Russell Martin

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

careful, that's probably considered a hate crime these days. 

Wouldn't want someone calling the grass, sorry supporters, line on you. 

these days even posting about it on line could be considered a crime. 

[M271]

Interview with Russell that was shown on Sky before our match against Leicester. Nearly at the end of the interview at about 4.50 he talks about ‘ I might not do the job I’m asked of this season, it’s that tight, and then I could lose my job but this is football’ but hopes he gets time to build something here. I can’t seem to post a link but search Sky Sports Russell Martin interview to view.

[AlexLaw76]

4 minutes ago, M271 said:

Interview with Russell that was shown on Sky before our match against Leicester. Nearly at the end of the interview at about 4.50 he talks about ‘ I might not do the job I’m asked of this season, it’s that tight, and then I could lose my job but this is football’ but hopes he gets time to build something here. I can’t seem to post a link but search Sky Sports Russell Martin interview to view.

Build what here? He starts again next season no matter what league we are in…… if he is fortunate enough to keep his job!

[Lee On Solent Saint]

46 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

In all seriousness, there has been multiple times this season when the side have been booed / jeered. Some serious rose tinted glasses or wilful ignorance going on by anyone that doesn't acknowledge it.

And its little different to last season tbh, we had a young an inexperienced side under Ralph, lots of chat about giving them time over pre season, and then the first game at SMS there was booing and jeering. Watford(h) a couple of weeks ago was another good example - as soon as they equalised the ground was silent... the league 1/champ/early prem crowds from our previous rise would have immediatley cheered the side on.. and then in was a must win game, at home, where we were chasing a winner, we had some fans leaving early, and jeering and boos from the stands because the side wasn't "hoofing" it forwards and was instead playing our current patient style - which ultimately allowed us to build pressure and get the goal. It gets forgotten about because we scored a last minute winner, but the toxicity and shit support is always there, right beneath the surface. Long gone are the days of the league 1 crowds cheering us up the leagues and responding to goals against by immediatley roaring the team on...

Middlesbrough game recently (another must win), the fans kicked off chanting "you don't know what you're doing" at one of the stewards and then booing, happened simultaneously to a substitute coming on and visibly knocked the side when we needed to get a winner - our home support is toxic. The team are sensitive to it. And its been called out and/or alluded to numerous times by the manager/players over the season.

Surely though what is served up on the pitch is going to have a effect on the crowd? The way we have played at times this season has been flat and so pedestrian that it's little wonder that the atmosphere has been the same. And why shouldn't Martin be criticised when he fails to react to situations?

[Toussaint]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

I still can't figure out if he's blissfully ignorant as to how pompous he comes across or if he's just one of those 'performance artists' that we see on here from time-to-time... either way, its splendid entertainment value...

I think he’s probably a very decent bloke who gets overly animated when the rest of the world doesn’t share his view, which is not a great place to be for the sake of one’s mental health. 

[Saint86]

15 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Surely though what is served up on the pitch is going to have a effect on the crowd? The way we have played at times this season has been flat and so pedestrian that it's little wonder that the atmosphere has been the same. And why shouldn't Martin be criticised when he fails to react to situations?

The way we've played this season has also been superb at times. We've destroyed some teams with ridiculous numbers of attempts on goal (champ records possibly even?), played some very fluid and attractive possession football, and set a club record unbeaten run 🤷‍♂️.

Also, the whole "product on the pitch" vs "fan support" / entitlement to boo is a very cyclical argument tbh.

Regardless though, there is a difference between being a paying customer and expressing negative views, and then pretending that it hasn't happened 🤷‍♂️ (which is the post i was responding to).

[Saint86]

45 minutes ago, M271 said:

Interview with Russell that was shown on Sky before our match against Leicester. Nearly at the end of the interview at about 4.50 he talks about ‘ I might not do the job I’m asked of this season, it’s that tight, and then I could lose my job but this is football’ but hopes he gets time to build something here. I can’t seem to post a link but search Sky Sports Russell Martin interview to view.

I noticed that. Ultimately he's still a young/inexperienced manager - its his first time with a club of this size and with the pressure of achieving promotion. Which is born out by a lot of what he says and how he often reacts to setbacks/praise.

