Puel out

Entertain the fans and they will.

 

As many have pointed out... it's not the league position that people are sick of, its the football implemented by the current manager. It's really not difficult to understand, is it.

Yes because it really isn't that bad. You say you've had an ST for 20 years and this season is your tipping point? Were you sitting through games with your eyes closed for large parts of that 20 years? it has been far, far worse than this in the past....but hey its peoples choice if people feel they have better things to do with their time and money I respect that but it still doesn't make my point any less valid if our fan base are this fickle stadium expansion is a waste of time..

Yes because it really isn't that bad. You say you've had an ST for 20 years and this season is your tipping point? Were you sitting through games with your eyes closed for large parts of that 20 years? it has been far, far worse than this in the past....but hey its peoples choice if people feel they have better things to do with their time and money I respect that but it still doesn't make my point any less valid if our fan base are this fickle stadium expansion is a waste of time..

Its all about winning mate, those that say they would be happy with playing well but losing and being in lowly position in the league are talking s hite as

they would not and they know it..

As you say it really is not as bad as they make out and we have definitely seen much worse

Entertain the fans and they will.

 

As many have pointed out... it's not the league position that people are sick of, its the football implemented by the current manager. It's really not difficult to understand, is it.

Was same at Man United last season. Attendances dropped under Van Gaal and they saw a large spike in season ticket sales once he was given the boot.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-news-fixtures-mourinho-11416747.amp

Its all about winning mate, those that say they would be happy with playing well but losing and being in lowly position in the league are talking s hite as

they would not and they know it..

As you say it really is not as bad as they make out and we have definitely seen much worse

I would say it is a fine line between the 2.

Ultimately, if you play sh!te and don't win, the fans won't be happy, will they.

The better you play the more chance of winning. There's a correlation there

Well the recent posts on this thread show why we will never need expand the stadium one season of mid table and a cup final and people are (allegedly) not going to bother anymore. Just goes to show if you build it they probably won't come.....still at least cup final tickets will be easy to get hold of next season with only three ST holders

Out of interest, what did you think of our European campaign?

Out of interest, what did you think of our European campaign?

Its all about winning mate, those that say they would be happy with playing well but losing and being in lowly position in the league are talking s hite as

they would not and they know it..

As you say it really is not as bad as they make out and we have definitely seen much worse

Scoring that penalty and winning 1-0 would not have made Saturday any better, for me. I also had to sit through the home cup games wagainst Norwich and Sunderland which were both awful to watch and both of which we won 1-0. Winning is definitely not the be-all and end-all. League position is not important to me either. if we're above 17th and below 7th then I couldnt give a toss.

Personally I wonder if this time next year we may be delighted for a top half finish.

Yes because it really isn't that bad. You say you've had an ST for 20 years and this season is your tipping point? Were you sitting through games with your eyes closed for large parts of that 20 years? it has been far, far worse than this in the past....but hey its peoples choice if people feel they have better things to do with their time and money I respect that but it still doesn't make my point any less valid if our fan base are this fickle stadium expansion is a waste of time..

The current season tickets are a damn sight more expensive than they were when we were in the Championship and League One. I would never give mine up but I'm in a position where I can afford to do that so can understand others considering relinquishing their tickets given the cost. It's hard to argue that this season's home performances have been pretty bad. We've not won a Saturday 3pm and have one of the lowest goals scored totals at home. I attend my fair number of away games so have a more objective view of the season but home supporters are understandably frustrated.

Personally I wonder if this time next year we may be delighted for a top half finish.

I don't know, but I know we were throughout the 90s and 00's!

For the record, I am weighing up whether to renew my ST or not.

It's nothing to do with the manager, or the style of football. It is basically because I feel the whole experience is increasingly bland.

- It has become clear that most players, if they are any good, won't be here for more than two seasons. It's hard to build much of an affinity with the squad.

- It is clear that we have plateaued and are really only playing for cup runs or not to go down - but probably without the excitement of a relegation battle. But it's also clear that we struggle with squad depth to maintain deep runs in cups and Europe.

- The Premier League, in general, is bland. Bloated and boring. The managers are quite boring. The players are quite boring. Most world-class players are elsewhere. The pundits are boring. Football coverage is boring. The fans are witless and repetitive. Last season was interesting but it was an exception.

