Ouch so we didn't want Jack Cork enough?

[dubai_phil]

Interesting

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4025013.Cork__Watford_wanted_me_more_than_Saints/

 

Sanctimonious apology or new material for the anti-everything brigade

 

Cork: Watford wanted me more than Saints

 

Nicely constructed bombshell by the Echo

 

Tin Hats chaps, incoming!!!!!!!!

[um pahars]

Interesting

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4025013.Cork__Watford_wanted_me_more_than_Saints/

 

Sanctimonious apology or new material for the anti-everything brigade

 

Cork: Watford wanted me more than Saints

 

Nicely constructed bombshell by the Echo

 

Tin Hats chaps, incoming!!!!!!!!

 

Lordy, fugking lordy.

 

What comes next after saying "Last one out, turn off the lights".

 

That really is poor, even by our own poor as poor standards.

 

HHHHHHHHHHHHEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllppppppppppppppppp

[Saint in Paradise]

um pahars

Full Member

 

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 3,362

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seatbelt

Add Rudis remarks to the fact that Cork says that Watford wanted him more than Saints

and it really shows the total lack of man management skill at SMS.

 

Where did Cork say Watford wanted him more? Never heard that one before? Can't believe he would come out and say that.

[Fowllyd]

It does seem that the early-season love-in between the Echo and the club has soured. Back in August, and for several months afterwards, the Echo was looking like an extension of the OS. Then an article a few weeks back carried a lengthy and critical analysis of the whole Poortvliet/Wotte experiment; then there was the one about how this month would be the most important period for the club in living memory - and this time few punches were pulled. And now this one on Cork. It's hard to imagine any of those being published early in the season - so I can only assume that some kind of falling-out has happened.

 

And if what's reported here is true, then I can only echo Um's cry above!

[dubai_phil]

Lordy, fugking lordy.

 

What comes next after saying "Last one out, turn off the lights".

 

That really is poor, even by our own poor as poor standards.

 

HHHHHHHHHHHHEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllppppppppppppppppp

 

It would be interesting to see if this article elicits a response from the club. The Echo clearly have taken the gloves off with the Skacel piece and then this, but the snippets that were around at the weekend actually show this one may not be quite as how it has been "pitched".

 

Think I'll just keep the hat on and duck because without a response it is just about time for open warfare

[wild-saint]

Or more likely Cork doesnt want a hard time from saints in the future and puts the blame for his decision on someone elses shoulders.

[Ponty]

Oh come on chaps, we all know how new arrivals big up their reasons for joining, whether permanent or on loan. Read nothing into this.

[Saint Mikey]

Oh come on chaps, we all know how new arrivals big up their reasons for joining, whether permanent or on loan. Read nothing into this.

 

Agreed. Also, what exactly does he mean? What did Watford do, offer him more cash? Promised him a bevvie of beauties?

[Capel Saint]

Agreed. Also, what exactly does he mean? What did Watford do, offer him more cash? Promised him a bevvie of beauties?

 

I would assume that 'wanting him more' equates to offering him more money to play for them.

[Saint_clark]

I would assume that 'wanting him more' equates to offering him more money to play for them.

 

I always thought that the player only got his wages worth when he was on loan.

[INFLUENCED.COM]

He states we wanted to keep him but it seems we didn't suck him off enough, think this is more to do with location imo

[St Marco]

I always thought that the player only got his wages worth when he was on loan.

 

Yeah i always thought that too. Maybe they gave him some sort of indication that they would buy him when his loan runs out if he does well?

[del boy]

“Southampton said they wanted to keep me and I made some good friends there, so it was a hard choice because everyone at Southampton was good to me"

[John D]

Depends on the "wanted me more" - ie what does this mean? Does it mean that the Watford manager is more persuasive than Jan.

 

I guess it relates to any loan fee Chelsea wanted, or that Watford offered to pay 100% of his wages or a higher % than Saints could afford.

 

Either way, I'm sure we will never know the whole truth

[trousers]

Since when did a loanee get final say on which club they go to / stay at, as appears to be the case with Cork?

 

Ok, I accept one would expect players to have a say in where they go but given Cork was (reportedly) happy at Saints then surely the decision as to whether he stayed or went should have rested between Southampton FC and Chelsea FC on a purely footballing basis???

