Southampton's signings over the past decade

[le_tiss]

Shamelessly stolen from another forum - obvs doesn't take into account loans, who we sold, wages etc.

 

 

2020/21 (Spent £34m; Recouped £22m; Net Spend £12m)

Kyle Walker-Peters ... Tottenham ... £12m

Ibrahima Diallo ... Brest ... £11m

Mohammed Salisu ... Real Valladolid ... £11m

 

2019/20 (Spent £49m; Recouped £21m; Net Spend £28m

Danny Ings ... Liverpool ... £20m

Che Adams ... Birmingham ... £15m

Moussa Djenepo ... Standard Liege ... £14m

 

2018/19 (Spent £57m; Recouped £23m; Net Spend £34m)

Jannik Vestergaard ... Monchengladbach ... £20m

Mohamed Elyounoussi ... Basel ... £16m

Angus Gunn ... Man City ... £14m

Stuart Armstrong ... Celtic ... £7m

 

2017/18 (Spent £64m; Recouped £91m; Net Spend -£27m)

Guido Carrillo ... Monaco ... £19m

Wesley Hoedt ... Lazio ... £15m

Mario Lemina ... Juventus ... £15m

Jan Bednarek ... Lech Poznan ... £5m

 

2016/17 (Spent £57m; Recouped £67m; Net Spend -£10m)

Sofiane Boufal ... Lille ... £16m

Manolo Gabbiadini ... Napoli ... £14m

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg ... Bayern Munich ... £13m

Nathan Redmond ... Norwich ... £10m

Alex McCarthy ... Crystal Pal ... £4m

 

2015/16 (Spent £45m; Recouped £39m; Net Spend £6m)

Virgil Van Dijk ... Celtic ... £13m

Jordy Clasie ... Feyenoord ... £12m

Juanmi ... Malaga ... £5m

Oriol Romeu ... Chelsea ... £5m

Cedric Soares ... Sp Lisbon ... £5m

Charlie Austin ... QPR ... £4m

Cuco Martina ... Twente ... £1m

 

2014/15 (Spent £70m; Recouped £99m; Net Spend -£29m)

Shane Long ... Hull ... £12m

Sadio Mane ... RB Salzburg ... £12m

Dusan Tadic ... Twente ... £11m

Ryan Bertrand ... Chelsea ... £10m

Fraser Forster ... Celtic ... £10m

Graziano Pelle ... Feyenoord ... £9m

Florin Gardos ... Steaua ... £6m

 

2013/14 (Spent £37m; Recouped £4m; Net Spend £33m)

Dani Osvaldo ... Roma ... £15m

Victor Wanyama ... Celtic ... £13m

Dejan Lovren ... Lyon ... £9m

 

2012/13 (Spent £31m; Recouped £0; Net Spend £31m)

Gaston Ramirez ... Bologna ... £12m

Jay Rodriguez ... Burnley ... £8m

Vegard Forren ... Molde ... £4m

Emmanuel Mayuka ... Young Boys ... £3m

Maya Yoshida ... VVV ... £3m

Steven Davis ... Rangers ... £1m

 

2011/12 (Spent £7m; Recouped £16m; Net Spend -£9m)

Danny Fox ... Burnley ... £2m

Billy Sharp ... Doncaster ... £2m

Jack Cork ... Chelsea ... £1m

Steve de Ridder ... De Graafschap £1m

Jos Hooiveld ... Celtic ... £1m

 

TOTAL SPENT £441m

TOTAL RECOUPED £382m

TOTAL NET SPEND £59m

Edited 11 June, 2021 by le_tiss

[Convict Colony]

Thought the first lines were going to be shit

[Hodgey]

17-19 the problem - 2 disasterous transfer years - effectively wasted all the £60m VVD money and saddled ourselves with another c £50m of wasted wages. The rest overall to be fair the expected hits and misses. Also add on a fair few million in manager compensation and agents / signing on.

Also puts paid to the myth that we don’t net spend - as clearly we have although nowhere near as much as some.

Biggest worry now is looking at current squad you don’t see many profitable assets and the few we have are basically irreplaceable and if sold would see us go down.

[Wurzel]

Even when only comparing transfers made during the same seasons there are some - with the benefit of hindsight - strange disparities between fees paid for some players. Thinking more about the value we got out of players than their value at the time.

2012 Yoshida cosat less than Forren

2014 Pelle cost less than Long

2015 Romeu cost the same as Juanmi and less than half the cost of Clasie

2017 Everyone cost less than Carillo

Guess ever club in the country gets some right and some wrong.