- Europa League, despite our away performances, was great - and was interesting - but reaching that consistently is very difficult.

I wouldn't be against a relegation, to be honest.

For the record, I am weighing up whether to renew my ST or not.

 

It's nothing to do with the manager, or the style of football. It is basically because I feel the whole experience is increasingly bland.

 

- It has become clear that most players, if they are any good, won't be here for more than two seasons. It's hard to build much of an affinity with the squad.

- It is clear that we have plateaued and are really only playing for cup runs or not to go down - but probably without the excitement of a relegation battle. But it's also clear that we struggle with squad depth to maintain deep runs in cups and Europe.

- The Premier League, in general, is bland. Bloated and boring. The managers are quite boring. The players are quite boring. Most world-class players are elsewhere. The pundits are boring. Football coverage is boring. The fans are witless and repetitive. Last season was interesting but it was an exception.

- Europa League, despite our away performances, was great - and was interesting - but reaching that consistently is very difficult.

 

I wouldn't be against a relegation, to be honest.

I feel your dull pain too.

It has become clear that most players, if they are any good, won't be here for more than two seasons. It's hard to build much of an affinity with the squad.

The only alternative is we sign players that the top clubs won't ever want. Is that really going to be good for the club? They'd be worse in quality, but we get keep them for 8 years!

I wouldn't be against a relegation, to be honest.

You want us to be treading water in the Championship for ever, not getting promoted to the Premier League and not getting relegated to League One? How is that better?

Some people strangely look down of being mid table or upper mid table in the Premier League as a bad or boring thing. I'm puzzled as to why fans claim they'd prefer us to be in a perpetual state of treading water in the Championship vs mid table in the world's highest profile league. We have circa 20+ current or recent internationals in the squad (many for decent countries), wouldn't be remotely near that in the Championship. The quality of football on offer would be significantly worse than it is currently.

I feel your dull pain too.

Samsies

There was a decent discussion on the below thread during the summer. Saints fans just fed up supporting a club content on making up the numbers.

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?57108-Losing-Interest/page5#.WQnVJ3PTXqA

The only alternative is we sign players that the top clubs won't ever want. Is that really going to be good for the club? They'd be worse in quality, but we get keep them for 8 years!

 

 

 

You want us to be treading water in the Championship for ever, not getting promoted to the Premier League and not getting relegated to League One? How is that better?

 

Some people strangely look down of being mid table or upper mid table in the Premier League as a bad or boring thing. I'm puzzled as to why fans claim they'd prefer us to be in a perpetual state of treading water in the Championship vs mid table in the world's highest profile league. We have circa 20+ current or recent internationals in the squad (many for decent countries), wouldn't be remotely near that in the Championship. The quality of football on offer would be significantly worse than it is currently.

How do Spurs keep top players?

Tip:, say NO.

Out of interest, what did you think of our European campaign?

I thought it was better than the previous seasons.....

The only alternative is we sign players that the top clubs won't ever want. Is that really going to be good for the club? They'd be worse in quality, but we get keep them for 8 years!

 

 

 

You want us to be treading water in the Championship for ever, not getting promoted to the Premier League and not getting relegated to League One? How is that better?

 

Some people strangely look down of being mid table or upper mid table in the Premier League as a bad or boring thing. I'm puzzled as to why fans claim they'd prefer us to be in a perpetual state of treading water in the Championship vs mid table in the world's highest profile league. We have circa 20+ current or recent internationals in the squad (many for decent countries), wouldn't be remotely near that in the Championship. The quality of football on offer would be significantly worse than it is currently.

I didn't say that.

I'm not surprised you're puzzled though.

Winning is definitely not the be-all and end-all. League position is not important to me either. if we're above 17th and below 7th then I couldnt give a toss.

Perhaps the FA should have a Harlem Globetrotters type side touring round to entertain "fans" like you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Out of interest, what did you think of our European campaign?

I think we all enjoyed the trip to Milan and Prague and beating Milan at St marys ......But ...the manner in which he set up the tactics and team against Beer Sheeva at St.Marys when all we needed was a draw was the defensive sad and inempt piece of management i have ever seen and I will never forgive Puel for throwing away our chance to get in the knockout stages .

