

    What I find strange is that with your raison d'etre on this forum is that you don't recognise what's being said.

    Clearly you're not as intelligent as you think you are.
    Last edited by Unbelievable Jeff; 19-08-2019 at 07:18 AM.

  2. #13102

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    "What's driving Brexit? From here it looks like it's probably the Duke of Edinburgh"

    ( Milton Jones at the Edinburgh Fringe )

  3. #13103

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    Take a look at ����British Best���� (@BRITISH_BEST_): https://twitter.com/BRITISH_BEST_?s=09

    This one is usually good value.

  4. #13104

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjii View Post
    Take a look at ����British Best���� (@BRITISH_BEST_): https://twitter.com/BRITISH_BEST_?s=09

    This one is usually good value.
    The solution to post-Brexit food supply issues, M&S tinned sausages.

  5. #13105

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    The solution to post-Brexit food supply issues, M&S tinned sausages.
    Suggestions that this might just be a parody account!

  6. #13106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winnersaint View Post
    Suggestions that this might just be a parody account!
    I think that is blindingly obvious.

  7. #13107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    To be fair, I only know 4 people who voted leave (or 4 people who I know for sure have voted that way). 2 people are family, and I see them very rarely, but they live in Bradford and were concerned about the strain the "pa**s" were putting on the NHS. The other are two are some of the missus friends from school, who take their kids to cricket on a Friday night, but won't buy second hand cricket equipment from Ebay as they don't want their kid to be wearing some "****ing w**s" helmet.

    The only other leavers outside of JOB's radio show and TV I have 100% certainty that voted leave are on here, and as we've seen over and over from people like Wes etc, they are clearly racists. Perhaps not all leave voters are racists, but the arguments on here are so poor that it must be the only reason.
    So the sum total of ALL the Brexit voters you know is FOUR! TWO of which are from your own racist family, the other two are racist friends of your wife!

    Based on those FOUR people that you know - and a few randoms on the innernetz who may or may not be telling the whole truth - you have concluded that the other 17.4 MILLION people who voted for Brexit are beyond any doubt utter racists and are therefore 'bad people'!

    If you have such a hatred of racists, why is your wife friends with at least two?

  8. #13108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    So the sum total of ALL the Brexit voters you know is FOUR! TWO of which are from your own racist family, the other two are racist friends of your wife!

    Based on those FOUR people that you know - and a few randoms on the innernetz who may or may not be telling the whole truth - you have concluded that the other 17.4 MILLION people who voted for Brexit are beyond any doubt utter racists and are therefore 'bad people'!

    If you have such a hatred of racists, why is your wife friends with at least two?
    Because I am not my wife, and TBF until 3 weeks ago we didn't realise they were that way inclined. I doubt we'll see much of them now though.

    I've got one though, and it's a challenge I've come up with on here a number of times and no-one has passed it yet.

    Give me up with a good reason for Brexit.

    If you can't, I'll pop you in the racist/xenophobic camp? That's fair enough isn't it? It's a pretty simple one to come up with a good reason, so I'm sure you'll be able to do it pretty easily.

    I'll be waiting with baited breath.

  9. #13109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Just go back and look at the Shamima Begum thread. Comes across as a proper nasty bastardy.
    Funny, I get that vibe on this thread too. Feel sorry for his kids.

  10. #13110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Because I am not my wife, and TBF until 3 weeks ago we didn't realise they were that way inclined. I doubt we'll see much of them now though.

    I've got one though, and it's a challenge I've come up with on here a number of times and no-one has passed it yet.

    Give me up with a good reason for Brexit.

    If you can't, I'll pop you in the racist/xenophobic camp? That's fair enough isn't it? It's a pretty simple one to come up with a good reason, so I'm sure you'll be able to do it pretty easily.

    I'll be waiting with baited breath.
    You are either a bit thick or on a wind-up, wether you agree with them or not the reasons the country voted for Brexit are quite clear. The effects of mass uncontrolled immigration are obviously a major factor, certainly amongst the leavers I know.

    You must have a very dim view of the British public if you think the 17million are all racists.

  11. #13111

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    You are either a bit thick or on a wind-up, wether you agree with them or not the reasons the country voted for Brexit are quite clear. The effects of mass uncontrolled immigration are obviously a major factor, certainly amongst the leavers I know.