[Wade Garrett]

56 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

The way we've played this season has also been superb at times. We've destroyed some teams with ridiculous numbers of attempts on goal (champ records possibly even?), played some very fluid and attractive possession football, and set a club record unbeaten run 🤷‍♂️.

Also, the whole "product on the pitch" vs "fan support" / entitlement to boo is a very cyclical argument tbh.

Regardless though, there is a difference between being a paying customer and expressing negative views, and then pretending that it hasn't happened 🤷‍♂️ (which is the post i was responding to).

To be fair, I can’t stand Martin as our manager but not once have I, or anyone around me, booed him or the team this season.

I think this is a bit of a red herring.  We may not be massively enthusiastic as a support but this season, we’re not negative either.

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

Jones got shit from practically the first game. Fans weren't having him and never gave him a chance (not saying he was right for us btw). We're the performances we dished up against forest etc. any worse than some of what weve seen this season? Ipswich home, sunderland away, leicester home and away etc. 

Im not so sure. 

That Forest game was bad especially coming after Fulham away where we played some great stuff and would have won had Perraud not missed 2 good chances then last minute free header cost us, it was chalk and cheese those 2 games.

What turned a lot on him was the They and not we in interviews plus that training session that sounded like u12s Romeo done Ffs!

[S-Clarke]

10 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Hi all of you now in SF heaven.
 

Some of you are getting your kicks out of Russell and team bashing. Better than any Pompey fans you lot are at it. Egging each other on with who can say the nastiest things. 
 

Last time I checked we are fourth in this league. playoff certainties. Have played some great stuff all season mixed in with our usual saintly fuck ups. Still can go up with a few wins. Not bottom three and abject failures all season like last year. 
 

This lynch mob like anger against him - and team - and any who stand in your way defending them is classic bully behaviour. 
 

If you want to know the real reason some of our coastal neighbours call us  “scum” sone of you need only reread the wretchedly vile abuse some of you post about Russell Martin, his team, our club, on here.

I will be there on Saturday to support like all season. Thankfully many of you will not but there will still be some who feel negative support is what’s best to get us through the play offs. 
 

For the rest - and it’s the vast majority we will be giving him and team max support to regain some confidence and set us up for play offs.
 

If you are coming to SMS Saturday to boo hiss shout abuse at Russell and the team etc then my advice is stay at home. We don’t need you. 

I think there have been some very reasoned posts in this thread. I had my doubts when he was appointed, he didn't feel the right fit, but you had to get behind him which 99% of us did at that point. The start we had didn't help the nerves, but the recovery and the unbeaten run steadied the ship and brought a lot of us some hope, but the failings at the start of the season were still nagging in the back of most of our minds.

Sadly all of those nagging doubts have come rushing back since February, we went 26 games without losing and have now lost 7 in the last 15 which is absolutley bloody horrific and has killed our season. The concerns the fans have are valid in my opinion, a genuine promotion candidate cannot concede in excess of 60 goals - it just doesn't compute. Those goals have come across the entire season, we started it with a 5-0 thrashing and have ended it with another - so in my opinion the fans have got genuine reason to ask wtf is going on.

As a team with THB, KWP, Bednarek, Downes etc in the defensive third....we should not be conceding over 60 goals. I know the counter argument some like to play is that these players are shit, they conceded goals whenever they are etc - but this is a level down, they are internationals of varying levels and they are good enough to not be letting in the amount of goals they are. The fundamental issue is our approach in my opinion, no matter how much Martin denies it.

1) - We are wide open, we attack and we push high and leave our CB's playing as midfielders, full backs as attackers etc. When a team press us well and they transition well we are exploited, the gaps are there for all to see. It's been a clear target that oppositions have hit us with - press us, transition with pace and we're done for. It's like groundhog day.

2) - We're too interested with just keeping the ball for keeping the ball sake and passively trying to win the ball back ourselves to transition. This has lead to us standing off so much in the hope we can nick it without fouling, but teams are quick to that and the top sides like Leicester, Ipswich, Hull etc have players who can do a quick 1 - 2 and dance around our passive approach. We fanny around with it in areas of danger and we are pressured to within an inch our life now, it's not about being brave it's being bloody stupid.

