Will Still

[Toadhall Saint]

6 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

This idea that the formation and tactics are being forced on Will Still has me inquisitive.  
 

It’s true that Will Stills footballing philosophy and preferred tactics have not been on display at Saints, ie:

A back four rather than five defenders
    •    More aggressive, possession-based football
    •    Systems that emphasized quick transitions and pressing

So is this formation a result of data crunchers looking for formations that could optimise financial return as opposed to footballing return?

Financial return? Not a lot of financial return playing in Div 1 which is where we are headed 

[Jack]

There is absolutely zero point in persisting with Still. He’s got a great squad of players for this level and we’re getting worse, not better. They look poorly coached, no idea what they’re meant to be doing, and not up for the fight. We need change ASAP before we sleep walk into another relegation 

[Lord Duckhunter]

50 minutes ago, RedWillie said:

He looks more and more uncomfortable than any Saints  manager i can rememberback to Lawrie. The man has no confidence, looks nervous and uncomfortable in every appearance. Uninspiring when talking and looks lost. There are managers and leaders.Unfortunately he is not the latter.

Absolutely right. 
 

This is a tough unforgiving league & you need to impose yourself at the club from day one, particularly if you’re in charge of a relegated team. You need to be a big personality and force your will on the club. Whilst Lego was too rigid in his playing style, there was no doubt he was running the first team from top to bottom and nobody was left in any doubt he was the boss. This bloke seems like a PE teacher, or the cones & bibs man, like a little boy lost. I think it’s called imposter syndrome. You mentioned Laurie, and whilst times are different & a relegation would now mean the sack. Despite a dreadful start, he never ever gave off the same vibe Still is. Never showed any self doubt or muddled thinking. He was absolutely sure he was the right man and made sure everybody else did to. If he had any misgivings  or self doubt, he masked it from everyone. Same with Pardew & Lego, they inherited from a poor season, but they didn’t look confused or weak. This jobs too big for Still and he knows it….

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Still has been a big disappointment for me. I expected more. Yes he was dealt a poor hand in the summer but players like Fellows and Azaz are experienced Championship players who under his management look mediocre at best. His demeanour, his harping on about inheriting a hangover from last season are becoming tedious and irritating.

Accepting this season is a write off in terms of promotion and we have enough about us to avoid relegation, will the Board stick with him because there no other viable options? That's the million dollar question sitting right now on Dragan's desk.

He is a man with business problems mounting up, but I hope he is giving the future of Southampton his undivided attention right now because we are fast approaching critical crossroads.

[Dr Who?]

Can’t believe he is still here. The lack of being decisive is amazing! Get him out, as it will just end badly down the line. We do not hear anything one way or the other from the owners. It makes it worse. 

[Saint NL]

I was amused to see the BBC are pushing the crisis at Spurs this morning after they lost.

New manager is getting booed after a poor performance.

 

If you check the league table, they are fourth in the premier league.

I wish we had those problems 😢

 

Edit: add image is broken, what's going on?

Edited 7 hours ago by Saint NL

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Saint NL said:

I was amused to see the BBC are pushing the crisis at Spurs this morning after they lost.

New manager is getting booed after a poor performance.

 

If you check the league table, they are fourth in the premier league.

I wish we had those problems 😢

 

Edit: add image is broken, what's going on?

This is Spurs though, their fans have a bizarre sense of entitlement. They think they should be challenging for the league.

They are Top 6 on a good season, mid-table in a normal season. They need to sort their expectations out because they're really not as 'big' or good as they think they are.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

Two more games down the shitter then.

It’s my belief Spors & co have staked their professional reputations on the “high risk” appointment of William Still the younger and are keeping everything crossed that he / the team provide some grounds for optimism, to prove themselves correct. Sacking him will be huge admission of failure of Spors and Sports Republic. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dragan has said WTF boys and is meeting with resistance.
 

All our speculation, but that’s how I rationalise it. 

[Gloucester Saint]

26 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is Spurs though, their fans have a bizarre sense of entitlement. They think they should be challenging for the league.

They are Top 6 on a good season, mid-table in a normal season. They need to sort their expectations out because they're really not as 'big' or good as they think they are.

