Wotton

[Chez]

I doubt you will find anyone on here or indeed in SMS that has slated Wotton as much as me - although I admit I did praise his `man posessed' performance at Bristol City last year, so his selection yesterday had me moaning and groaning as you'd expect.

 

His overall performance yesterday was pretty standard fair, lots of shouting, firery studs up tackling, hoofing when he has time, bringing it down when he should be hoofing, struggling to cover the ground and sitting very very deep. But it is perhaps this last point that helped us yesterday. Yes Ok the opposition were not nearly as good as Bristol Rovers, but I thought the difference between the two games (apart from us tiring on tuesday) was the understanding of the midfield three and the freedom this allowed.

 

With Morgan, Melliss and Hammond (who all played well IMO) there seemed to be a kind of rotation system going on whereby if one went forward the other two would cover. At times two went forward and the third would cover, on the odd occasion, and crucially when they hit us on the break, all three bombed forward and we were left stretched.

 

The Wotton selection changed this to a one stays back, two bomb on allowing Mellis to make more runs beyond Lambert and Hammond the freedom to push on as well. I think what it also did was to make it much clearer in the minds of those two players what their role was.

 

Looking forward to Southend I'm slightly torn. With Wotton we get a man we know won't leave his post and as I have said that may help the other two, but at the same time we lose a great deal of quality on the ball compared to Morgan. If Morgan comes back in can he hold this deep position and will Hammond and Mellis be confident to push forward again? Interesting cundumdrm for AP is Morgan is fit. Does anyone else see it that way?

[Thedelldays]

it is a tough one...

 

gillingham were well under strength but then, you can only beat what is in front of you..

 

in the week...morgan was fantastic and he and hammond ran the middle of the park....

 

morgan does like to pick the ball of the centre backs and spread the play..but he is not really a tackler..

 

tough one

[St. Jason]

I doubt you will find anyone on here or indeed in SMS that has slated Wotton as much as me - although I admit I did praise his `man posessed' performance at Bristol City last year, so his selection yesterday had me moaning and groaning as you'd expect.

 

His overall performance yesterday was pretty standard fair, lots of shouting, firery studs up tackling, hoofing when he has time, bringing it down when he should be hoofing, struggling to cover the ground and sitting very very deep. But it is perhaps this last point that helped us yesterday. Yes Ok the opposition were not nearly as good as Bristol Rovers, but I thought the difference between the two games (apart from us tiring on tuesday) was the understanding of the midfield three and the freedom this allowed.

 

With Morgan, Melliss and Hammond (who all played well IMO) there seemed to be a kind of rotation system going on whereby if one went forward the other two would cover. At times two went forward and the third would cover, on the odd occasion, and crucially when they hit us on the break, all three bombed forward and we were left stretched.

 

The Wotton selection changed this to a one stays back, two bomb on allowing Mellis to make more runs beyond Lambert and Hammond the freedom to push on as well. I think what it also did was to make it much clearer in the minds of those two players what their role was.

 

Looking forward to Southend I'm slightly torn. With Wotton we get a man we know won't leave his post and as I have said that may help the other two, but at the same time we lose a great deal of quality on the ball compared to Morgan. If Morgan comes back in can he hold this deep position and will Hammond and Mellis be confident to push forward again? Interesting cundumdrm for AP is Morgan is fit. Does anyone else see it that way?

 

Agree about Wotton having a good game but for me the difference today was Lambert. Today he wanted it, he was hard, strong, aggressive and determind, on Tuesday, to me, he looked scared to win!!

[Chez]

Morgan's tackling has improved though and he has put himself about a lot more. The other thing is that he covers the ground a lot quicker than Wotton. The thing for me is that Morgan has it in him to get forward but if we are going to play this two wingers and two midfielders pushing on we need someone playing the Makalele-won't-cross-the-half-way-line-role and that is a tough ask for a player of Morgans class. Maybe Morgan is the direct replacement for Hammond? Nice problem.

[saints_is_the_south]

I doubt you will find anyone on here or indeed in SMS that has slated Wotton as much as me

 

I can't be very far behind you on that!

 

Wotton made a difference in midfield yesterday, his holding role allowed Mellis & Hammond to get forward without having to worry too much about getting back as they knew Wotton would be there to break up their play.

 

I thought on Tuesday that Hammond & Morgan are too similar to play together, both want to get hold of the ball & pass it around but neither are that great at defensive duties & thats where Wotton becomes more effective in the formation played yesterday.