There's nothing wrong with possession football as an approach, but you cannot build an entire philosophy just on that. The basis of football is keeping the ball, but a philosophy needs to evolve beyond that - and that just hasn't happened here.

Edited April 25 by S-Clarke

[Saint NL]

Interesting to see Brighton getting taken apart by City. They're playing around on their own box, and City press them and steal the ball. 

3-0 after 34 mins and that's with far superior players than saints have. We would be slaughtered if we got promoted.

[CB Fry]

11 hours ago, gio1saints said:

Hi all of you now in SF heaven.
 

Some of you are getting your kicks out of Russell and team bashing. Better than any Pompey fans you lot are at it. Egging each other on with who can say the nastiest things. 
 

Last time I checked we are fourth in this league. playoff certainties. Have played some great stuff all season mixed in with our usual saintly fuck ups. Still can go up with a few wins. Not bottom three and abject failures all season like last year. 
 

This lynch mob like anger against him - and team - and any who stand in your way defending them is classic bully behaviour. 
 

If you want to know the real reason some of our coastal neighbours call us  “scum” sone of you need only reread the wretchedly vile abuse some of you post about Russell Martin, his team, our club, on here.

I will be there on Saturday to support like all season. Thankfully many of you will not but there will still be some who feel negative support is what’s best to get us through the play offs. 
 

For the rest - and it’s the vast majority we will be giving him and team max support to regain some confidence and set us up for play offs.
 

If you are coming to SMS Saturday to boo hiss shout abuse at Russell and the team etc then my advice is stay at home. We don’t need you. 

Sorry I have been busy today. 

Anyway.

 

 

Jesus wept.

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Sorry I have been busy today. 

Anyway.

 

 

Jesus wept.

And there was me anticipating you being sympathetic to @gio1saints's plight....

Edited April 25 by trousers

[trousers]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I think there have been some very reasoned posts in this thread. I had my doubts when he was appointed, he didn't feel the right fit, but you had to get behind him which 99% of us did at that point. The start we had didn't help the nerves, but the recovery and the unbeaten run steadied the ship and brought a lot of us some hope, but the failings at the start of the season were still nagging in the back of most of our minds.

Sadly all of those nagging doubts have come rushing back since February, we went 26 games without losing and have now lost 7 in the last 15 which is absolutley bloody horrific and has killed our season. The concerns the fans have are valid in my opinion, a genuine promotion candidate cannot concede in excess of 60 goals - it just doesn't compute. Those goals have come across the entire season, we started it with a 5-0 thrashing and have ended it with another - so in my opinion the fans have got genuine reason to ask wtf is going on.

As a team with THB, KWP, Bednarek, Downes etc in the defensive third....we should not be conceding over 60 goals. I know the counter argument some like to play is that these players are shit, they conceded goals whenever they are etc - but this is a level down, they are internationals of varying levels and they are good enough to not be letting in the amount of goals they are. The fundamental issue is our approach in my opinion, no matter how much Martin denies it.

1) - We are wide open, we attack and we push high and leave our CB's playing as midfielders, full backs as attackers etc. When a team press us well and they transition well we are exploited, the gaps are there for all to see. It's been a clear target that oppositions have hit us with - press us, transition with pace and we're done for. It's like groundhog day.

2) - We're too interested with just keeping the ball for keeping the ball sake and passively trying to win the ball back ourselves to transition. This has lead to us standing off so much in the hope we can nick it without fouling, but teams are quick to that and the top sides like Leicester, Ipswich, Hull etc have players who can do a quick 1 - 2 and dance around our passive approach. We fanny around with it in areas of danger and we are pressured to within an inch our life now, it's not about being brave it's being bloody stupid.

There's nothing wrong with possession football as an approach, but you cannot build an entire philosophy just on that. The basis of football is keeping the ball, but a philosophy needs to evolve beyond that - and that just hasn't happened here.