Always been the same with them, stems from Nicholson era. Always otherwise been a streaky cup kind of team, some superb individuals but Arsenal and latterly Chelsea with the shady funding the clubs in London who can grind out title challenges. Spurs are more akin to West Ham, just a bit bigger. They’d hate that analogy.

Edited 6 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Dr. Kucho]

I’m not trolling or have used any funny substances, but I rate Still as a manager and coming back I think Jones isn’t too bad either. What I do think is that we hired them at the wrong time and didn’t hand them the tools they needed.

Hasenhuttl liked playing a high press, but the problem was they forgot to buy him a striker. In comes Jones, a decent championship manager who likes to play a more conventional style. They bring in Onuachu but forget the players he needs to play how he wants. That said Jones’s demeanor wasn’t to everyone’s liking and I was firmly in the Jones out camp too.

Fast forward to Still, another manager who’s done well but they also forget to buy him a striker he needs to play his preferred style. 

Another problem is the state of the club, how can you think a young 30 something manager can bring the players together after such an awful season and rebuild the squad. You need an experienced manager who knows the league and has done it before. Someone like Mowbary who’s been around, nothing fancy just someone to steady the ship, help the club and once we are moving forward look around for the next manager for the next step. 

I had high hopes for Still but he has made mistakes and has been let down. Sack him and I dread to think who Sports Republic replace him with. If they can find someone cos who wants to come to a club run like ours now. 

[RedWillie]

44 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Absolutely right. 
 

This is a tough unforgiving league & you need to impose yourself at the club from day one, particularly if you’re in charge of a relegated team. You need to be a big personality and force your will on the club. Whilst Lego was too rigid in his playing style, there was no doubt he was running the first team from top to bottom and nobody was left in any doubt he was the boss. This bloke seems like a PE teacher, or the cones & bibs man, like a little boy lost. I think it’s called imposter syndrome. You mentioned Laurie, and whilst times are different & a relegation would now mean the sack. Despite a dreadful start, he never ever gave off the same vibe Still is. Never showed any self doubt or muddled thinking. He was absolutely sure he was the right man and made sure everybody else did to. If he had any misgivings  or self doubt, he masked it from everyone. Same with Pardew & Lego, they inherited from a poor season, but they didn’t look confused or weak. This jobs too big for Still and he knows it….

Yes, absolutely. I mention Lawrie as he was the manager when i got the Saints bug . Top man was Lawrie Mc. . 

[LGTL]

34 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is Spurs though, their fans have a bizarre sense of entitlement. They think they should be challenging for the league.

They are Top 6 on a good season, mid-table in a normal season. They need to sort their expectations out because they're really not as 'big' or good as they think they are.

They’ve got a bloody good manager too and if they stick with him they’ll be successful. Fat chance though with their bellend fanbase. 

[Badger]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Kucho said:

I’m not trolling or have used any funny substances, but I rate Still as a manager and coming back I think Jones isn’t too bad either. What I do think is that we hired them at the wrong time and didn’t hand them the tools they needed.

Hasenhuttl liked playing a high press, but the problem was they forgot to buy him a striker. In comes Jones, a decent championship manager who likes to play a more conventional style. They bring in Onuachu but forget the players he needs to play how he wants. That said Jones’s demeanor wasn’t to everyone’s liking and I was firmly in the Jones out camp too.

Fast forward to Still, another manager who’s done well but they also forget to buy him a striker he needs to play his preferred style. 

Another problem is the state of the club, how can you think a young 30 something manager can bring the players together after such an awful season and rebuild the squad. You need an experienced manager who knows the league and has done it before. Someone like Mowbary who’s been around, nothing fancy just someone to steady the ship, help the club and once we are moving forward look around for the next manager for the next step. 

I had high hopes for Still but he has made mistakes and has been let down. Sack him and I dread to think who Sports Republic replace him with. If they can find someone cos who wants to come to a club run like ours now. 

some good points;

Jones - agree to a point, but wrong man at the wrong time. Had we brought him in after relegation I suspect he’d have been better received and done a decent job.

Still - out of his depth (being kind).

Mowbray - I like him but he was poor at WBA, has had health issues, and would us sacking his brother endear us to him? Like the idea of an experienced head for now, even if it changes in the summer when better longer term options may be available.

Next appointment - I expect Nivea as a short term option. 

