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France: Charlie Hebdo shootings

pap

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Minty

Minty

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Posted (edited)

Another good piece IMO:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/11/charie-hebdo-danger-polarised-debate-paris-attacks

 

The cartoon that pap posted was very good too. In the same way that some of our older relatives think nothing of using terms and language which is now considered racist or sexist, so too different religions/countries/cultures move forward at different pace with regard to tolerating and accepting criticism/satire/mockery etc. As the article above discusses, the lines of acceptability are drawn and moved by society as a whole, in different places for different groups at different times. It is not for other societies to tell the world how ours should be, and vice versa, but where two societies overlap, it invariably needs a lot more thought and consideration of how that overlap may influence behaviour on either side.

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badgerx16

badgerx16

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Fox news, on the ball as ever :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-30773297

 

"An American terrorism commentator has apologised for describing Birmingham as a "Muslim-only city" where non-Muslims "don't go" during a Fox News interview.

 

Steven Emerson told the channel that in London "Muslim religious police" beat "anyone who doesn't dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire"."

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
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Really? It is hardly equal rights in the Bible...

 

Timothy 2:11-15

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

Peter 3:1

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands.

 

Colossians 3:18

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.

 

Titus 2:4-5

Teach the young women to be obedient to their own husbands

 

.........

 

There are hundreds of other examples of some bizarre "morality" in the Bible.

 

:lol: You can tell a married man wrote that lot....

Edited by doddisalegend
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sadoldgit

sadoldgit

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I've seen comments where Charlie Hebdo has been held responsible for what happened because of what they have published. Isn't that like saying that if a girl goes out wearing sexy clothes she deserves to get raped? Nothing gives anyone the right to march into an office an execute people at their workplace.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

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Today has been a very confusing day for the "Liberals" and the "Right Wing" of American Politics.

In the aftermath of the wave of revulsion from around the World and the Solidarity of the World's Leaders, the Americans were strangely absent. In the uprising of Opinion on the values of a Civilized Society and the value of free speech, the Western Press has written many pages of heartfelt review of what constitutes Freedom of Speech, and even of the pace of Society in becoming "Enlightened". All of which give some hope for the future.

 

Then the Murdoch Empire marches into the debate, like an Elephant in the room. First Murdoch himself tweets that 1.7 Billion people are responsible for the shootings in France. (God Bless JK Rowling for HER responses to that Evil Bile), then Mr Emerson decides to offend most of London and Birmingham and then cause the rest of the UK to ROFL.

 

Mr Emerson is an Expert. He ADVISES the US Government on "Terrorist Issues" and he spouts out that Birmingham is a No Go Zone and that Sharia Law is imposed in parts of London where Sharia Police BEAT people who do not conform. It would be a sad indictment of the idiocy of how US Public Opinion is swayed by their media in general and would have passed unnoticed but for a Mr Simon Ricketts.

 

Simon took to Twitter and used SATIRE to accuse Fox News of Lying. IN fact Mr Emerson admitted as much in his grovelling apology. The hashtag that Simon used has created one of the funniest days of **** taking that I have seen and Political Correctness has flown out of the Window faster than you could say Life of Brian. SATIRE has been used to ridicule a fundamental belief system of the Population of the USA.

 

It was very funny. The entire planet joined in overnight while America slept. David Cameron even called the man an idiot (which TBF must be the first time a British PM has EVER insulted someone from the Murdoch Empire). The photos of the Queen under Sharia Law were Satirical and funny. But they DID offend people. But hey, that's now OK as Je Suis Charlie we can offend with Satire.

 

But then the US woke up and WOW. Suddenly the concept of Satire, of Humour to "cheer the world up" after a weekend of horrors took a back seat. The US Liberal Elite started to Tweet offensive comments about Fox's support for the right wing. US Right Wingers posted their offence that people were being allowed to take the p1ss out of their Institution of The Truth.