A reasonable and pragmatic post IMO. You're right, the vast majority of people on this forum have given Martin the benefit of the doubt over the course of the season... but the flaws in his approach are laid bare for all to see. It's difficult to defend him right now, despite the relatively positive season we've had overall. 

Edited April 25 by trousers

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Interesting to see Brighton getting taken apart by City. They're playing around on their own box, and City press them and steal the ball. 

3-0 after 34 mins and that's with far superior players than saints have. We would be slaughtered if we got promoted.

De Zerbi totally gone off the boil since everyone started banging on about how amazing Brighton were.

1 win in the last 8 league games and that was against a crap Forest team.

They're below Bournemouth now.

[Wade Garrett]

6 hours ago, The Cat said:

De Zerbi totally gone off the boil since everyone started banging on about how amazing Brighton were.

1 win in the last 8 league games and that was against a crap Forest team.

They're below Bournemouth now.

Another manager on his own personal vanity project.  Likes his team to play suicide ball in their own box just to try and make him look good to potential suitors.

 

[east-stand-nic]

11 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Interesting to see Brighton getting taken apart by City. They're playing around on their own box, and City press them and steal the ball. 

3-0 after 34 mins and that's with far superior players than saints have. We would be slaughtered if we got promoted.

Totally agree. So, it makes you wonder, what are the people at the top thinking? Are they aware of this or are they not watching and that bothered?

[Whitey Grandad]

5 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Totally agree. So, it makes you wonder, what are the people at the top thinking? Are they aware of this or are they not watching and that bothered?

Simply being in the Premier League massively increases their investment. Once there results don’t matter.

[Fan The Flames]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Simply being in the Premier League massively increases their investment. Once there results don’t matter.

They do, otherwise you will go down again. You can stay up if you are better than three other teams but Russball can't beat the top teams in this division.

[east-stand-nic]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Simply being in the Premier League massively increases their investment. Once there results don’t matter.

Actually, you are probably right here.....being a yo-yo club probably is better for them.

[Dman]

1 hour ago, east-stand-nic said:

Totally agree. So, it makes you wonder, what are the people at the top thinking? Are they aware of this or are they not watching and that bothered?

I think its pretty clear that they are trying to copy the model of the city group. We're trying to pick the 'best' that we can feasibly get from their group and by doing so, its resulting in either just grab players from their youth team and/or copy their playing style - both because neither of Shields or Wilcox had any experience at mens level (directorship) or of other clubs - its basically the defult of what they know. 

Oddly both, despite spending little to no time here to actually judge the impact / success, have gone on to get senior jobs at the biggest clubs in the country - So SR would probably argue that they'r edoing something right in their appointments...?

It's actually pretty mad when you think about it! but then again, United and Chelsea are more of a basket case than we are atm. 

Edited April 26 by Dman

[notnowcato]

13 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Interesting to see Brighton getting taken apart by City. They're playing around on their own box, and City press them and steal the ball. 

3-0 after 34 mins and that's with far superior players than saints have. We would be slaughtered if we got promoted.

What’s more Interesting is that you’re judging a team based on one performance when the previous 18 months have been pretty spectacular despite losing £200m worth of talent.

[notnowcato]

1 hour ago, east-stand-nic said:

Totally agree. So, it makes you wonder, what are the people at the top thinking? Are they aware of this or are they not watching and that bothered?

Yeah Tony Bloom must be fucking gutted, taking a team from the Withdean to Europa league football, what a fucking disaster. 

[Dr. Kucho]

41 minutes ago, east-stand-nic said:

Actually, you are probably right here.....being a yo-yo club probably is better for them.

Is that you Dalek2003? 

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

What’s more Interesting is that you’re judging a team based on one performance when the previous 18 months have been pretty spectacular despite losing £200m worth of talent.

They've won 3 PL games this calandar year...

As a side note, despite having nowhere near the same relative quality at the back as us, other than a couple of drubbings, they conceed way less goals than we do. 

Edited April 26 by Dman

[gio1saints]

You don’t win a match in your six yard box but you can certainly lose it- very easily. Brighton last night was as extreme an example of PB dogma as I’ve seen - on a par with Saints early season gaffes. 