[SaintLondon]

I was prepared to give him more time, but I can’t defend this any longer - we look uncoached and lifeless. No one in their right mind can back what we’re seeing on the pitch.

My worry is twofold: first, that SR won’t have the conviction to act; second, that if they do, the replacement will be another soft choice - Lallana, or something equally ill-judged. I don’t have a perfect name, and I fear they’ll chase what they think is “popular” (say, Steven Gerrard). Not long ago I’d have said that would be a terrible appointment - just as I felt about Lampard at Coventry but he’s surprised everyone, so who bloody knows anymore. 

What we need is simple: someone who can inspire the dressing room, organise us, and restore belief. I watch Will Still and feel nothing - no charisma, no energy. He seems more compelling in French than in English.

The bigger issue is cultural. We’re Man United-lite: something is rotten and it’s now visible across the club. The last Championship season papered over cracks; we nearly threw that away too. This decline has been years in the making, and the next few weeks will shape the next few years. I’ve got little confidence the right calls will be made. My fear is we become the next Blackburn Rovers - stuck in the Championship, occasional play-off flutters, the odd relegation scare.

What a fall from grace.

[Obstacle1]

Why the fuck is he still in a job?

[sockeye]

17 minutes ago, Dr. Kucho said:

I’m not trolling or have used any funny substances, but I rate Still as a manager and coming back I think Jones isn’t too bad either. What I do think is that we hired them at the wrong time and didn’t hand them the tools they needed.

Hasenhuttl liked playing a high press, but the problem was they forgot to buy him a striker. In comes Jones, a decent championship manager who likes to play a more conventional style. They bring in Onuachu but forget the players he needs to play how he wants. That said Jones’s demeanor wasn’t to everyone’s liking and I was firmly in the Jones out camp too.

Fast forward to Still, another manager who’s done well but they also forget to buy him a striker he needs to play his preferred style. 

Another problem is the state of the club, how can you think a young 30 something manager can bring the players together after such an awful season and rebuild the squad. You need an experienced manager who knows the league and has done it before. Someone like Mowbary who’s been around, nothing fancy just someone to steady the ship, help the club and once we are moving forward look around for the next manager for the next step. 

I had high hopes for Still but he has made mistakes and has been let down. Sack him and I dread to think who Sports Republic replace him with. If they can find someone cos who wants to come to a club run like ours now. 

I like Jones, but he would never be a fit for Saints (nor Stoke). His emotional theatrical personality buys in most with underdog teams who haven't seen success for some time. Lots of respect for what he did at Luton and now Charlton.

[Gloucester Saint]

7 minutes ago, Badger said:

some good points;

Jones - agree to a point, but wrong man at the wrong time. Had we brought him in after relegation I suspect he’d have been better received and done a decent job.

Still - out of his depth (being kind).

Mowbray - I like him but he was poor at WBA, has had health issues, and would us sacking his brother endear us to him? Like the idea of an experienced head for now, even if it changes in the summer when better longer term options may be available.

Next appointment - I expect Nivea as a short term option. 

An experienced interim might well steady things short-term and keep us up, but until SR can identify a clear direction and aspiration for the club beyond making the odd profit on player trading (bar the odd fluke they aren’t even capable of that) then how can they decide objectively on the type of manager they need to deliver that?

This accounts for the mixed bag of managers we’ve seen under them. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

It is made up nonsense.

If Will Still is being told to only to play a particular system, why isn't he being told to not speak in press conferences about playing a different system? Why does the SR all-controlling bogeyman controlling one element but not the other?

There's loads of things Still says in press conferences like the team working hard, being quick in transition, converting chances, scoring goals, winning etc etc etc but they're not doing that either. 

Maybe Still says stuff in press conferences that he can't actually achieve because he isn’t up to it? Maybe, just maybe, it's that.

Maybe but the two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Like I said, it’s not always black and white even if you need it to be to understand why we’re plummeting downwards. And if it’s just Still, why are the same things happening manager after manager after manager?

[Lord Duckhunter]

42 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Yes he was dealt a poor hand in the summer but players like Fellows and Azaz are experienced Championship players who under his management look mediocre at best.

Blackmore was banging on about this yesterday, how Preston were more “experienced “ and Still hasn’t got similar just young inexperienced ones. It’s bollocks.