Edited 12 June, 2021 by Wurzel

[MarkSFC]

Just now, Wurzel said:

Even when only comparing transfers made during the same seasons there are some - with the benefit of hindsight - strange disparities between fees paid for some players

2012 Yoshida cosat less than Forren

2014 Pelle cost less than Long

2015 Romeu cost the same as Juanmi and less than half the cost of Clasie

2017 Everyone cost less than Carillo

Guess ever club in the country gets some right and some wrong.

Made me laugh!!

[Lord Duckhunter]

I was in Malaga around the time we signed Juanmi and was drinking with some ex pats who had season tickets there. They were absolutely raving about him, really did think he’d be a good signing. 

[nta786]

18 hours ago, Hodgey said:

Also puts paid to the myth that we don’t net spend - as clearly we have although nowhere near as much as some.

In past 10 years to have a net spend of £60m is pretty low in my opinion. 
I’d say there are at least 15 more clubs in those 10 years who have a higher net spend than us (albeit some might be in the Championship)

Our record transfer in comparison to many other clubs is also small, again don’t have the number but I’d say there are 15-20 more teams who’ve spent more on one player than us 

Assuming we’ve received £90m on average last 8 seasons, that’s £720m. How ridiculous are our wages for us that we’re just so handicapped in terms of our expenditure?!

[nta786]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I was in Malaga around the time we signed Juanmi and was drinking with some ex pats who had season tickets there. They were absolutely raving about him, really did think he’d be a good signing. 

Yeah I’d hope he would be too. 
But I don’t mind those low fee, low wage and low risk transfers every season or so.

They could be like Bednarek and if it doesn’t work out then easy to get rid.

[S-Clarke]

On 11/06/2021 at 19:13, Hodgey said:

17-19 the problem - 2 disasterous transfer years - effectively wasted all the £60m VVD money and saddled ourselves with another c £50m of wasted wages. The rest overall to be fair the expected hits and misses. Also add on a fair few million in manager compensation and agents / signing on.

Also puts paid to the myth that we don’t net spend - as clearly we have although nowhere near as much as some.

Biggest worry now is looking at current squad you don’t see many profitable assets and the few we have are basically irreplaceable and if sold would see us go down.

Yep, agreed. Although I'd probably start back in 2016, that was equally terrible. It's impossible to get every transfer right, even in the window where we got Mane/Tadic/Pelle etc we still signed Gardos. 

But the problem in those windows is that the big signings we made were disasters, there wasn't a good one. They've even been let go on free or loaned out since. We paid them a fortune so no one else wants them and we then couldn't improve the squad further because of that. Sorry cycle really, kind of ties in with Ross Wilson taking over the show.

Things seem to be getting a bit better now. Still a bit early to say, but positive signs in the last two windows.

Edited 12 June, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

On 12/06/2021 at 13:50, nta786 said:

In past 10 years to have a net spend of £60m is pretty low in my opinion. 
I’d say there are at least 15 more clubs in those 10 years who have a higher net spend than us (albeit some might be in the Championship)

Our record transfer in comparison to many other clubs is also small, again don’t have the number but I’d say there are 15-20 more teams who’ve spent more on one player than us 

Assuming we’ve received £90m on average last 8 seasons, that’s £720m. How ridiculous are our wages for us that we’re just so handicapped in terms of our expenditure?!

You may think that net spend is low but the reality is that as a club we just don’t make a lot of money that we can afford to buy lots of players. We’re on the lower end for commercial revenue for Premier league teams meaning profits are heavily affected by league position, number of games aired on TV and player sales.

The pandemic has heavily affected match day revenue and the messes with the LD Sports sponsor and Under Armour have also hindered us. Add on to that a relatively large wage bill due to poor high-cost signings, having to sign their replacements while they are still under contract and the overall increase in contract values with wages pushed up by agents due to the increased money in the league and you can see why we would be struggling.

To try and add some sort of a benchmark for people - our best year for profits without accounting for player trading was 2016-17 under Puel where we made profits of around £31.5m. This was due to it being the first year of the new TV contract, us getting 8^th in the league, reaching a cup final and also being in the Europa League group stages. All of that and we only made enough money that season to buy a player like Buendia in todays prices, hence the reliance on player sales normally to improve the team. During those best years I think we were averaging about £11m profit a season which all ended up going back into players trading eventually. The past couple of seasons we’ve even been making a loss pre-player trading.