It was Howard Wilkinson who helped pioneer the attitude that the more often the ball is in your opponents danger zone the more likely you are to score. The first science and data based approach to English football really. It launched an era of essentially hard running big players in long ball football. But also launched a heavy reliance on data collection and analysis. 
 
Saints (and Brighton last night) PB football are examples of extreme football dogma - data analysis rules. The PB style was originally based on multi title winning Barcelona. But like all winning styles it’s been researched to bits and most tacticians / coaches can effectively counter it - caveat at highest levels. 
 

Not in our league though imo - yet. PB football has not been ineffective in the championship. Burnley walked it last season playing that way - but clearly it’s not been effective enough for us to be one of the best two teams this season. 

There is a distinction between the style and the efficacy of its application that is ignored constantly. Especially on this forum.  Man City play an extremely effective PB football style. 
 

What this season is showing me is that the PB style IS good enough to be there or thereabouts to get out this league but that it absolutely needs to evolve to survive in the EPL - and given that we are not guaranteed ProMotion this year that evolution almost certainly needed to be accelerated earlier in this season. 
 

Why it was not is conjecture but perhaps was more a combination of bad luck ( if our big new CF was not injured in particular ) and a uniquely strong top four in this league this season - more than a rubbish manager and a bad style of football - imo of course. 

 

Edited April 26 by gio1saints

[Dman]

1 minute ago, gio1saints said:

You don’t win a match in your six yard box but you can certainly lose it- very easily. Brighton last night was as extreme an example of PB dogma as I’ve seen - on a par with Saints early season gaffes. 

It was Howard Wilkinson who helped pioneer the attitude that the more often the ball is in your opponents danger zone the more likely you are to score. The first science and data based approach to English football really. It launched an era of essentially hard running big players in long ball football. But also launched a heavy reliance on data collection and analysis. 
 
Saints (and Brighton last night) PB football are examples of extreme football dogma - data analysis rules. The PB style was originally based on multi title winning Barcelona. But like all winning styles it’s been researched to bits and most tacticians / coaches can effectively counter it - caveat at highest levels. 
 

Not in our league though imo - yet. PB football has not been ineffective in the championship Burnley walked it last season playing that way - but clearly it’s not been effective enough for us to be one of the best two teams this season. 

There is a distinction between the style and the efficacy of its application that is ignored constantly. Especially on this forum.  Man City play an extremely effective PB football style. 
 

What this season is showing me is that the PB style IS good enough to be there or thereabouts to get out this league but that it absolutely needs to evolve to survive in the EPL - and given that we are not guaranteed ProMotion this year that it almost certainly needs and needed that evolution to be accelerated earlier in the season. 
 

Why it was not perhaps is more a combination of bad luck ( if our big new CF was not injured in particular ) and a uniquely strong top four in this league this season more than a rubbish manager and a bad style of football - imo of course. 

 

But it has been for Leicester... So perhaps the issue is the manager? 

[manji]

13 hours ago, Saint NL said:

Interesting to see Brighton getting taken apart by City. They're playing around on their own box, and City press them and steal the ball. 

3-0 after 34 mins and that's with far superior players than saints have. We would be slaughtered if we got promoted.

If we go up. Don’t think RM will be around and SR ( yeah I know ) said we have contingency plans so we stay up and don’t wallow around in the relegation zone. Admittedly it might have been Jason Wilcox that said that 🤔 I don’t think so . 

[Toussaint]

5 minutes ago, manji said:

If we go up. Don’t think RM will be around and SR ( yeah I know ) said we have contingency plans so we stay up and don’t wallow around in the relegation zone. Admittedly it might have been Jason Wilcox that said that 🤔 I don’t think so . 

Why do you think that? Do you think he will be here next season if we don’t go up?

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, manji said:

If we go up. Don’t think RM will be around and SR ( yeah I know ) said we have contingency plans so we stay up and don’t wallow around in the relegation zone. Admittedly it might have been Jason Wilcox that said that 🤔 I don’t think so . 

Surely after being made to look a mug time and time again, you're not still beleiving the crap they are coming out with 😂

 

[notnowcato]

18 minutes ago, Dman said:

They've won 3 PL games this calandar year... 