McCarthy played over 200 games, been in around premiership for years, and played for England. Manning over 200 games , mostly at this level, and an international. The other full back over 100 Brentford appearances & called up internationally. THB 2 promotions from the league we’re in and an England cap. Downes over 200 games, Armstrong over 300 starts and scored over 100 goals. We had James Bree the type of championship player Blackmore was bemoaning we didn’t have, but Still never picked him. Same with Aribo, over 200 games, played in Europa league 17 times, won the league in Scotland, international, yet can’t get a game. As you said we also had 2 of the leagues better players from last season.  Too many excuses being made and too much blame’s being put on recruitment. These new guys look ok, save for Downs and maybe the centre half. 
 

The only glaring error is up front, but that’s not the reason we’re shite. We needed to score 4 at Bristol & Hull. Needed 3 to have beaten Stoke, Blackburn and Watford. It’s not like every game is similar to the Swansea one. We’re not creating and missing chance after chance, Portsmouth, yesterday, even Wrexham we were bang average, lacking a striker wasn’t the main reason for horrendous results. 
 

This group of players are good enough to be in and around the play offs, no doubt about that. The fact they’re fighting relegation, isn’t recruitment or a poor hand. 

 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

24 minutes ago, Dr. Kucho said:

Fast forward to Still, another manager who’s done well but they also forget to buy him a striker he needs to play his preferred style. 

They bought him Downs. To think they thought that powder puff was going to score us 20+ goals in a season is concerning in itself, but to buy a replica Sekou Mara and repeat the same mistake is really unforgiveable. 

That stated, Still's tactics and the apparent lack of confidence on the pitch are what's really letting us down.

[AlexLaw76]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Blackmore was banging on about this yesterday, how Preston were more “experienced “ and Still hasn’t got similar just young inexperienced ones. It’s bollocks.

McCarthy played over 200 games, been in around premiership for years, and played for England. Manning over 200 games , mostly at this level, and an international. The other full back over 100 Brentford appearances & called up internationally. THB 2 promotions from the league we’re in and an England cap. Downes over 200 games, Armstrong over 300 starts and scored over 100 goals. We had James Bree the type of championship player Blackmore was bemoaning we didn’t have, but Still never picked him. Same with Aribo, over 200 games, played in Europa league 17 times, won the league in Scotland, international, yet can’t get a game. As you said we also had 2 of the leagues better players from last season.  Too many excuses being made and too much blame’s being put on recruitment. These new guys look ok, save for Downs and maybe the centre half. 
 

The only glaring error is up front, but that’s not the reason we’re shite. We needed to score 4 at Bristol & Hull. Needed 3 to have beaten Stoke, Blackburn and Watford. It’s not like every game is similar to the Swansea one. We’re not creating and missing chance after chance, Portsmouth, yesterday, even Wrexham we were bang average, lacking a striker wasn’t the main reason for horrendous results. 
 

This group of players are good enough to be in and around the play offs, no doubt about that. The fact they’re fighting relegation, isn’t recruitment or a poor hand. 

 

Totally agree.

Players from the the team yesterday that have a fair amount of the experience we are apparently lacking...

McCarthy, Mads, THB, Wood, Manning, Downes, Armstrong, Azaz

Around the squad with obvious experience... Stephens, Fraser, Aribo, Stewart

We loaned out.. Bree and Smallbone

Players who may lack experience but have been about, and/or internationals.. Scienza, Charles, Bazunu, Wellington

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by AlexLaw76

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 hour ago, IFHP said:

Nope, Will Still is just fucking shit.

 

I get it - we’re all pissed - but let’s get some perspective here. But he’s not ‘just fucking shit’ - he’s actually had some success at a very respectable level in World football. However, what he is NOT, is a man capable of repairing the significant damage done by successive poor player and coaching recruitment decisions by SR and delivering any semblance of success in a horribly flawed system.

In Trollope he has a proven failure of a coach alongside him and in Lallana a quiet novice that couldn’t punch his way out of a wet paper bag. That managerial team experiment has shown itself to be wholly incapable of the HUGE task it faced and the club need to act decisively to make that right with haste. Unfortunately it’s SR, so nobody is expecting action for a while yet if atall.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

But he’s not ‘just fucking shit’ - he’s actually had some success at a very respectable level in World football

He’s “just fucking shit” for Southampton. 