 

And then to cap it all, Fox in a moment of what can only be termed Corporate Crass Stupidity decided to start threatening LEGAL ACTION against anyone who had Tweeted a joke at their expense.

 

In the space of 24 Hours, a "BASTION" of "Freedom of Speech" turned to Lawyers to stop people ridiculing their OFFENSIVE mistake.

 

They haven't (as yet) sacked the Idiot or the morons who supplied him the data. The US Government have not disassociated themselves from Mr Emerson, YET Murdoch DEMANDS that all Muslims should do this exact thing.

 

There is no justification for the horror of Paris. There was only ever Naivety or Heroism depending on what view you take of the true nature of the Global Threat of Extremists.

Comments like that of Soggy above are true opinions, but show that you learnt so little from "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland where European Christians murdered our own in the name of Religion or blew up Gay Pubs in Soho...... (and in answer to your post Soggy Anders Breivek committed far worse on young people in the name of Christianity because they chose to attend a weekend Political Camp)

 

The West is losing the Extremist war. These Terrorists were your Citizens, Radicalised by people that you gave Sanctuary to.

 

Allowing Idiots airtime to spout even more Lies and allowing Murdoch to go unchallenged for his Offensive Tweet just shows why you are not YET ready to deal with the problem of Disaffected Muslim Youths. Hell, you can't even deal with disaffected Youth full stop #gangs #knifecrime etc etc etc etc etc etc.

 

Yesterday was a good day for the People of Europe, standing up. Today, Fox News getting Lawyers involved has been a very bad day. You just showed the World Freedom of Speech doesn't mean sh1t to you when YOU don't like what is being said.

 

And in the words of Murdoch? "You are all responsible for this".

 

 

No you aren't but you get what it shows to Psychopaths on ALL sides

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
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I've seen comments where Charlie Hebdo has been held responsible for what happened because of what they have published. Isn't that like saying that if a girl goes out wearing sexy clothes she deserves to get raped? Nothing gives anyone the right to march into an office an execute people at their workplace.

 

Where has anyone said it does ?

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pap

pap

Posted
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Posted (edited)
Today has been a very confusing day for the "Liberals" and the "Right Wing" of American Politics.

In the aftermath of the wave of revulsion from around the World and the Solidarity of the World's Leaders, the Americans were strangely absent. In the uprising of Opinion on the values of a Civilized Society and the value of free speech, the Western Press has written many pages of heartfelt review of what constitutes Freedom of Speech, and even of the pace of Society in becoming "Enlightened". All of which give some hope for the future.

 

Then the Murdoch Empire marches into the debate, like an Elephant in the room. First Murdoch himself tweets that 1.7 Billion people are responsible for the shootings in France. (God Bless JK Rowling for HER responses to that Evil Bile), then Mr Emerson decides to offend most of London and Birmingham and then cause the rest of the UK to ROFL.

 

Mr Emerson is an Expert. He ADVISES the US Government on "Terrorist Issues" and he spouts out that Birmingham is a No Go Zone and that Sharia Law is imposed in parts of London where Sharia Police BEAT people who do not conform. It would be a sad indictment of the idiocy of how US Public Opinion is swayed by their media in general and would have passed unnoticed but for a Mr Simon Ricketts.

 

Simon took to Twitter and used SATIRE to accuse Fox News of Lying. IN fact Mr Emerson admitted as much in his grovelling apology. The hashtag that Simon used has created one of the funniest days of **** taking that I have seen and Political Correctness has flown out of the Window faster than you could say Life of Brian. SATIRE has been used to ridicule a fundamental belief system of the Population of the USA.

 

It was very funny. The entire planet joined in overnight while America slept. David Cameron even called the man an idiot (which TBF must be the first time a British PM has EVER insulted someone from the Murdoch Empire). The photos of the Queen under Sharia Law were Satirical and funny. But they DID offend people. But hey, that's now OK as Je Suis Charlie we can offend with Satire.

