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Cortese's biggest mistake: Forget Alan Pardew...

benjii

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benjii

benjii

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Posted

forget the faux-annoyance of some **** at The Sun...

forget the Plymouth Argus...

forget not being able to ram a filthy thermo-nuclear pie down your cake hole...

forget not being given interest free payment options (and having to arrange one yourself)...

forget match-day increases (not the only club, by the way)...

forget booking fees...

hell, even forget masterminding the entire resurrection of the club if you want...

 

no, I'll tell you what Cortese's biggest mistake has been:

 

Overestimating the intelligence of our fan base.

 

Clearly Cortese thinks we're sensible human beings. People who appreciate that things are seldom black and white. People who realise that you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. People who appreciate the complexities of life. People who understand that instant gratification is not available to everyone, and certainly not for free.

 

What one of his advisors needs to do is take him to one side, and have a quiet word:

 

"Nicola, many of these people are simple folk. They lack emotional maturity. They look for any excuse to get outraged. They need to feel part of something, as they are a bit empty. They have limited intellectual capacity for patience. They like to moan about a lack of success or ambition, yet woe-betide anyone who dares to exhibit a modicum of either. They like to be debased by anodyne platitudes and spoon-fed sickly pastry-pouches of attention. They want the best, for the least. They hate footballers, football, the Premier League, the opposition, the opposition fans, the ref, yet they want them all in abundance - the more consumable and digestible the better; they want to swallow it all, **** it out and eat it again with sugar on top. Just feed them a few lines now and again - they will lap it up".

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landford.saint

landford.saint

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Agreed. Many fans seem to be like news papers. They dont let the facts (or lack of them) get in the way of a good story. At present we know nothing bapart from innuendo and rumours from scum papers with an axe to grind or from fantasist fans. As to facts from trustworthy sources we have virtually none. We know that AP was sacked, we know that NC has said he hasn't got anyone immediately lined up as replacement. That is virtually all.

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saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

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YEH!!! Hell to finding out anything that cruelly goes on at our club. Let's remain totally and utterly in the dark about every single part of it! Let's enjoy feeling totally and utterly detached!

 

I mean... What right do I have to have the faintest idea of what goes on at SFC? I only pay a weeks earnings to buy a season ticket and travel the length and breadth of the country to support our players... That gives me no right to know anything!

 

So for me Cortese, you just carry on with leaving us fans (who are this club, as without us, this club is precisely NOTHING) feeling completely and utterly detached from every single aspect of it.

 

Best in Class? SFC ate best in class at one thing, treating the fans like SH*T. I wasn't a Cortese basher, but the whole way this Pardew situation has been handled (going right back to when the echo were reporting he was under pressure) has absolutely stunk!

 

I no doubt he will pull a rabbit out of the hat and make some wonderous appointment, fooling me into thinking he is our messiah again, only to be reminded a few weeks or months down the line that the guy is a *****.

 

I don't want to feel like this, as I appreciate what his ambition is for us, but personally, I beginning to not want it. F*ck the premier league, just give me my club back.

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

Posted
Posted
forget the faux-annoyance of some **** at The Sun...

forget the Plymouth Argus...

forget not being able to ram a filthy thermo-nuclear pie down your cake hole...

forget not being given interest free payment options (and having to arrange one yourself)...

forget match-day increases (not the only club, by the way)...

forget booking fees...

hell, even forget masterminding the entire resurrection of the club if you want...

 

no, I'll tell you what Cortese's biggest mistake has been:

 

Overestimating the intelligence of our fan base.

 

Clearly Cortese thinks we're sensible human beings. People who appreciate that things are seldom black and white. People who realise that you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. People who appreciate the complexities of life. People who understand that instant gratification is not available to everyone, and certainly not for free.