    You must have a very dim view of the British public if you think the 17million are all racists.
    Oh yeah, I have a very dim view of the British public - as I've said a number of times on here I am ashamed to be a British citizen a lot of the time now.

    Take the control out of it, because we do have control, we just choose not to use it.

    So the issue is mass immigration - does that not strike you as, you know, a bit racist? Remember how much they all loved that Farage "breaking point" poster?

  12. #13112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Oh yeah, I have a very dim view of the British public - as I've said a number of times on here I am ashamed to be a British citizen a lot of the time now.

    Take the control out of it, because we do have control, we just choose not to use it.

    So the issue is mass immigration - does that not strike you as, you know, a bit racist? Remember how much they all loved that Farage "breaking point" poster?
    The vast majority of EU migration is the same race as us, not sure what racism has got to do with it. Skin colour is irrelevant when you are talking about the effects such as pressure on public services and wage depression etc.

    Having said that I expect a large amount of old people voted leave purely because they hate Germany, that’s still not racist though.

  13. #13113

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    Quote Originally Posted by aintforever View Post
    The vast majority of EU migration is the same race as us, not sure what racism has got to do with it. Skin colour is irrelevant when you are talking about the effects such as pressure on public services and wage depression etc.

    Having said that I expect a large amount of old people voted leave purely because they hate Germany, thatís still not racist though.
    Given you've been asked to provide evidence for these effects countless times before and each and every time have failed to do so; I guess you're not going to bother now.

  14. #13114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Because I am not my wife, and TBF until 3 weeks ago we didn't realise they were that way inclined. I doubt we'll see much of them now though.

    I've got one though, and it's a challenge I've come up with on here a number of times and no-one has passed it yet.

    Give me up with a good reason for Brexit.

    If you can't, I'll pop you in the racist/xenophobic camp? That's fair enough isn't it? It's a pretty simple one to come up with a good reason, so I'm sure you'll be able to do it pretty easily.

    I'll be waiting with baited breath.
    There really is no point giving you a reason why people voted for Brexit as you've already tagged 17.4 million people as racists! Numerous times you've been given reasons why people voted and you have dismissed them all as racist!

    Feel free to put me in whatever box you feel fits, however, not that it will make a blind bit of difference to you, my Mrs (of 19 years) is from a town called Radom so European immigration has never been an issue for me.

  15. #13115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Oh yeah, I have a very dim view of the British public - as I've said a number of times on here I am ashamed to be a British citizen a lot of the time now.

    Take the control out of it, because we do have control, we just choose not to use it.

    So the issue is mass immigration - does that not strike you as, you know, a bit racist? Remember how much they all loved that Farage "breaking point" poster?
    I read a good article about your affliction today. A lot of it was relevant but this bit in particular is apt:

    "Leaving the EU is a big political, legal, economic, constitutional, geopolitical, financial, trade and commercial decision. It is the type of decision traditionally taken by political, legal and business elites Ė the people who sit in the first-class compartment on the train of our national life.
    In June 2016, the train was de-classified and millions of Ďgammoní plebs invaded the quiet, middle-class comfort of the elites. They have still not recovered from it. It has driven them half mad with fury. They are overwhelmed by spite and malice. Their response has been brutal and swift, and we havenít seen the last of it yet."

  16. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Who's projecting now?

    Look, we all know you've been following me around since you were made to look like a horrible bastard on that thread.

    What I find strange is that with your raison d'etre on this forum is that you don't recognise what's being said.

    Clearly you're not as intelligent as you think you are.
    So cute you think I follow you. Remember your DM inviting me for a pint? Little creepy.
    Hell hath no fury.....

    My thoughts on you - pretentious, deranged phoney. Oh and not too bright.

    Maybe Johnny will go for a pint with you? He hasnít got much going on and needs a break from studying Saintsweb

  17. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Funny, I get that vibe on this thread too. Feel sorry for his kids.
    Ahh you never going to have any children john? Oh well youíll always have your Saintsweb grudges.

    Btw whilst looking back at PMs youíd sent me one back in 2013 - what was that about? Are you like Jeff sensitive and jealous and upset as I didnít reply?

  18. #13118

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    Ahh you never going to have any children john? Oh well you’ll always have your Saintsweb grudges.

