Long - Thoughts?

[Roger]

I think he's been poor. Other than Leicester as sub and Everton at home think at 12 million he's looked poor. Koeman basically said he didn't make enough runs after game. Think we could have spent money much more wisely.

[Grigsy]

I think he's been poor. Other than Leicester as sub and Everton at home think at 12 million he's looked poor. Koeman basically said he didn't make enough runs after game. Think we could have spent money much more wisely.

 

Is the right answer.

[supersonic]

Very poor again today - absolutely no link up play with Pelle.

 

We've been well and truly mugged off with this signing.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Our RH side first half today was costing us - JWP was doing his best, but SL didn't look that interested out there on the right.

 

Why not just play him in the Mane role??

[Turkish]

Who had long in who the next whipping boy sweepstake?

[benjii]

I like him and he adds something to the squad that our other forwards don't but, let's be frank, he's got Jimmy Saville's first touch and he isn't top six quality as a starter.

[Graffito]

Any way the wind blows, this forum. We win and everything's great. We don't win and who's to blame?

[Saint Charlie]

Any way the wind blows, this forum. We win and everything's great. We don't win and who's to blame?

 

Hardly that. You can win and still have players not playing well and the opposite too. He doesn't contribute towards our season either way to be honest so not really related to our results but he has been largely poor whilst most of his teammates have been largely excellent.

 

For what we ask him to do (not the role he has for most of his career), he isn't suited or really good enough. Poor signing.

Edited 4 January, 2015 by Saint Charlie

[Roger]

Any way the wind blows, this forum. We win and everything's great. We don't win and who's to blame?

 

Not fair at all. Tbf long been here half a season and hasn't been good at all so far.

[washsaint]

He has actually been pretty good I think - not a starter as it stands, but he puts himself about, makes room and space for others and has some pace. Good squad player - of course we overpaid, same way Liverpool overpaid for all our players.

 

He is not a winger (neither is Mane) and I think playing both out of position (Mane looks a different player through the middle) has not made look them strong.

[Roger]

Hardly that. You can win and still have players not playing well and the opposite too. He doesn't contribute towards our season either way to be honest so not really related to our results but he has been largely poor whilst most of his teammates have been largely excellent.

 

For what we ask him to do (not the role he has for most of his career), he isn't suited or really good enough. Poor signing.

 

He has actually been pretty good I think - not a starter as it stands, but he puts himself about, makes room and space for others and has some pace. Good squad player - of course we overpaid, same way Liverpool overpaid for all our players.

 

He is not a winger (neither is Mane) and I think playing both out of position (Mane looks a different player through the middle) has not made look them strong.

 

Don't agree. V poor today. Even koeman basically said he didn't make enough runs. Mane much better and younger.

[angelman]

I think his signing was important to bring about some PL experience - RK even came out and said as much. As it happens, things have gelled much better than most would have expected, so maybe on hindsight, that wasn't so important. He works hard. Looking at his performances this year, if you only take Leicester, then he has accounted for 8% of our points haul.

 

But...to me, we need to sign another striker as Long isn't good enough.

[Saint Benali]

Isgrove made Long look utter crap today. When ever he go the ball he tried to get at a player or go for a sensible pass. His cross near the end was awesome. Long just runs, that's all he does. I'm not saying Long is to blame but he is adding nothing as a winger/forward. Pelle has so much to do on his own. Hopefully this new guy will chip in with goals and attacking play like Mane has.

[andoru]

We overpaid, but that's not Long's fault, so ignoring the transfer fee and just focusing on his contribution, I'm still fairly satisfied. His energy is infectious, and perks up tired players when he comes on, and his running causes defenders problems. Just look at how he created space for Jack Cork to score against Sunderland. He's also a scrapper who chases balls down and forces defenders and midfielders into errors by snapping at their heels. He also won us the game against Leicester when we were struggling to break them down. I'm not saying he's amazing, but plays his part. He certainly isn't crap.

[david in sweden]

We overpaid, but that's not Long's fault, so ignoring the transfer fee and just focusing on his contribution, I'm still fairly satisfied. His energy is infectious, and perks up tired players when he comes on, and his running causes defenders problems. Just look at how he created space for Jack Cork to score against Sunderland. He's also a scrapper who chases balls down and forces defenders and midfielders into errors by snapping at their heels. He also won us the game against Leicester when we were struggling to break them down. I'm not saying he's amazing, but plays his part. He certainly isn't crap.

 

AGREE -good analysis. He was probably worth the £6 million that Hull paid, but we made them an offer they couldn't refuse.

Edited 5 January, 2015 by david in sweden

[Ex Lion Tamer]

We need to accept that while £12m generally gets you good players in most positions, up front it is much more of a gamble. It worked with Pelle but less so with Long

[Lallana's Left Peg]

What happened to all the people that said Shane Long would score more goals because he was now playing in a better team? Plenty of people changed their tune now I see.

[Saint Charlie]

What happened to all the people that said Shane Long would score more goals because he was now playing in a better team? Plenty of people changed their tune now I see.