I thought it was better than the previous seasons.....

With the squad available, do you think we should have gotten out of the group?

Our EL run never really started. Apart from the two home results, - one excellent against Inter Milan which will live long in my memory, it didn't ever get going. Utter dross served up in Prague and Ber'Sheva - two very poor teams in the grand scheme of things. The Prague showing wasn't any better than the dross against FC Midtjylland the season before.

Kind of like our general season really, bar one or two stand out results it just hasn't got going at all.

Scoring that penalty and winning 1-0 would not have made Saturday any better, for me. I also had to sit through the home cup games wagainst Norwich and Sunderland which were both awful to watch and both of which we won 1-0. Winning is definitely not the be-all and end-all. League position is not important to me either. if we're above 17th and below 7th then I couldnt give a toss.

Understand where you are coming from as the performance would have still have been a big disappointment but for many fans, winning is what matters. Games frequently turn on a moment of luck, a penalty awarded, scored or missed, a shot on goal just inside the post instead of hitting the goal-frame, the ball deflecting off a defender so that a goal is scored instead of the shot being saved. In the end, few of us look back at how a win is achieved but it is true that we do want to enjoy the pride of seeing our team play good football and it seems to me we have gone backwards as far as that is concerned.

Have the papers provided reliable sources for these rumours or are they just spreading fake news? I'd like to see some proper evidence about these senior players who apparently are clearly not happy with him. It wasn't that long ago we had precisely the same rumours about some players and Koeman.

You honestly expect senior players to allow themselves to be quoted in national newspapers while under contract ?

Honestly ?

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

Ship them out then, regardless of weather Puel is good enough or not, if the players are allowed to dictate to the club what a manager can or can't do we are on a slippery slope.

Were you upset when the senior Saints players got rid of Paul Sturrock ?

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

Perhaps the FA should have a Harlem Globetrotters type side touring round to entertain "fans" like you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not at all. I'm happy with real football, the sort that gets played in the lowere divisions, the sort where the players actually put in some effort.

Understand where you are coming from as the performance would have still have been a big disappointment but for many fans, winning is what matters. Games frequently turn on a moment of luck, a penalty awarded, scored or missed, a shot on goal just inside the post instead of hitting the goal-frame, the ball deflecting off a defender so that a goal is scored instead of the shot being saved. In the end, few of us look back at how a win is achieved but it is true that we do want to enjoy the pride of seeing our team play good football and it seems to me we have gone backwards as far as that is concerned.

I'm afraid that for some people winning is everything nowadays. The EFL game against Sunderland was an example. A terrible game lit up by one moment of brilliance from Boufal. The FA Cup home game against Norwich was even worse. Thank goodness we scarped a goal in injury time and avoided another 30 minutes

You often see reactions like this when you have a 'boring' PL season. ''Oh, I'd prefer the lower leagues. at least we'd win some games, it would be fun, it's real football!!'' etc etc.

But just take a few moments and remember these games:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7076446.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7285121.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7978810.stm

Those days were miserable and dull. Struggling in the lower leagues is a lot less fun than struggling in the PL. I honestly wouldn't call any of those games 'real football' and I wasn't happy watching it. The lower leagues are only fun if you're winning, if you're not...it is an absolute dull fest.

I am one of those who renew no matter what. I look at like a financial investment. The quality of the football can go up or down but over the long term I've had value for money. When you buy a ticket for any football match there is never any guarantee of what you are going to get. Every season you start afresh with these days a new team and probably a new manager. I get down when we play badly but nothing beats when we play well.

I'm also not all that fussed about a second rate European competition that no one follows unless their team is in it and which most clubs use to blood youngsters but for which we were expected to play our best team.

They didn't when they weren't in the CL.

They are far far richer than Saints.

They are a far bigger club.

They are in London.

They have the potential to win things.

I think the only relevant point is that they're in the CL. If they weren't in the CL then I can bet you that the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen, Toby etc would all dream of playing in the CL. Levy is not shy to selling, as we've seen in the past with the likes of Berbatov, Modric, Bale, Carrick etc. (the days when they weren't in the CL).