    Btw whilst looking back at PMs you’d sent me one back in 2013 - what was that about? Are you like Jeff sensitive and jealous and upset as I didn’t reply?
    Lololol

    You still haven't realised that johnnyboy and me are two different posters?

  19. #13119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    To be fair, I only know 4 people who voted leave (or 4 people who I know for sure have voted that way). 2 people are family, and I see them very rarely, but they live in Bradford and were concerned about the strain the "pa**s" were putting on the NHS. The other are two are some of the missus friends from school, who take their kids to cricket on a Friday night, but won't buy second hand cricket equipment from Ebay as they don't want their kid to be wearing some "****ing w**s" helmet.
    These conversations definitely happened

  20. #13120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weston Super Saint View Post
    There really is no point giving you a reason why people voted for Brexit as you've already tagged 17.4 million people as racists! Numerous times you've been given reasons why people voted and you have dismissed them all as racist!

    Feel free to put me in whatever box you feel fits, however, not that it will make a blind bit of difference to you, my Mrs (of 19 years) is from a town called Radom so European immigration has never been an issue for me.
    Not true, thick or racist.

    And no, I didn't think you could.

  21. #13121

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    Quote Originally Posted by whelk View Post
    So cute you think I follow you. Remember your DM inviting me for a pint? Little creepy.
    Hell hath no fury.....

    My thoughts on you - pretentious, deranged phoney. Oh and not too bright.

    Maybe Johnny will go for a pint with you? He hasn’t got much going on and needs a break from studying Saintsweb
    I can't find anything like that in my messages - however I did find this PM from where I called you out on this before:

    Feb 2015 - Title: What's your beef internet warrior
    Quote Originally Posted by whelk
    Sorry was a bit OTT on reflection. Think I got miffed by your reply to someone who seemed like he was being reasonable.

    It is far easier to mock/abuse than be serious of course.

    April 2015 - Title: ????
    Quote Originally Posted by whelk
    Told you before I don't have a beef with you. That is the truth.
    I can't resist responding though. Genuinely aren't out to get you.
    You said before that no one likes me and I'm a nasty piece of work. I don't see this place where anyone may like me. I have run ins with plenty.
    You post not understanding disposable income made me bite. I will try and resist though. Or at least be a little bit politer;-)
    So as you can see, you've been following me around for years and now I don't know what to believe. It seems you're a nasty bully that follows people around until someone calls you out on it, and then you become an apologetic pussy?

    So which is it, forum enforcer?
    Last edited by Unbelievable Jeff; 20-08-2019 at 05:28 AM.

  22. #13122

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Lololol

    You still haven't realised that johnnyboy and me are two different posters?
    He's having a mare recently.

    Personally I think he needs a new username as it's just been too many embarrassing losses for him.
    Last edited by Unbelievable Jeff; 20-08-2019 at 05:41 AM.

  23. #13123

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    Quote Originally Posted by hypochondriac View Post
    I read a good article about your affliction today. A lot of it was relevant but this bit in particular is apt:

    "Leaving the EU is a big political, legal, economic, constitutional, geopolitical, financial, trade and commercial decision. It is the type of decision traditionally taken by political, legal and business elites Ė the people who sit in the first-class compartment on the train of our national life.
    In June 2016, the train was de-classified and millions of Ďgammoní plebs invaded the quiet, middle-class comfort of the elites. They have still not recovered from it. It has driven them half mad with fury. They are overwhelmed by spite and malice. Their response has been brutal and swift, and we havenít seen the last of it yet."
    That's the UKIP/Brexit Party/Post-May Tory view - the more sanguine perspective is that those 'elites' pay most of the tax that funds public services that Leave voting areas depend on, and in fact the 'Gammons' are largely over 65, have their pensions locked up and don't use so many public services. There was a clear split on education in the referendum, I'm not so sure of Labour's view of class as a factor and income is much less clear. It's far more the Baby Boomers pulling the drawbridge up again - as they did in the 70s as strikers, in the 80s as right to buy and made really good money under Blair. All of which is fine but now they are stopping their children and especially grandchildren from doing the same. The real anger is going to be in leave-voting areas when austerity extends even further, which after the banking crisis which is where the anger at percieved elites come from, and which Cameron used as excuse to slash public services to bail out the banks. It will be a lot less pleasant than Remain protestors on marches with placards in places like Barnsley and Sunderland, which suffered badly in the 1980s. Being hammered twice could make Orgreave look like a tea party.