 

They now say that he "creates space for others".

 

He seems to be a forward that is exempt from judgement based on goals, assists and chances created.

[andoru]

They now say that he "creates space for others".

 

He seems to be a forward that is exempt from judgement based on goals, assists and chances created.

 

Maybe he's been incorrectly labeled? I played in just about every part of the pitch as a younger man, but was always considered a right back no matter where I was put. I was actually best doing a Wanyama-style job, but when I did I was a right back being played as a defensive midfielder, rather than just a defensive midfielder. Perhaps Long is carrying a label based on nothing more than having been played in a certain role in the past. Do we know for sure that Saints bought him to play as he's always been played before? He said himself he was being played in a different position to what he was used to.

[Kingsland Codger]

Yesterday, in the second half, Long was constantly looking to make a break towards the Kingsland/Chapel corner and challenge Mings, their left-back. Mings was on a yellow and Long clearly had him for pace but although he was making the starting run, the ball was rarely played to him. This made me wonder about the fitness needed to make a very fast break over a 10 metre stretch time-and-time again. He was taken down (no penalty given) and was awarded a foul just outside the box for a free kick when the original contact looked just inside.

 

He did his bit yesterday and should be encouraged rather than criticised.

[The Cat]

Yesterday, in the second half, Long was constantly looking to make a break towards the Kingsland/Chapel corner and challenge Mings, their left-back. Mings was on a yellow and Long clearly had him for pace but although he was making the starting run, the ball was rarely played to him. This made me wonder about the fitness needed to make a very fast break over a 10 metre stretch time-and-time again. He was taken down (no penalty given) and was awarded a foul just outside the box for a free kick when the original contact looked just inside.

 

He did his bit yesterday and should be encouraged rather than criticised.

 

Agreed. We were in that corner and he created plenty of space for himself with runs which were routinely ignored by both Ward-Prowse and Davis in favour of an extra touch followed by a 5 yard pass inside to Wanyama.

 

Mings was clearly struggling with fitness in the last 10 minutes and pulled up at one point with slight cramp. Long obviously tried to exploit this and should have got a penalty, however we should have been quicker to attack that side in the final stages.

[Whitey Grandad]

Isgrove made Long look utter crap today. When ever he go the ball he tried to get at a player or go for a sensible pass. His cross near the end was awesome. Long just runs, that's all he does. I'm not saying Long is to blame but he is adding nothing as a winger/forward. Pelle has so much to do on his own. Hopefully this new guy will chip in with goals and attacking play like Mane has.

 

There were two occasions where Isgrove cut back on his right foot and had a chance to put in a cross but chose not to, and both times the move came to nothing.

[John Boy Saint]

Still winds me up that he gets caught offside so much, watching him yesterday he is wandering along behind the defensive line endlessly, when you watched Suarez last season against us he had a knack of running infront of the defender knowing the ball was coming over the top giving him a head start as the defender has to turn around to catch him.

I also think its becoming clear that his reputation for going down cheaply in the past does him any favours with the officials.

[angelman]

Still winds me up that he gets caught offside so much, watching him yesterday he is wandering along behind the defensive line endlessly, when you watched Suarez last season against us he had a knack of running infront of the defender knowing the ball was coming over the top giving him a head start as the defender has to turn around to catch him.

I also think its becoming clear that his reputation for going down cheaply in the past does him any favours with the officials.

 

This

[The9]

Yesterday, in the second half, Long was constantly looking to make a break towards the Kingsland/Chapel corner and challenge Mings, their left-back. Mings was on a yellow and Long clearly had him for pace but although he was making the starting run, the ball was rarely played to him. This made me wonder about the fitness needed to make a very fast break over a 10 metre stretch time-and-time again. He was taken down (no penalty given) and was awarded a foul just outside the box for a free kick when the original contact looked just inside.

 

He did his bit yesterday and should be encouraged rather than criticised.

 

His touch was utter toss yesterday, but he was no worse than those tangibly not being bothered, of which I could count about 10.

[Saint Benali]

There were two occasions where Isgrove cut back on his right foot and had a chance to put in a cross but chose not to, and both times the move came to nothing.

 

Still did more than long in the 10 minutes he was on.

 

Also I don't get this whole it's not Longs fault about the fee thing. It isn't any players fault. But yet people like Osvaldo and Ramirez who cost the same or less are criticised?

Long is a decent championship player but nowhere near good enough for a top half pl side. It's clear there are some who like him and some that don't. So this will run and run.

[The9]

As far as the "getting caught offside" thing, that is the fault of the ball-player as much as the runner - you make the run based on when you expect the ball is going to be released, not when it's actually played, as that leaves you flat-footed and usually unable to get to the pass.

 

So if the midfielder takes too long to play the pass, you're in an offside position. You can usually tell whose fault it is by the body language of the players afterwards.

