Summer 2013 HCDAJFU / Transfer thread

[Andy Durman]

Had all summer to address this, but here we are.

 

Incredible, that five days before the start of the season and we are talking of a back four permutation involving Hooiveld, Fonte (although I rate him as a cut above the others mentioned here) and Fox. Worryingly, I don't rate Yoshida as much better either.

 

An injury to an 18 year old with less than 30 league games to his name, and its panic stations.

 

Yes because it's so easy just to throw some money and get any replacement!

[Andy Durman]

Had all summer to address this, but here we are.

 

Incredible, that five days before the start of the season and we are talking of a back four permutation involving Hooiveld, Fonte (although I rate him as a cut above the others mentioned here) and Fox. Worryingly, I don't rate Yoshida as much better either.

 

An injury to an 18 year old with less than 30 league games to his name, and its panic stations.

 

Yes because it's so easy just to throw some money and get any replacement!

 

Anyway looking at the U21's today we have some very good players just waiting to get a chance in the first team

[Badger]

Who's panicking?!

 

Badger

 

No, Panda, I'm not panicking at all. Too many other things to think about to 'panic' over this. Just surprised that we still have Hooiveld & Fox being touted for a starting place after so many times we have seen their limitations in the Prem.

[SNSUN]

I don't rate Fox in the Premier League but it's not like we're starting with 10 men! He'll do a job there temporarily. Granted he may cost us a goal or 2 in defensive lapses (or being beaten by better players), but hopefully he'll contribute with a decent set piece or two too.

[MINIBARCELONASAINT]

Back to the striker argument, as we do have money to spend, it is persuading them to come to us (what's been said here and confirmed by the few I know at the club); who is out there that you think is realistic and worthy?

 

I'll start with Bas Dost:

 

Jackson Martinez:

[Saint Charlie]

Martinez costs 35m plus. We clearly want Osvaldo.

[Alain Perrin]

Some of you need to grow a pair. FFS we had Benali as LB for years....

Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_276 using Board Express

[SuperMikey]

If we're going to break the bank for a striker, I would love to see us go for Seydou Doumbia from CSKA. Won't go cheap (between 20-25m euros) but a brilliant little player. Perhaps lacking in that physicality we're looking for up top, but he's a proper goalscorer.

[hutch]

Well that's ridiculous, but I thin Fox is probably as good as quite a few club's second choice left back.

 

I'll never understand why people bang on about injuries and relate it to lack of signings. We didn't know Clyne and Yoshida and Shaw would get injured. You can't have 10 or 11 great defenders just in case. Even the top clubs struggle with that, and we're a long way behind that level. So many geniuses with hindsight. Perhaps it's the club's fault for showing ambition, but expectation has had a pretty bad impact on this place. Natural I guess but I wish it was different. Just seems like spoiled brats everywhere, and if you dare to show any perspective, they think you're going to the opposite extreme.

 

I just wish people would show a bit more sense with transfers and look around. It all ends up being anti-saints, anti-cortese, committee, whatever, but it seems the same at every club.

Of course you can. And provided you remember to save the game, they'll still be there next time you switch on.

[Polaroid Saint]

As he hasn't managed it by the age of 27, I wouldn't get your hopes up. He is a good Championship level left back and is out of his depth in the Premier League.

 

Yes, of course. Because football players stop developing and improving at 27; they stagnate and never ever get any better, unable to adapt or build on their years of experience to improve their game.

 

I mean, look at Ricky Lambert for example.

[Sour Mash]

Yes, of course. Because football players stop developing and improving at 27; they stagnate and never ever get any better, unable to adapt or build on their years of experience to improve their game.

 

I mean, look at Ricky Lambert for example.

So you think Fox is likely to develop into a Premier League standard left back?

[Chez]

Some of you need to grow a pair. FFS we had Benali as LB for years....

Sent from my RM-821_eu_euro1_276 using Board Express

 

and only the genius of MLT prevented us from being relegated in most of them

[Plonko]

We need a left back that can do this:

[Stepgar]

Love it!