They've bought well, coached them well and have got to a high level already. One season without CL football and new stadium debts to worry about and it may be a different story.

With the squad available, do you think we should have gotten out of the group?

No not really. It was our first ever season in the group stages with a squad with little European experience, that had just lost several of it's better players, replaced those players poorly all with a new manager still trying to find his feet.

Given all that we were 10 minutes away from getting through the group stages. I was gutted at the time but got over it pretty quick. I'm more disappointed in losing the cup final than not progressing in Europe HTBH.

You often see reactions like this when you have a 'boring' PL season. ''Oh, I'd prefer the lower leagues. at least we'd win some games, it would be fun, it's real football!!'' etc etc.

 

But just take a few moments and remember these games:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7076446.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7285121.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7978810.stm

 

Those days were miserable and dull. Struggling in the lower leagues is a lot less fun than struggling in the PL. I honestly wouldn't call any of those games 'real football' and I wasn't happy watching it. The lower leagues are only fun if you're winning, if you're not...it is an absolute dull fest.

Generally football is fun if your team is winning regardless of the league. I guess the one thing the championship has going for it over the PL is it's a bit less predictable and the good teams get promoted so you have a chance again the next season. The PL (last season aside) feels like 6 teams who can win it and 14 teams who are just there to make up numbers.

How do Spurs keep top players?

 

Tip:, say NO.

We will see if that stands when Alli gets offers from europe then shall we?

For the record, I am weighing up whether to renew my ST or not.

 

It's nothing to do with the manager, or the style of football. It is basically because I feel the whole experience is increasingly bland.

 

- It has become clear that most players, if they are any good, won't be here for more than two seasons. It's hard to build much of an affinity with the squad.

- It is clear that we have plateaued and are really only playing for cup runs or not to go down - but probably without the excitement of a relegation battle. But it's also clear that we struggle with squad depth to maintain deep runs in cups and Europe.

- The Premier League, in general, is bland. Bloated and boring. The managers are quite boring. The players are quite boring. Most world-class players are elsewhere. The pundits are boring. Football coverage is boring. The fans are witless and repetitive. Last season was interesting but it was an exception.

- Europa League, despite our away performances, was great - and was interesting - but reaching that consistently is very difficult.

 

I wouldn't be against a relegation, to be honest.

Well said (apart from the relegation part). When you add it all together (cost, time and effort vs reward), its not really been a cost effective season for ST holders. Especially given the number of moved fixtures. Its nearly a 5 hour round trip for me, and with games being played on wednesday nights it becomes a nightmare justifying the cost! At least next year I won't have to do it for extra european nights as well!!

You often see reactions like this when you have a 'boring' PL season. ''Oh, I'd prefer the lower leagues. at least we'd win some games, it would be fun, it's real football!!'' etc etc.

 

But just take a few moments and remember these games:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7076446.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7285121.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/7978810.stm

 

Those days were miserable and dull. Struggling in the lower leagues is a lot less fun than struggling in the PL. I honestly wouldn't call any of those games 'real football' and I wasn't happy watching it. The lower leagues are only fun if you're winning, if you're not...it is an absolute dull fest.

Sheff Weds away was a great day out - the day Kelvin entered saints folklore and truly became part of the club. My only memory of the Hull game was the weather and Pericard featuring and the Wolves game was over before it started. Coming straight after JPS injury time thunderbolt at Watford, it was the ultimate anti-climax.

Can't believe I did every home and away game in the 2008/09 season - still the misery and gallow's humour picked up that season was exquisite and has yet to be matched.

No not really. It was our first ever season in the group stages with a squad with little European experience, that had just lost several of it's better players, replaced those players poorly all with a new manager still trying to find his feet.

 

Given all that we were 10 minutes away from getting through the group stages. I was gutted at the time but got over it pretty quick. I'm more disappointed in losing the cup final than not progressing in Europe HTBH.

How many of our players had played in Europe before? We had one champions league winner, at least three who had previously played in the champions league, two European champions, a number would have played in the EL with previous clubs and most were internationals. European experience wasn't an issue and even if it was, wasn't that why we brought in a manager with Euro experience?

