Russell Martin

[Andrew Watson]

You do not keep Burnley in the Premier League for 6 seasons if you are a poor manager.

[Lord Duckhunter]

14 hours ago, Andrew Watson said:

You do not keep Burnley in the Premier League for 6 seasons if you are a poor manager.

And he took them into Europe. Completely different level of manager than Lego head….

[notnowcato]

16 hours ago, Andrew Watson said:

You do not keep Burnley in the Premier League for 6 seasons if you are a poor manager.

Did anyone call him poor?  One dimensional was the accusation, which is probably not far from the truth.  The change in Everton since Moyes joined doesn't reflect that well on Dyche. 

[notnowcato]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

And he took them into Europe. Completely different level of manager than Lego head….

Yeah.... them apples are just not oranges are they.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

Did anyone call him poor?  One dimensional was the accusation, which is probably not far from the truth.  The change in Everton since Moyes joined doesn't reflect that well on Dyche. 

They touched on this in Dyche's interview.

His point was that managers with a "philosophy" get a free pass that he never did, playing what he felt would secure a place in the division.

If we knew how Martin (I know you're a supporter, so just using this as an example) sets out to play every game, is that not one dimensional too? Ralph had his playbook, and Juric his own things he wanted. Nate doesn't count, as he was a basket case, where the oncoming subs turned round to ask for clarity. 🙂

Does "one dimensional" and "philosophy" extend beyond results, into personal/ generational/cultural preference?*

(Deep football philosophy questions kindly supplied by @gio1saints 🙂)

[Fabrice29]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

And he took them into Europe. Completely different level of manager than Lego head….

Nobody is denying those facts but if you’re going to go on a podcast and  mock/call out specific managers and their ways of working you probably want to make sure you’ve got a better record than 3 played but 3 defeats against those managers tbh. 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, notnowcato said:

Yeah.... them apples are just not oranges are they.

Quite right. You can't compare completely different things. Like a proven, established successful Premier League manager and a dogshit one who has won one PL game in his career.

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

How does any club genuinely think this person is a good manager? Not even in the championship.

The good news is that if Leicester take him, then we'll have a better chance against them next year.

[Toussaint]

5 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

How does any club genuinely think this person is a good manager? Not even in the championship.

The good news is that if Leicester take him, then we'll have a better chance against them next year.

Russel Martina + points deduction, farewell Leicester! 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

38 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Russel Martina + points deduction, farewell Leicester! 

But what I didn't appreciate was that because the Premier League and the Championship are run by two different entities, if Leicester are given a points deduction, they can only be deducted points in the premier league because that's where they committed the so-called offence. So they won't get a points deduction in the Championship.

They'll still be shit with RM in charge.

[Toussaint]

35 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

But what I didn't appreciate was that because the Premier League and the Championship are run by two different entities, if Leicester are given a points deduction, they can only be deducted points in the premier league because that's where they committed the so-called offence. So they won't get a points deduction in the Championship.

They'll still be shit with RM in charge.

From the Echo 

LEICESTER City have been charged by the Premier League for alleged financial breaches in the 2023/24 campaign and could face a points deduction. 

 

The case, which will be heard by an independent commission, relates to the club allegedly breaking profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) when they were in the Championship last season.

If found guilty the Foxes, who will play in the second tier again next term following relegation, could be handed a points deduction, and any points deductions can apply in the Championship.

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

From the Echo 

 

LEICESTER City have been charged by the Premier League for alleged financial breaches in the 2023/24 campaign and could face a points deduction. 

 

The case, which will be heard by an independent commission, relates to the club allegedly breaking profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) when they were in the Championship last season.

If found guilty the Foxes, who will play in the second tier again next term following relegation, could be handed a points deduction, and any points deductions can apply in the Championship.

My understanding was that Leicester were sitting on something like losses of £200M for the 3 year window closing last season. What i am struggling to understand is how they've got away with it so far, but i think they are well and truly cooked now. Points deduction this season, and a points deduction if they get promoted.