 

Finally, a word for Mellis who was gash against Bristol Rovers but a lot lot better yesterday, unlucky not to score too.

[Chez]

Agree about Wotton having a good game but for me the difference today was Lambert. Today he wanted it, he was hard, strong, aggressive and determind, on Tuesday, to me, he looked scared to win!!

 

He had a brilliant game, 10 out of 10 for me, and showed what a class act he is. But I thought the difference in Lambert was that he played ten yards further forward and didn't drop into the hole as much meaning we actually had someone at the front of the xmas tree.

[Chez]

I can't be very far behind you on that!

 

Wotton made a difference in midfield yesterday, his holding role allowed Mellis & Hammond to get forward without having to worry too much about getting back as they knew Wotton would be there to break up their play.

 

you put it much better than I did.

[Chez]

 

Finally, a word for Mellis who was gash against Bristol Rovers but a lot lot better yesterday, unlucky not to score too.

 

I thought Mellis was OK against Rovers myself doing a shed load of running, especially to close down the opposition - when he tired that was when we went under the cosh. but either way Pardew has finally picked him in the position he plays. If, as I did, you looked at the youtube material of him, he played all the time in the Lampard bombing on role down the middle whilst at Chelsea and why we then stuck him out wide where he looked lost I will never know. He looks at home there and his athletism will be a great asset and will work opposing defences hard at the very least.

 

My one concern is that we have found a great formation to accomodate Lallana, Waigo and Mellis, but this will leave us exposed down the wings where we have two slow fullbacks. Gillingham were terrible out wide so it was easy, but we saw on Tuesday what a decent pacet wideman could do - we had to change the formation to try and stop it.

[View From The Top]

Wotton was excellent in the holding role yesterday, it gave the others licence to express themselves and it showed.

 

The best team isn't always made up of the best players.

[Chez]

Wotton was excellent in the holding role yesterday, it gave the others licence to express themselves and it showed.

 

The best team isn't always made up of the best players.

agreed, but Wotton is bloody awful though.

[Fan The Flames]

Wotton is a good solid professional and in the right set up will do a job. In a failing team it's only the really good thst shine, so it was no surprise people like Wotton didn't stand out last season, however as the team progresses there could be a place for him if he brings some balance into the side.

[up and away]

I doubt you will find anyone on here or indeed in SMS that has slated Wotton as much as me - although I admit I did praise his `man posessed' performance at Bristol City last year, so his selection yesterday had me moaning and groaning as you'd expect.

 

His overall performance yesterday was pretty standard fair, lots of shouting, firery studs up tackling, hoofing when he has time, bringing it down when he should be hoofing, struggling to cover the ground and sitting very very deep. But it is perhaps this last point that helped us yesterday. Yes Ok the opposition were not nearly as good as Bristol Rovers, but I thought the difference between the two games (apart from us tiring on tuesday) was the understanding of the midfield three and the freedom this allowed.

 

With Morgan, Melliss and Hammond (who all played well IMO) there seemed to be a kind of rotation system going on whereby if one went forward the other two would cover. At times two went forward and the third would cover, on the odd occasion, and crucially when they hit us on the break, all three bombed forward and we were left stretched.

 

The Wotton selection changed this to a one stays back, two bomb on allowing Mellis to make more runs beyond Lambert and Hammond the freedom to push on as well. I think what it also did was to make it much clearer in the minds of those two players what their role was.

 

Looking forward to Southend I'm slightly torn. With Wotton we get a man we know won't leave his post and as I have said that may help the other two, but at the same time we lose a great deal of quality on the ball compared to Morgan. If Morgan comes back in can he hold this deep position and will Hammond and Mellis be confident to push forward again? Interesting cundumdrm for AP is Morgan is fit. Does anyone else see it that way?

 

Like DellDays has said, I find this a really tough one to call. Play Wooton in that position against a team like Gillingham and he looked very comfortable. Praise here goes to Pardew for player selection, tactics and formation.

 

What I cannot tell as yet is if one of the other midfielders was slightly off, would Wooton step up and level that out? Equally if it was not Gillingham and it was not this formation, what would be the outcome then? Don't want to be negative towards Wotton because praise is deserved but we had exactly the same problem with Wright, when he was exposed to pace, the performances disappeared.

