James Ward-Prowse

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

You do realise you're ridiculing the pathway for a player that has travelled it better than most.

Im not ridiculing the pathway. What better evidence of a successful pathway than selling  a player who went down that pathway for tens of millions and replacing him with another player at the start of his journey down the pathway? We shouldn't block the pathway for the next generation and if that means selling older players who have been down the pathway then that is part of parcel of a successful pathway.

Edited 26 March, 2021 by Turkish

[SKD]

19 minutes ago, Avenue_Saint said:

England international in his mid 20s in the form of his life. £50m during covid is a good price for a ambitious buying team with a hole in their midfield.

I know some of us are plagued by a pound shop mentality (for good reason too perhaps) but we don’t have to be when we are selling. 
 

obviously as the buying team, we are who we are...

 

 

If he’s 50m post covid, what you valuing him at pre? 
 

What would you value Rice at, who’s a much better player btw. 

[JustinSFC]

Prowse is a good player.

Rumoured to be almost moving for £15m that was what? 2 3 years ago?

My valuation of £25m + add-ons is an almost doubling of value, what rate do you expect a player like Prowse to accumulate at?

He's a good player but he's not £50m quid good.

Some of you on this thread wouldn't have a clue what £50m quid looks like, let alone spend it.

This is real money. £50m quid is a lot of money.

[Barsiem]

Is JWP a £50m player?  No

Should we be selling someone like JWP for less than £50m?  No!

JWP is great for teams like us.  He’s a very good Premier League player, but is not good enough to make the first team of the top 6/7.  We should never sell for anything other than a stupid offer, as for the money we raise from his sale otherwise won’t be enough to effectively replace him.

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, Barsiem said:

Is JWP a £50m player?  No

Should we be selling someone like JWP for less than £50m?  No!

This is basically the crux of it and why he probably won’t be sold in summer. He’s worth more to us than anyone else is likely to pay.

[JustinSFC]

3 minutes ago, LeG said:

Lets not forget that JWP has the work rate get even better over the next few years. His progression over the last few seasons has been nothing short of astonishing. He's basically the best free kick taker in the world. He's basically got the best match fitness in the world. He's even been working on scoring direct from corners.

Are you his dad or something?

That's over the top.

Best free kick taker in the world?

Best match fitness in the world?

You calling him better than fucking Christiano Ronaldo on both of those fronts are you?
 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, JustinSFC said:

Are you his dad or something?

That's over the top.

Best free kick taker in the world?

Best match fitness in the world?

You calling him better than fucking Christiano Ronaldo on both of those fronts are you?
 

Juventus: Cristiano Ronaldo's ONE Goal In 72 Free-Kick Record Down To 'Bad Luck' (sportbible.com)

Certainly seems like he is on one of those fronts

[JustinSFC]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Juventus: Cristiano Ronaldo's ONE Goal In 72 Free-Kick Record Down To 'Bad Luck' (sportbible.com)

Certainly seems like he is on one of those fronts

Not for me.

I'd like to see prowse smash one in the way Ronaldo does.

 

[Appy]

5 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Are you his dad or something?

That's over the top.

Best free kick taker in the world?

Best match fitness in the world?

You calling him better than fucking Christiano Ronaldo on both of those fronts are you?
 

Who’s a better free kick taker in world football right now then? 
 

 

[SKD]

22 minutes ago, LeG said:

Lets not forget that JWP has the work rate get even better over the next few years. His progression over the last few seasons has been nothing short of astonishing. He's basically the best free kick taker in the world. He's basically got the best match fitness in the world. He's even been working on scoring direct from corners.

No disrespect, he’s a cracking lad but this is a bit OTT. 
 

As for practicing scoring from corners, I’d rather he started working on through balls and creativity from deep in midfield. 

[Saint Garrett]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

If he’s 50m post covid, what you valuing him at pre? 
 

What would you value Rice at, who’s a much better player btw. 

