COVID and Football (Merged)

[Whitey Grandad]

22 minutes ago, OldNick said:

My understanding ( that may be well off the mark) is that even though you are vaccinated you can still carry the virus and pass it on.

May be complete bollox but thats how I understood it

Yes, you can in theory and it has happened in a couple of cases but there is no denuying that if you have been fully vaccinated you are much less likely to catch the disease and hence less likely to pass it on. Andthis is the whole point of a mass vaccination proramme.

Some people on here don't have any concept as to how these vaccines reduce transmission. For them they either work completely or they don'y work at all.

[Whitey Grandad]

One consequence of this new restricition is that it makes it more difficult for somebody else to use your season ticket.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, OldNick said:

My understanding ( that may be well off the mark) is that even though you are vaccinated you can still carry the virus and pass it on.

May be complete bollox but thats how I understood it

Correct. My wife caught it off her sister who was double vaccinated and I caught it off her. All of us had only had the second jab a couple of months earlier 

[Turkish]

51 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Yes, you can in theory and it has happened in a couple of cases but there is no denuying that if you have been fully vaccinated you are much less likely to catch the disease and hence less likely to pass it on. Andthis is the whole point of a mass vaccination proramme.

Some people on here don't have any concept as to how these vaccines reduce transmission. For them they either work completely or they don'y work at all.

I know loads of people who have got it and passed it on with double vaccination. 

[magnet]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I know loads of people who have got it and passed it on with double vaccination. 

Me too Turkish, my ex brother in-law has caught it even after the booster!! Vaccine passports are not the forward.... Good luck with the queues Saturday as it will be carnage, I wont be going as I don't think I need to declare my vaccine status to Saints or anybody for that matter.

[magnet]

On 14/12/2021 at 00:19, Whitey Grandad said:

True. Sometimes they die.

It’s the period whilst they’re infectious that’s the problem. Surely the basics are obvious? If you’re unvaccinated then you’re much more likely to spread the disease than if you’re vaccinated.

Not true, the viral load between a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person is identical.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by magnet

[John D]

58 minutes ago, magnet said:

Me too Turkish, my ex brother in-law has caught it even after the booster!! Vaccine passports are not the forward.... Good luck with the queues Saturday as it will be carnage, I wont be going as I don't think I need to declare my vaccine status to Saints or anybody for that matter.

You don't on Saturday either. Proof of negative test is sufficient. 

[FarehamSaintJames]

The vaccination status is a bit moot really as you can still carry the virus whether vaccinated or not.

The vaccine purely reduces the risk of serious illness and has been proven to reduce hospitalisations and serious ill health. It doesn’t stop you getting it, after over a year of the vaccine being around you’d expect people to understand this by now.

I actually think for stadium events you should have to have proof of a negative test within 24 hours of an event.

30,000 declaring a negative test before an event I think is better than 30,000 people essentially “signing in” to the stadium because they’ve been jabbed; they could be a carrier and not know.

I’d still urge anyone to get jabbed; put your trust in scientists rather than what Bob has rage-written on the internet.

[SaintsLoyal]

Trying to create an enviroment where risk mitigation has been applied is common sense.

 

 

[suewhistle]

36 minutes ago, SaintsLoyal said:

Trying to create an enviroment where risk mitigation has been applied is common sense.

Yep. On Saturday morning weather permitting I'm being given a ride in a helicopter by a PPL(H) pilot. Some mechanical disaster could happen but I am very happy that the A check they give the aircraft is very thorough as is their attitude to flying. Not all private pilots arm the same in this regard: some can be quite slapdash.

I'll be at the game in the afternoon, though unfortunately I'll have to drive there not fly in!

 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

I know loads of people who have got it and passed it on with double vaccination. 

And how many haven’t passed it on?

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

And how many haven’t passed it on?

How would I know that? Maybe they passed it onto to people I don’t know 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

How would I know that? Maybe they passed it onto to people I don’t know 

Exactly. That’s my point. Whatever you know or don’t know is irrelevant.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Exactly. That’s my point. Whatever you know or don’t know is irrelevant.

