Watford 2-2 Saints - Match Thread

[whelk]

Just now, O_Lord_Marian said:

Will never know, he was sat on the bench.

You, and many others making yourselves look like fools if you think that free kick was a Baz howler. I don’t rate him but FFS some twats on here

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Haven't shifted enough of the Martin players - THB, Manning, Stephens are all weak weak links in this side. We leak chances.

Think we're paying the price for Downs and Quarshie not being great. What we needed were THB or Stephens replacements.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

You, and many others making yourselves look like fools if you think that free kick was a Baz howler. I don’t rate him but FFS some twats on here

it was a worldy to be fair. right in the top corner

[saintant]

Not going to panic because we are always slow starters. We'll look a lot different with the new signings once they are embedded into a new formation. It's a long season and we just need to make sure we're in the shake up at the end. Never going to be a fan of 3 at the back and I'm not convinced by Will Sill's claim that it was forced upon him by us not having any wingers. Watford started with 5 at the back and we were comfortable - they had zero shots on target until they converted to a back 4 and then took control of the game. We need to react to such tactical changes by the opposition especially from a winning position.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I'd seriously be looking at the loan market very closely for the next couple of days. Wishful thinking I know, but I'd still be looking at a keeper, centre half and left back.

Not sure why you'd think about a CB. We have 5 of them, 6 as Charles can also play there.

The CB's are fine, I don't have a problem with those. You can get promoted with those CB's.

The GK is a problem, I'll give you that. But we've already brought our GK in and sadly the club felt we just needed a third choice. This will likely be looked back on as a catastrophic error in May, but that's the project the club have gone all in with - for some reason.

[obelisk]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

You, and many others making yourselves look like fools if you think that free kick was a Baz howler. I don’t rate him but FFS some twats on here

Plenty of us twats could see the huge target he'd left for any decent strike before it was taken. There was no we he'd ever get across to cover that side of the goal. Just needed a decent strike. Big error.

[O_Lord_Marian]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

You, and many others making yourselves look like fools if you think that free kick was a Baz howler. I don’t rate him but FFS some twats on here

Not a howler precious, just very poor positioning. if you don't understand that, its ok. 

[whelk]

Just now, obelisk said:

Plenty of us twats could see the huge target he'd left for any decent strike before it was taken. There was no we he'd ever get across to cover that side of the goal. Just needed a decent strike. Big error.

 lol yeah twat covers it

[Doctoroncall]

All seemed a bit frantic in the second half with some sloppy passes and positioning. Midfield was weak again and hopefully the new signings will help in changing the formation and providing some much needed control in the middle of the pitch. 
 

Watford have a decent side, I wouldn’t be surprised if they make the play-offs. 

[S-Clarke]

This is the normal Bazunu argument, it's the same thing. They're not howlers, he doesn't drop howlers. He just lets in goals, all the time, every week, which make you think ''could he have done better there?''. Maybe, maybe not. But given that we ask the same questions every week, I'd say a good % of the goals he lets in should be saved by a competent GK.

I'm not going to micro-analyse the goals today, apart from say that he looked like a midget in the goal when that free kick was taken - he had no leap because he had too far to travel to that site of the goal. 

He's going go down in the ages as a GK who doesn't make howlers, but also doesn't really make any notable saves.

[whelk]

Just now, O_Lord_Marian said:

Not a howler precious, just very poor positioning. if you don't understand that, its ok. 

Probably played the game at a much higher level than majority on here - are you one of those dads that screams at your kids playing cos you haven’t got a clue and not ashamed to show it? 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

Not sure why you'd think about a CB. We have 5 of them, 6 as Charles can also play there.

The CB's are fine, I don't have a problem with those. You can get promoted with those CB's.

The GK is a problem, I'll give you that. But we've already brought our GK in and sadly the club felt we just needed a third choice. This will likely be looked back on as a catastrophic error in May, but that's the project the club have gone all in with - for some reason.

Disagree about the CB's, THB and Stephens way too easily bullied. Wood and Quarshie aren't good enough. Edwards is a nothing player. The loan market would provide us with better options, wouldn't lose any sleep if any of them went. If we are looking for a leader on the pitch, I think Ben Mee is still a free agent, we could do a lot worse and offer him a year's deal.

[saintant]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Not sure why you'd think about a CB. We have 5 of them, 6 as Charles can also play there.

The CB's are fine, I don't have a problem with those. You can get promoted with those CB's.