[The9]

Agreed. We were in that corner and he created plenty of space for himself with runs which were routinely ignored by both Ward-Prowse and Davis in favour of an extra touch followed by a 5 yard pass inside to Wanyama. .

 

I call that "the Sadio". But when he stopped doing it, he became a lot more effective.

[The9]

the original contact looked just inside.

 

And was. Even managed to call it from the Itchen/Northam corner, all of 150 yards away.

[Toomer]

And was. Even managed to call it from the Itchen/Northam corner, all of 150 yards away.

We were sat more or less in line with it and the first contact was a good 2 yards inside the box.

[shurlock]

I call that "the Sadio". But when he stopped doing it, he became a lot more effective.

 

Why do you call it the Sadio? Makes no sense.

[John Boy Saint]

As far as the "getting caught offside" thing, that is the fault of the ball-player as much as the runner - you make the run based on when you expect the ball is going to be released, not when it's actually played, as that leaves you flat-footed and usually unable to get to the pass.

 

So if the midfielder takes too long to play the pass, you're in an offside position. You can usually tell whose fault it is by the body language of the players afterwards.

I sat watching him yesterday from a good vantage point in the Chapel, when the ball was in a position to play to him he was consistently stood behind the defensive line. So Fraser in Goal, Saints players building an attack, Ipswich players defending THEN Long then the Ipswich Goal keeper he rarely checked behind him to see that he was being played on it was almost like he was more reliant on the probability of the lino cocking up but the lino had already seen a red and white striped shirt in an offside position, so putting the flag up was an easy option if in doubt. The Midfielder is probably itching to play the ball to him but can see that he is offside so waits for him to step back on side. Like I said above watching Suarez last year from the same vantage point he would know a ball was coming in and was moving in a curve just in front of the static or shuffling sideways defence, as the ball came in the defence would move backwards facing the ball but Suarez was already facing forwards and accelerating having sprung the offside trap.

Shane Long has a lot of guile he is not a slow coach you would have thought after so many games for so many teams someone would have picked him up on this and trained it out of him.

[Graffito]

I sat watching him yesterday from a good vantage point in the Chapel, when the ball was in a position to play to him he was consistently stood behind the defensive line. So Fraser in Goal, Saints players building an attack, Ipswich players defending THEN Long then the Ipswich Goal keeper he rarely checked behind him to see that he was being played on it was almost like he was more reliant on the probability of the lino cocking up but the lino had already seen a red and white striped shirt in an offside position, so putting the flag up was an easy option if in doubt. The Midfielder is probably itching to play the ball to him but can see that he is offside so waits for him to step back on side. Like I said above watching Suarez last year from the same vantage point he would know a ball was coming in and was moving in a curve just in front of the static or shuffling sideways defence, as the ball came in the defence would move backwards facing the ball but Suarez was already facing forwards and accelerating having sprung the offside trap.

Shane Long has a lot of guile he is not a slow coach you would have thought after so many games for so many teams someone would have picked him up on this and trained it out of him.

 

The problem yesterday was Ipswich dropping deeper second half and Saints slow build up. It wasn't only Long that showed for the ball, usually over the top or down the channels, but also Pelle (to feet) and he often didn't get it either. If you recall, we carved them open a couple of times in the first half (Davis was one) when they were playing a higher line. All well and good blaming Long for not playing like Suarez (who does?), but if we can't play to his strengths then we are relying on his control in tight situations, which as we know, let's him down on occasions.

[Wes Tender]

Yesterday, in the second half, Long was constantly looking to make a break towards the Kingsland/Chapel corner and challenge Mings, their left-back. Mings was on a yellow and Long clearly had him for pace but although he was making the starting run, the ball was rarely played to him. This made me wonder about the fitness needed to make a very fast break over a 10 metre stretch time-and-time again. He was taken down (no penalty given) and was awarded a foul just outside the box for a free kick when the original contact looked just inside.

 

He did his bit yesterday and should be encouraged rather than criticised.

 

Agreed. Long was often in acres of pace out on the right and the few times he actually got the ball, he made good runs towards the byeline or into the box and should have had at least the one penalty, if not the two. I had a great view from the Chapel/Kingsland corner and that foul was definitely in the box. The linesman on that side and the referee were both totally inept for much of the game.

[Whitey Grandad]

Agreed. Long was often in acres of pace out on the right and the few times he actually got the ball, he made good runs towards the byeline or into the box and should have had at least the one penalty, if not the two. I had a great view from the Chapel/Kingsland corner and that foul was definitely in the box. The linesman on that side and the referee were both totally inept for much of the game.

 

I was watching them very closely for the second incident. The ref wasn't going to give the foul but the assistant looked across at the ref and then decided to flag for a foul. He didn't put the flag across his chest to indicate a penalty, but he looked back at the ref to see what he wanted to do, possibly to indicate that he was uncertain as to the exact location. This was one of those ooccasions where it may have started in the box but ended outside. In these instances where the ref hasn't given it but the assistant has then it is extremely unlikely that the ref will overrule him, which is why I called this a compromise decision, free kick outside the box.