 

Fair enough, if he was unhappy at Saints then Chelsea would understandably want to help instigate a move elsewhere but that isn't a factor here.

 

Unless of course I'm taking the reports too much at face value and/or reading between the lines too much...

 

Or perhaps there are some more economies of truth being peddled....just for once....

[Topcat]

Rudy and others have made it quite clear that it is Lowe who is handling the Manager/DOF role and it is Lowe who talks to the players and their agents about their terms and future at the Club.

 

Cork was one of our better players this season and yet we failed to make him feel that he was really wanted. A shocking indictment of Lowe and Barclays should act and tell Saints that Lowe has to go.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If it's down to money,there's rumours that Watford are in severe financial difficulties.

 

Perhaps they thought these would be made worse by another relegation, and are therefore carefully spending a little bit extra on players that'll improve their situation. This is the sort of approach we took at the end of last season, with Wright,Lucketti and Perry.

 

Now we're a bit more "progressive" and "visonary", we take an altogether different approach.......

[krissyboy31]

It probably means that we didn't sit down and discuss the situation with the player/his agent/Chelsea and just took it for granted that the loan extension would be a formality. Watford obviously wanted the player and went out to sell themselves. That, the mess this club is in and the fact that and Watford's new manager and Cork know each other very well, made Cork's decision. All IMHO.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Rudy and others have made it quite clear that it is Lowe who is handling the Manager/DOF role and it is Lowe who talks to the players and their agents about their terms and future at the Club.

 

Cork was one of our better players this season and yet we failed to make him feel that he was really wanted. A shocking indictment of Lowe and Barclays should act and tell Saints that Lowe has to go.

 

Can you define "quite clear" by way of a link stating that Rudy and any other players have suggested that, of Lowe? Not quite so interested in his involvement with negotiating with players and agents as this is surely expected, but I would love to see any players stating he is the Manager/DoF.

[trousers]

It probably means that we didn't sit down and discuss the situation with the player/his agent/Chelsea and just took it for granted that the loan extension would be a formality. Watford obviously wanted the player and went out to sell themselves. That, the mess this club is in and the fact that and Watford's new manager and Cork know each other very well, made Cork's decision. All IMHO.

 

But why was it Cork's decision? As I mention above, surely it should be a matter between the respective club's management staff? (whilst, of course, taking on board any feedback from Cork)

 

Given there's not a lot to choose between both clubs (bottom half of CCC with little cash) then if I was Chelsea it would be more sensible to keep Cork at the same club that he started the season at in the interests of continuity and thus player development.

 

This has got an unpublicised REAL reason written all over it....in the same way we straight away smelled a rat over the Saga "international clearance (LoL)" affair....IMHO of course....

[Saint Billy]

It probably means that we didn't sit down and discuss the situation with the player/his agent/Chelsea and just took it for granted that the loan extension would be a formality. Watford obviously wanted the player and went out to sell themselves. That, the mess this club is in and the fact that and Watford's new manager and Cork know each other very well, made Cork's decision. All IMHO.

 

I suspect that this is closer to the truth.

[SFC1906]

um pahars

Full Member

 

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 3,362

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seatbelt

Add Rudis remarks to the fact that Cork says that Watford wanted him more than Saints

and it really shows the total lack of man management skill at SMS.

 

Where did Cork say Watford wanted him more? Never heard that one before? Can't believe he would come out and say that.

 

Uh, did you not actually read the link at the beginning of this thread????

[SaintRobbie]

I think the story is clutching at straws to be honest. But, the fact that The Echo knows it is appealling to its readers by having a go at the current regime and 'leadership' at the Club is a damning endictment of both the public and media confidence.

[saint1959]

In this article in Saturday's Independent (towards the end), Poortvliet says that Cork's leaving was down to money. So perhaps he is getting paid more at Watford, and this is his reason for saying that they wanted him more. Depressing stuff.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/saints-seek-inspiration-from-former-glories-1222897.html

[alpine_saint]

Rudy and others have made it quite clear that it is Lowe who is handling the Manager/DOF role and it is Lowe who talks to the players and their agents about their terms and future at the Club.

 

Cork was one of our better players this season and yet we failed to make him feel that he was really wanted. A shocking indictment of Lowe and Barclays should act and tell Saints that Lowe has to go.

 

Yup.