  24. #13124

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    That's the UKIP/Brexit Party/Post-May Tory view - the more sanguine perspective is that those 'elites' pay most of the tax that funds public services that Leave voting areas depend on, and in fact the 'Gammons' are largely over 65, have their pensions locked up and don't use so many public services. There was a clear split on education in the referendum, I'm not so sure of Labour's view of class as a factor and income is much less clear. It's far more the Baby Boomers pulling the drawbridge up again - as they did in the 70s as strikers, in the 80s as right to buy and made really good money under Blair. All of which is fine but now they are stopping their children and especially grandchildren from doing the same. The real anger is going to be in leave-voting areas when austerity extends even further, which after the banking crisis which is where the anger at percieved elites come from, and which Cameron used as excuse to slash public services to bail out the banks. It will be a lot less pleasant than Remain protestors on marches with placards in places like Barnsley and Sunderland, which suffered badly in the 1980s. Being hammered twice could make Orgreave look like a tea party.
    You have no idea how it will turn out

    To offer an opinion as fact (like you have) is quite funny

  25. #13125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    I can't find anything like that in my messages - however I did find this PM from where I called you out on this before:

    Feb 2015 - Title: What's your beef internet warrior



    April 2015 - Title: ????


    So as you can see, you've been following me around for years and now I don't know what to believe. It seems you're a nasty bully that follows people around until someone calls you out on it, and then you become an apologetic pussy?

    So which is it, forum enforcer?
    PM means Private Message I thought, therefore I assume that means you are not expected to share them!! Obviously if they are of a threatening or grooming nature then fair game but somebody handing the hand of peace is a bit of a shame that it used to beat someone with.

  26. #13126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You have no idea how it will turn out

    To offer an opinion as fact (like you have) is quite funny
    Just because you have no idea about what will happen doesn’t mean that the rest of us don’t.

    It is going to be economically disastrous. You can’t cut yourself off from your biggest trading partner and expect things to stay the same. We’re not just closing doors, we’re slamming them shut.

  27. #13127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You have no idea how it will turn out

    To offer an opinion as fact (like you have) is quite funny
    Neither do you, but we can only go on what Boris's pledges were during the leadership election. One of them was to give people earning over £50k p.a. a tax cut, which the IFS estimated would cost over £10bn. Where do think the money is coming from?

    Nice as that would be for me, I'm pretty sure that the constituencies I cited wouldn't be voting for that were it on offer in 2016. Look at the research post-referendum from those areas, it's clear they felt disenfranchised by London, by the financial crises and austerity. There was also the aspect of feeling the EU were giving them charity - but that's because successive UK governments have not invested in the regions. Cornwall asked for continuation of ERDF-type grants the day after the result despite being over 60% leave. The Shared Prosperity Fund isn't going to anywhere near cut it. The NHS extra funding Hancock announced was exposed as anything but.

    This is the issue Boris has - you can make lots of promises and vague platitudes - but now he has to deliver on them with no majority to work with and a very dangerous Irish issue. He can go for a GE, but many of the leave-voting areas won't vote for a Brexit Party/Tory MP. They may feel strongly on national identity, but they still have to put bread on the table.

    My original response to Hypo was that class or income were not key determinents in 2016 and that's true, it was age, educational level and geography. The idea of the Dulwich College, elite banker (Farage) and the Bullingdon Club PM somehow breaking up a middle class clique is nonsense. They are the elite, not people living in a four bed detached, along with Murdoch, Barclay Brothers, and they are pulling a lot of people's strings. The 'Gammons' (the over 65 are by far the biggest leave-voting group) mentioned are people who secured their financial future a long time ago and have been pulling the drawbridge for many years. Not some oppressed majority invading the BBC.

  28. #13128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    It is going to be economically disastrous. You can’t cut yourself off from your biggest trading partner and expect things to stay the same. We’re not just closing doors, we’re slamming them shut.
    Just think what the effect of 0% import tariffs will be, especially when the EU imposes tariffs on trade going the other way.

