Will Still

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Fabrice29 said:

I could probably find the exact same post you made about Nathan Jones for example who I think is currently sitting 6th in our league?

It's almost as if certain managers are OK at Championship level but out of their depth in the Premier League...

[Lee On Solent Saint]

7 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

You know when someone misses a chance and someone in the pub says "that gets scored 9 times out of 10"?

That's just another way of saying an XG of 0.9. 

I get where you are coming from. But seems to me we are putting too much faith in these stats. 

[Andy Hill]

We will need to score 2 probably 3 to win - I wouldn’t put one single penny on that.

[Saint86]

11 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

They must have genuinely thought Stewart would stay fit, which makes me wonder whether someone in the medical/sports science department who signed off on his fitness reliability will be given the boot. 

I have found myself wondering about our sports science department recently. Players keep getting injured through too much game time - and that is directly on the physios to sort out and advise. Similarly a number have been declared fit to play and then rule themselves out on a match day or after travelling etc as ill. Still is the easy target there - but the team around him must shoulder a lot of blame.

[Saint_clark]

5 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I get where you are coming from. But seems to me we are putting too much faith in these stats. 

There's no faith being put in anything. It's just another way of tracking certain stats. Our XG tells us that we are creating a lot of chances and some of them very good, but our finishing is poor - something we have all said anyway.

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

I have found myself wondering about our sports science department recently. Players keep getting injured through too much game time - and that is directly on the physios to sort out and advise. Similarly a number have been declared fit to play and then rule themselves out on a match day or after travelling etc as ill. Still is the easy target there - but the team around him must shoulder a lot of blame.

Agreed, gone are the days when the manager is in charge of everything. If the sports science department says a player is fit and the player doesn't say otherwise, the manager will go by what they say. Football clubs don't invest heavily in those departments just for them to be ignored. 

[Saint86]

I also wonder where we'd be if we hadn't loaned Ramsdale to Newcastle. Suspect we wouldn't be looking at getting another manager, paying two sets of wages, possibly a compensation package, and would in fact be much higher up the league... Even with still's defensive frailties. And it's not like Ramsdale is going to the world cup sat on the bench at newcastle let's be honest 

Edited 6 hours ago by Saint86

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I also wonder where we'd be if we hadn't loaned Ramsdale to Newcastle. Suspect we wouldn't be looking at getting another manager, paying two sets of wages, possibly a compensation package, and would in fact be much higher up the league... Even with still's defensive frailties. And it's not like Ramsdale is going to the world cup sat on the bench at newcastle let's be honest 

We would possibly have picked up a couple of points against Bristol City and Blackburn but that's not the root of our problems and I doubt we'd even be in the top half. Ramsdale's wages are enormous, we were never going to keep him in the Championship.

[Greedyfly]

3 hours ago, 64saint said:

Don't think they take cheques in brothels..... apparently 🙄

Was not the argument I was expecting to be picked from my comment 🤣 🤣 

[trousers]

20 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

We would possibly have picked up a couple of points against Bristol City and Blackburn but that's not the root of our problems and I doubt we'd even be in the top half. Ramsdale's wages are enormous, we were never going to keep him in the Championship.

The truth is, we'll never know what the impact of keeping Ramsdale could've been. 

Having a 'marquee' player in such a pivotal position could've inspired and galvanised the team as a whole and given the rest of our players more confidence than they have now, so who knows what might have transpired in such an alternate reality. 

As for his wages, yes, of course they would've been excessive for this division, but how does that compare with the cost of the possibility of having to replace the manager, lost revenue from receding attendance figures, etc?

Of course, I'm not saying that it's inevitable that everything would've been rosey if we'd kept Ramsdale, but we can't rule out that he could've made a significant difference to overall team morale and performance. And that *might* have been a price worth paying. Who knows...

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[Lighthouse]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

The truth is, we'll never know what the impact of keeping Ramsdale could've been. 

Having a 'marquee' player in such a pivotal position could've inspired and galvanised the team as a whole and given the rest of our players more confidence than they have now, so who knows what might have transpired in such an alternate reality. 

As for his wages, yes, of course they would've been excessive for this division, but how does that compare with the cost of the possibility of having to replace the manager, lost revenue from receding attendance figures, etc?

Of course, I'm not saying that it's inevitable that everything would've been rosey if we'd kept Ramsdale, but we can't rule out that he could've made a significant difference to overall team morale and performance. And that *might* have been a price worth paying. Who knows...