This is also the reason why people saying we need investment makes me chuckle a bit. Any substantial money put into the club by an owner would not be easy to get back without us getting into Europe consistently and with the ‘Big 6’ not to mention the likes of Everton, Leicester and West Ham challenging for those positions even getting into the new (presumably less monetarily rewarding) Europa Conference would be a huge ask for us. It's less a request for 'investment' and more a request for 'free money'.

Hopefully with the new shirt suppliers and sponsor sorted if we can also get the wage bill down by moving on players such as Hoedt, Lemina, Elyounoussi, Gunn, Long etc…and also getting fans back in the stadiums then finances should be looking a little rosier in the next 12 months. Anyone thinking we will be going out and spending £30m on a new player will be severely disappointed though I think as we are just not in a position to do that unless we get a new owner in who is happy to lose their money.

As an aside, for anyone actually interested in the actual financials of Saints I strongly recommend checking out the annual reports on the Companies House website where you can see for yourself things like yearly turnover, operating costs, overall wage values and pre/post player trading profits. Really helps to give an overall understanding of where we actually are as a club currently.

[RedArmy]

Best part of £100m down the shitter on Elyonoussi, Gunn, Lemina, Hoedt, Carrillo and Boufal. 
 

Could have bought Soyuncu, Pereira, Tielemans and Maddison. 

[Toussaint]

8 hours ago, RedArmy said:

Best part of £100m down the shitter on Elyonoussi, Gunn, Lemina, Hoedt, Carrillo and Boufal. 
 

Could have bought Soyuncu, Pereira, Tielemans and Maddison. 

You have to bear in mind we are not that attractive to very ambitious upwardly mobile players. Maddission for one was just not interested in us. Unfortunately we are in a bit of a mediocrity trap. In the past players would sign just to play for Koeman, Poch, Strachan, Hoddle and so on. We just don't have that draw with Ralph. They may even have signed for the Europa league, what do we offer now to players like the ones you mention? Plus i expect they are on better wages.

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

You have to bear in mind we are not that attractive to very ambitious upwardly mobile players. Maddission for one was just not interested in us. Unfortunately we are in a bit of a mediocrity trap. In the past players would sign just to play for Koeman, Poch, Strachan, Hoddle and so on. We just don't have that draw with Ralph. They may even have signed for the Europa league, what do we offer now to players like the ones you mention? Plus i expect they are on better wages.

Ralph is a much bigger draw than Poch was when he managed us. Poch had done basically nothing before joining us, Ralph finished second in the German league and managed in the CL. Similarly, Koeman was a big name in football but not in management. Coming off the back of RB Leipzig is a lot more prestigious than Feyenoord or Espanyol. It has nothing to do with manager pulling power, it's mostly financial issues and poor signings when we do spend big. Maddison was even at our training pitch so was clearly happy to join and then Leicester just offered a lot more money than we could.

[Toussaint]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

Ralph is a much bigger draw than Poch was when he managed us. Poch had done basically nothing before joining us, Ralph finished second in the German league and managed in the CL. Similarly, Koeman was a big name in football but not in management. Coming off the back of RB Leipzig is a lot more prestigious than Feyenoord or Espanyol. It has nothing to do with manager pulling power, it's mostly financial issues and poor signings when we do spend big. Maddison was even at our training pitch so was clearly happy to join and then Leicester just offered a lot more money than we could.

Manager pulling power is a factor, especially with someone Koeman. Whatever Ralphs stock was when he joined us will be a lot lower now, in my opinion.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Manager pulling power is a factor, especially with someone Koeman. Whatever Ralphs stock was when he joined us will be a lot lower now, in my opinion.

I don't think Koeman had much pulling power personally, we were his first major job outside of Holland. Club pulling power maybe as our squad was better but as soon as Koeman had any reasonable stock he left us, same with Poch, we never made signings based off their names and if you think about it we never brought in any highly sort after big names under either of them. We made sensible good signings.

[pimpin4rizeal]

49 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think Koeman had much pulling power personally, we were his first major job outside of Holland. Club pulling power maybe as our squad was better but as soon as Koeman had any reasonable stock he left us, same with Poch, we never made signings based off their names and if you think about it we never brought in any highly sort after big names under either of them. We made sensible good signings.

Koeman used the league he knew to make signings.. and it worked a treat.. players like pelle and tadic he knew all about..

shame Ralph hasn’t really done that approach I’m sure there’s some real quality in the bundesliga that would do a great job for us 

[saintsdan]

54 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think Koeman had much pulling power personally, we were his first major job outside of Holland. Club pulling power maybe as our squad was better but as soon as Koeman had any reasonable stock he left us, same with Poch, we never made signings based off their names and if you think about it we never brought in any highly sort after big names under either of them. We made sensible good signings.