[londonsaint1604]

That's clearly ******** if you don't mind me saying. Cork went to Watford because they appointed the Chelsea reserves coach as their manager who he had worked with for years.

[Greenridge]

That's clearly ******** if you don't mind me saying. Cork went to Watford because they appointed the Chelsea reserves coach as their manager who he had worked with for years.

 

Genuine question, is that fact or your opinion?

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Depends on the "wanted me more" - ie what does this mean? Does it mean that the Watford manager is more persuasive than Jan.

 

I guess it relates to any loan fee Chelsea wanted, or that Watford offered to pay 100% of his wages or a higher % than Saints could afford.

 

Either way, I'm sure we will never know the whole truth

 

The Echo puts in quotes Watford were “a lot keener” , not just that they "wanted me more". That seems to quantify it a bit more.

[londonsaint1604]

Genuine question, is that fact or your opinion?

 

It's fact in as much as I read it somewhere (might have been the pink), and opinion because I chose to believe it, as it does make sense. It's academic now anyway because he's gone to Watford.

[Saint Bones]

Slow News Day ?

 

How does a club become a lot keener for a loan. "You ask a club - hey can we loan this guy" - They say yes/no and go from there.

 

He played pretty much all the time ? Perhaps he sees Watford as more of a chance to stay up / prestidge ?

 

Take this nothing more then getting his new fans onside.

[St. Jason]

He'd previous stated he liked it here and wanted the loan to continue of possible. But then a former Chelsea coach took him tot watford. You can read into it whatever you like really.

 

I've read this before "ex-chelsea coach was the levering tool in Cork joining Watford" this may well be true, all I would say is that Cork was on a season long loan deal to S****horpe last season, so would question the impact of said coach joining Watford. As I said, may be true or maybe they did want him more!!!

[Graffito]

In this article in Saturday's Independent (towards the end), Poortvliet says that Cork's leaving was down to money. So perhaps he is getting paid more at Watford, and this is his reason for saying that they wanted him more. Depressing stuff.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/fa-league-cups/saints-seek-inspiration-from-former-glories-1222897.html

 

I read this on Satrurday too. There are actually a couple of quite interesting comments by Poortvliet in there. For those that can't be bothered to read it all, the article says in relation to Cork:

 

It does not help when players are suddenly taken away from him – such as Jack Cork, on-loan from Chelsea who has suddenly moved to Watford. Poortvliet's hands were tied. "He was part of our team and now he's gone," he says. "And that was a question of money. We have a problem with that but hopefully the rest of the boys will stay." That final bit is said without too much conviction.

[ExSt Peter Saint]

This from the independent article:

 

Despite having a team whose average age hovers around 22, and is sometimes lower, Poortvliet is unfazed. He has built his reputation on developing young talent and is optimistic. "It can change our season," he says of the tie, the first time United have visited St Mary's since 2005, when they won in Southampton's send-off from the Premier League. "We are so close to winning games and we believe that when it happens once it can happen a lot of times. I'm sure this team is capable of beating everyone in the league we play in."

 

It does not help when players are suddenly taken away from him – such as Jack Cork, on-loan from Chelsea who has suddenly moved to Watford. Poortvliet's hands were tied. "He was part of our team and now he's gone," he says. "And that was a question of money. We have a problem with that but hopefully the rest of the boys will stay." That final bit is said without too much conviction.

 

"I came here and saw the quality and thought 'with this quality you have to do something special this year'," Poortvliet says of what he inherited at Southampton. "And then you start and you say 'ooh, this is a very heavy competition with a lot of physical teams, good playing teams, strong everywhere'. Now it's harder to achieve what you want. But we have the belief. We have to play with just young players and they have to do it together. Normally you have one or two young players in the team but we have to do it all at once. It needs time and it needs winning games."

 

The last paragraph shows how little he understood this league!!!

[West End Saint]

This from the independent article:

 

Despite having a team whose average age hovers around 22, and is sometimes lower, Poortvliet is unfazed. He has built his reputation on developing young talent and is optimistic. "It can change our season," he says of the tie, the first time United have visited St Mary's since 2005, when they won in Southampton's send-off from the Premier League. "We are so close to winning games and we believe that when it happens once it can happen a lot of times. I'm sure this team is capable of beating everyone in the league we play in."