It goes without saying that we’d be better with Ramsdale in the team, so the fact that he isn’t points to the fact that it wasn’t feasible to keep him. That’s probably a combination of having to pay Arsenal wages in the Championship and the likelihood that we had a gentleman’s agreement hat he could leave if we got relegated.

In any case, it’s no excuse for our form at all. However you want to dress it up, Martin got promoted at the first attempt playing Bazunu and McCarthy. Unless you want to admit that he was an incomparable, god-like footballing genius, and I suspect that you don’t, Still should be able to match or better that achievement.

[Convict Colony]

guys do yourself a favour and watch el classico.

nearly half time and reminded me what football is meant to be like and what finishing is.

great game

Edited 5 hours ago by Convict Colony

[DT]

Does anyone think the board will grow a pair and sack the useless sham of a coach?

[trousers]

Just now, DT said:

Does anyone Dragan will grow a pair and sack the useless sham of a board?

∆

That's a more pertinent question...

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

It goes without saying that we’d be better with Ramsdale in the team, so the fact that he isn’t points to the fact that it wasn’t feasible to keep him. That’s probably a combination of having to pay Arsenal wages in the Championship and the likelihood that we had a gentleman’s agreement hat he could leave if we got relegated.

In any case, it’s no excuse for our form at all. However you want to dress it up, Martin got promoted at the first attempt playing Bazunu and McCarthy. Unless you want to admit that he was an incomparable, god-like footballing genius, and I suspect that you don’t, Still should be able to match or better that achievement.

The way this season is unfolding, it certainly seems that Martin is a much better manager than Still at this level. Probably not the most startling revelation you've ever heard though, I would venture.

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[Osvaldorama]

Astonishing he’s still here, really. 
 

Wonder how much we’ll have to pay to get rid of him. Maybe we are stuck with him 

[Andy Hill]

No-one likes to see anyone lose their job but bringing on shoehorn to wander around aimlessly must be the last straw. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

The way this season is unfolding, it certainly seems that Martin is a much better manager than Still at this level. Probably not the most startling revelation you've ever heard though, I would venture.

Depends on the context and perspective. If Martin was the Manager Scienza and Azaz would more than likely be left out I the cold - they’re too attack minded and unlikely to pass sideways and backwards.

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Depends on the context and perspective. If Martin was the Manager Scienza and Azaz would more than likely be left out I the cold - they’re too attack minded and unlikely to pass sideways and backwards.

Aye. As always, when considering alternate realities, we'll never know how well Martin would've performed with this squad (and visa versa), so it's a tad moot comparing the two managers when it's not possible to compare like with like given they had different squads, different contexts,  etc, etc.

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[Wade Garrett]

19 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Astonishing he’s still here, really. 
 

Wonder how much we’ll have to pay to get rid of him. Maybe we are stuck with him 

It beggars belief that he’s still here.  The leadership at the club is as good as the team management.

Clueless, out of their depth and respected by nobody.

If we just stumble through to Saturday, it’s going to be toxic.  If they think a few PR interviews and articles are going to sweeten us, they are very much mistaken.

[maysie]

Unless I've missed something I can't see one social media posts from the club since announcing the full time score yesterday. No interviews, no pics or highlights. Is that normal?

[Mr X]

1 hour ago, DT said:

Does anyone think the board will grow a pair and sack the useless sham of a coach?

When hell freezes over with Sport Repubic

[tdmickey3]

57 minutes ago, maysie said:

Unless I've missed something I can't see one social media posts from the club since announcing the full time score yesterday. No interviews, no pics or highlights. Is that normal?

 Nothing is normal at SFC

[madge]

1 hour ago, maysie said:

Unless I've missed something I can't see one social media posts from the club since announcing the full time score yesterday. No interviews, no pics or highlights. Is that normal?

Nope they didn’t.. they knew the amount of shit that was heading their way! 
No vote of confidence.. nothing from the club. They go into hiding when things go wrong. 

Edited 3 hours ago by madge

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Depends on the context and perspective. If Martin was the Manager Scienza and Azaz would more than likely be left out I the cold - they’re too attack minded and unlikely to pass sideways and backwards.

Similarly, Che Adams up front in this team would make all the difference. 

[Challenger]

Time to get out the sack and fish priest, sorry Will, your race is surely run.