Apart from Valencia and Benfica?

[FairWeather]

 

1 hour ago, TWar said:

I don't think Koeman had much pulling power personally

Not how I remember it. If you read this from the club it sounds like it was all about Koeman from Alderweireld's point of view. (I can't imagine we would have got him otherwise)

 

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2014-09-02/alderweireld-saints-the-right-step

Edited 14 June, 2021 by FairWeather

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

I don't think Koeman had much pulling power personally, we were his first major job outside of Holland. 

What a load of pony. Factually incorrect as well. First major job outside Holland.  Lol 
 

Toby specifically said he signed on loan purely becaise he wanted to play for Ronald Koeman. Pelle signed because Koeman was manager, and I’d imagine Tadic as well. You don’t half come out with some shite. 

Edited 14 June, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[RedArmy]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Plus i expect they are on better wages.

That is the problem, not what players think of Ralph or the club. They want paying. 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Koeman used the league he knew to make signings.. and it worked a treat.. players like pelle and tadic he knew all about..

shame Ralph hasn’t really done that approach I’m sure there’s some real quality in the bundesliga that would do a great job for us 

I think he made good signings because of his knowledge base more than his "pull". He was at Valencia for one year, struggled to 15th with a side, and was sacked. His next job was with AZ Alkmaar so not exactly a storming success which raised his profile. He did ok with Benfica but that is a much weaker league than the premier league and again only for one year.

Maybe it is unfair for me to say his first "major job" outside of Holland owing to his stint in the Portuguese league and his failed stint in Spain, but we were certainly his first role that actually upped his status and his background was certainly a lot less impressive than Ralphs. 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Koeman used the league he knew to make signings.. and it worked a treat.. players like pelle and tadic he knew all about..

shame Ralph hasn’t really done that approach I’m sure there’s some real quality in the bundesliga that would do a great job for us 

Yeah I think this is more it, Koeman was able to sign the best from a league he knew as he was, relatively speaking, more backed financially to make signings, he did have a lot to replace.

[saint1977]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

You have to bear in mind we are not that attractive to very ambitious upwardly mobile players. Maddission for one was just not interested in us. Unfortunately we are in a bit of a mediocrity trap. In the past players would sign just to play for Koeman, Poch, Strachan, Hoddle and so on. We just don't have that draw with Ralph. They may even have signed for the Europa league, what do we offer now to players like the ones you mention? Plus i expect they are on better wages.

Maddison was interested but Leicester came in, Midlands lad. And frankly Leicester’s vision was a hell of a lot more compelling than Les Reed’s. Lemina was a fairly ambitious signing at the time but due diligence would have shown a lack of consistency and focus. Hoedt and Moi - eff knows, Moi’s record in Switzerland was good but I’ve never seen PL raw attributes there. Hoedt wasn’t showing the trajectory that was worth anywhere near the fee paid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Hoedt

Squad players at Lazio should not be going for premium fees, even a supporter knows that, let alone people that are allegedly football professionals. Gunn was stranger still when the club already had one keeper failing on huge wages (thanks to an inexplicable second contract extension) and another with a new deal. Why was he signed? Very strange and unexplainable transfer that has wasted more money. Carrillo - Les has been appearing regularly on Football Fan Cast and apparently it’s Pellegrino’s fault as he wanted him and then didn’t play him enough. Nothing to do with not seeing that the worst ever manager in club history needing sacking months ago or that even a Northam ST holder after 13 pints of Carling could see Carrillo was never a £2m let alone £20m player. Apparently also Osvaldo was a gift to Poch and nothing to do with Reed. At least Parrish admitted he cocked up on De Boer, who was equally unsuitable as Pellegrino, and sacked him after 4 games. 

Any board with their eye vaguely on the ball would have sacked Les after the Jan 2017 window debacle, I wasn’t a fan of Claude but Les shat on him then and again in the summer. 

The recent signings have been better but because the names above were abject disasters, it’s meant there’s no Mane, Lovren funds etc to reinvest. Even the better signings from that period - Stu, Bednarek, Vesty - aren’t going to make a great surplus but do help the team. Redmond is even stevens - not too bad for that number of games and a POTS award, but unlikely to make a net profit and terrible last season.

Edited 14 June, 2021 by saint1977

[SKD]

7 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think he made good signings because of his knowledge base more than his "pull". He was at Valencia for one year, struggled to 15th with a side, and was sacked. His next job was with AZ Alkmaar so not exactly a storming success which raised his profile. He did ok with Benfica but that is a much weaker league than the premier league and again only for one year.