 

It does not help when players are suddenly taken away from him – such as Jack Cork, on-loan from Chelsea who has suddenly moved to Watford. Poortvliet's hands were tied. "He was part of our team and now he's gone," he says. "And that was a question of money. We have a problem with that but hopefully the rest of the boys will stay." That final bit is said without too much conviction.

 

"I came here and saw the quality and thought 'with this quality you have to do something special this year'," Poortvliet says of what he inherited at Southampton. "And then you start and you say 'ooh, this is a very heavy competition with a lot of physical teams, good playing teams, strong everywhere'. Now it's harder to achieve what you want. But we have the belief. We have to play with just young players and they have to do it together. Normally you have one or two young players in the team but we have to do it all at once. It needs time and it needs winning games."

 

The last paragraph shows how little he understood this league!!!

 

 

The about finding out how tough this league is once the season started sums it all up for me the Championship is the most competative league in Europe for my money how can Jan and Wupert not know that and not be prepared for it wether the comment about Watford wanting Cork more is true or not it is fair to say we have been ill prepared and have appalling man management and Jan is not making the decision on what players play or stay it is all financial and we are f u c k e d

[ALWAYS_SFC]

More evidence that the Board and management team are stupid

or maybe its just mr ego calling all the shots.

[trousers]

Jan Poortvliet

It does not help when players are suddenly taken away from him – such as Jack Cork, on-loan from Chelsea who has suddenly moved to Watford. Poortvliet's hands were tied. "He was part of our team and now he's gone," he says. "And that was a question of money."

 

saintsfc.co.uk

Saints were keen to extend Cork's loan, following the 19-year old's valuable contribution to the first half of the campaign at St. Mary's, but Cork's desire to work again with Watford boss Brendan Rodgers appears to have swung his decision.

So, who's telling the truth this time?

 

Was it:

 

(a) The OS ('it was nothing to do with money')

or

(b) Jan Poortvliet ('it was to do with money')

 

???????????????????????????????????????????

 

Anyone else getting fed up with all these half truths?

[buctootim]

Dear Mr Trousers.

I'm sorry the world isnt as black and white as you would like it. Sometimes players like to consider more than one factor in making a decision, and then, scandalously I know, dont always tell their clubs or the press the real reason for deciding to leave.

[trousers]

Dear Mr Trousers.

I'm sorry the world isnt as black and white as you would like it. Sometimes players like to consider more than one factor in making a decision, and then, scandalously I know, dont always tell their clubs or the press the real reason for deciding to leave.

 

Cheers. I knew there'd be a simple explanation (to match my intellect)

[Fan The Flames]

Anyone else getting fed up with all these half truths?

 

Totally, I don't look at the OS anymore.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

So, who's telling the truth this time?

 

Was it:

 

(a) The OS ('it was nothing to do with money')

or

(b) Jan Poortvliet ('it was to do with money')

 

???????????????????????????????????????????

 

Anyone else getting fed up with all these half truths?

 

 

Ignore Buctootim, Trousers - your point was very valid and yet he could only answer it with sarcasm, irony or whatever. Sometimes people are more interested in point scoring than debating.

Edited 7 January, 2009 by Fitzhugh Fella
getting Buctootim's name right - didn't want to upset him.

[buctootim]

Cheers. I knew there'd be a simple explanation (to match my intellect)

 

You and me both . Shame FF wasnt as sharp to see it for what it was intended.

[Sundance Beast]

Ignore Buctootim, Trousers - your point was very valid and yet he could only answer it with sarcasm, irony or whatever. Sometimes people are more interested in point scoring than debating.

 

Duncan, is it your new years resolution to come on and attack those who reply with a soupcon of irony and sarcasm and in turn add a much needed little zest to a very tired forum obsessed with Lowe?

 

Buctootim made a very valid point and most footballers will be guarded about their reasons for leaving simply because the sport is so incestous you don't want to burn your bridges - Jermain Defoe being a case in point. So I doubt you would get the real reason if you interviewed Cork yourself unless you were a very close confidante.

 

Is it very black and white your reasons for resolving to ignore your previous resolve to stop posting? If you are going to adopt this sort of sanctimonious approach may I respectfully suggest your time may be better spent working on publishing more fodder for dusty and unloved coffee tables.

[Deppo]

Once again Beanfeast tries to look clever and ****s it up.