The GK is a problem, I'll give you that. But we've already brought our GK in and sadly the club felt we just needed a third choice. This will likely be looked back on as a catastrophic error in May, but that's the project the club have gone all in with - for some reason.

Lots of centre backs but are any of them good defenders? Captain Jack is hopeless but always seems to get a pick and his continual errors are overlooked unless they are real howlers.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, saintant said:

Lots of centre backs but are any of them good defenders? Captain Jack is hopeless but always seems to get a pick and his continual errors are overlooked unless they are real howlers.

I don't rate Stephens, I think he's shit. THB is good, he gets a bad rep because of the teams he's played in - but he's the sort you build around. I like Edwards as well personally, so did QPR. There are another CB's at this club to get a tune out of, I wouldn't worry about that area - it's what's behind them.

[bpsaint]

I mentioned this in the Baz thread. Once again we’re having a debate on whether or not Baz should have made a vital save that instead resulted in a goal. Instead of congratulating him on keeping us in the game or winning us the game it’s a case of should he have saved the free kick, did he invite the shot, should he have saved the first at a tight angle, should he have saved the second stoke goal at a tight angle, and it’s going to happen every bloody week because the FUCKING CLOWNS in charge can’t see what 95% of the fan base do in that we need an upgrade on Baz.

Honestly sick of the same debate game after game.

[Smirking_Saint]

Fair result on balance, Id like to think Baz should’ve got a hand to their first but in fairness if you’re going to give a player as long as he wants to line up a volley you’re asking for it

Overall I just don’t like the formation, we’ve not won a single midfield battle as far as Ive seen, and that immediately makes it hard work for you, not really sure where Sesay was.. it really showed our lack of depth behind Charles/Downes and the latters absence really cocked us up

Defensively we were really shaky again, they had a lot of joy down Mannings flank, and jesus can we stop giving away needless freekicks all the time

I can’t be arsed to talk about it for long today tbh

TLDR; Formation hinders us, why did we not have a CM on the bench, we get broke against too often.. and so gift silly free kicks because we’re overloaded 

[benjii]

31 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

I think he is one of the weakest links in this team, and he will continue to let in more goals than he should overall.

It's like playing with a handicap, and we are going to make promotion a lot harder on our selves than it needs to be.

Today, my biggest problem isn't that he has let in the two goals, as they are hard to save - but it is more the fact that you can see in his movement and how slow his reaction to both shots are. He is not even close.

Yeah, for the free kick he didn't even take a step across goal. Really slow reactions.

[Osvaldorama]

6 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Disagree about the CB's, THB and Stephens way too easily bullied. Wood and Quarshie aren't good enough. Edwards is a nothing player. The loan market would provide us with better options, wouldn't lose any sleep if any of them went. If we are looking for a leader on the pitch, I think Ben Mee is still a free agent, we could do a lot worse and offer him a year's deal.

Our CBs are fine for this level. 
 

it’s the formation and lack of midfield throwing them under the bus 

[Andy Hill]

Stephens and Manning are useless at this level. Need to freshen up the defence ASAP.
Still not sure where the goals will come from in open play either. 

[O_Lord_Marian]

Just now, whelk said:

Probably played the game at a much higher level than majority on here - are you one of those dads that screams at your kids playing cos you haven’t got a clue and not ashamed to show it? 

Deflect all you want precious, his positioning was still poor. 

[bugenhagen]

22 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

It's all well bring in these flashy attacking players, What is the point if we still have Weetabix wrists in goal.

And defender's who are error prone and full of mistakes....... 

Don't you see? It is so we can score more goals to offset the 2 we most likely will concede every game. So instead of 2-2's and 1-2's, we will win 4-2 and 3-2. There is a plan 😉

[Winnersaint]

Exceeded my expectations - thought we'd get beaten largely because the formation was never going to change and at some point as has happened in previous games wed be outnumbered in midfield. Early days.

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

 

TLDR; Formation hinders us, why did we not have a CM on the bench, we get broke against too often.. and so gift silly free kicks because we’re overloaded 

I don't think we had any CM's to put on the bench. Matsuki was the closest. 

Sessy was with the U21's yesterday so wouldn't have travelled.

 

[HKsaint]

Statistics would lie. He is the worst goalkeeper. How many clean sheet has he got this season? Time to drop him forever, please.

[The Kraken]

With the Baz free kick, I think two things are true. It was crap positioning from Baz, he got nowhere near it. But it was also a stunningly good free kick. I don’t think Bazunu gets to that even if he starts properly in the centre of the goal.