Maybe it is unfair for me to say his first "major job" outside of Holland owing to his stint in the Portuguese league and his failed stint in Spain, but we were certainly his first role that actually upped his status and his background was certainly a lot less impressive than Ralphs. 

More nonsense. 

If I remember rightly, koeman was in the running for the Dutch job just before joining us. He done a decent job at Feyernoord and is obviously a huge name, who’d managed some big clubs. Some successfully, some not so successfully. 

Ralph had a good season at Red Bull, who had a very good team. Had Ralph achieved the same at someone other than RB, no way would he get the plaudits he does. Again, that’s because RB are a hipster club. 

Koeman was much more impressive than Ralph. 

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, SKD said:

More nonsense. 

If I remember rightly, koeman was in the running for the Dutch job just before joining us. He done a decent job at Feyernoord and is obviously a huge name, who’d managed some big clubs. Some successfully, some not so successfully. 

Ralph had a good season at Red Bull, who had a very good team. Had Ralph achieved the same at someone other than RB, no way would he get the plaudits he does. Again, that’s because RB are a hipster club. 

Koeman was much more impressive than Ralph. 

An international job is not as impressive as a club job. That's why people like Martinez and Southgate manage top international sides when they failed in club management. Also look at the current dutch manager, Frank De Boer, do you know his club legacy? Remember palace? He had one of the worst stints the prem has ever seen, dropped down to the MLS, and then got the international job. Hardly a mark of quality.

Feyenoord are not a huge club, no where near the size of RB Leipzig. No way "a decent season in the dutch league" is as impressive as "second in the german league". Ralph took a newly promoted team to 2nd in German league above Dortmund. Koeman hadn't managed some big names, he managed one side in the top 5 leagues and was sacked after less than a year. No way in hell Koeman had better pedigree than Ralph did when they both joined, absolute nonsense.

Also a club isn't "hipster" because you are too behind on football to have heard of them. A lot has changed in the last decade or so, might be worth paying a little more attention.

Edited 14 June, 2021 by TWar

[Toussaint]

26 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think he made good signings because of his knowledge base more than his "pull". He was at Valencia for one year, struggled to 15th with a side, and was sacked. His next job was with AZ Alkmaar so not exactly a storming success which raised his profile. He did ok with Benfica but that is a much weaker league than the premier league and again only for one year.

Maybe it is unfair for me to say his first "major job" outside of Holland owing to his stint in the Portuguese league and his failed stint in Spain, but we were certainly his first role that actually upped his status and his background was certainly a lot less impressive than Ralphs. 

You have to think beyond management success, it's not the only factor. Players do like to play for managers who were themselves great players, I've heard many say this  and it stands to reason. For someone my age Koeman was a legend, the Dutch national team he played for were very charismatic and glamorous, his club career was exceptional also. As were Poch's Argentina. That's why I originally mentioned Strachan and Hoddle, also playing legends. You may think of Hughes as the exception, but he came here with a very tarnished management reputation. I do not remember Ralph as a player, I wasn't even aware of him before he joined us. I look back on the RK era very fondly.

Edited 14 June, 2021 by Toussaint

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

You have to think beyond management success, it's not the only factor. Players do like to play for managers who were themselves great players, I've heard many say this  and it stands to reason. For someone my age Koeman was a legend, the Dutch national team he played for were very charismatic and glamorous, his club career was exceptional also. As were Poch's Argentina. That's why I originally mentioned Strachan and Hoddle, alo playing legends. You may think of Hughes as the exception, but he came here with a very tarnished management reputation. I do not remember Ralph as a player, I wasn't even aware of him before he joined us. I look back on the RK era very fondly.

That is fair, undoubtedly being a big name in football yields positive results even if your managerial career hasn't been that impressive. I do think Ralph is also a big name in football, however, what he did with Leipzig was very impressive. I think Koeman is a big name in Holland which helped a lot with Pelle, Tadic, and Alderweireld (who had previously played there and got to know Koemans managing), I think Ralph is a big name in germany so it's a shame we haven't used that market more. Would like to see us go for Lookman, for instance, who Ralph has managed before very successfully.

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

An international job is not as impressive as a club job. That's why people like Martinez and Southgate manager top international sides when they failed in club management. Also look at the current dutch manager, Frank De Boer, do you know his club legacy? Remember palace? He had one of the worst stints the prem has ever seen, dropped down to the MLS, and then got the international job. Hardly a mark of quality.