How many of our players had played in Europe before? We had one champions league winner, at least three who had previously played in the champions league, two European champions, a number would have played in the EL with previous clubs and most were internationals. European experience wasn't an issue and even if it was, wasn't that why we brought in a manager with Euro experience?

Every single one of the teams in our group has had more experience playing in Europe in recent years than saints Sparta have had European football 16 times in the last 20 seasons even Hapoel have played more European football than us. We were the least experienced European side in the group the idea some had that we were just going to cruise through the group stages was odd, eve more so when you consider we got knocked out of Europe with a better team by midgetland the season before, and not one I held which is probably why I got over it quicker than some on here have.

Yes because it really isn't that bad. You say you've had an ST for 20 years and this season is your tipping point? Were you sitting through games with your eyes closed for large parts of that 20 years? it has been far, far worse than this in the past....but hey its peoples choice if people feel they have better things to do with their time and money I respect that but it still doesn't make my point any less valid if our fan base are this fickle stadium expansion is a waste of time..

Interesting points.

The expansion issue is an important one. I only come along casually. I don't want a season ticket as would miss too many games. The important thing here though is games are often sold out or close to it so when I could go I don't because I probably won't get a ticket ....

If people knew they could get in more would turn up and more would take the trouble to bother to try and buy tickets....

Of course if you expand the ground you have less to spend on players so the standard drops and less people go to watch... Then you don't need the space... You need a damn good manager to mitigate the the decrease in investment on the pitch - not too sure Wenger's best mate is quite up to it.......

Stick or twist ????

How do Spurs keep top players?

 

Tip:, say NO.

Having Champions League football to offer probably helped

Same reason why Vardy and Mahrez stayed at Leicester.

Leicester's summer will be interesting to look at this season.

Every single one of the teams in our group has had more experience playing in Europe in recent years than saints Sparta have had European football 16 times in the last 20 seasons even Hapoel have played more European football than us. We were the least experienced European side in the group the idea some had that we were just going to cruise through the group stages was odd, eve more so when you consider we got knocked out of Europe with a better team by midgetland the season before, and not one I held which is probably why I got over it quicker than some on here have.

To be fair I don't really see why having no European experience is an excuse for our early exit, we were still the best team in our group from by far the best domestic lead. Plus of course there's the fact that Leicester managed to reach the Quarter Finals of the CL with less European experience than us.

Of course we should have got out of the Europa Group.

This was evidenced by the fact that:

- we outplayed Inter twice;

- beat Prague comfortably at home;

- had the ball for pretty much the whole 90 minutes in the away match against Prague and they were absolutely over the moon with the result, given they had loads of players missing.

If we'd scored one goal in any of our away matches we would have gone through. We didn't because of poor execution at key moments by players - the story of our season. We played badly against Beer Sheva, on the whole, but evidently we have a stronger squad than any of those teams and the players let us down badly.

We should have been ahead of Prague and HBS for the same reason we accept defeats to Man C and Chelsea.

As our squad is worth 250+ million and theres is worth 10-20m

We should have been ahead of Prague and HBS for the same reason we accept defeats to Man C and Chelsea.

 

As our squad is worth 250+ million and theres is worth 10-20m

do you remember when some on here celebrated a home 0-0 against liverpool when we never even had a shot on target. lol

Of course we should have got out of the Europa Group.

 

This was evidenced by the fact that:

 

- we outplayed Inter twice;

- beat Prague comfortably at home;

- had the ball for pretty much the whole 90 minutes in the away match against Prague and they were absolutely over the moon with the result, given they had loads of players missing.

 

If we'd scored one goal in any of our away matches we would have gone through. We didn't because of poor execution at key moments by players - the story of our season. We played badly against Beer Sheva, on the whole, but evidently we have a stronger squad than any of those teams and the players let us down badly.

Had VvD not missed 2 absolute sitters & JRod missed countless chances we'd have qualified easily. Still can't blame VvD on here, so it must have been Puels fault he missed them

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course we should have got out of the Europa Group.

 

This was evidenced by the fact that:

 

- we outplayed Inter twice;

- beat Prague comfortably at home;

- had the ball for pretty much the whole 90 minutes in the away match against Prague and they were absolutely over the moon with the result, given they had loads of players missing.