 

 

[Gloucester Saint]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

You, and many others making yourselves look like fools if you think that free kick was a Baz howler. I don’t rate him but FFS some twats on here

Don’t think the free kick could be stopped. His positioning was poor but really, really good placement and connection from Irankunda. Very good signing by Watford.

First goal was Bazunu and the defence and midfield though, far too slow to close and should be getting that past the post.

Looked much better with Alex in goal midweek and no brainer for anyone who knows their football for him to be in goal v Skates. 

[stknowle]

29 minutes ago, Umlaut said:

Good of you all who are defending Bazunu on the second goal. However I was howling at the telly to cover up that mile of pocket to the left of him. Not sure it would have mattered much at the end, but please enlighten me why he was throwing himself of the pole?

Apologies pal but if I live to be 150 I will never work out how to enlighten you as to why he was throwing himself of the pole.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

5 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Our CBs are fine for this level. 
 

it’s the formation and lack of midfield throwing them under the bus 

I hope you are right. 

[Midfield_General]

36 minutes ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

At least you are balanced in what you say and don't just lay the blame at his door for both today’s goals just because his name is Bazuna. 

His name isn’t Bazuna 

[Osvaldorama]

1 minute ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

I hope you are right. 

Like don’t get me wrong, we could easily improve on them. But there is so much space in front of them and around the sides of them

 

Will Still is setting us up in a suicidal formation imo. 

[Midfield_General]

4 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

With the Baz free kick, I think two things are true. It was crap positioning from Baz, he got nowhere near it. But it was also a stunningly good free kick. I don’t think Bazunu gets to that even if he starts properly in the centre of the goal.

 

 

Absolutely right. 

He was stood in the wrong place, but wouldn’t have saved it even if he wasn’t.

[O_Lord_Marian]

1 minute ago, The Kraken said:

With the Baz free kick, I think two things are true. It was crap positioning from Baz, he got nowhere near it. But it was also a stunningly good free kick. I don’t think Bazunu gets to that even if he starts properly in the centre of the goal.

 

 

Fair, but he would have looked at Bazunu position before he took the shot. Seeing how far right he was stood possibly/probably made up his mind to go for it.

[sfc4prem]

9 minutes ago, benjii said:

Yeah, for the free kick he didn't even take a step across goal. Really slow reactions.

I've said this recently, he dives so late.

He doesn't have the instincts of a goalkeeper.

[SaintTex]

18 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Plenty of us twats could see the huge target he'd left for any decent strike before it was taken. There was no we he'd ever get across to cover that side of the goal. Just needed a decent strike. Big error.

before the free kick, i was like.. only 4 players on the wall?!!

[sfc4prem]

13 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

With the Baz free kick, I think two things are true. It was crap positioning from Baz, he got nowhere near it. But it was also a stunningly good free kick. I don’t think Bazunu gets to that even if he starts properly in the centre of the goal.

 

 

Agreed. It was a superb hit. Prowsey would've been happy with that accuracy. Not many keepers, if any, getting to that.

 

Edited 11 hours ago by sfc4prem
Ward Prowse

[Gloucester Saint]

9 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Fair result on balance, Id like to think Baz should’ve got a hand to their first but in fairness if you’re going to give a player as long as he wants to line up a volley you’re asking for it

Overall I just don’t like the formation, we’ve not won a single midfield battle as far as Ive seen, and that immediately makes it hard work for you, not really sure where Sesay was.. it really showed our lack of depth behind Charles/Downes and the latters absence really cocked us up

Defensively we were really shaky again, they had a lot of joy down Mannings flank, and jesus can we stop giving away needless freekicks all the time

I can’t be arsed to talk about it for long today tbh

TLDR; Formation hinders us, why did we not have a CM on the bench, we get broke against too often.. and so gift silly free kicks because we’re overloaded 

The formation is horrific and no excuse for using v the Skates onwards. Manning - good to see him going forward well but reminds me of Danny Fox in 11/12 - gets forward really well now like when he was at Swansea but struggles 1-1 when we push forward. Jander a very important signing 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Like don’t get me wrong, we could easily improve on them. But there is so much space in front of them and around the sides of them

 

Will Still is setting us up in a suicidal formation imo. 

Agree the formation seems to be hindering us, hopefully this changes after the break.

[Saint Fan CaM]

 

1 hour ago, SW11_Saint said:

No one is saving that. 

