Tonda Eckert

[sfc4prem]

6 minutes ago, bugenhagen said:

I live on “the continent”, and not a single person I have spoken to has called the club cheats, and said that the cheating part is bad for the reputation of the club. 

But everyone is making fun of how bad we are at spying. They have seen the photo and can’t stop laughing. 

I’m receiving a lot of banter about how amateurish we are, but nothing about us being a morally bad club or cheats.

Embarrassingly bad. No attempt at hiding. Buying coffees in adjacent businesses. Reckless. Almost as if we expected a slap on the wrist and fine if caught, so didn't care too much for precaution...

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Spied on 3 games

Course we did…..

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Course we did…..

You think Phil should have 'fessed up to more?  I'm sure he would if someone pointed a small table lamp at him.

[saintant]

23 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

I didn't think it did but the more quotes appear from players talking about his attention to detail and how he tells the players how to counter every little aspect of an opponents game, the harder it is to believe it.

You  must be listening to different players to me because, to a man, every one I've heard comment has said what you could gain is miniscule. 

[coalman]

20 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Just clarifying the timeline!

Last week, spying wasn't a big deal, after all what could you possibly glean from watching training a couple of days before a match that you couldn't get from watching every match ever played? 

This week, Tonda is the devil incarnate.  Spying on teams and blatantly disregarding all the rules.  There's no other explanation for our recent improvements other than spying on teams a couple of days before the match.

Last week, Boro fans were off the chart crazy.  This week....

Last week, breaking a known rule in such a clumsy way where the punishment isn't well defined but teams and coaches have been suspended is fucking mental.

This week, breaking a known rule in such a clumsy way where the punishment isn't well defined but teams and coaches have been suspended is fucking mental.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, coalman said:

Last week, breaking a known rule in such a clumsy way where the punishment isn't well defined but teams and coaches have been suspended is fucking mental.

This week, breaking a known rule in such a clumsy way where the punishment isn't well defined but teams and coaches have been suspended is fucking mental.

Apart from us, which teams have been suspended as a punishment?

[Wade Garrett]

58 minutes ago, Dan Johnson said:

I think the situation is more complex to be honest.

Although Tonda has been heavily implicated and involved, we're still unaware of when the practice of spying on other teams began and ultimately who is the main implementor of the practice. 

If the spying precedes Tonda and happened under Multiple previous managers and implemented at the sporting director level, then it becomes very difficult, legally, to sack Tonda on charges of gross misconduct if it was an intuitional problem, maybe it was forced on Tonda from a higher level?

We see this in gross misconduct cases all the time, where an employee has been fired but then opens a counter claim against the organization where they explain their actions were in line with the systemic problems throughout that organization and that their being made a scape goat.

I think the longer it goes on without personnel leaving or being fired probably indicates that the spying has gone on pre-Tonda and is much more deep rooted than we think, it doesn't mean he wont eventually leave, but it hopefully means we're ensuring their is no come back when we do eventually get rid of him.

That may mean we have to wait for the robust internal investigation to be completed.
 

Fanciful.  It was Tonda in the conservatory with the lead piping.

He’s toast.

[coalman]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Apart from us, which teams have been suspended as a punishment?

The Canadian coaches were suspended by FIFA. Expecting the same sanction as Leeds in the light of that wasn't bright.

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, coalman said:

The Canadian coaches were suspended by FIFA. Expecting the same sanction as Leeds in the light of that wasn't bright.

Apart from us, which TEAM has been suspended as a punishment?

[Challenger]

The club fucked up the spying, fucked up defending it and will fuck up sorting it out.

It's what they do.

[coalman]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

Apart from us, which TEAM has been suspended as a punishment?

Well done for MLG levels of hair splitting.

[bugenhagen]

3 minutes ago, Challenger said:

The club fucked up the spying, fucked up defending it and will fuck up sorting it out.

It's what they do.

[Starksj1995]

13 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Fanciful.  It was Tonda in the conservatory with the lead piping.

He’s toast.

He be gone soon anyway 

[Starksj1995]

11 minutes ago, coalman said:

The Canadian coaches were suspended by FIFA. Expecting the same sanction as Leeds in the light of that wasn't bright.