[SNSUN]

Jelle Vossen has been linked with a £7 million move from Genk to Newcastle. Would be a good signing for us IMO, he's a first rate goalscorer at that level, a good age at 24, a Belgian International and at £7 million a reasonably good value and low risk purchase.

[Olallana]

Another old one resurfacing....

 

http://www.calcionewstime.com/calciomercato-juvnetus-sorensen-verso-il-southampton/

 

He seems to have found accommodation, Frederik Sorensen . The defender of Juventus , or rather jointly owned between the above team and Bologna , would be in the crosshairs of the strong Southampton . The British in fact, as reported by the BBC , it would be ready for a strong investment in order to withdraw the central and enlist him in their ranks. In addition, the club of the channel seems much more confident in carrying out the operation with respect to the Zenit Spalletti, which is also affected in recent days to Danish player.

 

http://www.tuttojuve.com/calciomercato/sorensen-verso-la-premier-league-southampton-in-pole-151657

 

Frederik Sorensen could arrive in the Premier League this market session. The hypothesis prevails over the English in Russia. According to "La Gazzetta dello Sport," the Southampton would be in pole position to secure the Danish defender, co-owned between Juventus and Bologna and also treated by Spalletti's Zenit St. Petersburg.

[Bewildered]

Another old one resurfacing....

 

http://www.calcionewstime.com/calciomercato-juvnetus-sorensen-verso-il-southampton/

 

He seems to have found accommodation, Frederik Sorensen . The defender of Juventus , or rather jointly owned between the above team and Bologna , would be in the crosshairs of the strong Southampton . The British in fact, as reported by the BBC , it would be ready for a strong investment in order to withdraw the central and enlist him in their ranks. In addition, the club of the channel seems much more confident in carrying out the operation with respect to the Zenit Spalletti, which is also affected in recent days to Danish player.

 

http://www.tuttojuve.com/calciomercato/sorensen-verso-la-premier-league-southampton-in-pole-151657

 

Frederik Sorensen could arrive in the Premier League this market session. The hypothesis prevails over the English in Russia. According to "La Gazzetta dello Sport," the Southampton would be in pole position to secure the Danish defender, co-owned between Juventus and Bologna and also treated by Spalletti's Zenit St. Petersburg.

 

I haven't seen anything on the BBC about it as that first translation suggests.

 

edit: notice the first article has been changed since you posted it. Now says Gazzetta dello sport like the second article.

[Olallana]

I haven't seen anything on the BBC about it as that translation suggests.

 

Depends, they might be referring to the rumours in january.....perhaps..??

 

The problem with google translate

[Bewildered]

It now reads as Gazzetta dello sport, so I imagine it was an error that they changed.

[beavis17]

Another old one resurfacing....

 

http://www.calcionewstime.com/calciomercato-juvnetus-sorensen-verso-il-southampton/

 

He seems to have found accommodation, Frederik Sorensen . The defender of Juventus , or rather jointly owned between the above team and Bologna , would be in the crosshairs of the strong Southampton . The British in fact, as reported by the BBC , it would be ready for a strong investment in order to withdraw the central and enlist him in their ranks. In addition, the club of the channel seems much more confident in carrying out the operation with respect to the Zenit Spalletti, which is also affected in recent days to Danish player.

 

http://www.tuttojuve.com/calciomercato/sorensen-verso-la-premier-league-southampton-in-pole-151657

 

Frederik Sorensen could arrive in the Premier League this market session. The hypothesis prevails over the English in Russia. According to "La Gazzetta dello Sport," the Southampton would be in pole position to secure the Danish defender, co-owned between Juventus and Bologna and also treated by Spalletti's Zenit St. Petersburg.

 

With this and the apparent Kouyate link it seems we might still be after another centre back then.

 

Good!

[MerceSaint28]

Yeah we definitely need another centre back...would love another left back...Cissoko from Valencia interesting Sunderland now...he would be class

 

How many players have they signed??

[SuperSAINT]

Yeah we definitely need another centre back...would love another left back...Cissoko from Valencia interesting Sunderland now...he would be class

 

How many players have they signed??