A keeper that positions himself properly and has more spring in his legs than a brick might have a chance.

1 hour ago, BARCELONASAINT said:

are you stupid on purpose? You think any keeper is getting that freekick ffs?!

Kettle. Black. Pot. See above ^^^.

[SWLondon Saint]

I don't think THB has looked right at all this season - he's looked a yard slow and has struggled against any physical forward, which is most of them in this league, and has to resort to shirt grabbing. Not sure if it's because his pre-season was disrupted or his heart's not in it, but something doesn't look right.

[RedArmy]

32 minutes ago, whelk said:

McCarthy saves that free kick right?

He saves the first. 

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, SWLondon Saint said:

I don't think THB has looked right at all this season - he's looked a yard slow and has struggled against any physical forward, which is most of them in this league, and has to resort to shirt grabbing. Not sure if it's because his pre-season was disrupted or his heart's not in it, but something doesn't look right.

He, and Stephens, are required to cover waaaay more ground than many others, particularly when it is not their natural game.

when we pushed forward, THB was virtually a Left Back...THB a Left Back ffs

[Tanlee]

Early days yet but the signs so far are we could be in for a season of averageness 

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, Tanlee said:

Early days yet but the signs so far are we could be in for a season of averageness 

I agree with your first two words.

If the latter part of your comment becomes reality then we are quite fucked indeed, especially considering our recent outlay on midfielders.

[HKsaint]

We need to score 3 goals to bail out 2 goals we conceded every game. 

[stknowle]

16 minutes ago, HKsaint said:

Statistics would lie. He is the worst goalkeeper. How many clean sheet has he got this season? Time to drop him forever, please.

Well said HK my old pal. 

[Convict Colony]

that ref was a example of someone who has been over promoted

[Saint Fan CaM]

29 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

This is the normal Bazunu argument, it's the same thing. They're not howlers, he doesn't drop howlers. He just lets in goals, all the time, every week, which make you think ''could he have done better there?''. Maybe, maybe not. But given that we ask the same questions every week, I'd say a good % of the goals he lets in should be saved by a competent GK.

I'm not going to micro-analyse the goals today, apart from say that he looked like a midget in the goal when that free kick was taken - he had no leap because he had too far to travel to that site of the goal. 

He's going go down in the ages as a GK who doesn't make howlers, but also doesn't really make any notable saves.

Absolutely spot on.

[Patches O Houlihan]

All of you guys blaming 3 at the back for our midfield woes (which I get) but you're forgetting the big issue which really put us and Still on the back foot from kick off: Mr f**king chicken livers hearing about a bid for him and packing up shop.

This was the formation we were playing for 70 minutes

                                  Baz

             Stevo          Wood        THB 

Mads.                                                  Manning

                               Charles

        Weeman                             Robinson

                                Azaz

                               Archer

 

With the best will in the world Fraser & JayRob are going to get muscled out of it by that Watford team no matter what shape we play. Charles busier than a one-legged man at a an arse kicking competition.

Archer is never in the game except to put away chances, Azaz missed most of preseason with an injury so isn't fully up to speed yet and it's his first game for us. 

Aribo & Smallbone are at home with their managers, so our other midfield options were Matsuki, Edwards, or Shoehorn...

Having trained 3 at the back for a month you are f**ked either way as the manager in this situation. I thought we made a decent fist of it bearing in mind the players on the team sheet. Should Aribo or Smallbone have travelled? Maybe yes.

 

* Azaz I thought did pretty well all things considered - definitely worn out but still trying when he went off. Later in the season I reckon he buries that chance.

* Roerslav - what a player we have signed. A properly safe pair of hands. Forced off by that big lump charging into him off the ball > that's why Jack was up in his face after the free kick (not because he was close to Bazunu)

* Stewart asked to play deep left wing which surely doesn't come naturally did alright, and I loved him skinning their RB round the outside so hard that he limped off straight away.

On the plus side everyone is talking about our squad and Ipswich's squad - and they are 3 points behind us. We are only 4 behind Leicester. It could be worse.

Now lets train a new system and absolutely smash the skates.

[Gloucester Saint]

5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

He saves the first. 

💯 

Given far too much space and time with the shot but at EFL level, League 2 and upwards, that simply has to be turned past the post. Keeper error fair and square.

Free kick was brilliant placement and ideal connection, poor positioning but even Ramsdale ain’t stopping that. Great execution. 

[madge]

Still should be banging on the door wanting a top striker.. it’s the difference between going up and not going up..