 

If we'd scored one goal in any of our away matches we would have gone through. We didn't because of poor execution at key moments by players - the story of our season. We played badly against Beer Sheva, on the whole, but evidently we have a stronger squad than any of those teams and the players let us down badly.

We were **** in Prague.

We were **** in Prague.

Yes, the point is that we shouldn't have been. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing or not; odd comment.

Despite us being ****, Prague offered nothing and let us have the ball for most of the match. We had 70% possession and only managed three shots on target. They didn't win a corner all match. They were over the moon with the result.

The match was about League One standard and Prague were crap over both legs. If we'd played to 70% of our maximum we would have beaten them comfortably but we were crap.

The point is, with our squad, we should have got out of that group. Unless you think our group of players is worse than Prague's or Beer Sheva's. You think either of them would be 9th in the Premier League after 34 matches?

Yes, the point is that we shouldn't have been.

 

The match was about League One standard and Prague were crap over both legs.

 

We should have beaten them but every time we got near their box we made a mess of a pass or Shane Long was offside.

 

You reckon Prague, Beer Sheva and Inter have better squads than us?

We probably could've won every one of our group games.

We probably could've won every one of our group games.

Exactly. We clearly had better players, in general, than our opponents. Which is why we clearly should have made it out of the group and it's nonsense to say otherwise.

The Europa League campaign was a failure in what was a very poor group. No away goals FFS.

I think the only relevant point is that they're in the CL. If they weren't in the CL then I can bet you that the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen, Toby etc would all dream of playing in the CL. Levy is not shy to selling, as we've seen in the past with the likes of Berbatov, Modric, Bale, Carrick etc. (the days when they weren't in the CL).

 

They've bought well, coached them well and have got to a high level already. One season without CL football and new stadium debts to worry about and it may be a different story.

Whilst it is true that Champions League is a carrot we can't offer, they're a much bigger club than Saints. They have a significant fan base and generate a lot of commercial income (£60m vs. our £10m) - as a consequence they can offer big salaries but still manage their wages to turnover down (52% vs our 70%). I think it'll be interesting if them being homed in Wembley next year will hit their performances though as teams will undoubtedly raise their game.

Fundamentally we are a small club with a smaller local and smaller global fan base than the 'big boys'. I think a good measure of sizeis to look at the number of pages / posts on a match post as an example - sites like Kumb.com and various Spurs ones, regularly a multiple (obviously there are other reasons and support is split across multiple sites but it is an indication)

Only prolonged success will change that and even then we are limited by geography a bit.

Yes, the point is that we shouldn't have been. I'm not sure if you are disagreeing or not; odd comment.

 

Despite us being ****, Prague offered nothing and let us have the ball for most of the match. We had 70% possession and only managed three shots on target. They didn't win a corner all match. They were over the moon with the result.

 

The match was about League One standard and Prague were crap over both legs. If we'd played to 70% of our maximum we would have beaten them comfortably but we were crap.

 

The point is, with our squad, we should have got out of that group. Unless you think our group of players is worse than Prague's or Beer Sheva's. You think either of them would be 9th in the Premier League after 34 matches?

Now you're unwittingly or wilfully conflating issues: your claim isnt that we should have gone through based on the superiority of our squad; its that based on performances, we had plenty of opportunities to win games (Prague being a case in point) and thus qualify.

So what if we had 70% possession, we never looked like scoring despite chasing the game for over 80 mins. Prague got an early goal, they didn't need to press or take risks, so the fact they managed 3 shots on target had as much to do with the game situation and is largely irrelevant.

This is not an anti-possession argument. There are plenty of times this season where we've dominated possession and been desperately unlucky (Hull (a), Swansea (a), Everton (a), Leicester (a) etc). But Prague is not an example -and just makes those defending it look like the types who'd insist the Emperor was wearing clothes (fwiw the Prague supporters were over the moon because by beating us, they qualified as group winners, not because they had got away with daylight robbery).

You remind me of a less ludicrous The9 who believes to this day that we were a Yoshida header and post away from qualifying and vindicating everything Puel had done. Horses**t. Over a six game campaign, we should have never been in a position where we reliant on such margins. There was nothing unlucky about our elimination.