 

10 so far (I think)

[Bearsy]

Someone really need to define 'premier league standard' for me as it keeps seeming to mean something that excludes loads of players playing in it.

 

Yeah sure, it's if ur the worst player in your position in the whole premier league.

[Smirking_Saint]

Someone really need to define 'premier league standard' for me as it keeps seeming to mean something that excludes loads of players playing in it.

 

You know exactly what people mean, you are just being pedantic as usual.

 

Was Dia premier league standard ? He indeed played in it ? No thought not.

 

Fox isnt of the required quality to play a regular feature in the PL, he is NPC standard but not PL standard, its really not rocket science.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Yeah sure, it's if ur the worst player in your position in the whole premier league.

 

As backup left-backs go, I rate Fox better than the following:

 

Potts (West Ham)

Robinson / Flanagan (Liverpool)

Duffy (Everton)

Lappin (Cardiff)

Bennett (Aston Villa)

 

Plus Sunderland, Crystal Palace, and Hull who don't appear to have one from what I can tell.

 

That doesn't mean I think Fox is good enough for a team with our aspirations, but as back-ups go the Premier League is hardly rich with talent in the left-back area.

 

I doubt any of the above teams would like to call on their back-up left back either.

[simo]

Any signing will do me today !

[TheSpankBoy]

He is starting 11 for Scotland. That sums up his possible contribution to any football side. At any point in his career.

[Bearsy]

So he's the worst reserve left back in the Premier League.

 

yeah I dunno, it's pretty subjective. He is pretty bad tho!

 

I've got a better definition now, how bout if you was to make a 23 man squad of the worst Premier League players, if you're in it then you're not Premier League quality. That seems more fair.

[DuncanRG]

yeah I dunno, it's pretty subjective. He is pretty bad tho!

 

I've got a better definition now, how bout if you was to make a 23 man squad of the worst Premier League players, if you're in it then you're not Premier League quality. That seems more fair.

 

Fox wouldn't get anywhere near it!

 

EDIT: (In a good way)

[JustMike]

Fox would be 1st choice LB at half the prem clubs.

 

Only out of our team as we have Shaw whose one of the top 4 LBs in the prem right now.

 

Behave! Unless you meant Scots prem!

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Any. Transfer. News? Or is this the 'have a go at Danny Fox' thread now? Just so's I know in future like.

[Saint Charlie]

The Sorensen link is interesting...maybe do still want a CB? Hope so!

[pangy]

Eto'o available for around £5 mill,would be a cracking signing,only problem is his £350k a week wages

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Eto'o available for around £5 mill,would be a cracking signing,only problem is his £350k a week wages

 

Ha, so if you signed him and he only stayed for 1 season it'd cost about £23million!

[NickG]

Yeah we definitely need another centre back...would love another left back...Cissoko from Valencia interesting Sunderland now...he would be class

 

How many players have they signed??

 

What's your basis for 'need'?

 

I can see we could have better CBs and don't have champions league level players but need??

 

Yoshida is a good CB. After his full debut we played the last 34 games with combinations of him, Jos and Jose.

 

In those last 34 games we earnt the 9th most points, letting in 9th fewest goals. This included the period before Boruc settled as No1.

 

We have now added a young international CB and mountain of a CM.

 

Have we ever had 3rd or 4th choice CBs this good?

 

We don't need more than 4. Personally love ambitious signings, but happy with yoshida/lovren - so would be exciting rather than a need for me.

[Chez]

Have we ever had 3rd or 4th choice CBs this good?

 

Better first choice CBs certainly, but very good question about the reserves. Not sure we have.

[hypochondriac]

Better first choice CBs certainly, but very good question about the reserves. Not sure we have.

 

But have we had a stated ambition to finish top half of the table before?

[JoeShmoe]

A few of the random rumour sites talking about us swapping Aaron Cresswell for Billy Sharp with Ipswich

 

I'd definitely do that, give them Fox as well

[Glasgow_Saint]

Behave! Unless you meant Scots prem!