Not sure he is a "much better player".  Personally, right now, I think JWP is better than him, but they are also different types of CM's.

He is younger, and clearly a very good talent, but he's being quoted at £80-100M...which is anything, supports the argument than JWP is a £40-60m player, certainly to us.

 

[JustinSFC]

17 minutes ago, Appy said:

Who’s a better free kick taker in world football right now then? 
 

 

Ronaldo.
 

I'm not talking AMOUNT.
 

I'm talking technique and sheer outrageousness of the type of goals scored.

Ronaldo, to me, is the best in the world, there is nobody outside of Roberto Carlos in his hey day who can hit a ball like Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has hit some absolutely out of this world goals for Juventus and also Madrid aswell.

If he'd said in the Premier League I'd say there's is certainly a case to be made for that, but when "in the world" gets mentioned that's a whole other debate and you're then bringing other players into it.

You cannot put Ward-Prowse in the same universe as Ronaldo.

On anything. Nothing.

[Saint Garrett]

Just now, JustinSFC said:

Ronaldo.
 

I'm not talking AMOUNT.
 

I'm talking technique and sheer outrageousness of the type of goals scored.

Ronaldo, to me, is the best in the world, there is nobody outside of Roberto Carlos in his hey day who can hit a ball like Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has hit some absolutely out of this world goals for Juventus and also Madrid aswell.

If he'd said in the Premier League I'd say there's is certainly a case to be made for that, but when "in the world" gets mentioned that's a whole other debate and you're then bringing other players into it.

You cannot put Ward-Prowse in the same universe as Ronaldo.

On anything. Nothing.

JWP > Ronaldo at free kicks.

[JustinSFC]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

JWP > Ronaldo at free kicks.

Gtfo

[SambaMaverick]

JWP > Ronaldo at free kicks. Ronaldo's technique is all about getting lucky with the swerve and dip whereas Prowsey is all about curve and precision to make the keeper work about 7 out of 10 attempts. Prowsey's free kicks are special - like Carlos, Juninho and Messi special.

[SKD]

11 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Not sure he is a "much better player".  Personally, right now, I think JWP is better than him, but they are also different types of CM's.

He is younger, and clearly a very good talent, but he's being quoted at £80-100M...which is anything, supports the argument than JWP is a £40-60m player, certainly to us.

 

You’ll not find anyone other than a saints fan who thinks that. 

[Turkish]

37 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Not for me.

I'd like to see prowse smash one in the way Ronaldo does.

 

Ronaldo has scored one goal in seventy two free kicks. He aint smashing many in.

[Barsiem]

15 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Ronaldo.
 

I'm not talking AMOUNT.
 

I'm talking technique and sheer outrageousness of the type of goals scored.

Ronaldo, to me, is the best in the world, there is nobody outside of Roberto Carlos in his hey day who can hit a ball like Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has hit some absolutely out of this world goals for Juventus and also Madrid aswell.

If he'd said in the Premier League I'd say there's is certainly a case to be made for that, but when "in the world" gets mentioned that's a whole other debate and you're then bringing other players into it.

You cannot put Ward-Prowse in the same universe as Ronaldo.

On anything. Nothing.

Why aren’t you talking amount??  That’s the very definition of better in football terms.  Would you rather a 10 goal a season striker who only scores screamers, or a 20 goal striker who only scores tap-ins???

[SKD]

Prowsey would score different free kicks to Ronaldo. 

Prowsey from 20-30 yards is lethal. Ronaldo 30-40 is better though, in my opinion. 

[JustinSFC]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Ronaldo has scored one goal in seventy two free kicks. He aint smashing many in.

That as it may be and if that is true then ok, but equally, there aren't many people talking about Prowse in the same sentence as Christiano Ronaldo either.

[SKD]

3 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

That as it may be and if that is true then ok, but equally, there aren't many people talking about Prowse in the same sentence as Christiano Ronaldo either.