Feyenoord are not a huge club, no where near the size of RB Leipzig. No way "a decent season in the dutch league" is as impressive as "second in the german league". Ralph took a newly promoted team to 2nd in German league above Dortmund. Koeman hadn't managed some big names, he managed one side in the top 5 leagues and was sacked after less than a year. No way in hell Koeman had better pedigree than Ralph did when they both joined, absolute nonsense.

LOL. Showing your age now buddy.
 

At the point where Koeman left Feyenoord, RB were in second division of the German league having never played in the top flight. 

Years of heavy investment and a very good scouting network have of course made them a better club now, but absolutely they are not bigger than Feyenoord. 
 

If you don’t think that this list of clubs is more impressive than a couple of lower league German no marks and Red Bull, who had a fantastic team (as per comments above - money and scouting network), then I’m sorry, but you’re just being foolish. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

LOL. Showing your age now buddy.
 

At the point where Koeman left Feyenoord, RB were in second division of the German league having never played in the top flight. 

Years of heavy investment and a very good scouting network have of course made them a better club now, but absolutely they are not bigger than Feyenoord. 
 

If you don’t think that this list of clubs is more impressive than a couple of lower league German no marks and Red Bull, who had a fantastic team (as per comments above - money and scouting network), then I’m sorry, but you’re just being foolish. 

RB Leipzig are a powerhouse in European football, playing in one of the biggest leagues in Europe. Feyenoord are not.

You may not like that they are bigger now, but they are. If you heard we were signing RBL's manager last season, or Feyenoords which one would you be more excited about? Honestly? Nagelsmann or Dick Advocaat? You genuinely believe manager of RB Leipzig is a smaller job than manager of Feyenoord I don't know what to tell you, you've gone insane. 

[SKD]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

RB Leipzig are a powerhouse in European football, playing in one of the biggest leagues in Europe. Feyenoord are not.

You may not like that they are bigger now, but they are. If you heard we were signing RBL's manager last season, or Feyenoords which one would you be more excited about? Honestly? Nagelsmann or Dick Advocaat? You genuinely believe manager of RB Leipzig is a smaller job than manager of Feyenoord I don't know what to tell you, you've gone insane. 

yes, perhaps now they are a better club. I practically said that in my response. 

But Ralph hasn’t managed them for 3 years and in those 3 years they’ve improved and become ‘bigger’. Although, still haven’t won anything of note. 

Before that, they had absolutely no history at all. 

Id honestly compare Ralph’s ‘success’ as that similar to the likes of Adkins with us and Wilder (excluding last season) at Sheff Utd. The only difference is they aren’t hipster names and don’t resemble klopp. 
 

Koeman done a significantly better job with us than Ralph has. 

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, SKD said:

yes, perhaps now they are a better club. I practically said that in my response. 

But Ralph hasn’t managed them for 3 years and in those 3 years they’ve improved and become ‘bigger’. Although, still haven’t won anything of note. 

Before that, they had absolutely no history at all. 

Id honestly compare Ralph’s ‘success’ as that similar to the likes of Adkins with us and Wilder (excluding last season) at Sheff Utd. The only difference is they aren’t hipster names and don’t resemble klopp. 
 

Koeman done a significantly better job with us than Ralph has. 

Seems we agree then. Ralph had a more impressive CV in the same way Nagelsmann is a more impressive hire than Advocaat, both managed the same clubs and had the same level of success. Ralph came second in the German league, neither Adkins or Wilder came anywhere near that in the English. Ralph won his side Champions league football, neither came anywhere near that. I know you don't like Ralph, but he was objectively more successful before Saints than Koeman was, and a tonne more successful than Adkins?! 

Koeman was better post joining, yes, that's not the argument here. It was whether Koeman had more sway as a manager coming in than Ralph did due to his success, and he most certainly did not. You can keep saying "hipster" all you like, but he came second in the German league with a newly promoted side and no one you've listed has even come close to such an achievement. History means nothing to that.

Edited 14 June, 2021 by TWar

[SKD]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Seems we agree then. Ralph had a more impressive CV in the same way Nagelsmann is a more impressive hire than Advocaat, both managed the same clubs and had the same level of success. Ralph came second in the German league, neither Adkins or Wilder came anywhere near that in the English. Ralph won his side Champions league football, neither came anywhere near that. I know you don't like Ralph, but he was objectively more successful before Saints than Koeman was, and a tonne more successful than Adkins?! 

Koeman was better post joining, yes, that's not the argument here. It was whether Koeman had more sway as a manager coming in than Ralph did due to his success, and he most certainly did not. You can keep saying "hipster" all you like, but he came second in the German league with a newly promoted side and no one you've listed has even come close to such an achievement. History means nothing to that.