 

But then the US woke up and WOW. Suddenly the concept of Satire, of Humour to "cheer the world up" after a weekend of horrors took a back seat. The US Liberal Elite started to Tweet offensive comments about Fox's support for the right wing. US Right Wingers posted their offence that people were being allowed to take the p1ss out of their Institution of The Truth.

 

And then to cap it all, Fox in a moment of what can only be termed Corporate Crass Stupidity decided to start threatening LEGAL ACTION against anyone who had Tweeted a joke at their expense.

 

In the space of 24 Hours, a "BASTION" of "Freedom of Speech" turned to Lawyers to stop people ridiculing their OFFENSIVE mistake.

 

They haven't (as yet) sacked the Idiot or the morons who supplied him the data. The US Government have not disassociated themselves from Mr Emerson, YET Murdoch DEMANDS that all Muslims should do this exact thing.

 

There is no justification for the horror of Paris. There was only ever Naivety or Heroism depending on what view you take of the true nature of the Global Threat of Extremists.

Comments like that of Soggy above are true opinions, but show that you learnt so little from "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland where European Christians murdered our own in the name of Religion or blew up Gay Pubs in Soho...... (and in answer to your post Soggy Anders Breivek committed far worse on young people in the name of Christianity because they chose to attend a weekend Political Camp)

 

The West is losing the Extremist war. These Terrorists were your Citizens, Radicalised by people that you gave Sanctuary to.

 

Allowing Idiots airtime to spout even more Lies and allowing Murdoch to go unchallenged for his Offensive Tweet just shows why you are not YET ready to deal with the problem of Disaffected Muslim Youths. Hell, you can't even deal with disaffected Youth full stop #gangs #knifecrime etc etc etc etc etc etc.

 

Yesterday was a good day for the People of Europe, standing up. Today, Fox News getting Lawyers involved has been a very bad day. You just showed the World Freedom of Speech doesn't mean sh1t to you when YOU don't like what is being said.

 

And in the words of Murdoch? "You are all responsible for this".

 

 

No you aren't but you get what it shows to Psychopaths on ALL sides

Good post Phil. Don't agree with all of it, but the summary of the last couple days was great.

 

Not sure the lawyer thing is legit though.

 

http://m.thedrum.com/news/2015/01/12/parody-fox-news-twitter-account-threatens-social-media-users-posting-foxnewsfacts

Edited by pap
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Hatch

Hatch

Posted
Posted

Why are most of the newspaper or TV Channels not showing this image.

 

Last week it was all for freedom of speech and everyone waving pencils in the air and shouting 'je suis Charlie'

 

So what they mean, 'we will stand shoulder to shoulder with you, but you go first'

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Very much so. Great way to depict Muhammad.

 

Apparently the whole reason you aren't supposed to depict him was because he didn't like the way Christianity had become focussed on Jesus instead of God - he insisted to his followers that no images of him should be made so that they couldn't worship him. It was a very humble act. If he was around now I doubt if he give s hit if someone who wasn't a Muslim printed his picture.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Nobody appears to be printing it. The terrorists have won.

 

Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/charlies-back--and-controversial-as-ever--as-its-staff-take-aim-at-powerful-new-friends-9974065.html

 

Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/13/charlie-hebdo-cover-magazine-prophet-muhammad

 

Oddly its the right wing press who have wimped out, and the BBC.

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
Apparently the whole reason you aren't supposed to depict him was because he didn't like the way Christianity had become focussed on Jesus instead of God - he insisted to his followers that no images of him should be made so that they couldn't worship him. It was a very humble act. If he was around now I doubt if he give s hit if someone who wasn't a Muslim printed his picture.

 

Is that so? Good reason. Shame Jesus was such a ****ing bighead eh?

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Manuel

Manuel

Posted
Posted

Fair enough then, I couldn't find it on any web front pages, where they hold many pictures of other news events. Providing it's there somewhere then, even if you have to do a bit of digging.

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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

Posted
Posted

This week's edition of Charlie Hebdo is to show a cartoon depicting the Prophet Muhammad - which is said to have prompted the attack by Islamist gunmen.