Course it’s relevant. I know a lot of double vaccinated people who have had it and caught it from other double vaccinated. They’ve also passed it on. How would I know if a double vaccinated person hasn’t passed it on? They might have passed on it on to someone I don’t know, they might not even know if they’ve done it. I was isolating when I got it as my wife had it, the day she came out of isolating I was out and about and tested positive he next morning so could quite likely have passed it on before I knew I had it  You’re trying to claim you’re much less likely to get it if you’re double jabbed when personal experience says that’s simply untrue. Most people I know who’ve had it have got it since the vaccines.

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Turkish

[Whitey Grandad]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Course it’s relevant. I know a lot of double vaccinated people who have had it and caught it from other double vaccinated. They’ve also passed it on. How would I know if a double vaccinated person hasn’t passed it on? They might have passed on it on to someone I don’t know, they might not even know if they’ve done it. I was isolating when I got it as my wife had it, the day she came out of isolating I was out and about and tested positive he next morning so could quite likely have passed it on before I knew I had it  You’re trying to claim you’re much less likely to get it if you’re double jabbed when personal experience says that’s simply untrue. Most people I know who’ve had it have got it since the vaccines.

Your handful of cases mean nothing. Your personal experience of one or two is contradicted by everybody else in the country. I know fully vaccinated people who haven’t caught it and haven’t passed it on. Or don’t they count?

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Your handful of cases mean nothing. Your personal experience of one or two is contradicted by everybody else in the country. I know fully vaccinated people who haven’t caught it and haven’t passed it on. Or don’t they count?

It’s not one or two, it’s dozens. I know lots of people who have had it and lots of others who haven’t. You’re trying to make out that if you’re vaccinated it’s hard to catch and pass on, believe me it isn’t. 

[Whitey Grandad]

Just now, Turkish said:

It’s not one or two, it’s dozens. I know lots of people who have had it and lots of others who haven’t. You’re trying to make out that if you’re vaccinated it’s hard to catch and pass on, believe me it isn’t. 

Dozens? Wow! 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Dozens? Wow! 

Yep that’s right, want details? Believe it or not some people do know quite a few people 

Edited 15 December, 2021 by Turkish

[teamsaint]

There is a mountain of data out there. It really does make sense to try to look behind the headlines, to try to get an idea of what is really going on, and not rely on some of the more blatant misinformation , such as the “90 % of people in hospital are unvaxxed” that was repeated several times recently on TV.

the weekly  UKHSA vaccine surveillance report is a very useful tool, as the raw data is probably reliable.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf

in the latest week published, it shows broadly, among the 18+ age groups : (Vaxxed numbers are fully double vaxxed )

Cases 

unvaxxed 95k  vaxxed 467k

Emergency care admissions

unvaxxed 2676  vaxxed 4526

deaths with covid within 28 days

unvaxxed   704 vaxxed  2480

( of the deaths, 2226 were among the over 70s) 

 

 

Edited 15 December, 2021 by teamsaint

[Patrick Bateman]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Course it’s relevant. I know a lot of double vaccinated people who have had it and caught it from other double vaccinated. They’ve also passed it on. How would I know if a double vaccinated person hasn’t passed it on? They might have passed on it on to someone I don’t know, they might not even know if they’ve done it. I was isolating when I got it as my wife had it, the day she came out of isolating I was out and about and tested positive he next morning so could quite likely have passed it on before I knew I had it  You’re trying to claim you’re much less likely to get it if you’re double jabbed when personal experience says that’s simply untrue. Most people I know who’ve had it have got it since the vaccines.

Quite. I had 3 vaccines and still got it - due to my chest condition I'm bloody glad I did have 3 vaccines though.  However I fail to understand why people think being vaccinated means you won't get it?? It just stops you (potentially) being hospitalised, or worse and it also is more likely to prevent more mutations as it's wiped out from your body quicker. This is not rocket science. 