 

What one of his advisors needs to do is take him to one side, and have a quiet word:

 

"Nicola, many of these people are simple folk. They lack emotional maturity. They look for any excuse to get outraged. They need to feel part of something, as they are a bit empty. They have limited intellectual capacity for patience. They like to moan about a lack of success or ambition, yet woe-betide anyone who dares to exhibit a modicum of either. They like to be debased by anodyne platitudes and spoon-fed sickly pastry-pouches of attention. They want the best, for the least. They hate footballers, football, the Premier League, the opposition, the opposition fans, the ref, yet they want them all in abundance - the more consumable and digestible the better; they want to swallow it all, **** it out and eat it again with sugar on top. Just feed them a few lines now and again - they will lap it up".

 

So essentially what your saying is we shouldn't ever be bothered about anything, that we shouldn't react negatively to ANY situation. Sacking and re-appointing a new manager is the biggest decision a chairman ever has to make at a football club. I feel this decision has been made completely irresponsibly, and therefore I am ****ing angry with Cortese for doing it. And you're sat there saying I cannot react to this news the way that I want?

 

What is soooooo damn ironic about your post is that you say we, as a fanbase, have no patience. Isn't it just lovely and peachy that Pardew has been sacked for what is seen as a lack of patience from Cortese.

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saintscottofthenortham

saintscottofthenortham

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Agreed. Many fans seem to be like news papers. They dont let the facts (or lack of them) get in the way of a good story. At present we know nothing bapart from innuendo and rumours from scum papers with an axe to grind or from fantasist fans. As to facts from trustworthy sources we have virtually none. We know that AP was sacked, we know that NC has said he hasn't got anyone immediately lined up as replacement. That is virtually all.

 

Oh I must have missed this... Because from what I have seen, Cortese has said p*ss sh*t f*ck all!!!!

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benjii

benjii

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So essentially what your saying is we shouldn't ever be bothered about anything, that we shouldn't react negatively to ANY situation. Sacking and re-appointing a new manager is the biggest decision a chairman ever has to make at a football club. I feel this decision has been made completely irresponsibly, and therefore I am ****ing angry with Cortese for doing it. And you're sat there saying I cannot react to this news the way that I want?

 

What is soooooo damn ironic about your post is that you say we, as a fanbase, have no patience. Isn't it just lovely and peachy that Pardew has been sacked for what is seen as a lack of patience from Cortese.

 

No, I am clearly not saying that. I am saying that flying off the handle without knowing how the dust is settling is just silly. And I don't think Pardew has been sacked for football results reasons - if he was going to be sacked for those he would've gone in the summer.

 

What I am advocating is a more considered appraisal of the situation.

 

Remember that:

 

We are the biggest fish in our pond.

We are a fish that a lot of anglers would like to hook.

We are a fish that requires minimal preparation to cook (er... not sure where I'm going with this).

 

Remember that:

 

We are still in a bloody good position. I think one of the main reasons we are in that position is the vision of the man in charge. He's just done something that he knew would be unpopular. He must've had a good reason for doing it. He is more important, IMO, than Alan Pardew and I have seen nothing to suggest that we are not still in an excellent position in terms of our future. I just hope that, before people decide to express their annoyance (publically), they ask themselves if it's really the best thing to do? Do we not still have an excellent chance of going up? Do we not still have a part to play? If a mood of negativity develops it will not be anyone's fault other than the fans who would sooner go off on one than think things through.

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John B

John B

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I think NC/ML made a bad mistake appointing Pardew in the first place before the Club structure was in place it was done in such a rush

 

I still think he should have stuck with Wotte for a few months explaining to him what the future held and then they could appoint a Top Class First team coach to take the team forward after the structure of the club had been agreed.

 

The club is nothing like it was before Pardew arrive and possibly he resented it.

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Joensuu

Joensuu

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Posted

Finally, someone starting a sensible Cortese post, thank you Benjii.

 

This is the first time I have posted since Alan's departure. Like others, I was shocked, and confused by events, but when I logged on to here, people were pinning all the blame on Cortese. My first assumption had been that Pardew must have done something wrong, either in conduct or perhaps in approaching another team. Having said that I was always luke-warm to Pardew - he did okay, but only just okay. As such, I was considering him as 'sackable' if a better candidate were avaliable.