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I get it - we’re all pissed - but let’s get some perspective here. But he’s not ‘just fucking shit’ - he’s actually had some success at a very respectable level in World football. However, what he is NOT, is a man capable of repairing the significant damage done by successive poor player and coaching recruitment decisions by SR and delivering any semblance of success in a horribly flawed system.

In Trollope he has a proven failure of a coach alongside him and in Lallana a quiet novice that couldn’t punch his way out of a wet paper bag. That managerial team experiment has shown itself to be wholly incapable of the HUGE task it faced and the club need to act decisively to make that right with haste. Unfortunately it’s SR, so nobody is expecting action for a while yet if atall.

This. That's exactly the problem.

[S-Clarke]

14 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I get it - we’re all pissed - but let’s get some perspective here. But he’s not ‘just fucking shit’ - he’s actually had some success at a very respectable level in World football. However, what he is NOT, is a man capable of repairing the significant damage done by successive poor player and coaching recruitment decisions by SR and delivering any semblance of success in a horribly flawed system.

In Trollope he has a proven failure of a coach alongside him and in Lallana a quiet novice that couldn’t punch his way out of a wet paper bag. That managerial team experiment has shown itself to be wholly incapable of the HUGE task it faced and the club need to act decisively to make that right with haste. Unfortunately it’s SR, so nobody is expecting action for a while yet if atall.

Yeah you've got it there. 

Don't ignore Carl Martin as well, sticks around under every manager like some kind of bad smell.

[saint michael]

I would love to be a fly on the wall when they have discussions on performance since they took over. Abject failure on all counts to a point where they must know they need to change a lot of things but either are in denial or haven’t a clue where to go now after yet another major failure in recruitment and management. 
 

The next steps are absolutely crucial not only to us but their investment. They are in last chance saloon …. 

[Teamsaint1]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Still has been a big disappointment for me. I expected more. Yes he was dealt a poor hand in the summer but players like Fellows and Azaz are experienced Championship players who under his management look mediocre at best. His demeanour, his harping on about inheriting a hangover from last season are becoming tedious and irritating.

Accepting this season is a write off in terms of promotion and we have enough about us to avoid relegation, will the Board stick with him because there no other viable options? That's the million dollar question sitting right now on Dragan's desk.

He is a man with business problems mounting up, but I hope he is giving the future of Southampton his undivided attention right now because we are fast approaching critical crossroads.

There are  interesting comparisons to be made for those of us old enough to remember 1974.

After the way this  season  has started we are clearly in this for the long haul. The best that can be hoped for from this season is to create a basis for success, some stability at all levels, and a financial re-set to get us ready for a proper promotion push next season, and potentially life without parachute payments. That means more selling than buying ( do-able) integrating young players, and  cheap older heads or loans. £10m gambles probably ought to be a thing of the past already.

 

But as you say , the board ( as they did in 1974, albeit in a very different world) need to decide if WS is showing them enough to back him and see out a tough season while change starts to happen. 
i’m not seeing much that inspires confidence, but how would Lawrie have done in a fans poll say at Xmas 1974 ? We are in desperate need of stability, professional experience and vision. Changing the manager right now needs to be done only if he really has been shown not be up to the job. And there is a lot going on that we never see or hear about, most importantly manager relations with senior players. We may well need to be patient. But not too patient. 

[sockeye]

4 minutes ago, saint michael said:

I would love to be a fly on the wall when they have discussions on performance since they took over. Abject failure on all counts to a point where they must know they need to change a lot of things but either are in denial or haven’t a clue where to go now after yet another major failure in recruitment and management. 
 

The next steps are absolutely crucial not only to us but their investment. They are in last chance saloon …. 

I think there's a major lack of footballing nous in upper management, so they take half-hearted approaches when turning a new leaf. They believe changing the manager is sufficient, not noticing all the other problems in the room. They can put out a fire in the kitchen, but don't notice the black mold on the ceiling.

Edited 5 hours ago by sockeye

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 minute ago, sockeye said:

I think there's a major lack of footballing nous in upper management, so they take half-hearted approaches when turning a new leaf. They believe changing the manager is sufficient, not noticing all the other problems in the room. They can put out a fire in the kitchen, but don't notice the black mold on the ceiling.