And this shows the difference between those that see the bigger picture and those that shit the bed after a few bad results. 

[manji]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

But it has been for Leicester... So perhaps the issue is the manager? 

IMO Russell Martin is a good manager. He has some great ideas. I reckon it was too much too soon for him. Far too much pressure. 
convinced he will go at the end of the season. I keep on mentioning the ruthlessness of SR ditching a good manager when Goztepe were near the top of the league and replaced him with a better manager without the previous guys flaws. Yes it’s a different league but Goztepe have the biggest fanbase in Turkey and the fans take no prisoners.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

You don’t win a match in your six yard box but you can certainly lose it- very easily. Brighton last night was as extreme an example of PB dogma as I’ve seen - on a par with Saints early season gaffes. 

It was Howard Wilkinson who helped pioneer the attitude that the more often the ball is in your opponents danger zone the more likely you are to score. The first science and data based approach to English football really. It launched an era of essentially hard running big players in long ball football. But also launched a heavy reliance on data collection and analysis. 
 
Saints (and Brighton last night) PB football are examples of extreme football dogma - data analysis rules. The PB style was originally based on multi title winning Barcelona. But like all winning styles it’s been researched to bits and most tacticians / coaches can effectively counter it - caveat at highest levels. 
 

Not in our league though imo - yet. PB football has not been ineffective in the championship. Burnley walked it last season playing that way - but clearly it’s not been effective enough for us to be one of the best two teams this season. 

There is a distinction between the style and the efficacy of its application that is ignored constantly. Especially on this forum.  Man City play an extremely effective PB football style. 
 

What this season is showing me is that the PB style IS good enough to be there or thereabouts to get out this league but that it absolutely needs to evolve to survive in the EPL - and given that we are not guaranteed ProMotion this year that evolution almost certainly needed to be accelerated earlier in this season. 
 

Why it was not is conjecture but perhaps was more a combination of bad luck ( if our big new CF was not injured in particular ) and a uniquely strong top four in this league this season - more than a rubbish manager and a bad style of football - imo of course. 

 

I’m pleased to see that you’re coming around to appreciate that PB football is an end in itself and not a means to an end. Your first sentence sums it all up for me. My philosophy is to keep the ball as far away from your own goal as possible and as close to the opposition’s as you can.

I don’t think that the unavailability of our new CF was the problem. We have scored sufficient goals but one look at the number of goals conceded should give everyone the shudders.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, manji said:

IMO Russell Martin is a good manager. He has some great ideas. I reckon it was too much too soon for him. Far too much pressure. 
convinced he will go at the end of the season. I keep on mentioning the ruthlessness of SR ditching a good manager when Goztepe were near the top of the league and replaced him with a better manager without the previous guys flaws. Yes it’s a different league but Goztepe have the biggest fanbase in Turkey and the fans take no prisoners.

 

After the face with Jones, there is absolutely no way we'll be sacking Martin until shit really hits the fan. I.e christmas next year when we're mid-table. 

We're stuck with the idiot for a little while longer. 

[manji]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Surely after being made to look a mug time and time again, you're not still beleiving the crap they are coming out with 😂

 

Enough with the jibes. It’s only my opinion and at least it’s makes a change from the tedious scapegoat sh* te on here.  I am questioning what I’ve said previously I was convinced RM was the perfect fit. I thought Jason Wilcox was our future.

Whats wrong with an alternative opinion ? 
Tell you another thing I havnt a clue what you post except for your occasional crowd pleasing jibes against me . 

[manji]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

After the face with Jones, there is absolutely no way we'll be sacking Martin until shit really hits the fan. I.e christmas next year when we're mid-table. 

We're stuck with the idiot for a little while longer. 

Alright……..I can’t see us sticking with him . I really can’t.

[Dman]

4 minutes ago, notnowcato said:

And this shows the difference between those that see the bigger picture and those that shit the bed after a few bad results. 

I was just pointing out its not 1 performance.

I think we're kinda on the same side here. I've no issue with us wanting to be a team who plays out from the back and wants to dominate the ball. I'd love for us to have success playing that way. 