 

I'm not prepared (as most on here seem to be) to direct anger at Cortese. So far we still don't know what has gone on. When we appoint the next manager we will have a better idea of what has happened. If they are worse than (or with a smaller reputation) than Pardew, then I will reluctantly come to accept that Cortese has lost control. However, if, as I suspect, the next manager turns out to be a coup, Cortese's decision will make a lot of sense. The entire direction of Saints will be determined by the next appointment, until it is made it is rather strange to direct anger at anyone.

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Sour Mash

Sour Mash

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Ha ha, this opening post sums up the smug, over-intellectualising that so many of the regular posters indulge themselves in, loving looking down at most of our match going support.

 

Cortese's problem is the absolute opposite! He looks at us as idiots, good for one thing and one thing only, to squeeze as much money out of us as possible, while not seeing us as worthy of any information other than his pre-edited official releases from the clubs. The more I think about it, the more I think the suggestion that Cortese's biggest mistake is treating fans as though they are “intelligent” is one of the funniest/most bizarre posts on here in a long time.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

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No, I am clearly not saying that. I am saying that flying off the handle without knowing how the dust is settling is just silly. And I don't think Pardew has been sacked for football results reasons - if he was going to be sacked for those he would've gone in the summer.

 

What I am advocating is a more considered appraisal of the situation.

 

Remember that:

 

We are the biggest fish in our pond.

We are a fish that a lot of anglers would like to hook.

We are a fish that requires minimal preparation to cook (er... not sure where I'm going with this).

 

Remember that:

 

We are still in a bloody good position. I think one of the main reasons we are in that position is the vision of the man in charge. He's just done something that he knew would be unpopular. He must've had a good reason for doing it. He is more important, IMO, than Alan Pardew and I have seen nothing to suggest that we are not still in an excellent position in terms of our future. I just hope that, before people decide to express their annoyance (publically), they ask themselves if it's really the best thing to do? Do we not still have an excellent chance of going up? Do we not still have a part to play? If a mood of negativity develops it will not be anyone's fault other than the fans who would sooner go off on one than think things through.

 

While there has certainly been a good deal of over-the-top criticism of Cortese, I think it does a dis-service to fans to suggest that people can't express their sincere disappointment about how this has all come about. The sacking of Wally Downes and Stuart Murdoch as well as Pardew would inidicate that this is a complete structural change rather than a kneejerk reaction from the chairman, in addition to the club statement and comments from the first team player alluding to such.

 

As such, I think it entirely justifiable to criticise the timing of all of this. I'm sure Cortese has his reasons for wanting to make the change, but it really coulod not come at a worse time. We have plodded through pre-season and the early season games in the knowledge that we're still 2 or 3 players short of the squad that we need, and it would be folly to suggest that Pardew's impending departure had nothing to do with that.

 

So I don't think blaming the fans for reacting this way is all that fair. Cortese simply has to take his share of the blame for the shambolic way this has all been handled. Do I think he is capable of putting a top level structure back in place? Of course. But to put ourselves in a position of weakness before doing so is a failure on his behalf that he needs to rectify, and very soon if last night is anything to go by.

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beatlesaint

beatlesaint

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I think what you need to consider is that many people are disgusted that a guy who they feel is doing a good job has been sacked for reasons that have not been made clear. Ok, it may be something whereby the nuts and bolts cannot be discussed but a statement a bit better than that thing the club issued Monday would have helped.

 

Basically nobody knows why he has been sacked. So, if taken at face value, which quite often has to be done in lieu of further information, AP is sacked after a 4-0 victory away from home, following on from a season where we won a trophy and would have made the play-offs without the 10 point deduction.

 

Wanting success quickly is one thing, and yes its a good thing, but there has to be a reality check thrown into the mix somewhere, and again at face value it hasn't.

 

If me being outraged at AP's sacking makes me simple in your world then fine.

If me being outraged at AP's sacking because I see it as un-necessary and a big mistake as well as being mean and petty towards a decent man who was doing a good job then tough, shoot me.

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Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

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Posted
YEH!!! Hell to finding out anything that cruelly goes on at our club. Let's remain totally and utterly in the dark about every single part of it! Let's enjoy feeling totally and utterly detached!