This argument is as daft as those claiming because San Marino players aren’t as good as ours (and would obviously lose every premier league game), they aren’t tactically set up better to defend. 
 

Ronaldo is clearly a better player and therefore talked about more. No one would compare Ronaldo and JWP. 
 

However, free kicks alone, they would compare JWP with Beckham (it’s happened already), who’s arguably the greatest free kick taker ever. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

This argument is as daft as those claiming because San Marino players aren’t as good as ours (and would obviously lose every premier league game), they aren’t tactically set up better to defend. 
 

Ronaldo is clearly a better player and therefore talked about more. No one would compare Ronaldo and JWP. 
 

However, free kicks alone, they would compare JWP with Beckham (it’s happened already), who’s arguably the greatest free kick taker ever. 

I found it highly amusing and weird that some people were desperate to point out that San Marino were absolutely shit and would probably lose every game if they were in the premier league as some defence of our 9-0 losses.  

[stevy777_x]

37 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

JWP > Ronaldo at free kicks. Ronaldo's technique is all about getting lucky with the swerve and dip whereas Prowsey is all about curve and precision to make the keeper work about 7 out of 10 attempts. Prowsey's free kicks are special - like Carlos, Juninho and Messi special.

JWP free kicks are one dimensional.

he s only capable of putting them in top left corner from the left or center of the penalty area.

[TWar]

57 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Ronaldo.
 

I'm not talking AMOUNT.
 

I'm talking technique and sheer outrageousness of the type of goals scored.

Ronaldo, to me, is the best in the world, there is nobody outside of Roberto Carlos in his hey day who can hit a ball like Ronaldo.

Ronaldo has hit some absolutely out of this world goals for Juventus and also Madrid aswell.

If he'd said in the Premier League I'd say there's is certainly a case to be made for that, but when "in the world" gets mentioned that's a whole other debate and you're then bringing other players into it.

You cannot put Ward-Prowse in the same universe as Ronaldo.

On anything. Nothing.

Who is the better free kick taker, the guy who bashes in 2% of the free kicks he takes in a beautiful sensational fashion or the guy who bangs in 25% of the free kicks he takes (as JWP has this season) in a consistent and reliable fashion? Football isn't about doing beautiful things occasionally, it's about being proficient consistently. You don't get extra goals for how nice they look.

Edited 26 March, 2021 by TWar

[JustinSFC]

13 minutes ago, SKD said:

This argument is as daft as those claiming because San Marino players aren’t as good as ours (and would obviously lose every premier league game), they aren’t tactically set up better to defend. 
 

Ronaldo is clearly a better player and therefore talked about more. No one would compare Ronaldo and JWP. 
 

However, free kicks alone, they would compare JWP with Beckham (it’s happened already), who’s arguably the greatest free kick taker ever. 

Every football fan has a stupid opinion about something, we all do, but James Ward-Prowse in terms of Christiano Ronaldo good grief.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, JustinSFC said:

Every football fan has a stupid opinion about something, we all do, but James Ward-Prowse in terms of Christiano Ronaldo good grief.

Honestly, when it comes to free kicks Ronaldo isn't even that good. His hit rate across his career has been pretty average to be honest. I'd put many mediocre players above him in terms of free kick ability, but that doesn't mean they are better than him in general.

[SKD]

5 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Every football fan has a stupid opinion about something, we all do, but James Ward-Prowse in terms of Christiano Ronaldo good grief.

No one is comparing the 2. What they’re saying is that an element of his game, free kicks, is better. 
 

Much like Jack Stephens is better at defending than Ronaldo is... actually, that’s too far. 

Edited 26 March, 2021 by SKD

[Lord Duckhunter]

18 minutes ago, TWar said:

Who is the better free kick taker, the guy who bashes in 2% of the free kicks he takes in a beautiful sensational fashion or the guy who bangs in 25% of the free kicks he takes (as JWP has this season) in a consistent and reliable fashion? Football isn't about doing beautiful things occasionally, it's about being proficient consistently. You don't get extra goals for how nice they look.