I woud not be surprised if they have been sounding out potential replacements, only to be told thanks but no thanks.

[sockeye]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I woud not be surprised if they have been sounding out potential replacements, only to be told thanks but no thanks.

I've been thinking Sport Republic and Southampton have been building a reputation in the footballing world (negative connotation) for some time.

I don't see us escaping this slide until SR go, everyone knows they are incompetent from deep inside the club to across the continent.

[OneMrsWallace]

55 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Blackmore was banging on about this yesterday, how Preston were more “experienced “ and Still hasn’t got similar just young inexperienced ones. It’s bollocks.

McCarthy played over 200 games, been in around premiership for years, and played for England. Manning over 200 games , mostly at this level, and an international. The other full back over 100 Brentford appearances & called up internationally. THB 2 promotions from the league we’re in and an England cap. Downes over 200 games, Armstrong over 300 starts and scored over 100 goals. We had James Bree the type of championship player Blackmore was bemoaning we didn’t have, but Still never picked him. Same with Aribo, over 200 games, played in Europa league 17 times, won the league in Scotland, international, yet can’t get a game. As you said we also had 2 of the leagues better players from last season.  Too many excuses being made and too much blame’s being put on recruitment. These new guys look ok, save for Downs and maybe the centre half. 
 

The only glaring error is up front, but that’s not the reason we’re shite. We needed to score 4 at Bristol & Hull. Needed 3 to have beaten Stoke, Blackburn and Watford. It’s not like every game is similar to the Swansea one. We’re not creating and missing chance after chance, Portsmouth, yesterday, even Wrexham we were bang average, lacking a striker wasn’t the main reason for horrendous results. 
 

This group of players are good enough to be in and around the play offs, no doubt about that. The fact they’re fighting relegation, isn’t recruitment or a poor hand. 

 

It's a good point but none of them are 'gobby' on the pitch. None of them shout, point, encourage, get on at someone when needed. Of course being gobby with no ability isn't great either but surely we can strike a balance. Nothing feels right about the club at the moment. Nothing. 

[Badger]

4 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I woud not be surprised if they have been sounding out potential replacements, only to be told thanks but no thanks.

For the second year running.

The big opportunity to sell the idea of a ‘reset’ was in the summer. But we bollocksed it up with Still. It’s no longer appointing for a ‘reset’ , and difficult to ‘sell’ the strategy for rebuilding, it’s now bordering on desperation. The fans see it, as will anyone we’re talking to (and their agents). 

[Danwulfe]

Has he gone yet?

[Wade Garrett]

56 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

I get it - we’re all pissed - but let’s get some perspective here. But he’s not ‘just fucking shit’ - he’s actually had some success at a very respectable level in World football. However, what he is NOT, is a man capable of repairing the significant damage done by successive poor player and coaching recruitment decisions by SR and delivering any semblance of success in a horribly flawed system.

In Trollope he has a proven failure of a coach alongside him and in Lallana a quiet novice that couldn’t punch his way out of a wet paper bag. That managerial team experiment has shown itself to be wholly incapable of the HUGE task it faced and the club need to act decisively to make that right with haste. Unfortunately it’s SR, so nobody is expecting action for a while yet if atall.

No, I can only judge on what I see.  He is fucking shit and completely clueless.  Doesn’t know what he’s doing.  We are a really poorly coached team.

[Wade Garrett]

19 minutes ago, Teamsaint1 said:

There are  interesting comparisons to be made for those of us old enough to remember 1974.

After the way this  season  has started we are clearly in this for the long haul. The best that can be hoped for from this season is to create a basis for success, some stability at all levels, and a financial re-set to get us ready for a proper promotion push next season, and potentially life without parachute payments. That means more selling than buying ( do-able) integrating young players, and  cheap older heads or loans. £10m gambles probably ought to be a thing of the past already.

 

But as you say , the board ( as they did in 1974, albeit in a very different world) need to decide if WS is showing them enough to back him and see out a tough season while change starts to happen. 
i’m not seeing much that inspires confidence, but how would Lawrie have done in a fans poll say at Xmas 1974 ? We are in desperate need of stability, professional experience and vision. Changing the manager right now needs to be done only if he really has been shown not be up to the job. And there is a lot going on that we never see or hear about, most importantly manager relations with senior players. We may well need to be patient. But not too patient. 