  29. #13129

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    PM means Private Message I thought, therefore I assume that means you are not expected to share them!! Obviously if they are of a threatening or grooming nature then fair game but somebody handing the hand of peace is a bit of a shame that it used to beat someone with.
    He was the one who started mentioning PMs where I apparently asked him out for a drink, so surely it's fair game? I wouldn't have gone there if he didn't. I wouldn't have said it was the hand of peace as such, it just shows he has a very different personality to his online hardman persona (thank God, as he's pretty detestable on here).

    TBH though, it's more an indication of how long this following of me around, trying to trip me up, has been going on.
    Last edited by Unbelievable Jeff; 20-08-2019 at 10:14 AM.

  30. #13130

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Neither do you, but we can only go on what Boris's pledges were during the leadership election. One of them was to give people earning over £50k p.a. a tax cut, which the IFS estimated would cost over £10bn. Where do think the money is coming from?

    Nice as that would be for me, I'm pretty sure that the constituencies I cited wouldn't be voting for that were it on offer in 2016. Look at the research post-referendum from those areas, it's clear they felt disenfranchised by London, by the financial crises and austerity. There was also the aspect of feeling the EU were giving them charity - but that's because successive UK governments have not invested in the regions. Cornwall asked for continuation of ERDF-type grants the day after the result despite being over 60% leave. The Shared Prosperity Fund isn't going to anywhere near cut it. The NHS extra funding Hancock announced was exposed as anything but.

    This is the issue Boris has - you can make lots of promises and vague platitudes - but now he has to deliver on them with no majority to work with and a very dangerous Irish issue. He can go for a GE, but many of the leave-voting areas won't vote for a Brexit Party/Tory MP. They may feel strongly on national identity, but they still have to put bread on the table.

    My original response to Hypo was that class or income were not key determinents in 2016 and that's true, it was age, educational level and geography. The idea of the Dulwich College, elite banker (Farage) and the Bullingdon Club PM somehow breaking up a middle class clique is nonsense. They are the elite, not people living in a four bed detached, along with Murdoch, Barclay Brothers, and they are pulling a lot of people's strings. The 'Gammons' (the over 65 are by far the biggest leave-voting group) mentioned are people who secured their financial future a long time ago and have been pulling the drawbridge for many years. Not some oppressed majority invading the BBC.
    I donít know. But I am not telling the world we are going to live in the street and harping on about the 80s

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    Maajid Nawaz on LBC good value this morning - quite a few Brians stalking these threads

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    I donít know. But I am not telling the world we are going to live in the street and harping on about the 80s
    Where have I said people are going to live in the street? People who voted leave in significant parts of England and Wales are going to feel let down if the tax cuts go ahead and more of the post-Brexit wealth (although with tax revenues initially down) gets centralised in and around London and the few public services those areas have decline but tbh that's Boris's problem not mine.

    As for the references to 1980s and 1970s, it's probably because a) a lot of Leave-voting areas were hit hard by de-industrialisation and all the evidence suggests that they are looking for something very different to what the right wing of the party are salivating over economically and socially. Also, having lived through the 1980s, the UK in the last few years and especially since 2016 feels like it has regressed back there. The political discourse is appalling - UK (Brexit/Tory Party/Momentum), US, that lunatic in Brazil (even worse than Trump) and some of the stuff out of Brussels hasn't been very clever either.

    Certainly, knuckle draggers sending footballers racist abuse every week/match seems to have come back from the 1980s as well (but via Social Media rather than the Royal Mail). Brexit can't be directly blamed for that (I disagree politely with Jeff about this) but it adds to a sense of society out of control.

    I don't happen to like it one bit, but some will no doubt (not saying you).

  33. #13133

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Just think what the effect of 0% import tariffs will be, especially when the EU imposes tariffs on trade going the other way.
    Yes - insignificant. Exchange rate variations have a much bigger effect. Then there are the handling charges for handling the goods.

    Itís no good having 0% import tariffs if youíre paying more than 20% extra for your imports. Soon to be 30% and more.

  34. #13134

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    Quote Originally Posted by badgerx16 View Post
    Just think what the effect of 0% import tariffs will be, especially when the EU imposes tariffs on trade going the other way.
    Not sure which way you're leaning with a comment like this. It's obviously not great for the British economy if it's more expensive for EU countries to buy from UK companies, or good for UK companies if it's cheap to import from abroad. I don't think it will be cheap to import though.