 

Hi Mike,

 

I think he is a better LB or on par with the current LBs at Aston Villa, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Hull City, Norwich City, Stoke City, Sunderland, WHU and WBA

 

Better player than some give him credit for. Typical SWF band wagon stuff Mike. 5-6 posters say he's crap and the forum agrees

 

I say get behind the players and support the team - If MoPo believes in him, then so do I

 

Glasgow.

[Minsk]

Hi Mike,

 

I think he is a better LB or on par with the current LBs at Aston Villa, Cardiff City, Crystal Palace, Fulham, Hull City, Norwich City, Stoke City, Sunderland, WHU and WBA

 

Better player than some give him credit for. Typical SWF band wagon stuff Mike. 5-6 posters say he's crap and the forum agrees

 

I say get behind the players and support the team - If MoPo believes in him, then so do I

 

Glasgow.

 

Good post Glasgow.

 

He is certainly better than all of their 2nd choice LBs.

[MerceSaint28]

He is better than Norwich's second choice Olsson ?? i think not

 

Fox is just not a partuclarly good player...he could be easily upgraded at marginal expense...hence why i don't understand why we don't

 

ditto Hoiveld, Fonte and Guly

[pingwing]

He is better than Norwich's second choice Olsson ?? i think not

 

Fox is just not a partuclarly good player...he could be easily upgraded at marginal expense...hence why i don't understand why we don't

 

ditto Hoiveld, Fonte and Guly

 

Olsson will be their first choice this season

 

Marginal expense is only the money aspect of transfers, there's the team building aspect that we can't do in a week (takes years) and getting someone in who will play second fiddle when our first choice is properly fit is stupid, the wrong type of personality at the club to have and a waste of any money (especially as there will be a financial hit moving on the players you have listed).

[Saint Bowood]

He is better than Norwich's second choice Olsson ?? i think not

 

Fox is just not a partuclarly good player...he could be easily upgraded at marginal expense...hence why i don't understand why we don't

 

ditto Hoiveld, Fonte and Guly

 

Isn't it about the TEAM tho - the collective and how they perform as a unit - not about individuals. You could have the best player in the world in each position and put them all together and if they didn't gel they wouldn't necessarily win anything.

Fox may not be the best left back or back-up left back in the league but he's an integral part of a TEAM of people who collectively were the 14th best in the league last season. We believe that TEAM has been strengthened by adding Dejan and Victor (and maybe others on the way) but its how they integrate and how the TEAM performs that will determine if we can do better this season. Rickie is our talisman/hero but think back to the times on this forum last season when we had remarks like " didnt look interested" "not in the game" "seems to have lost his spark". But he scored 15 goals and rightly is enjoying the spoils of that. It's not about individuals its about the TEAM. NC / MP ( and the Committee) know that and whether retaining or acquiring players, how they fit into the collective is a very important aspect in making their decisions. Excellent Team spirit is worth more points in a season than Fox's mistakes will cost us.

[St.Patrik]

Just got of the phone with a colleague in our subsidary in Norway. He told me some interesting stuff regarding Forren. He lives near Molde so he knows people involved with the club. He told me Saints payed £2.7mill for Forren is January and got £900 000 for him now in June....not what I call good business : / Also Forren WAS a Adkins signing and MP never gave him the chance just because of that. So thats the reason for him moving back really. MP had told him that he was not in his plans so a return to Norway was a good option for the lad and my colleague thinks Forren will move again soon because he is a really good player - just changing club at the wrong time.

[Olallana]

I dont really get this discussion about LB Cover and that we must get a new player in, it doesn´t work like that in the real world....

 

Let´s say you could ask every manageer in the league this question.

- How many percent of your transfer budget this summer are you going to spend on a left back cover??

 

How many laughs do you think you would get?

And even if someone said like 5% (which I think is a high number on a question like that) those 5% dont get you far. If we have a budget of £40m and that would mean about £2m for a left back, and you dont get much for that these days and probably not anything better than a player that already is in the squad and o popular fellow there....