It’s got nothing to do with liking Ralph or not. Koeman is a much, much bigger name in football than Ralph will ever be. 
 

His playing career alone is a bigger sway for players than Ralph’s relatively little ‘success’. As you claimed, RB are a ‘powerhouse’ in football. Surely coming second amd getting CL is par for the course for such a powerhouse. 
 

On one hand you big up his CV for working for a huge club, then on the other claim finishing second is a huge achievement for that club. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

It’s got nothing to do with liking Ralph or not. Koeman is a much, much bigger name in football than Ralph will ever be. 
 

His playing career alone is a bigger sway for players than Ralph’s relatively little ‘success’. As you claimed, RB are a ‘powerhouse’ in football. Surely coming second amd getting CL is par for the course for such a powerhouse. 
 

On one hand you big up his CV for working for a huge club, then on the other claim finishing second is a huge achievement for that club. 

Koeman is bigger now as a manager, we are not arguing about that. All I said was Ralph had a much more impressive managerial CV when joining saints than Koeman did. You keep trying to move the goalposts but that is what was said. Also "will ever be" is not something you can at all claim, unless you can see the future.

Leipzig are where they are partly thanks to Ralph. But yes, Ralph was hired for what turned out to be a big job and did well in it. Koeman had never done a big job by then, his sole experience in the top 5 european leagues was finishing 15th in la liga. Not as impressive.

Also I think a player would be very foolish to rather play for a manager who was a famous player rather than a manager who is famous for being a good manager. Tuchel vs Lampard springs to mind.

[saint1977]

Feyenoord are a huge club - European trophies, big stadium and big gates. Newcastle sort of size but a lot more successful. We had Feyenoord and Groningen fans at our games under Koeman and they were brilliant. If that lot down the M27 think they are passionate and make noise they should go to a game at the ‘Tub’ in Rotterdam and they will see what fierce support looks like.

[Mystic Force]

Managers coming in from less renowned leagues are able to bring some under appreciated gems with them, which is what Koeman seems to have done, and what built Wengers success with the influx of French players when he started at Arsenal. Coming from Germany, a more substantial league then Holland or France of the 90s means that those type of players simply are not floating around in the same way inexpensive and unrecognized. Which players that finish 2nd in the Bundersleague are going to want to come to a bottom half of the premier league team? However playing for the biggest club in Holland, will probably not get you as well payed as a lesser premier league side, plus you are in a bigger shop window.

Are model was to be the stepping stone club, which worked great for us. The hits out weighed the misses, but once that progression dried up we no longer look as attractive to those who might want to tread that path, and are capable of delivering the goods, which now leaves us back as an "ordinary" club competing on the same level as those around us. It does not help that our other talent source has also been running dry at this time.

 

So if I was looking for our next manager, I would look for someone who has done decently in a Portugal, Holland or somewhere similar, who seems to punch above their weight from available resources.

Edited 14 June, 2021 by Mystic Force

[SaintTex]

considering inflation, it's shocking that that our biggest yearly spend happened 7 years ago.

2014/15 (Spent £70m)

i would reckon every other PL club's has occurred within at the last 3 years.

[Lord Duckhunter]

7 hours ago, TWar said:

I think he made good signings because of his knowledge base more than his "pull". He was at Valencia for one year, struggled to 15th with a side, and was sacked. His next job was with AZ Alkmaar so not exactly a storming success which raised his profile. He did ok with Benfica but that is a much weaker league than the premier league and again only for one year.

Maybe it is unfair for me to say his first "major job" outside of Holland owing to his stint in the Portuguese league and his failed stint in Spain, but we were certainly his first role that actually upped his status and his background was certainly a lot less impressive than Ralphs. 

Reverse ferret when he realises he’s factually incorrect. Lol . 

[Matthew Le God]

5 hours ago, SKD said:

His playing career alone is a bigger sway for players than Ralph’s relatively little ‘success’. As you claimed, RB are a ‘powerhouse’ in football. Surely coming second amd getting CL is par for the course for such a powerhouse. 
 

On one hand you big up his CV for working for a huge club, then on the other claim finishing second is a huge achievement for that club. 

They were a newly promoted team in their first top flight season when Hasenhuttl took them to 2nd in the Bundesliga.  So to call it 'par for the course' is a nonsense. 

[Smirking_Saint]

4 hours ago, SaintTex said:

considering inflation, it's shocking that that our biggest yearly spend happened 7 years ago.

2014/15 (Spent £70m)

i would reckon every other PL club's has occurred within at the last 3 years.