The issue is, can they actually suspend him because in the premiership there is no law against spying on your opponents?

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

I didn't think it did but the more quotes appear from players talking about his attention to detail and how he tells the players how to counter every little aspect of an opponents game, the harder it is to believe it.

Mate, are you serious? He has 46 games to watch players etc., by the end of the season - all the data in the world.

You've just highlighted his impressive attention to detail and analytical skills to counter players... But apparently you think that's happened without any credit given to his analytical skills 🤦‍♂️

There are some seriously gaslit people at this point tbh. For the love of god, would you lot snap out of the media blitz and realise how out of proportion this has all got, and how warped your perspectives have got. Southampton is your club!!!

We broke the rules and scouted opposition training inside an arbitrary window that doesn't exist anywhere else in major European football. A bit naughty, cheating for the EFL rules sure, but fairly minor in significance to many offences that go on inside football, and absolutely amateur hour by the club re execution and handling... but then equally Woop de bloody do - bielsa did it for an entire season (rule or no rule) and he got a 200k fine and no ban. Nothing has significantly changed in terms of the advantage gained in 7years - we have just been stitched up horrendously and given a ludicrous punishment. We should have received a fine and small points deduction and the whole world knows it.

But outside this, Eckert remains a class coach on the pitch. And how anyone can dismiss his analytical skills, attention to detail, and his drilling of the side is beyond me.

Some people are making out like analysis of players and team tactics offers zero useful evidence until it's the last training day before the game, and then that's the only data that matters... And then trying to say that tonda's run was due to that? So what - hes a superb analyst for that last training session, but then completely useless for the other 99% of data available? (I.e. the actual matches) 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I guess it was a bloody good job those last sessions showed that all the teams we scouted suffered against 4-2-3-1 formations with target men centre forwards! That was a close call, we'd have been stuck doing 5 at the back with AA up top for the rest of the season if it wasn't for these secret spying sessions - tonda far to clueless to have figured that out without cheating right? 😵

If he is guilty of bullying it's a separate issue. 100% not acceptable. But telling staff to buck up the quality of their work is not bullying. I am yet to see actual evidence of bullying, just more media blitz against the club and further trial by media that our own fans are quite happy to jump onto the bandwagon of.

What I've seen is a reference to salt expressing morale uncertainty, and an unrelated reference to Eckert saying to improve the quality of the scouting reports.

And ultimately, even now, everyone involved is due a fair hearing on what's actually happened - even parsons 🌚😐.

Besides, with this media shit storm, the fa will ban him, almost certainly. The EFL and the fa have to look tough on smaller and vulnerable clubs because they do absolutely sod all to the real cheats.

Edited 3 hours ago by Saint86

[Paul Chuckle]

10 minutes ago, Challenger said:

The club fucked up the spying, fucked up defending it and will fuck up sorting it out.

It's what they do.

While tonight is a painful moment, this football club will respond with humility, accountability and determination to put things right.

[coalman]

3 minutes ago, Starksj1995 said:

The issue is, can they actually suspend him because in the premiership there is no law against spying on your opponents?

That's going to be up to the FA. The EFL can only sanction organisations, not individuals. However, I'd imagine the FA do have that capability since he's clearly responsible for breaking one of the rules of the EFL, one of the organisations they have jurisdiction over.

[ally_uk]

It's been a few days, yes initially I wanted heads to roll.

I think we shouldn't sack Tonda, Give him a slap on the wrist and we go again!

Beside chain a few wins together and all this will be old news, our fans won't be pissing the mattress then 🤣

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

9 minutes ago, Starksj1995 said:

He be gone soon anyway 

Tend to agree but who does he take with him? Everyone will be trying to distance themselves from him, but was he really acting as a lone wolf? Which of the analysts went on scouting surveys? Who did the due diligence on his appointment? Did the players know? Who in senior management knew of his activities but didn't stop him? If anything, they're equally culpable.

[PortugalSaint1]

I agree with ally-uk, we shouldn’t sack the Manager.  To be honest, after the weekend etc Southampton will be tomorrows chip paper.

Next season on the terraces there could be a bit of shouting etc but I am sure it will die down once we start winning again and also our terraces can give it back. In other words fuck em and onward and upward.