[Patrick Bateman]

7 hours ago, magnet said:

Not true, the viral load between a vaccinated person and a non vaccinated person is identical.

Yes, true. In the BMJ; https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074

[East Kent Saint]

7 hours ago, teamsaint said:

There is a mountain of data out there. It really does make sense to try to look behind the headlines, to try to get an idea of what is really going on, and not rely on some of the more blatant misinformation , such as the “90 % of people in hospital are unvaxxed” that was repeated several times recently on TV.

the weekly  UKHSA vaccine surveillance report is a very useful tool, as the raw data is probably reliable.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf

in the latest week published, it shows broadly, among the 18+ age groups : (Vaxxed numbers are fully double vaxxed )

Cases 

unvaxxed 95k  vaxxed 467k

Emergency care admissions

unvaxxed 2676  vaxxed 4526

deaths with covid within 28 days

unvaxxed   704 vaxxed  2480

( of the deaths, 2226 were among the over 70s) 

 

 

how do these figures compare with the ratio of Vac/ non vac in the country as a whole ?

[whelk]

Anyone going to the stadium to be jabbed not to attend the game? What sort of bs advice is that?

[CB Fry]

9 hours ago, teamsaint said:

There is a mountain of data out there. It really does make sense to try to look behind the headlines, to try to get an idea of what is really going on, and not rely on some of the more blatant misinformation , such as the “90 % of people in hospital are unvaxxed” that was repeated several times recently on TV.

the weekly  UKHSA vaccine surveillance report is a very useful tool, as the raw data is probably reliable.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039677/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_49.pdf

in the latest week published, it shows broadly, among the 18+ age groups : (Vaxxed numbers are fully double vaxxed )

Cases 

unvaxxed 95k  vaxxed 467k

Emergency care admissions

unvaxxed 2676  vaxxed 4526

deaths with covid within 28 days

unvaxxed   704 vaxxed  2480

( of the deaths, 2226 were among the over 70s) 

 

 

I don't really understand what point you are trying to make. You've linked to a report that concludes unequivocally that the vaccination program is highly effective/offering high levels of protection from serious disease and death.

What's the "misinformation"?

[teamsaint]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

how do these figures compare with the ratio of Vac/ non vac in the country as a whole ?

17 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I don't really understand what point you are trying to make. You've linked to a report that concludes unequivocally that the vaccination program is highly effective/offering high levels of protection from serious disease and death.

What's the "misinformation"?

There is a lot of misinformation out there, ( edit : on all sides) such as the recent Hilary Jones et al quote about 90% of people in hospital with covid being unvaxxed, which is just complete nonsense, and went unchallenged.
 

my “point “ is that there is a huge amount of data , and considerable misunderstanding about who is being affected .I’m just linking to a useful source,that’s all.

 

Re the size of the vaxxed/ unvaxxed populations, the size of the unvaxxed population is a matter of some controversy, as there are two different measures used.

Edited 16 December, 2021 by teamsaint

[The Cat]

I was expecting some sort of check on the way in last night but there was nothing.

Not sure if they were doing it for home fans or not as their queues to get in were pretty big about 5-10 mins before kick off.

[S-Clarke]

47 minutes ago, whelk said:

Anyone going to the stadium to be jabbed not to attend the game? What sort of bs advice is that?

''If you're going to a stadium this weekend, make sure you are also getting jabbed or at least helping the effort. Don't just go there for the event''.

That was the exact quote, and somewhat bonkers I thought too given that you wouldn't get that happening at stadiums where a game is on. The government are so out of touch with how life works.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

43 minutes ago, The Cat said:

I was expecting some sort of check on the way in last night but there was nothing.

Not sure if they were doing it for home fans or not as their queues to get in were pretty big about 5-10 mins before kick off.