 

I mean... What right do I have to have the faintest idea of what goes on at SFC? I only pay a weeks earnings to buy a season ticket and travel the length and breadth of the country to support our players... That gives me no right to know anything!

 

So for me Cortese, you just carry on with leaving us fans (who are this club, as without us, this club is precisely NOTHING) feeling completely and utterly detached from every single aspect of it.

 

Best in Class? SFC ate best in class at one thing, treating the fans like SH*T. I wasn't a Cortese basher, but the whole way this Pardew situation has been handled (going right back to when the echo were reporting he was under pressure) has absolutely stunk!

 

I no doubt he will pull a rabbit out of the hat and make some wonderous appointment, fooling me into thinking he is our messiah again, only to be reminded a few weeks or months down the line that the guy is a *****.

 

I don't want to feel like this, as I appreciate what his ambition is for us, but personally, I beginning to not want it. F*ck the premier league, just give me my club back.

 

Did Father Christmas promise you a season-ticket if you did well in your SATs?

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Panda

Panda

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Posted

Thanks Benji, wish I had written that. The reason Pardew, Downes and Murdoch were sacked CANNOT be made public. To do so would start open warfare and possibly lead to court cases! We actually have no right to know! What has gone on is between those involved and if NC saw fit to do what he has done then he, and he alone, will have to live by the consequences. We are merely spectators and all we can do is watch and hope. I thought we had hit rock bottom last May, I had hoped things had taken a turn for the best and good times were ahead. Despite being upset at the loss of Marcus and surprised by the loss of AP there will better times to come, this is just a set back.

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benjii

benjii

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I think what you need to consider is that many people are disgusted that a guy who they feel is doing a good job has been sacked for reasons that have not been made clear. Ok, it may be something whereby the nuts and bolts cannot be discussed but a statement a bit better than that thing the club issued Monday would have helped.

 

Basically nobody knows why he has been sacked. So, if taken at face value, which quite often has to be done in lieu of further information, AP is sacked after a 4-0 victory away from home, following on from a season where we won a trophy and would have made the play-offs without the 10 point deduction.

 

Wanting success quickly is one thing, and yes its a good thing, but there has to be a reality check thrown into the mix somewhere, and again at face value it hasn't.

 

If me being outraged at AP's sacking makes me simple in your world then fine.

If me being outraged at AP's sacking because I see it as un-necessary and a big mistake as well as being mean and petty towards a decent man who was doing a good job then tough, shoot me.

 

No problem at all with people being disappointed by the sacking. I think he would've taken us up this season (unless there is a lot of unrest behind the scenes on the playing side) so if it was purely a football decision I will be against it unless an outstanding replacement is appointed.

 

I'm not sure exactly why he was sacked. The most informative piece so far seems to have been that BBC blog which suggested that there was disquiet amongst the staff but that, in footballing terms, Cortese was a bigger Pardew fan than Markus was. Now, I'm not sure who, what, why etc but if it was a new thing that threatened to develop into a big thing then it's better to sort it sooner rather than later.

 

One area where I do have faith is that Cortese has not suddenly gone on some sort of frugal exercise - it is not cheap to sack people like that and I don't think we're going to be appointing some no-mark replacement. This is not Lowe. This is Cortese. He saved us by bringing in loads of money. Without him we would probably be right in the **** still - a third tier Pompey. He saved us, that doesn't give him carte-blanche to do what he likes without reprisal but if his modus operandi is to keep information in house then I, for one, think we owe it to him to respect that without resorting to personal abuse without full command of the facts.

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Andoverian

Andoverian

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Posted
Ha ha, this opening post sums up the smug, over-intellectualising that so many of the regular posters indulge themselves in, loving looking down at most of our match going support.

 

Cortese's problem is the absolute opposite! He looks at us as idiots, good for one thing and one thing only, to squeeze as much money out of us as possible, while not seeing us as worthy of any information other than his pre-edited official releases from the clubs. The more I think about it, the more I think the suggestion that Cortese's biggest mistake is treating fans as though they are “intelligent” is one of the funniest/most bizarre posts on here in a long time.

Dead right mate Spot on !!