Russell Martin however is not the man to deliver that. You need to find the right balance. Martin is far to intent on keeping the ball and forgetting about the fact you need to stop teams from scoring the other end of the pitch. Fundimentially, we're too slow in our build up, which means we need to throw too many numbers forward leaving us vunerable at the back end of the pitch. 

If you want to talk about 'bigger picture' look at the stats. Disgusting amount of goals conceeded at Swansea, disgusting amount of goals conceeded here. That would suggest there is a fundimental flaw in his set up, which to date at 3 clubs he's been unable to resolve.  

[Dman]

Just now, manji said:

Alright……..I can’t see us sticking with him . I really can’t.

Based on this alone, I'd say its nailed on hes here come the first game next season. 

[gio1saints]

11 minutes ago, Dman said:

But it has been for Leicester... So perhaps the issue is the manager? 

Yes LCFC play PB football. More effectively than us. So perhaps the issue IS the Manager. 

Looking at overall context  I think that there are equally strong or stronger other factors that have influenced the results other than maybe Maresca > Martin. 

One strong candidate (for me) is that if we’d had a functioning proven goal scoring alternate to Che to rely on for this season we probably would have outscored our opponents enough to make up for whatever other defensive frailties we have shown playing this PB football under this Manager. 
There are others but either way , for multiple reasons we did not quite evolve ourselves enough and fast enough this season to be a top two team. I do not think this ( fairly) ranks as a “bad” manager and a “bad” style but hopefully it will be assessed and we learn enough from it to do better in the Championship  next season or the EPL if we do go up via playoffs. 

 

[Block41 Saint]

16 minutes ago, manji said:

Yes it’s a different league but Goztepe have the biggest fanbase in Turkey and the fans take no prisoners.

 

You what? 🤣

Edited April 26 by Block41 Saint

[Oldandtired]

Given the current style and level of play I think we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t at the moment. By that I mean if we do happen to be promoted because the manager seems unable to adapt his style of play no matter what players we manage to bring in like this season he will get found out pretty easily. I shudder to think what some of the top teams and managers would do to us. That’s the damned if we do.

The damned if we don’t is if we don’t get promoted playing the same style under RM when the loaners and more gifted players depart for greener pastures. We supposedly have one of the best squads in the championship but we still can’t make it work. Imagine trying goal area tippy tappy with even less capable players than we have at the moment.

I don’t doubt that RM is a very decent fellow, but that doesn’t make a capable football manager. IMO he has been found out latterly this season and his limitations have been laid bare for all to see.

Edited April 26 by Oldandtired

[Give it to Ron]

7 minutes ago, gio1saints said:

Yes LCFC play PB football. More effectively than us. So perhaps the issue IS the Manager. 

Looking at overall context  I think that there are equally strong or stronger other factors that have influenced the results other than maybe Maresca > Martin. 

One strong candidate (for me) is that if we’d had a functioning proven goal scoring alternate to Che to rely on for this season we probably would have outscored our opponents enough to make up for whatever other defensive frailties we have shown playing this PB football under this Manager. 
There are others but either way , for multiple reasons we did not quite evolve ourselves enough and fast enough this season to be a top two team. I do not think this ( fairly) ranks as a “bad” manager and a “bad” style but hopefully it will be assessed and we learn enough from it to do better in the Championship  next season or the EPL if we do go up via playoffs. 

 

But the issue for me is you cannot solely base all your games on that with no alternative. Surely you have to have a plan B other than swap personnel in the same shape?

How many games when struggling with this style have we switched and changed shape when the game demanded that?

[manji]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

I was just pointing out its not 1 performance.

I think we're kinda on the same side here. I've no issue with us wanting to be a team who plays out from the back and wants to dominate the ball. I'd love for us to have success playing that way. 

Russell Martin however is not the man to deliver that. You need to find the right balance. Martin is far to intent on keeping the ball and forgetting about the fact you need to stop teams from scoring the other end of the pitch. Fundimentially, we're too slow in our build up, which means we need to throw too many numbers forward leaving us vunerable at the back end of the pitch. 