[PortugalSaint1]

22 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Tend to agree but who does he take with him? Everyone will be trying to distance themselves from him, but was he really acting as a lone wolf? Which of the analysts went on scouting surveys? Who did the due diligence on his appointment? Did the players know? Who in senior management knew of his activities but didn't stop him? If anything, they're equally culpable.

 

[revolution saint]

30 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Mate, are you serious? He has 46 games to watch players etc., by the end of the season - all the data in the world.

You've just highlighted his impressive attention to detail and analytical skills to counter players... But apparently you think that's happened without any credit given to his analytical skills 🤦‍♂️

There are some seriously gaslit people at this point tbh. For the love of god, would you lot snap out of the media blitz and realise how out of proportion this has all got, and how warped your perspectives have got. Southampton is your club!!!

We broke the rules and scouted opposition training inside an arbitrary window that doesn't exist anywhere else in major European football. A bit naughty, cheating for the EFL rules sure, but fairly minor in significance to many offences that go on inside football, and absolutely amateur hour by the club re execution and handling... but then equally Woop de bloody do - bielsa did it for an entire season (rule or no rule) and he got a 200k fine and no ban. Nothing has significantly changed in terms of the advantage gained in 7years - we have just been stitched up horrendously and given a ludicrous punishment. We should have received a fine and small points deduction and the whole world knows it.

But outside this, Eckert remains a class coach on the pitch. And how anyone can dismiss his analytical skills, attention to detail, and his drilling of the side is beyond me.

Some people are making out like analysis of players and team tactics offers zero useful evidence until it's the last training day before the game, and then that's the only data that matters... And then trying to say that tonda's run was due to that? So what - hes a superb analyst for that last training session, but then completely useless for the other 99% of data available? (I.e. the actual matches) 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I guess it was a bloody good job those last sessions showed that all the teams we scouted suffered against 4-2-3-1 formations with target men centre forwards! That was a close call, we'd have been stuck doing 5 at the back with AA up top for the rest of the season if it wasn't for these secret spying sessions - tonda far to clueless to have figured that out without cheating right? 😵

If he is guilty of bullying it's a separate issue. 100% not acceptable. But telling staff to buck up the quality of their work is not bullying. I am yet to see actual evidence of bullying, just more media blitz against the club and further trial by media that our own fans are quite happy to jump onto the bandwagon of.

What I've seen is a reference to salt expressing morale uncertainty, and an unrelated reference to Eckert saying to improve the quality of the scouting reports.

And ultimately, even now, everyone involved is due a fair hearing on what's actually happened - even parsons 🌚😐.

Besides, with this media shit storm, the fa will ban him, almost certainly. The EFL and the fa have to look tough on smaller and vulnerable clubs because they do absolutely sod all to the real cheats.

Succinctly put as always  😉  I do agree with you on a lot of this though and there is a part of me that thinks the reaction to the crime is a direct result of the harshness of the penalty imposed.  If we'd got away with it then there wouldn't be the outrage we see now.

[PortugalSaint1]

Too much chewing the cud is done in the UK especially by the press which wind up the general public.  The press in the UK are tomorrow’s chip paper so do we really care?  Lets Move on rather than pick over the bones.

[die Mannyschaft]

Tonda cant stay got to go. Can you imagine him staying he would be spying on the refs and linesman, grounds man, fitness facilities, coach drives, anything to get an advantage. Tonda and the people at the who knew and let this happen have ruined the club and need to go. 

Club is heavy handed with fans running on pitch or drinking can beer in ground so should hit these people just as hard.

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Succinctly put as always  😉  I do agree with you on a lot of this though and there is a part of me that thinks the reaction to the crime is a direct result of the harshness of the penalty imposed.  If we'd got away with it then there wouldn't be the outrage we see now.

Well no, because if we'd got away with it then that would have meant him being cleared of any wrongdoing.

Once it came to light what had happened and how he had acted then getting away with it was no longer possible.

[revolution saint]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Well no, because if we'd got away with it then that would have meant him being cleared of any wrongdoing.

Once it came to light what had happened and how he had acted then getting away with it was no longer possible.