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SouthportSaint

SouthportSaint

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I agree with the original post although I think Cortese does understand what a fickle bunch we football fans are. He knows that if we had lost to Swindon with Pardew still in post (which could have happened) and then drawn 0-0 with Rochdale (which could have happened) many of the fans chanting Pardew's name last night would have been calling for him to be sacked by 5pm on Saturday. That is just the way we are these days. Equally, he probably knows that if he gets a decent manager in and we win 2 or 3 games in a row then within a few weeks we will all be happy bunnies again.

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The9

The9

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Posted
forget the faux-annoyance of some **** at The Sun...

forget the Plymouth Argus...

forget not being able to ram a filthy thermo-nuclear pie down your cake hole...

forget not being given interest free payment options (and having to arrange one yourself)...

forget match-day increases (not the only club, by the way)...

forget booking fees...

hell, even forget masterminding the entire resurrection of the club if you want...

 

no, I'll tell you what Cortese's biggest mistake has been:

 

Overestimating the intelligence of our fan base.

 

Clearly Cortese thinks we're sensible human beings. People who appreciate that things are seldom black and white. People who realise that you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs. People who appreciate the complexities of life. People who understand that instant gratification is not available to everyone, and certainly not for free.

 

What one of his advisors needs to do is take him to one side, and have a quiet word:

 

"Nicola, many of these people are simple folk. They lack emotional maturity. They look for any excuse to get outraged. They need to feel part of something, as they are a bit empty. They have limited intellectual capacity for patience. They like to moan about a lack of success or ambition, yet woe-betide anyone who dares to exhibit a modicum of either. They like to be debased by anodyne platitudes and spoon-fed sickly pastry-pouches of attention. They want the best, for the least. They hate footballers, football, the Premier League, the opposition, the opposition fans, the ref, yet they want them all in abundance - the more consumable and digestible the better; they want to swallow it all, **** it out and eat it again with sugar on top. Just feed them a few lines now and again - they will lap it up".

 

I'm assuming sarcasm in the OP, but if not...

 

On the contrary, his mistake is underestimating the intelligence of some of the fan base - people actually going to the trouble of finding out that the reasons for not having an instalment plan were risible, challenging his unverifiable statement about Markus supporting his decisions (and then dumping the manager as soon as he realistically could after Markus' death nevertheless), looking at his fallings out with the local and national media and deducing it can only be for ego-driven reasons, terrible PR or at best an unworkable business model.

 

Transparency for those who can be bothered to ask and want to know WHY, along with the sickly-sweet sanitised versions on the OS for those who just don't want to know or don't care.

 

And FFS, free photos for all.

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niceandfriendly

niceandfriendly

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Posted
While there has certainly been a good deal of over-the-top criticism of Cortese, I think it does a dis-service to fans to suggest that people can't express their sincere disappointment about how this has all come about. The sacking of Wally Downes and Stuart Murdoch as well as Pardew would inidicate that this is a complete structural change rather than a kneejerk reaction from the chairman, in addition to the club statement and comments from the first team player alluding to such.

 

As such, I think it entirely justifiable to criticise the timing of all of this. I'm sure Cortese has his reasons for wanting to make the change, but it really coulod not come at a worse time. We have plodded through pre-season and the early season games in the knowledge that we're still 2 or 3 players short of the squad that we need, and it would be folly to suggest that Pardew's impending departure had nothing to do with that.

 

So I don't think blaming the fans for reacting this way is all that fair. Cortese simply has to take his share of the blame for the shambolic way this has all been handled. Do I think he is capable of putting a top level structure back in place? Of course. But to put ourselves in a position of weakness before doing so is a failure on his behalf that he needs to rectify, and very soon if last night is anything to go by.

 

Very good post, the last paragraph especially.

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Dibden Purlieu Saint

Dibden Purlieu Saint

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I think what you need to consider is that many people are disgusted that a guy who they feel is doing a good job has been sacked for reasons that have not been made clear. Ok, it may be something whereby the nuts and bolts cannot be discussed but a statement a bit better than that thing the club issued Monday would have helped.