[Saint_clark]

Anyone else get really f*cked off with that stupid little clippy lofted pass he always tries, which NEVER results in a chance on goal?

[70's Mike]

not a popular opinion but i believe we are more likely to get out of this division with a Wotton than a Morgan.

with lallana and mellis we need discipline from the others, on tuesday in the second half other than Hammon the others disappeared

[Dangerous Albert]

it is a tough one...

 

 

 

in the week...morgan was fantastic and he and hammond ran the middle of the park....

[Dangerous Albert]

Christ...that wasn't my impression...thought they were lightweight at best...

[alpine_saint]

Wotton was excellent in the holding role yesterday, it gave the others licence to express themselves and it showed.

 

The best team isn't always made up of the best players.

 

Agreed - play Wotton next game

[RedAndWhite91]

I think I'd rather play Morgan than Wotton. Granted, he didn't have an awful game but every time he got the ball he seemed, I dunno, clumsy. He nearly lost it in VERY dodgy position several times and the lofted pass that was mentioned earlier is not too effective. However his involvement yesterday did allow Mellis to get forward more, but I have no doubt Morgan could play that holding role instead and I do rate Morgan more. As long as Hammond is there I can't really complain to be honest.

[Ash]

Play 4-3-3. Wotton with Schneiderlin and Hammond in the middle, with Waigo and Lallana playing around Lambert up front and giving us width too.

 

Also, Lloyd James can play a similar role to Wotton in the middle, he did so against Charlton the other week and made a pretty decent job of it.

[Vershinin]

What about Gillett?

[Chez]

Play 4-3-3. Wotton with Schneiderlin and Hammond in the middle, with Waigo and Lallana playing around Lambert up front and giving us width too.

 

Also, Lloyd James can play a similar role to Wotton in the middle, he did so against Charlton the other week and made a pretty decent job of it.

 

I think you underestimate the energy and pace Mellis has offerd us over the last two games. He has made forward runs, many unseen that have pushed the oposiiton back, but just as important has been the speed in which he has close oponents down. I'm extremely uncouraged by those two showings and if he can keep that level of energy and performance up I don't see how he can be dropped.

 

James is cover ad is Gillett. Regarding Gillett AP seems to want to play him at the head of the diamond, perhaps he is concerned about his close control, which can be hit and miss.

[Joesaint]

not a popular opinion but i believe we are more likely to get out of this division with a Wotton than a Morgan.

with lallana and mellis we need discipline from the others, on tuesday in the second half other than Hammon the others disappeared

 

I understand what you are saying, I think long ball from Wotton may work somtimes as Lambert is a great holding player winning alot of 50/50's.

 

I'm glad I don't make the decision but I do think it would be good to rotate them as spider is great and would really help if we went up.

 

Have fun AP

 

COYR

[rooney]

Paul Wotton's best game for us this season by far and agree with other posts that he helped to bring balance to the side yesterday.

[Alanh]

When Morgan is fit again he should be brought back in at the expense of Wotton as he is much better on the ball. Play him and Mellis in the middle and give the Wotton role to Hammond, who is disciplined enough to protect the back four and is also more mobile than Wotton and so can offer more support to the rest of midfield.

 

Agree it was Wotton's best game for a long time, but in the long term he is limited compared to the likes of Schneiderlin and against a quicker attack he will be exposed.

[alpine_saint]

I would make Schneiderlin win his place back, if I were AP, rather than give it as an automatic right.

[St Will]

I would make Schneiderlin win his place back, if I were AP, rather than give it as an automatic right.

 

I agree....although it's a funny one. First half, I thought Wotton wasn't good at all, and after that half, I would have said '"put Schneiderlin straight back in", but he was much better in the second half.

 

I do like Schneiderlin though...very good when he's on it

Edited 4 October, 2009 by St Will

[Forester]

From some one who watches a lot of away games, I think Morgan should really only be selected for home matches. He is usually a total passenger away from home, lacking the time on the ball and commitment level necessary - Wotton by contrast gets physically involved and Hartlepool away in November........

 

I should emphasise I am a big fan of Morgan's - he was awesome against Rovers - but at this stage of his career and in this division we should pick his games

[Ash]

I think you underestimate the energy and pace Mellis has offerd us over the last two games. He has made forward runs, many unseen that have pushed the oposiiton back, but just as important has been the speed in which he has close oponents down. I'm extremely uncouraged by those two showings and if he can keep that level of energy and performance up I don't see how he can be dropped.