Yes, we should have stuck with Selles, Jones, Martin, Gray and Wigley……

 

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

It’s my belief Spors & co have staked their professional reputations on the “high risk” appointment of William Still the younger and are keeping everything crossed that he / the team provide some grounds for optimism, to prove themselves correct. Sacking him will be huge admission of failure of Spors and Sports Republic. It wouldn’t surprise me if Dragan has said WTF boys and is meeting with resistance.
 

All our speculation, but that’s how I rationalise it. 

Spors maybe not so much but SR have been a failure since pretty much day one so whether they admit it to themselves or not they have been catastrophic for us.

[DT]

I see Wolves have noticed the perilous state they’re in and acted in order to stem the tide and try and stay in the division, with all that entails financially. Good thinking, guys. You might let our imbeciles know about this strategy. Also, we have a computer game player you might like to employ.

To be honest, I’m staggered that the club respects its fan base so little that they have not acted, or even acknowledged their concern that they have yet again hired someone who is just good in interviews and presumably blew enough smoke up Wankersen’s arse during one of his ‘I reinvented football’ bollockfests.

The club is hollow, with no-one who actually cares, neatly encapsulated by Adam Bloody Armstrong having the captain’s armband and trotting around the pitch without so much as a single gee up to his mercenary mates, Downes sulking about how good he is and how he misses Wussell, Stephens chatting behind Still’s back to bring about a bit of mutiny (just a theory) and there being no evidence of any coaching nous whatsoever, in fact making good Championship players only worse.

The first obvious step is to recognise that Still is a sham, sack him, and employ a manager who knows what he’s doing, and who can stand up to a bunch of big balls players who think they’re good for the Prem but can’t be arsed putting any work in.

Get it done, for God’s sake, Saints.

Edited 3 hours ago by DT

[Dr Who?]

I have heard bounded about from a few that nothing will happen until the next international break. I do not understand this thinking? If you are going to sack a manager, surely you pull the trigger? Say we did beat Wednesday next week, would that change their mind? Also I have said it many times, this will end badly, Still is not going to turn this around, so to give us the best shot and trying to reach the playoffs, we need to make the change now. We are not to far off the playoffs by points, but what is happening on the pitch we are light years away. 

[Saint NL]

If he's not fired first thing Monday morning, then he's here for Wednesdays game. Unless we get absolutely humiliated by QPR, it's not that crazy to think he will be here on Saturday for Sheffield Wednesday.

Then it's the international break. 

My preference is that he's gone by 9am Monday, probably some loser like Lallana in charge for QPR and Sheffield Wednesday with a suspicious man with a large hat and glasses in the crowd on Saturday. New man takes over and has the international break to try and sort some stuff out 

[TheSoundman]

Wanted him to succeed.

Unfortunately... Time to go.

[SaintBobby]

I'm not usually the trigger-happy type, but Still has to go. 2 wins and we are about 1/3 of the way through the season. That's pitiful.

The performances have been poor but the standout issue for me is that there is no obvious strategy for how we are going to score goals. Ball over the top? Storm down the wings and pull the ball back into the box? Flood the box? Take your pick...but Still appears not to have picked at all. It's hapless and directionless.

I think we managed one shot on target yesterday. That's risible.

Another sign that things aren't right is giving Stephens a massive contract extension and the armband and the dropping him. I would have plumped for the latter - but to do both is nuts. 

Edited 3 hours ago by SaintBobby

[Saint Scott]

Genuinely baffled that Still hasn't received his marching orders yet. His job is untenable and things aren't going to improve under him

I'd like to see a complete overhaul of the coaches barring maybe Lallana. Carl Martin seems to have survived the last few sackings, but clearly isn't up to much based on results the last 18 months 

[lambtiss]

4 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

This is Spurs though, their fans have a bizarre sense of entitlement. They think they should be challenging for the league.

They are Top 6 on a good season, mid-table in a normal season. They need to sort their expectations out because they're really not as 'big' or good as they think they are.