 

Basically nobody knows why he has been sacked. So, if taken at face value, which quite often has to be done in lieu of further information, AP is sacked after a 4-0 victory away from home, following on from a season where we won a trophy and would have made the play-offs without the 10 point deduction.

 

Wanting success quickly is one thing, and yes its a good thing, but there has to be a reality check thrown into the mix somewhere, and again at face value it hasn't.

 

If me being outraged at AP's sacking makes me simple in your world then fine.

If me being outraged at AP's sacking because I see it as un-necessary and a big mistake as well as being mean and petty towards a decent man who was doing a good job then tough, shoot me.

 

1 million percent agree.

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trousers

trousers

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Posted
I agree with the original post although I think Cortese does understand what a fickle bunch we football fans are. He knows that if we had lost to Swindon with Pardew still in post (which could have happened) and then drawn 0-0 with Rochdale (which could have happened) many of the fans chanting Pardew's name last night would have been calling for him to be sacked by 5pm on Saturday. That is just the way we are these days. Equally, he probably knows that if he gets a decent manager in and we win 2 or 3 games in a row then within a few weeks we will all be happy bunnies again.

 

nutshell.jpg

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docker-p

docker-p

Posted
Posted

Interesting how the original poster starts by asking us to forget all NC's balls ups. At least he's good enough to appreciate they are mistakes.

Lets just recap them:

1. Introducing a booking fee, making it a lot more expensive for fans on a budget

2. Discontinuing the payment scheme, making owning a season ticket more difficult for loyal fans

3. Introducing a £10 parking fee for people traveling with the travel club to support their team.

4. Banning long term loyal fans for criticising him.

5. Banning the local newspaper for not following his agenda on a tiny matter.

6. Banning all press photographers in the hope of making a few hundred quid extra. Not realising that if this was a workable business model clubs with a lot more clout would have done it years ago, and now has simply removed any chance of additional exposure in the national press.

7. All sorts of PR gaffs surrounding local footballing legends

 

But lets put all that aside..... Oh hang on.... I forgot one..

 

8. Sitting on his ass all summer and waiting until three games into the season, and a day before the transfer window closes, to sack the manager.

 

A blinding summary from the original poster though. Truly blind.

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Victor

Victor

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Posted

OK, I'll have patience.

 

I will wait and see if NC has got rid of the management team while not having anyone in mind to replace them (as he says) which, at this stage of the season and with things as they were (pretty good and with no need to panic) seems utterly ridiculous and likely to prejudice our chances of promotion, or that, in fact, he has a considerably superior team lined up and ready to take over soon.

 

But my patience will run out if there is not a better team in place within 10 days, because otherwise we have a struggle on our hands.

 

And even if they are better I won't actually like it because it shows a ruthlessness I am not happy with. 'Patience'? Yes, I am all for it, but it was patience that made the old Saints stick with Lawrie when things went badly at the start and eventually lead to the best 10 years the club has had, done with honour and pride in what the club (and then it actually felt like a club to which I belonged) had achieved on very limited resources.

 

But patience to let money achieve the Premiership at the expense of treating staff, the fans etc, with contempt? You can ****ing keep your bloody patience!

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Gemmel

Gemmel

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Posted

Interesting post benji. I can live with some of what say , but certainly not all.

Whether fans are super intelligent or thick as mud is largely irrelevant, on the basis that as paying customers they are all equal (Einstein's ticket is the same price as Waynetta Slobs) and the customer base is finite.

You only need to read this board to get an idea of the delta between fans views on certain subjects and of course there are extremes at both ends. With regard to Cortese, those extremes range from him being the devils love child to our savior who rescued us and can do no wrong, but whatever end of the spectrum people’s views are, it is impossible to deny that his actions and methods, right here, right now, have left us weaker than we were two days ago. Time will tell whether we ultimately emerge stronger.

 

I don’t think any of us envisaged another situation, between the fans and the Chairman, but this one is real and it’s not just the fans. Rightly or wrongly, Cortese has alienated a whole host of different factions within the community and from the uber intelligent, to single celled amoebas amongst us, I don’t think it is unfair to ask for an explanation or an understanding of the situation/s.

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