 

+ if you get someone in you need to get the player you have out, otherwise you´re paying double wages and have a player you wont use...

 

Welcome to the real world fellas...

 

And before someone goes on about all the players we have on our books without using them.....yes we have, due to a faster success than anyone could think of as a reality and those players are definitely not PL Class so therefore we´re not using them, but unfortunately with bonuses they have wages to high for teams in Champonship to be interested and players dont really like wage cuts, like everyone else of us really....

[SuperSAINT]

Huddlestone signs for Hull.

 

Decent signing for them.

[Toon Saint]

Also Forren WAS a Adkins signing and MP never gave him the chance just because of that. So thats the reason for him moving back really. MP had told him that he was not in his plans so a return to Norway was a good option for the lad and my colleague thinks Forren will move again soon because he is a really good player - just changing club at the wrong time.

 

Didn't Forren himself say that he hadn't spoken to Adkins but Poch and Cortese before he signed? I thought it was referred to as a 'Southampton' signing.

 

Even if it was an Adkins transfer, surely Poch wouldn't be so petty as to marginalize a player just because he was signed by the former man in charge? Would that then also apply to Clyne, Ramirez, Maya, Mayuka, Cork, etc?

 

Interesting insight on the money we lost though. Pretty poor business, indeed.

[Minsk]

Just got of the phone with a colleague in our subsidary in Norway. He told me some interesting stuff regarding Forren. He lives near Molde so he knows people involved with the club. He told me Saints payed £2.7mill for Forren is January and got £900 000 for him now in June....not what I call good business : / Also Forren WAS a Adkins signing and MP never gave him the chance just because of that. So thats the reason for him moving back really. MP had told him that he was not in his plans so a return to Norway was a good option for the lad and my colleague thinks Forren will move again soon because he is a really good player - just changing club at the wrong time.

 

Not saying you are wrong, but according to Sky we recouped 1.7m. Still a loss of a mill, plus fees, plus wages, etc. So still a very bad bit of business.

[Smirking_Saint]

They were nearly all Adkin's signings. Why on earth would MP isolate one to pick on? I'm sure he left because MP didn't rate him, or he didn't want to stay, homesick or whatever.

 

He was homesick and deemed not of the required quality. He never reallt gelled with the rest of the lads.

 

As per who's signing it was I dont actually know, Adkins was reported to have intimated in interviews that he wasnt aware who Forren was, whether that is because he didnt know he was coming in or it was more of adkins Art of war crap I dont really know and is up for speculation.

 

It was however a pretty poor bit of business however you look at it.

[Smirking_Saint]

Adkins is either a good actor or didn't know who Forren was. Makes more sense it was a MP/committee signing. While it's obscene money, I think at this level today, a few gambles of that level are worth it. You may get a couple wrong but there's always risk and if your scouting team is any good you'll recoup it on other player values rising.

 

Forren was a waste of a million or so, Mayuka yet to be seen, but JRod has probably increased in value, Clyne has a lot, Cork has, Morgan has 20-fold, even Puncheon. Ramirez cost a lot but doubt he's lost value and could yet increase it. All subsidises the gambles anyway. Yoshida was a gamble, but one that very much helped us stay up.

 

For me it certainly seems more likely that it was a committee signing, shows how little faith they had in Adkins spotting a player that they clearly hadnt talked to him about it (if it was the case) or just how doomed Adkins was. FWIW I think that player signings are probably Adkins worst points as a manager, if he starts to get them right he could potentially be a decent PL manager but you cant blame the man considering more or less his entire career was in the lower leagues.

 

As per transfers you are spot on and many on here fail to realise that, all are more or less gambles, especially younger players or those from abroad. Even many who appear dead certs can end up as flops. Nobody is infallible, even Wenger and SAF have fallen foul of their fair share and they have massive knowledge and top scouting networks to back them up.

 

Spunking 1m on Forren doesnt bother me too much, but it shows what happens when you rush things. I get the impression Forren is a very homley player and I seriously doubt he will move far from Molde in his career. But it is reasons such as this tgat I agree with targeting the right players and making sure we get them.