[Delmary]

Duncan, is it your new years resolution to come on and attack those who reply with a soupcon of irony and sarcasm and in turn add a much needed little zest to a very tired forum obsessed with Lowe?

 

Buctootim made a very valid point and most footballers will be guarded about their reasons for leaving simply because the sport is so incestous you don't want to burn your bridges - Jermain Defoe being a case in point. So I doubt you would get the real reason if you interviewed Cork yourself unless you were a very close confidante.

 

Is it very black and white your reasons for resolving to ignore your previous resolve to stop posting? If you are going to adopt this sort of sanctimonious approach may I respectfully suggest your time may be better spent working on publishing more fodder for dusty and unloved coffee tables.

Big chip on shoulder.

[Jonnyboy]

Cork = Traitor

 

Skacel = Overpaid Traitor

[Fan The Flames]

Duncan, is it your new years resolution to come on and attack those who reply with a soupcon of irony and sarcasm and in turn add a much needed little zest to a very tired forum obsessed with Lowe?

 

Buctootim made a very valid point and most footballers will be guarded about their reasons for leaving simply because the sport is so incestous you don't want to burn your bridges - Jermain Defoe being a case in point. So I doubt you would get the real reason if you interviewed Cork yourself unless you were a very close confidante.

 

Is it very black and white your reasons for resolving to ignore your previous resolve to stop posting? If you are going to adopt this sort of sanctimonious approach may I respectfully suggest your time may be better spent working on publishing more fodder for dusty and unloved coffee tables.

 

Whats a soupcon, is it where you try and sell off oxtail as mulligatawny.

 

Anyway years after I have forgotton you ever exisited I will be reaching for a FF book.

[um pahars]

I respectfully suggest your time may be better spent working on publishing more fodder for dusty and unloved coffee tables.

 

Reading the publishers details of In That Number is considerably more interesting than reading your poorly constructed diatribes.

 

In fact I'd rather read, re read and then re read again the ISBN than listen to you.

 

Compared to Haliology and their contributions to this Club, you're a complete irrelevence.

 

But do keep posting as you always provide us with fun material to rib (Mods, I'm still up for paying his 5 quid).

[Mole]

Duncan, is it your new years resolution to come on and attack those who reply with a soupcon of irony and sarcasm and in turn add a much needed little zest to a very tired forum obsessed with Lowe?

 

Talk about pots and kettles. Anyone would think you're getting bitter because the rat pack is completely isolated from normal fans. That said please keep it up because you are doing a fanastic job at turning even more fans against Lowe.

Edited 8 January, 2009 by Mole

[LaptopSaint]

This from the independent article:

 

Despite having a team whose average age hovers around 22, and is sometimes lower, Poortvliet is unfazed. He has built his reputation on developing young talent and is optimistic. "It can change our season," he says of the tie, the first time United have visited St Mary's since 2005, when they won in Southampton's send-off from the Premier League. "We are so close to winning games and we believe that when it happens once it can happen a lot of times. I'm sure this team is capable of beating everyone in the league we play in."

 

It does not help when players are suddenly taken away from him – such as Jack Cork, on-loan from Chelsea who has suddenly moved to Watford. Poortvliet's hands were tied. "He was part of our team and now he's gone," he says. "And that was a question of money. We have a problem with that but hopefully the rest of the boys will stay." That final bit is said without too much conviction.

 

"I came here and saw the quality and thought 'with this quality you have to do something special this year'," Poortvliet says of what he inherited at Southampton. "And then you start and you say 'ooh, this is a very heavy competition with a lot of physical teams, good playing teams, strong everywhere'. Now it's harder to achieve what you want. But we have the belief. We have to play with just young players and they have to do it together. Normally you have one or two young players in the team but we have to do it all at once. It needs time and it needs winning games."

 

The last paragraph shows how little he understood this league!!!

 

 

Meanwhile, back on topic....

 

I've just read the whole piece and he comes across as a really decent bloke. But there's no getting away from it. That last paragraph sounds laughably naive.

These Boysh look really special. We're going to get promoted. Ach, wait a minute. Everybody elshe is bigger than us. We're schcrewed.

[St Landrew]

I'm as keen to remove the present incumbents from the Saints Boardroom as anyone else, but this says very little to me. Unless the full story paints a worse picture. The article which says more about the current Saints crisis [and let's not delude ourselves it isn't...] is The Independent one, shown above in Post 34.