We were checked in the boxes.  Biggest issue was people weren't ready and ended up waiting ages for their covid passes to load.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, teamsaint said:

There is a lot of misinformation out there, ( edit : on all sides) such as the recent Hilary Jones et al quote about 90% of people in hospital with covid being unvaxxed, which is just complete nonsense, and went unchallenged.
 

my “point “ is that there is a huge amount of data , and considerable misunderstanding about who is being affected .I’m just linking to a useful source,that’s all.

 

Re the size of the vaxxed/ unvaxxed populations, the size of the unvaxxed population is a matter of some controversy, as there are two different measures used.

Do you agree with the conclusions of the report you linked to?

[JRM]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yep that’s right, want details? Believe it or not some people do know quite a few people 

Unfortunately mate Grandad had digested so much fear and propaganda he's practically drunk on it. 

[JRM]

The fear junkies are loving it, you can apparently catch Delta and Omicrom at the same time! Cancel everything! 

[wild-saint]

11 hours ago, Turkish said:

Yep that’s right, want details? Believe it or not some people do know quite a few people 

Your wasting your time. He is clearly scared shitless and maybe that's understandable if he is old / vulnerable. It does seem that its mainly those over 65 are happy to call for more restrictions at the expense of those at far less risk. I would suggest the vulnerable / old shield for a couple of months whilst this wave passes if it makes them feel safer. Clearly they dont want to miss out and want everyone to join them in their misery.

[teamsaint]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Do you agree with the conclusions of the report you linked to?

Some of the interpretation around the numbers of unvaxxed population have been very controversial, so that needs treating with caution. Estimates of the unvaxxed population on official data  vary between around 5 and 10 m, which is clearly a significant difference 

https://covidactuaries.org/2021/10/27/vaccine-effectiveness-and-population-estimates/

 

I'm happy to use the data  to help build a picture of what is happening, but it is just one report , and there is other data that is also useful.

And there are reports , such as all- cause mortality by age and vaxx status that really need producing, to show the full effects of being vaxxed or not, but the govt agencies  don't seem to want to do those.

I'm just offering the info to those who may not be aware of it, because it is useful, not because the conclusions in its interpretation  are infallible. 

 

 

[wild-saint]

well no Covid passes required at Palace last night. And with the trains rammed both ways plus the concourse rammed i think we will have Covid by the morning and will find out of 2 jabs is good enough.  

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, teamsaint said:

There is a lot of misinformation out there, ( edit : on all sides) such as the recent Hilary Jones et al quote about 90% of people in hospital with covid being unvaxxed, which is just complete nonsense, and went unchallenged.
 

my “point “ is that there is a huge amount of data , and considerable misunderstanding about who is being affected .I’m just linking to a useful source,that’s all.

 

Re the size of the vaxxed/ unvaxxed populations, the size of the unvaxxed population is a matter of some controversy, as there are two different measures used.

Doctor Hilary Jones? You're taking the views serious of a bloke who has made a living scaring old people and the unemployed on morning TV for 30 years  

[Turkish]

45 minutes ago, JRM said:

Unfortunately mate Grandad had digested so much fear and propaganda he's practically drunk on it. 

Sadly he's not alone, there are loads out there like it. As i said on the other thread, fear sells. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, teamsaint said:

And there are reports , such as all- cause mortality by age and vaxx status that really need producing, to show the full effects of being vaxxed or not, but the govt agencies  don't seem to want to do those.

With your going-in hypothesis being what?

When you are talking about the vast majority of all adults in the country being vaccinated an "all cause" mortality report is not going to give you what you think it is going to give you. You might as well do a "all cause" mortality report based on whether or not people own a black pullover across the population.

You've taken a report that is fundamentally about the effectiveness of the vaccine and decided to pick out threads of "raw data" to try and show a different story by presenting the data out of context.

I feel like you are just a slightly more articulate SalmonSi.

Edited 16 December, 2021 by CB Fry

[Noodles34]

Away end was pretty packed last night though heard plenty of example of people not going who had tickets, which is fine, you have to make the decisions based on how you personally feel about risks etc. However, as I said, the whole ground seemed fairly full and to be me that says that the majority of people just want to take whatever precautions they feel they need to and  then just get on with it. 

