saints_is_the_south Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 So what is the debt situation? As i understand it Markus Liebherr has not bought SLH but its assets. This means SFC & i assume the training ground & SMS? Will we continue paying the mortgage on the stadium or has that it been bought meanning we no longer own any money on it? Has the overdraft with Barclays now been cleared? Would be interesting to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I've read a number of articles that state the Liebherr family don't like doing their business with any debt what so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Debt is cleared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 8 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Debt is cleared. All of it? Stadium too? So we don't owe a penny in mortgage repayments on the stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Sum of Debt = zero, nada, zilch, nothing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I've read a number of articles that state the Liebherr family don't like doing their business with any debt what so ever. that's what I heard too. Apparently they built the company from scratch to a turnover of 8 billion euros without ever taking on any debt. That is impressive. Mightily relieving to be debt free.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Was just wondering about the stadium myself. Would be awesome if all the debts on that are paid off too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Of course it's quite possible that we never find out any of this stuff now. A private company can be much more secretive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exit2 Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 ML now owns everything. No debt, no overdraft. Thats £2.5m a year saved on mortgage repayments and interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 ML now owns everything. No debt, no overdraft. Thats £2.5m a year saved on mortgage repayments and interest! That's right. Debt free. No Lowe. No plc. No noose around our necks. Time to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldsaint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 ML now owns everything. No debt, no overdraft. Thats £2.5m a year saved on mortgage repayments and interest! I bet Norwich Union are ****-a-hoop with B*rcl*ys if you're right. Didn't we owe something like £24M on the mortgage alone and ML paid something like £12.5M for everything? So I would guess that NU got something like £8M to £10M? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I bet Norwich Union are ****-a-hoop with B*rcl*ys if you're right. Didn't we owe something like £24M on the mortgage alone and ML paid something like £12.5M for everything? So I would guess that NU got something like £8M to £10M? Don't think they lost that much, was a £30m takeover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 8 July, 2009 Author Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Don't think they lost that much, was a £30m takeover. £13m. It was posted on here last night that South Today said last night it was a £30m takeover but i later found out that whoever posted that on here had misheard them & the amount is nearer £13m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 £13m. It was posted on here last night that South Today said last night it was a £30m takeover but i later found out that whoever posted that on here had misheard them & the amount is nearer £13m. Watched it aswell, definately thought they said 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 That's right. Debt free. No Lowe. No plc. No noose around our necks. Time to rebuild. I'm not going to believe that unless someone official actually comes out and says it, there is absolutely no reason that the buyer couldn't just take over the mortgage payments on the ground and carry on as before. If they have paid the reported 12-15 million then Norwich Union have taken a massive loss on the stadium which seems highly unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Why would Aviva write that much off when theres a billionaire owner who can pay them back at full price? It might happen but it makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Dont wory toopmuch about Norwich Union - the fact that they take a loss is possible because you ahve tio add the interest they have received over time as well... so they arenot too much out of pocket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 All of it? Stadium too? So we don't owe a penny in mortgage repayments on the stadium? Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Why would Aviva write that much off when theres a billionaire owner who can pay them back at full price? It might happen but it makes no sense to me. Because that billionaire is only offering to pay them that much. It's a case of "take that and get something or reject it and possibly get nothing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Why would Aviva write that much off when theres a billionaire owner who can pay them back at full price? It might happen but it makes no sense to me. Because he hasn't offered to, that's why! If they didn't accept his (or a similar) offer, they would have been left with nothing. Simple as.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 The stadium (& other) debt has been draging this club down for years and it's a massive relief to be rid of it - let's hope we never fall into that trap again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. Sorry FF, thats rubbish. The club has been been owned by the shareholders in all recent history. Whether those shares are publicly traded or held privately makes no difference. The fans will have exactly the same influence we have always had, no more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. Yeah because all the fans demonstrations against Lowe & Co were acknowledged and acted upon weren't they! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 The stadium (& other) debt has been draging this club down for years and it's a massive relief to be rid of it - let's hope we never fall into that trap again . Now we've got that debt cleared let's get the capacity up to 50k with another mortgage... Whoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 £13m. It was posted on here last night that South Today said last night it was a £30m takeover but i later found out that whoever posted that on here had misheard them & the amount is nearer £13m. £13m was what I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. But, as you allude to at the start of your second paragraph Duncan, SFC is ultimately answerable to the fans. I'm sure a private owner would listen to the fans if they didn't turn up to sample their wares. Arguably, perhaps even more so now it is a privately run business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Now we've got that debt cleared let's get the capacity up to 50k with another mortgage... Whoot! This guy could pay cash. Could get the cranes and diggers at mates rates as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Why would Aviva write that much off when theres a billionaire owner who can pay them back at full price? It might happen but it makes no sense to me. To flip that around... Why should a new owner pay when they are unable to sell to anybody else? I'd be amazed if £13m (or whatever the figure is) doesn't buy everything, including the stadium leaving all the debt behind. The stadium is not worth anything to Aviva. If they were to have refused the deall, what do you think they would have been able to do as an alternative? Yes it's a big hit for them to take but they don't really have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Because he hasn't offered to, that's why! If they didn't accept his (or a similar) offer, they would have been left with nothing. Simple as.... Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draino76 Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I wonder how many other League 1 clubs would swap our situation for theirs? Minus 10, but totally debt free with a multi billionaire owner? I can't see many I'd swap with right now, even in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exit2 Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 the basics of it is that ML has offered "x" amount in the pound for the debt. It could be 50p so basically he cleared all the debt for 50%. The creditors ie Aviva and Barclays would have accepted that through the admin team. So of the £24m owned on the stadium, ML has paid £12m. Good business if you ask me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Sum of Debt = zero, nada, zilch, nothing!! But how do we get our CVA if we are still owing money to creditors? Our debt was more than he paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Did we owe any money to the inland revenue? Don't the league place further harsh penalties if you don't pay them enough money and come out with a CVA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. Come on Duncan, this is paranoid nonsense. If we dont like what he does, we vote with our feet and dont go. However, I dont expect this to happen. He sounds committed to the clubs future. Do you want to go back to a plc structure with a chancer like Lowe in charge ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Now we've got that debt cleared let's get the capacity up to 50k with another mortgage... Whoot! It wouldn't be bad idea to increase the capacity to around 40,000 so that we can outbid Pompey for the World Cup venue.. That is do-able and Pompey is the club at risk of going under now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Did we owe any money to the inland revenue? Don't the league place further harsh penalties if you don't pay them enough money and come out with a CVA? Liebherr didn't buy a company that was in Administration so it's no concern of his or the club's....surely...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Did we owe any money to the inland revenue? Don't the league place further harsh penalties if you don't pay them enough money and come out with a CVA? Echo saying no more points deductions http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4481773.No_more_points_deductions_for_Saints/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Yeah because all the fans demonstrations against Lowe & Co were acknowledged and acted upon weren't they! If we fans have no say, what is the point of the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 But how do we get our CVA if we are still owing money to creditors? Our debt was more than he paid. We never needed one. That was nonsense supposedly ITK people posted on here when they invented the possibility that pinnacle were fighting a further points deduction. The only possible 'debt' now may be a promise to pay the creditors less now and more later. Pinnacle's bid was repoertedly relatively low to begin with (it became obvious why!) but with promises of further installments if/when we got promoted. As far as I know no one has spelt out the details of Herr Liebherr's deal, but at one stage Fry implied that whoever took over would have to take the form of contracts prepared for pinnacle because there wasn't time to re-cast them. So who knows if Markus has paid all the £12.5 million (?) upfront or is paying in installments? Either way it will have been agreed with the creditors and we will no longer have mortgage or overdraft interest payments to cover. K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rover Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. Hopefully we've exchanged an autocratic tyrant for a benevolent billionaire and a bright new future. Shouldn't take too long to get used to it. The club still has shares whether or not they're traded publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Surely if we weren't gonna come out with a CVA then he would not have gone ahead. Plus the FL admitted after the pinnacle fiasco that no further implications would occur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. Good post. Agree 100%. As I mentioned elsewhere we will need to seriously examine our fan-based leadership and structures to support the new owners but also to counter the dangers of one owner. Perhaps a new role for the Saints Trust if it can find suitable leadership. I have campaigned for so long for this moment that it makes me want to shout from my roof today... but I also acknowledge the (minor) dangers. You're right. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 But how do we get our CVA if we are still owing money to creditors? Our debt was more than he paid. I'm not sure we actually ever needed one, but you'd still get one in this situation. In fact, that's what a CVA is. An agreement by 75% of the people you owe money (by value) to to accept less than you owe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Hate to say this but "we" will never owe anything nor will the club every "owe" us anything. Our club is now privately owned for the first time in our 124 year old history. There is no debt, no morgage and we have no rights. The new owner can do whatever he likes. Not saying this is a bad thing but we are going to have to get used to the fact that SFC is not answerable to the fans at all. However it would be a silly man for him to want to alienate the fans. It is going to take a long time to get used to being in private hands. Even going back before the first World War there were demonstrations by the fans against the directors at the way the club was run, and they had to listen, but not anymore. The club was privatley owned, all be it with several shareholders up until Rupes road into town with the reverse takeover making it a public company. The only difference between now and pre 1997 (?) is there is one owner now compared to several back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I'm not sure we actually ever needed one, but you'd still get one in this situation. In fact, that's what a CVA is. An agreement by 75% of the people you owe money (by value) to to accept less than you owe them. I'm not Einstein at math, so 13 million is more than 75% of 40 million then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 I'm not Einstein at math, so 13 million is more than 75% of 40 million then? Think you missed the point. Basically, 75% that were owed, have to agree in writing that they will not get everything back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Debt is cleared. Sum of Debt = zero, nada, zilch, nothing!! Now that is superb news. I hope that Aviva and the small businesses got a good pay off and that Barclays got the square root of eff all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 If we fans have no say, what is the point of the forum? Well, as it's a football club forum, we always have the option of discussing the players, the manager, the football; that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Now that is superb news. I hope that Aviva and the small businesses got a good pay off and that Barclays got the square root of eff all! Although Barclays did rather remove Lowe and his plc for good. Ironic they may get nothing for one of the most important decisions in Saints history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 July, 2009 Share Posted 8 July, 2009 Well, as it's a football club forum, we always have the option of discussing the players, the manager, the football; that sort of thing. Do we have to? At the moment that's the worst bit of the Club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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