What’s Prowse’s career record overall. Because until recently he was hardly banging them in. 

The debate is pointless anyway because  Prowse wouldn’t be taking free kicks in a decent side, he’d be sat on his arse with the stiffs. 

 

[JRM]

I'm pleased for him to get the goal and add to his number of England caps, up to 5 now so just 3 more to equal Le Tissier international appearances. 

Hopefully he can feature in a Cup final for us and the Euros for England, career defining moments, on course to be a club legend. 

[Chris cooper]

I could have done a job in there last night against San Marino ffs

lets be fair jwp was decent last night cos of the opposition.. if he starts in say the later rounds of the euros he doesn’t get that far foward or even that much space as he did last night.

he won’t be in Southgates 11 he just having a look .. the set pieces is wot sets him apart from most DM’s Henderson and rice will occupy those roles in the euros .. jwp will be decent fringe midfielder for England that is all.

better than ronaldo ffs 🤦‍♂️ have a word!

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s Prowse’s career record overall. Because until recently he was hardly banging them in. 

The debate is pointless anyway because  Prowse wouldn’t be taking free kicks in a decent side, he’d be sat on his arse with the stiffs. 

 

In his last six years with us in the league Ward-Prowse has scored 11 times from 77 attempts, giving him about a 15% hit rate across his career. Ronaldo has a 6% hit rate across his career (says the atlantic) as of 2020, since he has not scored one since then it seems likely that has probably gone down a little bit. JWP across his career has almost three times the hit rate of Ronaldo. Whether he would start for a team like peak united or real is another discussion, and a very quick one as he definitely wouldn't in his wildest dreams, but he is definitely a more proficient free kick taker than Ronaldo.

 

Incidentally here is a list of free kick accuracies for different players between 2015 and 2019 in europe. There are a lot of players on there who are worse players than Ronaldo but they are all much much better free kick takers. Truth is, in this specific aspect of football, Ronaldo is not that great. He more than makes up for it elsewhere obviously.

 

Edited 26 March, 2021 by TWar

[SKD]

5 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

I could have done a job in there last night against San Marino ffs

lets be fair jwp was decent last night cos of the opposition.. if he starts in say the later rounds of the euros he doesn’t get that far foward or even that much space as he did last night.

he won’t be in Southgates 11 he just having a look .. the set pieces is wot sets him apart from most DM’s Henderson and rice will occupy those roles in the euros .. jwp will be decent fringe midfielder for England that is all.

better than ronaldo ffs 🤦‍♂️ have a word!

He’s better as a deeper player anyway, like he is with us as a 6. He’s not a 10. At best he’s a box to box 8, but creativity isn’t his strong points. 

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

In his last six years with us in the league Ward-Prowse has scored 11 times from 77 attempts, giving him about a 15% hit rate across his career. Ronaldo has a 6% hit rate across his career (says the atlantic) as of 2020, since he has not scored one since then it seems likely that has probably gone down a little bit. JWP across his career has almost three times the hit rate of Ronaldo. Whether he would start for a team like peak united or real is another discussion, and a very quick one as he definitely wouldn't in his wildest dreams, but he is definitely a more proficient free kick taker than Ronaldo.

How many more free kicks has Ronaldo taken? Not a sarcy comment, but I’m assuming it’s a lot more than Prowse, so therefore his % will be lower. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

How many more free kicks has Ronaldo taken? Not a sarcy comment, but I’m assuming it’s a lot more than Prowse, so therefore his % will be lower. 

It's a good question, unfortunately the athletic article that states his hit-rate doesn't say unfortunately. You are probably right that it is an absolute tonne more. I'd say it's unlikely him taking more would lead to a lower %, if he is a given quality his % should represent that. The only issue I guess is a smaller sample size but I think 77 FKs over six years is probably enough to accurately judge JWP's quality.