If you want to talk about 'bigger picture' look at the stats. Disgusting amount of goals conceeded at Swansea, disgusting amount of goals conceeded here. That would suggest there is a fundimental flaw in his set up, which to date at 3 clubs he's been unable to resolve.  

OK good post . Apologies for my comment. I’m sure you’ll get over it. Like I have said RM isn’t the man for the job. I get his thinking but when it clearly isn’t working and has cost us an automatic promotion place it’s insane.

Another thing I always thought he had the players inline but his comments suggest to me he’s lost the dressing room . He hasn’t got the gravitas. 
A lot of these players have played international football. I’ve always thought Che always put in a far better performance for Scotland.

Stuey is a great leader but he’s going to see RM method ain’t working. Doubt whether he’s the type of guy that stirs the sh*t but 

 

[manji]

11 minutes ago, Block41 Saint said:

You what? 🤣

Yep a ridiculous comment . I’m pissed of and angry as well you know.

[manji]

6 minutes ago, manji said:

Yep a ridiculous comment . I’m pissed of and angry as well you know.

Top five in Turkey top in Lig 1 . I’m now trying to work out how they do promotion . They are second and are top of second half of the season current form. It takes my mind off Saints for a while.

[manji]

8 minutes ago, manji said:

Top five in Turkey top in Lig 1 . I’m now trying to work out how they do promotion . They are second and are top of second half of the season current form. It takes my mind off Saints for a while.

Top two automatic . The irony Goztepe sealed that with games to go. 

[Saint NL]

I feel like I'm missing something? What is PB Football?

[david in sweden]

11 hours ago, The Cat said:

De Zerbi totally gone off the boil since everyone started banging on about how amazing Brighton were.

1 win in the last 8 league games and that was against a crap Forest team.     They're below Bournemouth now.

So what constitutes " failure " from a fans perspective ?   Should we sack the guy because some fans think he's  "failed ".?

..so the question remains... should a manager who failed to get his Championship side promoted first time be sacked?

1) losing the club's best talents and (2) fielding a side half-full of new, untried youngsters and loan players, ultimately be

the right choice to keep a failing side in the Prem. ?. ... I doubt that  and so too

...(I suspect)...that the Brighton Board  have another problem in that having sold their best talents to the " big clubs "

in the last 2 years , and recouped  huge sums of money .(perhaps over 200 million) and failed to replace them, they

still haven't cured the basic problem,  and we've been down that road, too.  (Someone above)..  wrote that Martin was

 the Board's best choice " at the time "  perhaps he was?,  and if so what " success " have those who we rejected had ?     

 

I 'm saddened to read those on here ... who seem to think that there are good, experienced managers hanging

around the  " unemployed Manager's Job Centre " (or in their case..... on a beach or golf course somewhere) just

waiting for Saints to offer them the job... only for the fans to discover why they were unemployed in the first place. 

You can only employ someone who is available at the time, and often they just aren't there when you need them most.

( For better or worse, both Liverpool and Man. Utd, are about to find out the answer to that problem). 

 

Ronald Koeman was a good choice - at the time, but none of his successors have come anywhere near the success 

that his squad's had and got us European football .   Hasenhuttl  did minor miracles in keeping us up, whilst working 

with an empty transfer chest, and those who followed him were only waiting for lifejackets on a slowly-sinking ship

 

Looking at;  those players who are out of contract / unlikely to stay,.... and loan players returning to their parent clubs, or

signing elsewhere, next season's Saints squad will need another major overhaul, regardless of whichever league we are in.

IF ...it hasn't always shown it on the pitch,  I think RM has made a half-decent job .. given the tools he had from the start. 

He's worth another season in the Championship - if that's the outcome,  but a season back in the Prem?.. raises bigger issues.

  

 

 

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Saint NL said:

I feel like I'm missing something? What is PB Football?

Pointless balling

[Patrick Bateman]

Could be a big manager turnover this summer anyway, especially in the Premier League, it's become even more of a circus.  Liverpool, Man Utd, Newcastle, Brighton for sure.  You could probably add Chelsea and West Ham to that list and many others lower down.  So prepare for David Moyes or Eddie Howe being linked to Saints when Martin goes to Brighton 😂