  35. #13135

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    Quote Originally Posted by norwaysaint View Post
    Not sure which way you're leaning with a comment like this. It's obviously not great for the British economy if it's more expensive for EU countries to buy from UK companies, or good for UK companies if it's cheap to import from abroad. I don't think it will be cheap to import though.
    It won't be cheap to import due to the currency issues. A 0% import tariff is just trying to offset the damage the weak pound has inflicted on those that rely on foreign imports.

    Essentially the treasury is having to cough up for the difference, although there may be scope for an increase in prices from British companies exporting as the weak pound will obviously help those costs for foreign consumers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint1977 View Post
    Where have I said people are going to live in the street? People who voted leave in significant parts of England and Wales are going to feel let down if the tax cuts go ahead and more of the post-Brexit wealth (although with tax revenues initially down) gets centralised in and around London and the few public services those areas have decline but tbh that's Boris's problem not mine.

    As for the references to 1980s and 1970s, it's probably because a) a lot of Leave-voting areas were hit hard by de-industrialisation and all the evidence suggests that they are looking for something very different to what the right wing of the party are salivating over economically and socially. Also, having lived through the 1980s, the UK in the last few years and especially since 2016 feels like it has regressed back there. The political discourse is appalling - UK (Brexit/Tory Party/Momentum), US, that lunatic in Brazil (even worse than Trump) and some of the stuff out of Brussels hasn't been very clever either.

    Certainly, knuckle draggers sending footballers racist abuse every week/match seems to have come back from the 1980s as well (but via Social Media rather than the Royal Mail). Brexit can't be directly blamed for that (I disagree politely with Jeff about this) but it adds to a sense of society out of control.

    I don't happen to like it one bit, but some will no doubt (not saying you).
    You have brought many aspects of history, tied them altogether to fit your own narrative

    TL;DR

    You (or any of us) have no idea why people voted for brexit and what will happen down the line

  37. #13137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Yes - insignificant. Exchange rate variations have a much bigger effect. Then there are the handling charges for handling the goods.

    It’s no good having 0% import tariffs if you’re paying more than 20% extra for your imports. Soon to be 30% and more.
    Yep not to mention that the average tariff on UK imports is pretty low to begin with – at around 2.8% and there are no guarantees that even these trivial, paltry sums would be passed onto consumers if tariffs were eliminated.
    Last edited by shurlock; 20-08-2019 at 12:44 PM.

  38. #13138

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    All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?
    I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.

  39. #13139

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?
    I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.
    Leave is the option. Any other scenario leaves this debate wide open and remain in limbo.

    A future opposition can campaign to rejoin later on and if the nation wants it, so be it.

  40. #13140

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?
    I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.
    We are already a laughing stock. The only sane, rational solution is merely to say that we’ve changed our minds and after careful consideration we have decided to revoke our withdrawal and be good little boys and girls from now on.

    You are right, the economy is being destroyed as we dither.

  41. #13141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    Leave is the option. Any other scenario leaves this debate wide open and remain in limbo.

    A future opposition can campaign to rejoin later on and if the nation wants it, so be it.
    Leaving solves nothing. This debate will intensify as time goes on. Rather than go through all the unnecessary hardships wouldn’t it be better to consult the nation now? It’s much simpler and cheaper to revoke now than rejoin later.

    I understand your reluctance but you have to realise those who voted Leave were conned and used. Nobody likes to admit to having been conned so they carry on trying to convince themselves that their decision was right all along.

  42. #13142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitey Grandad View Post
    Leaving solves nothing. This debate will intensify as time goes on. Rather than go through all the unnecessary hardships wouldnít it be better to consult the nation now? Itís much simpler and cheaper to revoke now than rejoin later.

    I understand your reluctance but you have to realise those who voted Leave were conned and used. Nobody likes to admit to having been conned so they carry on trying to convince themselves that their decision was right all along.
    You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

    Easy, just saying stuff as fact for your own narrative.