[JustinSFC]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

In his last six years with us in the league Ward-Prowse has scored 11 times from 77 attempts, giving him about a 15% hit rate across his career. Ronaldo has a 6% hit rate across his career (says the atlantic) as of 2020, since he has not scored one since then it seems likely that has probably gone down a little bit. JWP across his career has almost three times the hit rate of Ronaldo. Whether he would start for a team like peak united or real is another discussion, and a very quick one as he definitely wouldn't in his wildest dreams, but he is definitely a more proficient free kick taker than Ronaldo.

 

Incidentally here is a list of free kick accuracies for different players between 2015 and 2019 in europe. There are a lot of players on there who are worse players than Ronaldo but they are all much much better free kick takers. Truth is, in this specific aspect of football, Ronaldo is not that great. He more than makes up for it elsewhere obviously.

 

It's not about that though is it?

When you're talking about BEST, it's about who you remember.

When you ask anyone who isn't a saints fan "who's the best" how many are saying James Ward-Prowse?

When Prowse starts doing it on the world stage, in champions League games, then it's a conversation to be had, but right now it's fair to say he's the best in the Premier League...... Maybe. And it's a big maybe, De Bruyne is pretty mean aswell.

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

It's not about that though is it?

When you're talking about BEST, it's about who you remember.

When you ask anyone who isn't a saints fan "who's the best" how many are saying James Ward-Prowse?

When Prowse starts doing it on the world stage, in champions League games, then it's a conversation to be had, but right now it's fair to say he's the best in the Premier League...... Maybe. And it's a big maybe, De Bruyne is pretty mean aswell.

What the hell are you going on about. Of course who scores more free kicks is better. That’s massively undebatable.  

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

It's not about that though is it?

When you're talking about BEST, it's about who you remember.

When you ask anyone who isn't a saints fan "who's the best" how many are saying James Ward-Prowse?

When Prowse starts doing it on the world stage, in champions League games, then it's a conversation to be had, but right now it's fair to say he's the best in the Premier League...... Maybe. And it's a big maybe, De Bruyne is pretty mean aswell.

I get what you are saying, football is a beautiful emotional game and what you remember should be really important. But when it comes down to it it is a results based business and you pick the one who puts the ball in the net the most times and right now JWP is close to best in the world for that, and Ronaldo have never even come close. In fact Ronaldo has a worse free kick rate than Mark Noble IIRC. Free kicks are a weird skill and don't exactly correlate to your overall quality all that well.

Also I think you would be surprised about other fans response to JWP, if you look at any given reddit thread about him things like "basically a penalty for him", "best in the league", "Ward-Prowse or Messi?" get said an awful lot.

KdB is a fair shout, his conversion rate is actually very good, him and TAA were the only players ahead of JWP for set piece goals (so including assists from corners and the like) last season, he was behind JWP for FK conversion rate but not by a large amount at all. At that point is probably preference.

Edited 26 March, 2021 by TWar

[JustinSFC]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

What the hell are you going on about. Of course who scores more free kicks is better. That’s massively undebatable.  

Phillipe Coutinho is on that chart at the top in terms of conversions.

If you didn't see that chart and I asked you straight out..right now...who was the best Free kick taker in the world would you have replied to me Coutinho?

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Phillipe Coutinho is on that chart at the top in terms of conversions.

If you didn't see that chart and I asked you straight out..right now...who was the best Free kick taker in the world would you have replied to me Coutinho?

To be fair, that chart is from 2019, back then people probably would have brought his name up, he has had an unfortunate time of things since then whereas JWP has only improved.

[SKD]

12 minutes ago, TWar said:

It's a good question, unfortunately the athletic article that states his hit-rate doesn't say unfortunately. You are probably right that it is an absolute tonne more. I'd say it's unlikely him taking more would lead to a lower %, if he is a given quality his % should represent that. The only issue I guess is a smaller sample size but I think 77 FKs over six years is probably enough to accurately judge JWP's quality.