I rate him too but completely forgot about him. Stick him in as one of the three? That would mean dropping Hammond, Schneiderlin or Wotton though. Tis a tricky one.

I really rate Lloyd James and Simon Gillet too, we might be lacking strength on the flanks, but in the middle I think the squad is now really strong.

[latter day saint]

isn't Mellis away for a while playing for England U19s? will be interesting to see if AP stays with this formation if so.

[The Godfather]

isn't Mellis away for a while playing for England U19s? will be interesting to see if AP stays with this formation if so.

 

Mellis is in the the squad for 9-14th October with englandu19s.

[saintbletch]

Agree with the OP and share the same "oh no not Wotton" attitude. But he made a difference yesterday. We lined up a clear 4-1-4-1 when not in possession which then turned into a 4-1-3-2 or 4-1-2-3 in attack, but Wotton never left his position in front of the back 4. I'm a little embarrassed to be advocating such apparent negative tactics at home but if it gives us the ability to move more players forward more quickly then I guess I'd like to see Wotton given an extended run in that role.

 

Can't believe I said that 'out loud'.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I think we need to start with the creative players to try and unlock defences and then bring on the likes of Wotton and Thomas when fit to shore up the defence and midfield to actually hold a lead and hit them with pace on the break (Waigo?)

 

We do need more pace in defence/on the wings and up front

[david in sweden]

I doubt you will find anyone on here or indeed in SMS that has slated Wotton as much as me - although I admit I did praise his `man posessed' performance at Bristol City last year, so his selection yesterday had me moaning and groaning as you'd expect.

 

His overall performance yesterday was pretty standard fair, lots of shouting, firery studs up tackling, hoofing when he has time, bringing it down when he should be hoofing, struggling to cover the ground and sitting very very deep. But it is perhaps this last point that helped us yesterday. Yes Ok the opposition were not nearly as good as Bristol Rovers, but I thought the difference between the two games (apart from us tiring on tuesday) was the understanding of the midfield three and the freedom this allowed.

 

With Morgan, Melliss and Hammond (who all played well IMO) there seemed to be a kind of rotation system going on whereby if one went forward the other two would cover. At times two went forward and the third would cover, on the odd occasion, and crucially when they hit us on the break, all three bombed forward and we were left stretched.

 

The Wotton selection changed this to a one stays back, two bomb on allowing Mellis to make more runs beyond Lambert and Hammond the freedom to push on as well. I think what it also did was to make it much clearer in the minds of those two players what their role was.

 

Looking forward to Southend I'm slightly torn. With Wotton we get a man we know won't leave his post and as I have said that may help the other two, but at the same time we lose a great deal of quality on the ball compared to Morgan. If Morgan comes back in can he hold this deep position and will Hammond and Mellis be confident to push forward again? Interesting cundumdrm for AP is Morgan is fit. Does anyone else see it that way?

 

 

Some players tend to get into that "utility " slot, (as a fill-in when the usual player is injured,) I feel it is somewhat unfair on any player who willingingly plays where the manager puts him - and turns in a mediochre performances only to get stick from fans afterwards.

Very few players can " play anywhere" and do it well; Jimmy Gabriel, David Peach, Nick Holmes and Chris Marsden are a few names who come to mind, but most players are best in one role.

 

A recent thread highlighted two (Stuart Gray) signings; Rory Delap and Anders Svensson who both fell into the " utility " category when succesive managers had a shirt to fill, and they were played out of their " best positions ". (Both players have enjoyed considerable success since they left the club).

Playing (everyone) in their best position is a managers dream-scenario but becomes a nightmare for the " oddman out ", when he's handed the spare shirt and told to play elsewhere. If Wotton can play consistantly well in that postion - he's worth his place. His long history with Plymouth proves that he has the experience at this lower level and surely in the " type " of Gillingham games - he'd be an asset in midfield. When we played the more "skilful sides" ..(apologies for use of that word in L1)...then Schneiderlin may be a better bet.

 

I go along with using specific players against specific opposition teams as a " short term " solution. Older fans recall a much under-used 1960's defender named Tony Byrne, who " man-marked" George Best probably better than anyone else ever did, but rarely had a regular role in a Saints shirt.

 

Wotton may be the Huxford/Walker/Case type of defender we need right now, especially as " skill " seem to be at a premium in L1.