[Matthew Le God]

4 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

But what I didn't appreciate was that because the Premier League and the Championship are run by two different entities, if Leicester are given a points deduction, they can only be deducted points in the premier league because that's where they committed the so-called offence. So they won't get a points deduction in the Championship.

They'll still be shit with RM in charge.

The rules have changed. 

"The EFL has confirmed to The Times that any sporting sanction imposed by an independent commission can be applied in the Championship, where Leicester will play in the 2025-26 campaign after being relegated this season."

https://www.thetimes.com/article/633ca675-7c48-472a-b921-09c96d499333?shareToken=dec63d3c0deffbd2d7811382d5a9bc05

 

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The rules have changed. 

"The EFL has confirmed to The Times that any sporting sanction imposed by an independent commission can be applied in the Championship, where Leicester will play in the 2025-26 campaign after being relegated this season."

https://www.thetimes.com/article/633ca675-7c48-472a-b921-09c96d499333?shareToken=dec63d3c0deffbd2d7811382d5a9bc05

 

 

Excellent. So Leicester really are in freefall!

[coalman]

7 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Excellent. So Leicester really are in freefall!

They won't truly be in freefall until they appoint Martin.

[AlexLaw76]

Martin will do well with Leicester in this league. 
 

But they will expected top 2 minimum (points deduction depending), which is where he may fall short. Then again, he may have learnt a bit since his premier league debacle 

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Martin will do well with Leicester in this league. 
 

But they will expected top 2 minimum (points deduction depending), which is where he may fall short. Then again, he may have learnt a bit since his premier league debacle 

From what he has said since he left and his total refusal to take any responsibility for his part in our demise, I seriously doubt it. 

[notnowcato]

49 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

From what he has said since he left and his total refusal to take any responsibility for his part in our demise, I seriously doubt it. 

As opposed to everyone else who has owned up to a very predictable season. 

[Toussaint]

41 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

As opposed to everyone else who has owned up to a very predictable season. 

What?

[gio1saints]

On 16/05/2025 at 16:34, Holmes_and_Watson said:

They touched on this in Dyche's interview.

His point was that managers with a "philosophy" get a free pass that he never did, playing what he felt would secure a place in the division.

If we knew how Martin (I know you're a supporter, so just using this as an example) sets out to play every game, is that not one dimensional too? Ralph had his playbook, and Juric his own things he wanted. Nate doesn't count, as he was a basket case, where the oncoming subs turned round to ask for clarity. 🙂

Does "one dimensional" and "philosophy" extend beyond results, into personal/ generational/cultural preference?*

(Deep football philosophy questions kindly supplied by @gio1saints 🙂)

@Holmes_and_WatsonCouldn’t resist….

“One-dimensional” and “philosophy” overlap. Culturally, generationally and football tactically.

Philosophy is a term of abuse on this and many fan forums but that’s largely ( though will be denied) because ( big generalisation coming up so please spare me the pitchforks) whatever the average football supporter does not understand, he instinctively hates.

Guardiola plays a philosophy based football that is arguably quite close to one dimensional - if by that term you mean there’s only a plan A and just keep doing it til we breakthrough  …RM tried copying. Guardiola wins -loved, RM loses- hated. It wasn’t the philosophy - it was the results - yet the term seems inextricably linked to negative sentiment - unless you win of course in which case it’s being a genius manager or have great players. 
 

Mourinho is at other end of the spectrum. There’s little “philosophy” and any winning tactic goes. His pragmatic football may be described as the opposite of philosophy football if you like ( though whisper it quietly and don’t tell the children but Pragmatism is ALSO a Philosophy) . It’s even been called “ anti-football”.
 

Both approaches are, were, and will continue to be, successful. 

Football idealists and dreamers prefer the former, football realists tend towards the latter. Saints fans are a mixed batch and the sentiment slides up and down a scale. Currently the scale says many fans want pragmatic realism. It may be the right thing at this time. But it should not be the right thing ALL the time or else football will just become extinct and die. It must continually reinvent itself to survive and thrive - and without the dreamers idealists, and yes “philosophy ” there’s no creativity, no art, no beautiful game. 