I suspect if you broke down the areas of their conversion, that it’d be very different for each. 
 

But I agree, Prowse is better overall. 
 

Id say he’s up there with beckham, who was the greatest of all time (free kicks) for me

[SKD]

5 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Phillipe Coutinho is on that chart at the top in terms of conversions.

If you didn't see that chart and I asked you straight out..right now...who was the best Free kick taker in the world would you have replied to me Coutinho?

Probably not but i don’t see enough of him to judge. 
 

If the stats prove his is, then it’s hard to argue. These things are pretty black and white 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

I suspect if you broke down the areas of their conversion, that it’d be very different for each. 
 

But I agree, Prowse is better overall. 
 

Id say he’s up there with beckham, who was the greatest of all time (free kicks) for me

Yeah you are right, I suspect JWP stats are a little skewed by the fact he doesn't try to score from 30+ yards very often and instead drops it in the box for defenders to attack. By only trying from an easier range it probably helps his numbers a little bit.

[Lord Duckhunter]

11 minutes ago, SKD said:

What the hell are you going on about. Of course who scores more free kicks is better. That’s massively undebatable.  

Only on the play station.

Where you shoot from, who against, what stage of the game, how important it is, what’s the score at the time, all make a difference. I’ll bet my life he wouldn’t have banged in the one David Beckham did against Greece. 

[JustinSFC]

9 minutes ago, SKD said:

Probably not but i don’t see enough of him to judge. 
 

If the stats prove his is, then it’s hard to argue. These things are pretty black and white 

We went top of the league this season, we were statistically the best.

Taking covid out of it, who at that time would have been sat in the pub saying "Southampton are the best team"..

Nobody. Except over the top fans from our fanbase even then, it would be probably less than 10.

In my eyes, the "best" is judged based on what get's talked about by fans without needing great big hoofwanking bar charts with percentile conversion rates on them.

But that's just me and my own individual opinion.

Doesn't mean I'm right but I can reserve the right to say James Ward-Prowse is nowhere near talked about in regards to free kicks in the same way Ronaldo is.

Because irrespective of statistics, if you asked 99% of fans on the street in the entire world (because you have to if you're saying the worlds best) most would have ronaldo's name in there more often than Ward-Prowse.
 

[JustinSFC]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Only on the play station.

Where you shoot from, who against, what stage of the game, how important it is, what’s the score at the time, all make a difference. I’ll bet my life he wouldn’t have banged in the one David Beckham did against Greece. 

David Beckham V Greece you took the words straight out of my mouth.

[S-Clarke]

I've never classed Ronaldo as a great free kick taker, it was just another element to his amazing list of things he can do - but it wasn't his main ability. The ones he has scored have been extraordinary in technique, but he hasn't scored as many as people think. The ones he has just stand out.

It strikes me that there are certain posters on this thread who binned JWP out a few years ago, decided he was no good and we should sell him for £10m to Watford. They obviously cannot come to admit they may have been wrong in their judgements and reassess their opinion, no chance. So they'll stand by steadfast in their original opinion from a few years ago when he was flitting in and out, not consistent enough and not imposing on games. He's not the same player anymore though. It's ok to admit that you may have been wrong a few years ago, no one is going to crucify you for it.

In the last 18 months to 2 years he has gone up levels in both consistency and influence on the pitch. I struggled to understand JWP's role a few years ago, we had managers such as Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who just had no idea what to do with him either. Ralph has come in and has understood what he can bring and JWP has taken this onboard and has moved his game up so many levels, I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

It's getting to a stage now where I think 'big clubs' will be looking at him as a big transfer.

[saint77]

1 hour ago, JustinSFC said:

Phillipe Coutinho is on that chart at the top in terms of conversions.

If you didn't see that chart and I asked you straight out..right now...who was the best Free kick taker in the world would you have replied to me Coutinho?

2 years out of date 

[Mosin]

1 hour ago, JustinSFC said:

We went top of the league this season, we were statistically the best.