[up and away]

not a popular opinion but i believe we are more likely to get out of this division with a Wotton than a Morgan.

with lallana and mellis we need discipline from the others, on tuesday in the second half other than Hammon the others disappeared

 

I fully agree with that, the only issue is Wooton. He has and will cost us again, of that I have little doubt. We need that type of player, just not this one. I would have thought Schneiderlin could do an even better job there given the discipline, but seeing is believing.

 

It would not surprise me that Wooton could do a good job in several games but he will get found out if he has to come out of his hole or put under pressure by a decent forward.

 

I'll leave this one to Pardew and watch with interest.

[Saint Since '51]

Wotton may be the Huxford/Walker/Case type of defender we need right now, especially as " skill " seem to be at a premium in L1.

 

Huxford!!

 

Blimey, how old ARE you?

[SFC Forever]

What about Gillett?

 

 

Reading thru this thread I was thinking exactly the same. I am sure gillett would be able to do the holding role.

Then again I am also thinking along the lines that Morgan could grow into the role as he toughens up under our new regime. It would be nice to find another stronger version but if we are going to keep him we should try to build a team around him. Wotton is only ever going to be short term. He is aging and that will make him even slower and more likely to get booked for late tackles.

One thing that amuses me is the reliance of people on tackling. Tackling is an art form of it's own. Players that are good at this art are few and far between. A hell of a lot of good skilfull players have found this art beyond them at most times. MLT for example.

Morgan has a lot going for him and if he is good enough for our team and our manager we simply need to fill the team with enough muscle to help him out.

AP will undoubtedly have in his own mind how he sees us progress. I have seen enough to believe that he will do us proud. That said, I will cheer every player we see in our colours even if I don't think he/they is/are good enough.

If wotton playing helps us play as a single fighting machine so be it.

[Window Cleaner]

I shall wait before revising my opinion of Wotton until we play someone a little better than Gillingham reserves. Southend will tell us more (if he plays)

[Crab Lungs]

Why has no-one called him 'Wooton' on this thread yet?

[Scummer]

Why has no-one called him 'Wooton' on this thread yet?

 

See post #34

[david in sweden]

Wotton may be the Huxford/Walker/Case type of defender we need right now, especially as " skill " seem to be at a premium in L1.

 

Huxford!!

 

Blimey, how old ARE you?

 

 

 

old to enough to have seen him play ...regularly !

[Torres]

How much did Wotton actually win on Saturday? I wasn't at SMS but the games I saw him play earlier in the season (Millwall, Huddersfield, Swindon) he wasn't mobile enough to get near the opposition to win it...

[Professor]

All interesting stuff, but Pards sees Wotton play in training and in matches. The manager and the coaches also know to what extent Wotton follows team orders. So if he's picked to play, we should assume that Pardew knows what he's doing better than the fans on the terrace.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

If Paul Wotton is the answer than it must be a very peculiar question - Which Saints player would make an excellent door stop ? for instance .

 

I've never seen this player give less than his best for this club , and you can ask no more from anybody . The trouble is his best just doesn't amount to very much these days . A squad player at best IMO .

 

Of course I could be completely wrong and he might even score a last minute winner tonight !

Edited 6 October, 2009 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE
Edited in desperate attempt to prevent embarrassment .

[saint_stevo]

Did ok tonight, distribution still poor but harries the opposition reasonably...

 

Gillet had a bit of a mare mind

[david in sweden]

If Paul Wotton is the answer than it must be a very peculiar question - Which Saints player would make an excellent door stop ? for instance .

I've never seen this player give less than his best for this club , and you can ask no more from anybody . The trouble is his best just doesn't amount to very much these days . A squad player at best IMO .

 

 

Of course I could be completely wrong and he might even score a last minute winner tonight !

 

 

 

I think.he probably did !

[alpine_saint]

Another good game last night, then..

 

Seems to me he has far from outlived his usefulness to us, despite his lack of popularity with a certain element of the fan base..

[S-Clarke]

Credit where it's due for Wotton.

 

a good professional, who digs in and does the ugly side of the game whilst the advanced lads get on with their passing.

 

It makes a huge difference to the confidence of a team when they know they've got a back 5 really.

[Saint Fen]

Had a good game last night, The three in the middle dominated most of the game Hammond is a superb signing, Morgan did well being pushed further forward, certainly getting stuck in a lot more.

 

Wotton did well, just holds in front of the defence but this will only ever work with three in the middle which we are currently playing.