 

 

 

Edited May 21 by gio1saints

[CSA96]

Russell Martin set to be appointed Leicester City manager

[trousers]

3 hours ago, notnowcato said:

As opposed to everyone else who has owned up to a very predictable season. 

House!

[CSA96]

 

[Suhari]

4 minutes ago, CSA96 said:

 

Fuck me. Not sure that's a good move.

Maresca was a possession-junky I think....not sure about RvN. I wonder what lego-head has learnt in his time away.

How many times will he say 'scar tissue' in his first few post-match interviews!!?

[Barsiem]

I guess this gets him off our wage bill?

If he's learnt a bit from his time with us then not the worst appointment for Leicester.  They'll get some hidings though...

[vectraman]

14 hours ago, gio1saints said:

@Holmes_and_WatsonCouldn’t resist….

“One-dimensional” and “philosophy” overlap. Culturally, generationally and football tactically.

Philosophy is a term of abuse on this and many fan forums but that’s largely ( though will be denied) because ( big generalisation coming up so please spare me the pitchforks) whatever the average football supporter does not understand, he instinctively hates.

Guardiola plays a philosophy based football that is arguably quite close to one dimensional - if by that term you mean there’s only a plan A and just keep doing it til we breakthrough  …RM tried copying. Guardiola wins -loved, RM loses- hated. It wasn’t the philosophy - it was the results - yet the term seems inextricably linked to negative sentiment - unless you win of course in which case it’s being a genius manager or have great players. 
 

Mourinho is at other end of the spectrum. There’s little “philosophy” and any winning tactic goes. His pragmatic football may be described as the opposite of philosophy football if you like ( though whisper it quietly and don’t tell the children but Pragmatism is ALSO a Philosophy) . It’s even been called “ anti-football”.
 

Both approaches are, were, and will continue to be, successful. 

Football idealists and dreamers prefer the former, football realists tend towards the latter. Saints fans are a mixed batch and the sentiment slides up and down a scale. Currently the scale says many fans want pragmatic realism. It may be the right thing at this time. But it should not be the right thing ALL the time or else football will just become extinct and die. It must continually reinvent itself to survive and thrive - and without the dreamers idealists, and yes “philosophy ” there’s no creativity, no art, no beautiful game. 

 

 

 

I get your sentiment here - every manager has some kind of philosophy, even if they aren’t preaching it publicly. However, the Pep and Russel Martin possession way of playing may or in RM’s case may not be successful. More to the point, I believe the issue that fans have with it is that it is a very slow and turgid, boring even, method of play.  City V Saints and V Palace were so slow and dull. How many times as a City fan would you be saying for Christ sake shoot during a game. But no, another statistic pass will do instead. It’s a boring style of play.
This season City and obviously Saints as a City very light tribute team got found out and that style was pretty effectively thwarted by teams.

As a style a high press energetic fast break style of play is far more exciting to watch. Of course it can be countered, but that is where the pragmatic manager changes things during a game to help his team overcome tactical obstacles.

This is where the RM and even Pep ‘philosophy’ falls down. It’s my way or the highway, it WILL work and we will continue to do exactly the same thing every game. That is what football fans don’t like. We can see it isn’t working, but the manager’s philosophy is etched in stone and he simply will not change it.

Hence RM sacked. Championship - just about got away with his philosophy. Premier league with inadequate players up against good players, no chance. Most Saints fans could see this style simply would not work. It is now so ingrained that the players we have can’t seem to run, play fast passes, press, or last 90 minutes. Unfit, at top flight level is unforgivable, but they sure look the least fit team in the league.  
 

Whoever the next manager is I hope has a ‘pragmatic’ style and sets up differently for each match based on the opposition we are playing, not some rigid fixed unchangeable system…

Edited May 21 by vectraman

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

12 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I guess this gets him off our wage bill?

If he's learnt a bit from his time with us then not the worst appointment for Leicester.  They'll get some hidings though...

and some hideously boring football.