The cartoon shows the Prophet holding a "Je suis Charlie" sign and the words "All is forgiven".

It has been published widely in advance by French media. Outside France, the Washington Post, Germany's Frankfurter Allgemeine, Corriere della Sera in Italy and the UK's Guardian are among publications to show the cartoon.

(An image incorporating the cartoon appears lower in this article. Some people may find it offensive)

 

Wimped out didn't they

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted

This is a good article in the Independent

 

"....The emergence of global legions of self-proclaimed “Charlies” – including centre-right politicians in France and right-wing or repressive foreign leaders that the magazine detests – has angered some of Charlie Hebdo’s surviving cartoonists. Willem (real name Bernard Holtrop), a 73-year-old Dutch cartoonist long based in France, said at the weekend that he wanted to “throw up on all those who suddenly say that they are our friends”. He went on to reel off a list of unwanted “Charlies” ranging from the Queen to Vladimir Putin, the Pope and the far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders. A Charlie Hebdo columnist, Iegor Gran, went further. He said that he hated the idea of the magazine becoming a short-hand term for Western democratic values. “Charlie has become a symbol,” he said. “But Charlie has always been anti-symbol. It has always mocked people who exploited symbols.”

 

Another cartoonist, Luz (Renald Luzier) said: “It is not easy to be supported by idiots such as Angela Merkel.”

 

The surviving members of the Charlie team were especially angry that politicians not usually known for their defence of “freedom” – from the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – joined the march “against hatred” in Paris on Sunday. They considered making large, unflattering caricatures of visiting dignitaries that they disliked and carrying them on the march. Only pressure of time prevented it, Luz said.

 

The scurrilous honour, and irreverent spirit, of Charlie Hebdo was saved by a pigeon. Just as President François Hollande came over to salute the magazine’s survivors and the relatives of those who had died, a small, discreet, white bird dropping fell on the shoulder of his blue suit. “It did us the world of good,” said the cartoonist, Jul (Julien Berjeaut). “We all paid homage to the President, saying ‘He’s unbeatable this Hollande. He even made us sick with laughter on a day like this.”

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Unbelievable Jeff

Unbelievable Jeff

Posted
Posted
This is a good article in the Independent

 

"....The emergence of global legions of self-proclaimed “Charlies” – including centre-right politicians in France and right-wing or repressive foreign leaders that the magazine detests – has angered some of Charlie Hebdo’s surviving cartoonists. Willem (real name Bernard Holtrop), a 73-year-old Dutch cartoonist long based in France, said at the weekend that he wanted to “throw up on all those who suddenly say that they are our friends”. He went on to reel off a list of unwanted “Charlies” ranging from the Queen to Vladimir Putin, the Pope and the far-right Dutch politician Geert Wilders. A Charlie Hebdo columnist, Iegor Gran, went further. He said that he hated the idea of the magazine becoming a short-hand term for Western democratic values. “Charlie has become a symbol,” he said. “But Charlie has always been anti-symbol. It has always mocked people who exploited symbols.”

 

Another cartoonist, Luz (Renald Luzier) said: “It is not easy to be supported by idiots such as Angela Merkel.”

 

The surviving members of the Charlie team were especially angry that politicians not usually known for their defence of “freedom” – from the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu – joined the march “against hatred” in Paris on Sunday. They considered making large, unflattering caricatures of visiting dignitaries that they disliked and carrying them on the march. Only pressure of time prevented it, Luz said.

 

The scurrilous honour, and irreverent spirit, of Charlie Hebdo was saved by a pigeon. Just as President François Hollande came over to salute the magazine’s survivors and the relatives of those who had died, a small, discreet, white bird dropping fell on the shoulder of his blue suit. “It did us the world of good,” said the cartoonist, Jul (Julien Berjeaut). “We all paid homage to the President, saying ‘He’s unbeatable this Hollande. He even made us sick with laughter on a day like this.”