Taking covid out of it, who at that time would have been sat in the pub saying "Southampton are the best team"..

Nobody. Except over the top fans from our fanbase even then, it would be probably less than 10.

In my eyes, the "best" is judged based on what get's talked about by fans without needing great big hoofwanking bar charts with percentile conversion rates on them.

But that's just me and my own individual opinion.

Doesn't mean I'm right but I can reserve the right to say James Ward-Prowse is nowhere near talked about in regards to free kicks in the same way Ronaldo is.

Because irrespective of statistics, if you asked 99% of fans on the street in the entire world (because you have to if you're saying the worlds best) most would have ronaldo's name in there more often than Ward-Prowse.
 

"They have the best free-kick taker I have seen in my life in [James] Ward-Prowse,” Guardiola told the BBC. “
Said Pep Guardiola

i dont even dare to trhink of teh players he has seen taking a free kick, but it has to be some list including Messi and Ronaldo.

 

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I've never classed Ronaldo as a great free kick taker, it was just another element to his amazing list of things he can do - but it wasn't his main ability. The ones he has scored have been extraordinary in technique, but he hasn't scored as many as people think. The ones he has just stand out.

It strikes me that there are certain posters on this thread who binned JWP out a few years ago, decided he was no good and we should sell him for £10m to Watford. They obviously cannot come to admit they may have been wrong in their judgements and reassess their opinion, no chance. So they'll stand by steadfast in their original opinion from a few years ago when he was flitting in and out, not consistent enough and not imposing on games. He's not the same player anymore though. It's ok to admit that you may have been wrong a few years ago, no one is going to crucify you for it.

In the last 18 months to 2 years he has gone up levels in both consistency and influence on the pitch. I struggled to understand JWP's role a few years ago, we had managers such as Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes who just had no idea what to do with him either. Ralph has come in and has understood what he can bring and JWP has taken this onboard and has moved his game up so many levels, I don't think anyone can disagree with that.

It's getting to a stage now where I think 'big clubs' will be looking at him as a big transfer.

Very good assessment Clarkey.     I am one of those posters who up until 18 months ago couldn't see the fuss that was made about JWP outside of his corners and free kicks.    Through a succession of Managers he never seemed to find a position nor a consistent quality in his general play - at least in my eyes he couldn't.      But I have reassessed my opinion, and it is wrong to compare the pre-Ralph version of JWP with the current player.   I would still argue that his outfield game is way below the quality of his dead ball delivery - he has however narrowed the gap by making the CM position his own and building on his energy and work rate with pressing, tackling, interceptions and a better range of passing.

Long may it continue, and as you hint at, it's going to be interesting to see whether "big club" offers come in.

[S-Clarke]

29 minutes ago, austsaint said:

Very good assessment Clarkey.     I am one of those posters who up until 18 months ago couldn't see the fuss that was made about JWP outside of his corners and free kicks.    Through a succession of Managers he never seemed to find a position nor a consistent quality in his general play - at least in my eyes he couldn't.      But I have reassessed my opinion, and it is wrong to compare the pre-Ralph version of JWP with the current player.   I would still argue that his outfield game is way below the quality of his dead ball delivery - he has however narrowed the gap by making the CM position his own and building on his energy and work rate with pressing, tackling, interceptions and a better range of passing.

Long may it continue, and as you hint at, it's going to be interesting to see whether "big club" offers come in.

He sometimes doesn't look like he's doing a great deal in general play, but his distance covered and general running around the pitch is impressive to say the least - we've got no one who comes close. His energy levels and fitness are just on another planet.

You're never going to get Xavi or Inestia like playmaking from JWP, but you will get someone who can operate in that pivot/number 6 they call it and recycle the ball with accuracy and maintain a tempo. He barely gives it away nowadays, even in tight situations he's got the ability on the ball to control and move it at pace. His whole game has come on a level and a lot of what he does 'in play' can sometimes go unnoticed I feel.