Would be a laugh seeing Vestegaard trying to play MartinBall. Maybe they could go for Captain Jack and Janny B to show them how its (not) done

[Saint_Jonny]

Who do we think Martin is likely to come in for at Saints, if anyone? And will any of our current lot throw their toys out of the pram in an attempt to join him at Leicester? 

Downes is the obvious candidate given how his head was turned in January.

Edited May 21 by Saint_Jonny

[sockeye]

2 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Who do we think Martin is likely to come in for at Saints, if anyone? And will any of our current lot throw their toys out of the pram in an attempt to join him at Leicester? 

Downes is the obvious candidate given how his head was turned in January.

Downes, Smallbone and Stephens please

 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

4 minutes ago, sockeye said:

Downes, Smallbone and Stephens please

 

Bazunu. They will need a martinball keeper right? 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

19 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Who do we think Martin is likely to come in for at Saints, if anyone? And will any of our current lot throw their toys out of the pram in an attempt to join him at Leicester? 

Downes is the obvious candidate given how his head was turned in January.

Smallbone key for linking up the play.

Bazunu key for icey coolness under pressure, and being the foundation of pinging the ball across the defence.

Downes was our key player for RussBall and loved working for Martin. Pricier than the rest though.

Armstrong - High work rate, versatility, and getting key goals from cut backs.

[The Kraken]

33 minutes ago, Barsiem said:

I guess this gets him off our wage bill?

If he's learnt a bit from his time with us then not the worst appointment for Leicester.  They'll get some hidings though...

He recently gave a long interview with Gary Lineker.  There’s a bit, around 52 - 53 minutes where he’s talking about his time with Saints in the PL and he says “I’ve learned a lot, but would I do things differently? No.”

Also said one of his main mistakes was changing formations too much.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

He recently gave a long interview with Gary Lineker.  There’s a bit, around 52 - 53 minutes where he’s talking about his time with Saints in the PL and he says “I’ve learned a lot, but would I do things differently? No.”

Also said one of his main mistakes was changing formations too much.

I remember all those times I was shouting "No! Don't change so much! Stick to your principles, Russ." 🙂

He made tweaks, well within what he held firmly to. He had commented that to change more, would have undermined everything he had been repeatedly trying to instill in the team. In a way, I'm glad he did that. It made it all the clearer what the outcome had to be.

 

[The Kraken]

He also said he thought our championship squad was better than our premier league squad. Not sure I agree but it’s a flipping sad indictment of a spend of £100M.

[coalman]

It's easy to see how this works for everyone. In Martin, Leicester are appointing a manager who is capable of dominating the league (or at least scraping the playoffs) with a superior team. Southampton get his wages off the balance sheet. And Martin puts himself in the shop window for the England job after Tuchel, a shot at one of the big six in the Premier League or, dare to whisper it, abroad at somewhere like Real or PSG. On top of that the players pining for his brand of tough love that he left behind at Southampton have a career route to fulfill their career aspirations of playing the brand of centre circle possession dominance that they all not so secretly yearn for.

[malcolm waldron]

32 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

He also said he thought our championship squad was better than our premier league squad. Not sure I agree but it’s a flipping sad indictment of a spend of £100M.

I've seen this reference before somewhere I think - and couldn't believe it at the time and I'm struggling to believe it now.  Who did we lose that summer?  Adams, Stuart Armstrong, Charlie A, Sekou Mara?  Probably some more (I'm too lazy to check) - but if you can't set out to replace that lot with something stronger then why bother.  Which is, in effect, what we did.....

[Football Special]

1 minute ago, malcolm waldron said:

I've seen this reference before somewhere I think - and couldn't believe it at the time and I'm struggling to believe it now.  Who did we lose that summer?  Adams, Stuart Armstrong, Charlie A, Sekou Mara?  Probably some more (I'm too lazy to check) - but if you can't set out to replace that lot with something stronger then why bother.  Which is, in effect, what we did.....

David Brooks 

Joe Rothwell 

[gio1saints]

I think it’s clever from LCFC. Won’t be a more motivated manager in that league than him. 