And the only song they've got, was copied from us

[Osvaldorama]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Blackmore was banging on about this yesterday, how Preston were more “experienced “ and Still hasn’t got similar just young inexperienced ones. It’s bollocks.

McCarthy played over 200 games, been in around premiership for years, and played for England. Manning over 200 games , mostly at this level, and an international. The other full back over 100 Brentford appearances & called up internationally. THB 2 promotions from the league we’re in and an England cap. Downes over 200 games, Armstrong over 300 starts and scored over 100 goals. We had James Bree the type of championship player Blackmore was bemoaning we didn’t have, but Still never picked him. Same with Aribo, over 200 games, played in Europa league 17 times, won the league in Scotland, international, yet can’t get a game. As you said we also had 2 of the leagues better players from last season.  Too many excuses being made and too much blame’s being put on recruitment. These new guys look ok, save for Downs and maybe the centre half. 
 

The only glaring error is up front, but that’s not the reason we’re shite. We needed to score 4 at Bristol & Hull. Needed 3 to have beaten Stoke, Blackburn and Watford. It’s not like every game is similar to the Swansea one. We’re not creating and missing chance after chance, Portsmouth, yesterday, even Wrexham we were bang average, lacking a striker wasn’t the main reason for horrendous results. 
 

This group of players are good enough to be in and around the play offs, no doubt about that. The fact they’re fighting relegation, isn’t recruitment or a poor hand. 

 

I agree. 
 

if we change manager and bring in someone competent we could still make the playoffs, even now imo. 
 

Problem is SR are leaving it too late and every game we get further away. 

[Suhari]

12 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

I agree. 
 

if we change manager and bring in someone competent we could still make the playoffs, even now imo. 
 

Problem is SR are leaving it too late and every game we get further away. 

Yep.

Tick tock SR.

Get Will gone, bring in someone proven in this league and we can still go up. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

47 minutes ago, Saint Scott said:

Genuinely baffled that Still hasn't received his marching orders yet. His job is untenable and things aren't going to improve under him

I'd like to see a complete overhaul of the coaches barring maybe Lallana. Carl Martin seems to have survived the last few sackings, but clearly isn't up to much based on results the last 18 months 

Why leave Lallana in place - he’s part of the coaching malaise that has spectacularly failed to motivate the team? If there’s going to be a clear out then do a proper job and allow the new incumbent to bring his own people. It’s unlikely anything will change positively with a new Manager anyway (it’s THAT broken), however not getting the next coaching team appointments right will see us down for certain.

Edited 1 hour ago by Saint Fan CaM

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 minutes ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

Why leave Lallana in place - he’s part of the coaching malaise that has spectacularly failed to motivate the team?

He’s new to coaching, he’s learning his way. I doubt he has very much say over tactics etc. Given his history, it’s no surprise people want him out, but if it was Jose Fonte or Ricky Lambert they probably wouldn’t. I’d want to know what he’s responsible for, and which area of our failings is down to him before throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Lord Duckhunter

[Osvaldorama]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s new to coaching, he’s learning his way. I doubt he has very much say over tactics etc. Given his history, it’s no surprise people want him out, but if it was Jose Fonte or Ricky Lambert they probably wouldn’t. I’d want to know what he’s responsible for, and which area of our failings is down to him before throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

You’re right, if it was one of those other players that has shown genuine leadership I’d be happy for them to stay. 
 

I personally can’t stand seeing that twat on our bench every week. 

He was a disgrace when he left, didn’t respect the club at all. Why would we want him here after that?  It’s embarrassing & tinpot that he’s even back here. 
 

At some point the club has to start respecting itself imo. 

[Charlie Wayman]

Unbelievable that he is still here. How long does it take to say "You're fired!"

 

[Saint Fan CaM]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s new to coaching, he’s learning his way. I doubt he has very much say over tactics etc. Given his history, it’s no surprise people want him out, but if it was Jose Fonte or Ricky Lambert they probably wouldn’t. I’d want to know what he’s responsible for and, which area of our failings is down to him before throwing the baby out with the bath water. 

Understand your point, however the culture in the club between players and coaches must be at an all time low and the lad has been a part of that for more than one season. I can’t see him being too far from the coaching action given he sits on the bench every game (not that I’ve noticed very much interaction between the coaches during a game anyway). For me the least messy scenario is for a clean sweep.