Our net spend has never been anything much over 30m for any of the past decade.... which sort of shows you where our finances sit

Our biggest net spend was within the last 3 years

[niceandfriendly]

Well a huge thanks to TWar is in order for all the laughs this morning. 

[CB Fry]

Well, this thread is insane.

The Koeman appointment was amazing at the time, and the job he did was outstanding.

Ralph is still hovering around Dave Jones achievement level for me. Just okay but pretty forgettable.

Just no comparison.

 

[CB Fry]

12 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

They were a newly promoted team in their first top flight season when Hasenhuttl took them to 2nd in the Bundesliga.  So to call it 'par for the course' is a nonsense. 

To pretend RB Leipzig are just a normal "newly promoted team" is equally nonsense. 

You expecting Brentford to finish second and end up un the Champions League semis the following season?

[TWar]

57 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Well, this thread is insane.

The Koeman appointment was amazing at the time, and the job he did was outstanding.

Ralph is still hovering around Dave Jones achievement level for me. Just okay but pretty forgettable.

Just no comparison.

 

The discussion is who was more accomplished as a manager when they joined though, and Koeman had never had a job as high profile as a team that finished second in the German league. Dutch jobs, a Portuguese job, and guiding a Spanish team to 15th are not as high profile by a long shot.

Koeman went on to be more successful afterwards but that's not what I was saying.

Edited 15 June, 2021 by TWar

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

The discussion is who was more accomplished as a manager when they joined though, and Koeman had never had a job as high profile as a team that finished second in the German league. Dutch jobs, a Portuguese job, and guiding a Spanish team to 15th are not as high profile by a long shot.

Koeman went on to be more successful afterwards but that's not what I was saying.

Don’t you think Koemans 3 league titles and 3 domestic cups in 3 different countries make him a more accomplished manager or are we ignoring them?

Edited 15 June, 2021 by Turkish

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, niceandfriendly said:

Well a huge thanks to TWar is in order for all the laughs this morning. 

Typical geek who reads a few stats and think they know it all

[SKD]

16 minutes ago, TWar said:

The discussion is who was more accomplished as a manager when they joined though, and Koeman had never had a job as high profile as a team that finished second in the German league. Dutch jobs, a Portuguese job, and guiding a Spanish team to 15th are not as high profile by a long shot.

Koeman went on to be more successful afterwards but that's not what I was saying.

You also claimed that Ralph is a bigger pull to attract players than Koeman, which is complete and utter rubbish. 

There were several reports at the time that players new and old were relishing playing under someone as big as Koeman. 

Id argue that all of his jobs before us were more high profile than a newly promoted team (judging them on 2015/16 not now). And I’m including assistant manager of Barcelona. 

[SKD]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Don’t you think Koemans 3 league titles and 3 domestic cups in 3 different countries make him a more accomplished manager or are we ignoring them?

Of course they don’t. The Athletic don’t write about Koeman. Probably because he doesn’t play a high energy ‘gengenpress’ and doesn’t resemble Klopp. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

You also claimed that Ralph is a bigger pull to attract players than Koeman, which is complete and utter rubbish. 

There were several reports at the time that players new and old were relishing playing under someone as big as Koeman. 

Id argue that all of his jobs before us were more high profile than a newly promoted team (judging them on 2015/16 not now). And I’m including assistant manager of Barcelona. 

I do still think Ralph is a bigger pull as a manager, you will find several reports now from our players saying they were excited to play under Ralph. It is a pretty common thing for a signing to say. 

RB Leipzig seem to exist in a weird middle ground for you. When you are trying to argue he didn't do a good job they are a team with great financial means who would expect to finish second, but when you are trying to argue it wasn't a big, high profile job, it is just a "newly promoted team". Truth is, while RB leipzig were under Ralph they finished 2nd in a massive league. It is a lot more than Koeman managed, he did well in small leagues and poorly in a bigger one.

Being an assistant manager for a big side is worth next to nothing imo. If I found out we were bringing in an assistant manager to a big side rather than an actually established one in their own right I'd be pissed.

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, SKD said:

Of course they don’t. The Athletic don’t write about Koeman. Probably because he doesn’t play a high energy ‘gengenpress’ and doesn’t resemble Klopp. 

The Athletic write about Koeman a great deal, he is the manager of Barcalona, what are you on about?

[SW5 SAINT]

On 13/06/2021 at 23:34, RedArmy said:

Best part of £100m down the shitter on Elyonoussi, Gunn, Lemina, Hoedt, Carrillo and Boufal. 
 

Could have bought Soyuncu, Pereira, Tielemans and 

Edited 15 June, 2021 by SW5 SAINT
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