RM will attempt to leverage the points deduction up into a massive club wide grudge. His team indeed the whole club, will start with this “unfair” handicap in their heads and he will use this and his player relationship skills in particular to turn that grudge into a fighting against the odds tight squad and team.
 

He will then attempt to turn that tight team into a replica of his last championship team playing possession based football but with tweaks. I expect interesting times! 
 

 

[Fabrice29]

8 minutes ago, malcolm waldron said:

I've seen this reference before somewhere I think - and couldn't believe it at the time and I'm struggling to believe it now.  Who did we lose that summer?  Adams, Stuart Armstrong, Charlie A, Sekou Mara?  Probably some more (I'm too lazy to check) - but if you can't set out to replace that lot with something stronger then why bother.  Which is, in effect, what we did.....

Brooks and Adams get in our team ahead of Onuachu and Sulemana all day long. It’s a piss poor selection to choose from though. 

[ant]

1 hour ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Who do we think Martin is likely to come in for at Saints, if anyone? And will any of our current lot throw their toys out of the pram in an attempt to join him at Leicester?

He can have a package deal for ~20 players (T&Cs: our selection), as far as I'm concerned.

A likely one not named thus far is his buddy Manning.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

4 minutes ago, ant said:

He can have a package deal for ~20 players (T&Cs: our selection), as far as I'm concerned.

A likely one not named thus far is his buddy Manning.

How about a Buy 1, Get 10 Free offer?

[Weston Super Saint]

41 minutes ago, coalman said:

It's easy to see how this works for everyone. In Martin, Leicester are appointing a manager who is capable of dominating the league (or at least scraping the playoffs) with a superior team. Southampton get his wages off the balance sheet. And Martin puts himself in the shop window for the England job after Tuchel, a shot at one of the big six in the Premier League or, dare to whisper it, abroad at somewhere like Real or PSG. On top of that the players pining for his brand of tough love that he left behind at Southampton have a career route to fulfill their career aspirations of playing the brand of centre circle possession dominance that they all not so secretly yearn for.

And Lucy moves to Leicester....

[Willo of Whiteley]

I’ve some on social media saying “well that’s Downes gone”, “well that’s Stephens gone” etc

In a nutshell, is that a bad thing? I also doubt they’re spending any money this window. 🤣

[warsash saint]

4 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I’ve some on social media saying “well that’s Downes gone”, “well that’s Stephens gone” etc

In a nutshell, is that a bad thing? I also doubt they’re spending any money this window. 🤣

Why does anyone want Downes gone?? - comfortably out best player in the Championship last time!!

[SambaMaverick]

2 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Why does anyone want Downes gone?? - comfortably out best player in the Championship last time!!

Because he's shown himself to be a turncoat cunt

If we get our money back, bite their hand off

[Toussaint]

3 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Why does anyone want Downes gone?? - comfortably out best player in the Championship last time!!

A motivated Downes would be an asset. But he seems to have spent a considerable part of the season sulking.

[sockeye]

6 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

Why does anyone want Downes gone?? - comfortably out best player in the Championship last time!!

His attitude is suspect

 

[beatlesaint]

11 minutes ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I’ve some on social media saying “well that’s Downes gone”, “well that’s Stephens gone” etc

In a nutshell, is that a bad thing? I also doubt they’re spending any money this window. 🤣

I am seriously praying he comes back for Captain Jack 💪

[coalman]

24 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And Lucy moves to Leicester....

Ok, so Lucy loses out by being forced to move to Leicester. The important thing is they're in love and happy to share that on social media.

[Disco Stu]

On 21/05/2025 at 11:51, Saint_Jonny said:

Who do we think Martin is likely to come in for at Saints, if anyone? And will any of our current lot throw their toys out of the pram in an attempt to join him at Leicester? 

Downes is the obvious candidate given how his head was turned in January.

“If I was looking to sign a goalkeeper, I would want to go and sign Gavin Bazunu for the way that we play. Gavin is going to be a great goalkeeper."

Let's see if he stands by that comment. 

Edited May 22 by Disco Stu