  43. #13143

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldNick View Post
    All the arguments on both sides can be compelling but can anybody suggest a way out of this mess? A way that will heal the wounds and also stop half the nation being resentful of the result?
    I fail to see anyway this can happen. If we go back cap in hand the nation will be a laughing stock and the EU will treat us with disdain forever and a day. We really need to strike a deal and get it over with or leave without a deal and rebuild,we cant stay in limbo like this as it is destroying the economy.
    We're a laughing stock anyway - the way that Brexit has been dealt with is a ****ing joke, and now we have BoJo as PM. We couldn't be anymore of a laughing stock. At least reneging on article 50 will mean people will actually respect us a bit more as we've now recognised that it is not implementable.

    Or just go with Theresa's deal. I'll say it again, I don't see what the big issue is with it. We have 3 options on the leave side:

    1. Leave with no deal, put up hard border in Ireland, contravene GFA.
    2. Leave with Theresa's deal, stay in backstop until a solution is defined.
    3. Revoke Article 50. Remain in the EU until a solution is defined, then re-trigger article 50.

    What other options are there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used

    Easy, just saying stuff as fact for your own narrative.
    Conned and used for what though?

  45. #13145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unbelievable Jeff View Post
    Conned and used for what though?
    The globalists innit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shurlock View Post
    The globalists innit.
    Shhh...don't give him clues.

  47. #13147

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    As someone who voted to leave, I think there are two ways I would like this whole farce to be sorted out so here goes. Before anyone starts on me, I am not at all clued up on Politics so I just voted with my gut instinct as nobody actually came out with a good reason to leave or stay back in 2016.

    Firstly, and this is purely hypothetical, if we could guarantee the same result, I would like a second referendum where the public could vote again just to see how the remain brigade would then react when the same result happened. There are two schools of thought as to what would happen in a second vote, either lots of people who voted to leave would have been scared off and change their minds and vote to remain but I also wonder whether a lot of people who voted to remain would now say "no this is a democratic country, the people have voted and the result should stand" so would vote to leave as a result.

    I honestly believe this is not like when we were kids playing cricket with our mates over the field in the summer holidays where you wanted to bat first, lost the toss so said "oh I don't like the result of that, best of three"! Then best of five and so on!

    My main feeling is that this is something that is never going to unite the country whatever happens so here is my alternative solution (and I repeat that I voted to leave and nothing has changed my mind in the last three years). I think the other option should be that the referendum is scrapped, we carry on as before but every single one of the 650 MP's as well as that idiot Bercow are sacked as they have clearly proved to everyone that they are incompetent and incapable of doing the job they were voted in to do by their constituents. If anyone says "oh but that would be people losing their jobs, I would retort that if any of us did an appalling job and failed to deliver results expected of us, we would lose our jobs so let's bring the MPs into the real world and make them realise they cannot behave like this.

    We would then need to find 650 new MP's which I admit would be the main problem but at least this might unite the country a little more and appease all of us who voted to leave. If Brexit does not happen, then there should at least be repercussions for the MP's who have all failed this country over the last three years and maybe beyond in some cases.

    I also believe that when there is an Election and these MP's start waffling on in manifestos and on TV about what they are going to bring in or do just to get our vote, if they fail to deliver on what they promise to do, they should be prosecuted as in my view, it is a form of deception (or bribery if you want another word).

    This threat might at least stop idle promises being made where they know full well they are unrealistic and probably have no intention of actually following through with them. See I told you I know nothing about politics as I am only too aware that this will never happen lol.

  48. #13148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used
    In what way was I 'conned and used'? Seriously, how can voting to retain membership of an organisation which I know has been overwhelmingly beneficial to me and my country be described as being 'conned and used'?

    The leave campaign peddled a pack of absolute lies in order to get public support for their ultra-right wing enrichment project, with the promise of 'only positive' benefits of leaving and 'sunlit uplands' having negotiated the easiest deal in history with the EU before triggering Article 50.

    Three years down the line and it's glaringly obvious that the reality of the situation bears no resemblance whatsoever to the fantasy that was sold in the 2016 referendum. Yet so many people who were taken in by it still cannot or will not accept that they were hoodwinked into voting for a turkey.

    "It is easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain.

    Never a truer word said.

  49. #13149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman View Post
    You have to realise that those who voted remain were conned and used
    I voted remain, for the status quo, and therefore knew exactly what I was voting for. I assume you voted leave, based on what hard evidence of benefits ?

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    Jamie's playing a blinder.

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