[die Mannyschaft]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

There's no faith being put in anything. It's just another way of tracking certain stats. Our XG tells us that we are creating a lot of chances and some of them very good, but our finishing is poor - something we have all said

 Its complete nonsense and misleading. We have lost to teams with lower xG. Also we cant defend goals going in so that cancells Saints better xG. Can't stop goals going in at acute angles is another stat coaches are not tracking. Saints spend days analysing data, talking Latin in press conference and each week teams just run through our midfield and defence and score with little effort.  The coaches need to chuck thier laptops in the bin Monday and try playing football as if we don't win Sat the only stat that counts will be 21st 

[die Mannyschaft]

1 hour ago, maysie said:

Unless I've missed something I can't see one social media posts from the club since announcing the full time score yesterday. No interviews, no pics or highlights. Is that normal?

No interviews is a start in the right direction. Stop talking and just get on with training, running forwards and kicking ball out of danger would be a good start. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, die Mannyschaft said:

No interviews is a start in the right direction

Speak for yourself. Personally, I’m a bit disappointed. I was looking forward  to seeing which player was going to tell us how they’re working hard in training , are behind the manager, and were determined to put it right next week . 

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, die Mannyschaft said:

 Its complete nonsense and misleading. We have lost to teams with lower xG. Also we cant defend goals going in so that cancells Saints better xG. Can't stop goals going in at acute angles is another stat coaches are not tracking. Saints spend days analysing data, talking Latin in press conference and each week teams just run through our midfield and defence and score with little effort.  The coaches need to chuck thier laptops in the bin Monday and try playing football as if we don't win Sat the only stat that counts will be 21st 

Right...because they are better at taking the chances they create than we are. 

You're making out that Saints are the only side engaging in the stats side of the game and that's why we're struggling - news flash, the majority of professional teams in the world use these stats to analyse their players and team performances now. 

[Tommy]

Surely hes gone tomorrow. should not have made it back to the bus with the team last night. 

[Eagle778]

2 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Surely hes gone tomorrow. should not have made it back to the bus with the team last night. 

He won t , sports republic will dither.

[Willo of Whiteley]

He won’t be sacked. We don’t have a Marinakis style board.

[Maggie May]

I’m surprised there’s been little focus on what Paul Trollope brings as his assistant. Whose idea was it to hire someone who was number two at Luton when they endured back to back relegation? 

[Master Bates]

5 hours ago, Suhari said:

Is he joining us?

No idea, someone said he was looking at property here

[Verbal]

43 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

I’m surprised there’s been little focus on what Paul Trollope brings as his assistant. Whose idea was it to hire someone who was number two at Luton when they endured back to back relegation? 

Wasn't that vacancy created because the club refused to allow Still to bring his coaching team with him?

[SaintNewForest]

1 minute ago, Verbal said:

Wasn't that vacancy created because the club refused to allow Still to bring his coaching team with him?

I thought it was the opposite? His coaching staff didn't want to come.

[Verbal]

Just now, SaintNewForest said:

I thought it was the opposite? His coaching staff didn't want to come.

Yes, I can't remember, could be -  but thought it odd at the time that Still was appointed solo. 

[Suhari]

7 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

No idea, someone said he was looking at property here

Presumably Martin O'Neill's house.

[The Kraken]

5 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I get where you are coming from. But seems to me we are putting too much faith in these stats. 

Out of interest, who is putting too much faith in stats like xg? Genuine question.

For me, I look at xg in the exact same way as I do any other statistic such as shots on target, shots off target, possession percentage etc. If anybody thinks or tries to tell you that stats analysis can replicate watching a game then they’re having you on. But stats can be somewhat useful when you haven’t watched a game and want to get a bit more of a picture of what the game was like other than the scoreline. Xg is by no means perfect (again, anyone who says it is shouldn’t be listened to) but what it tries to do is give a little bit more detail to the quality of goal opportunities being made.

If I haven’t watched a saints game, the only way to catch up properly is to watch a recording of it. And that won’t give the same picture as having been there.  Highlights will give some detail, but not the whole story. Match reports are reliant on the author, so could be subject to bias. And then you have the numbers. They may tell a story, they may be somewhat accurate, they may not. I don’t think anyone relies on them as being 100% accurate but they help to paint a picture of a game you’ve not been able to see. So I see them in the same way I see a newspaper match report, they’ll give me a summary overview of how the game went.

personally I don’t see the problem with having a bit of faith in that. So long as you understand the limitations of the numbers you’re looking at, it’s all just extra background reading.