 

Haha, brilliant. Glad to see this hasn't tainted their beliefs!

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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
Apparently the whole reason you aren't supposed to depict him was because he didn't like the way Christianity had become focussed on Jesus instead of God - he insisted to his followers that no images of him should be made so that they couldn't worship him. It was a very humble act. If he was around now I doubt if he give s hit if someone who wasn't a Muslim printed his picture.

Are you sure? I haven't read the Qur'an but it's my understanding that prohibition on depicting images of the Prophet started in the 16th century

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Are you sure? I haven't read the Qur'an but it's my understanding that prohibition on depicting images of the Prophet started in the 16th century

 

That's what a muslim said on Radio 2 earlier. Also said that in the 17th century no one was killed or injured for displaying the prophet and that many Muslims created images of him.

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ART

ART

Posted
Posted

Although not related to the Paris outrages, watching the following video and the future use of drones as Ambulances, really bring home the danger that drones pose in the hands of terrorists and criminals

 

[video=youtube;y-rEI4bezWc]

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SarniaSaint

SarniaSaint

Posted
Posted
Apparently the whole reason you aren't supposed to depict him was because he didn't like the way Christianity had become focussed on Jesus instead of God - he insisted to his followers that no images of him should be made so that they couldn't worship him. It was a very humble act. If he was around now I doubt if he give s hit if someone who wasn't a Muslim printed his picture.

 

Oh so a faceless dickhead then........just like those women (lol) you cover their face........

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OldNick

OldNick

Posted
Posted
Although not related to the Paris outrages, watching the following video and the future use of drones as Ambulances, really bring home the danger that drones pose in the hands of terrorists and criminals

 

[video=youtube;y-rEI4bezWc]

i saw on TV the other day that there a an exhibition in the US where they were selling such things. The terrorists have access to massive funds buying a load of these is not a problem to them
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Big Bad Bob

Big Bad Bob

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Posted
Although not related to the Paris outrages, watching the following video and the future use of drones as Ambulances, really bring home the danger that drones pose in the hands of terrorists and criminals

 

There was recent series on TV called Legend with Sean Bean, one of the episodes they had a Middle Eastern terrorist type blowing up a Crown Prince using a drone.

 

Whoosh.

 

Exactly..

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

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Posted (edited)

 

Bloke should already be in prison by now for tax evasion...one of Ma Taubira's greatest successes. Bloke is bankrupt, living off charity, owes tax in monumental proportions and yet the police found half a million big €s in cash at his house. French justice- worse than your average banana republic.

http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20140128-french-police-raid-dieudonne-premises-suspected-fraud-probe

Edited by Window Cleaner
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KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

Posted
Posted
Bloke should already be in prison by now for tax evasion...one of Ma Taubira's greatest successes. Bloke is bankrupt, living off charity, owes tax in monumental proportions and yet the police found half a million big €s in cash at his house. French justice- worse than your average banana republic.

http://www.english.rfi.fr/france/20140128-french-police-raid-dieudonne-premises-suspected-fraud-probe

 

Aye, don't get me wrong. From what I know of the bloke (not a HUGE amount by any stretch) he's not exactly a great dude.

 

But it is interesting that whilst everyone is banging the drum for the importance of Free Speech, a bloke is jailed for what he says. It's almost as Freedom of Speech doesn't equal Freedom from Consequence. It's interesting how Freedom of Speech is of utmost importance to defend, yet 'outsiders' are never quite afforded the same protection.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Aye, don't get me wrong. From what I know of the bloke (not a HUGE amount by any stretch) he's not exactly a great dude.

 

But it is interesting that whilst everyone is banging the drum for the importance of Free Speech, a bloke is jailed for what he says. It's almost as Freedom of Speech doesn't equal Freedom from Consequence. It's interesting how Freedom of Speech is of utmost importance to defend, yet 'outsiders' are never quite afforded the same protection.

 

His problem is that he's made an apology for terrorism...that's not included in free speech here, everyone knows it so if you do it you're farked.

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