 

[Noodles34]

and no checks of course, so that plan is working well

[The Cat]

15 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

Away end was pretty packed last night though heard plenty of example of people not going who had tickets, which is fine, you have to make the decisions based on how you personally feel about risks etc. However, as I said, the whole ground seemed fairly full and to be me that says that the majority of people just want to take whatever precautions they feel they need to and  then just get on with it. 

 

What was going on with the block on the left hand side? Loads of spare seats, we went and stood there because it's always good to have a bit of room to run into when we score.

I guess they didn't put them on sale but I can't think why not as the netting was still in place between us and Palace fans.

[JRM]

43 minutes ago, The Cat said:

What was going on with the block on the left hand side? Loads of spare seats, we went and stood there because it's always good to have a bit of room to run into when we score.

I guess they didn't put them on sale but I can't think why not as the netting was still in place between us and Palace fans.

Apparently we didn't take full allocation as it was on guaranteed sale basis, but Palace also didn't bother putting on sale to home fans. Part of the crazy world of modern football. 

[East Kent Saint]

3 hours ago, teamsaint said:

There is a lot of misinformation out there, ( edit : on all sides) such as the recent Hilary Jones et al quote about 90% of people in hospital with covid being unvaxxed, which is just complete nonsense, and went unchallenged.
 

my “point “ is that there is a huge amount of data , and considerable misunderstanding about who is being affected .I’m just linking to a useful source,that’s all.

 

Re the size of the vaxxed/ unvaxxed populations, the size of the unvaxxed population is a matter of some controversy, as there are two different measures used.

Point is there are many more vaxed people so numerically there will be more that catch covid and go to A&E but as a % of the group it would be a lower % than the Unvaxed . But stats are a nightmare , you can show what you like with a set of figures  , as we all know .

[Lighthouse]

I suspect we might be seeing football suspended temporarily anyway, the way infections and the number of postponements are rising. 

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

I suspect we might be seeing football suspended temporarily anyway, the way infections and the number of postponements are rising. 

Fucking Christmas with no football woudl be unbearable. Play the kids if you are struggling

[Sarisbury Saint]

On 13/12/2021 at 19:42, vectraman said:

So where does this leave children in the rules? I have a 15 year old and a 13 year old who have been single jabbed….Are children now banned? So confusing. 

Did this get answered?

Also, what happens if you can’t go because your self isolating, can you give your tickets to someone else ?

[Saint86]

On 15/12/2021 at 15:34, Turkish said:

I know loads of people who have got it and passed it on with double vaccination. 

Everyone I know who has had covid has been double vaccinated 😅

The guy who had AZ got it twice. But he did have a quite severe reaction to his AZ vaccine so may not have worked.

Edited 16 December, 2021 by Saint86

[SaintSteve]

5 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Everyone I know who has had covid has been double vaccinated 😅

The guy who had AZ got it twice. But he did have a quite severe reaction to his AZ vaccine so may not have worked.

Surely that’s normal as a high percentage have been vaccinated..it’s the idiots who don’t get vaccinated that put the pressure on the NHS

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Did this get answered?

Also, what happens if you can’t go because your self isolating, can you give your tickets to someone else ?

Kids just need a negative LFT.

You can give your ticket to someone else. The only way that would be an issue is if they were checking names on tickets against names on covid passes and there's no way they are doing that for 30000 people or we'd be told to get there an hour or more before kick off.

[waylander]

9 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

Surely that’s normal as a high percentage have been vaccinated..it’s the idiots who don’t get vaccinated that put the pressure on the NHS

BBC News just had a consultant at St George's on. They have 11 covid patients in their ICU atm, 9 of them unvaccinated.

Edited 16 December, 2021 by waylander

[real saint]

All supporters over the age of 18 need to complete the pre-registration form. Under-18s do not need to pre-register their Covid-19 status and will not be checked on the day.

Under 18s no checks