 

[West Dean FC Legend]

14 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Out of interest, who is putting too much faith in stats like xg? Genuine question.

For me, I look at xg in the exact same way as I do any other statistic such as shots on target, shots off target, possession percentage etc. If anybody thinks or tries to tell you that stats analysis can replicate watching a game then they’re having you on. But stats can be somewhat useful when you haven’t watched a game and want to get a bit more of a picture of what the game was like other than the scoreline. Xg is by no means perfect (again, anyone who says it is shouldn’t be listened to) but what it tries to do is give a little bit more detail to the quality of goal opportunities being made.

If I haven’t watched a saints game, the only way to catch up properly is to watch a recording of it. And that won’t give the same picture as having been there.  Highlights will give some detail, but not the whole story. Match reports are reliant on the author, so could be subject to bias. And then you have the numbers. They may tell a story, they may be somewhat accurate, they may not. I don’t think anyone relies on them as being 100% accurate but they help to paint a picture of a game you’ve not been able to see. So I see them in the same way I see a newspaper match report, they’ll give me a summary overview of how the game went.

personally I don’t see the problem with having a bit of faith in that. So long as you understand the limitations of the numbers you’re looking at, it’s all just extra background reading.

 

Funnily enough I used to do detailed player/team/opponent stats for a top ice hockey club in the UK for season or so (I still do them for graphics and so forth nowadays), the player/coach I worked with (he was the British UN20s assistant coach for a while so no dummy and he scored a lot of points when he played) always was interested in them, took notice of them, but he said he did not select his 'lines'/players and tactics soley based on them. For starters you don't know who is recording them in another ice rink.

Interesting point - a 'shot-on-goal' is a shot that will go into the goal and be a goal (whether it goes in or is saved), hitting the post or bar (unless saved by the goalie prior to that) is not a shot-on-goal and if a goalie saves a shot but a team mate is behind him on the line or in the goal area and could have stopped the shot if missed that is not a shot-on-goal! Half the stats recorders did not know that 

[OneMrsWallace]

4 hours ago, Andy Hill said:

No-one likes to see anyone lose their job but bringing on shoehorn to wander around aimlessly must be the last straw. 

Seriously starting to think the board are so shit that they don't know what good and bad decisions look like on the pitch. But four wins in what feels like a hundred years...if they can't work out that's a frightening stat, then they need to fuck off now.

[AlexLaw76]

The management for the Blackburn game overall was a fucking shambles. Not the sign of a manager in control of how to get through this and, generally, has a good idea of what he is doing.

 

[The Kraken]

26 minutes ago, West Dean FC Legend said:

Funnily enough I used to do detailed player/team/opponent stats for a top ice hockey club in the UK for season or so (I still do them for graphics and so forth nowadays), the player/coach I worked with (he was the British UN20s assistant coach for a while so no dummy and he scored a lot of points when he played) always was interested in them, took notice of them, but he said he did not select his 'lines'/players and tactics soley based on them. For starters you don't know who is recording them in another ice rink.

Interesting point - a 'shot-on-goal' is a shot that will go into the goal and be a goal (whether it goes in or is saved), hitting the post or bar (unless saved by the goalie prior to that) is not a shot-on-goal and if a goalie saves a shot but a team mate is behind him on the line or in the goal area and could have stopped the shot if missed that is not a shot-on-goal! Half the stats recorders did not know that 

Yep, all stats are flawed in some way and they need to be viewed in that regard. Possession percentage is another one, for ages I assumed it was calculated by some poor sod with a couple of stopwatches who would click over when one team regained the ball. Then I realised it is most often done on comparison of the total number of passes made. A major reason why Martinball is so heavily high on possession stats, the centre backs and Flynn Downes played a huge amount of small quick passes to each other throughout games.

 

Edited 30 minutes ago by The Kraken

[Midfield_General]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

He won’t be sacked. We don’t have a Marinakis style board.

I mean, we have had seven managers in three years. They’re not exactly renowned for sticking with them through thick and thin. 

[AlexLaw76]

2 hours ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

He won’t be sacked. We don’t have a Marinakis style board.

you are aware how many managers they have gone through?