Well no, not exactly.  He could have been still found guilty and we could received a lesser punishment (which is pretty much what most people expected before the verdict came in).  I don't think the outrage would have been as great if that had been the case.  Obviously there's an element of hindsight in this and not all the facts were available previously so I'm not exactly making a definitive point (and it's not a hill I'm going to die on) but yeah, I still think a lot of the reaction is a direct result of the punishment and not necessarily the crime itself.

[Mboto Gorge]

I think one thing certain here, is that the spying definitely began under Tonda, because Will Still sure as shit wasn’t spying on anyone 

Edited 3 hours ago by Mboto Gorge

[Sheaf Saint]

9 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Well no, not exactly.  He could have been still found guilty and we could received a lesser punishment (which is pretty much what most people expected before the verdict came in).  I don't think the outrage would have been as great if that had been the case.  Obviously there's an element of hindsight in this and not all the facts were available previously so I'm not exactly making a definitive point (and it's not a hill I'm going to die on) but yeah, I still think a lot of the reaction is a direct result of the punishment and not necessarily the crime itself.

I take your point. But the reason most people were expecting a more lenient ruling is because the full facts of what had gone on weren't known. Once the extent of his involvement became evident, I don't think there was ever any possible alternative to expulsion.

It's possible that a better legal team might have succeeded in avoiding that, on some kind of technicality perhaps. But it probably would have required an undertaking by the club to clean house and dismiss everyone involved. So even then, we'd have had no choice but to sack him anyway.

Edited 3 hours ago by Sheaf Saint

[revolution saint]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I take your point. But the reason most people were expecting a more lenient ruling is because the full facts of what had gone on weren't known. Once the extent of his involvement became evident, I don't think there was ever any possible alternative to expulsion.

It's possible that a better legal team might have succeeded in avoiding that, on some kind of technicality. But it probably would have required an undertaking by the club to clean house and dismiss everyone involved. So even then, we'd have had no choice but to sack him anyway.

Yeah, that's fair enough as we do know more now.  Just feels a bit funny how (at least some) people hold the two opposing beliefs that we've been harshly penalised and also believe Tonda has committed the footballing equivalent of genocide.  Not everyone mind and I imagine you're not one of them.

[Tommy]

Hes toast, but the club will be going through the correct processes and internal disciplinary procedures so that he can be sacked without pay off. 

 

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

Yeah, that's fair enough as we do know more now.  Just feels a bit funny how (at least some) people hold the two opposing beliefs that we've been harshly penalised and also believe Tonda has committed the footballing equivalent of genocide.  Not everyone mind and I imagine you're not one of them.

Ha! A dark thought just crossed my mind about the next wave of Tonda-face AI head swapping, but I'm guessing even ChatGPT would consider that to be crossing a line of good taste 🤣

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Tommy said:

Hes toast, but the club will be going through the correct processes and internal disciplinary procedures so that he can be sacked without pay off. 

 

We all assume this is taking place. Hopefully this is the right assumption

However...... you have seen how the club is run right....RIGHT?

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

We all assume this is taking place. Hopefully this is the right assumption

However...... you have seen how the club is run right....RIGHT?

Yeah I'm minded to apply a general rule here, as is true in all walks of life, that if incompetence appears to be a reasonable explanation for something then it's almost guaranteed to be the right one.

Especially when SR are involved.

[saintant]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Mate, are you serious? He has 46 games to watch players etc., by the end of the season - all the data in the world.

You've just highlighted his impressive attention to detail and analytical skills to counter players... But apparently you think that's happened without any credit given to his analytical skills 🤦‍♂️

There are some seriously gaslit people at this point tbh. For the love of god, would you lot snap out of the media blitz and realise how out of proportion this has all got, and how warped your perspectives have got. Southampton is your club!!!

We broke the rules and scouted opposition training inside an arbitrary window that doesn't exist anywhere else in major European football. A bit naughty, cheating for the EFL rules sure, but fairly minor in significance to many offences that go on inside football, and absolutely amateur hour by the club re execution and handling... but then equally Woop de bloody do - bielsa did it for an entire season (rule or no rule) and he got a 200k fine and no ban. Nothing has significantly changed in terms of the advantage gained in 7years - we have just been stitched up horrendously and given a ludicrous punishment. We should have received a fine and small points deduction and the whole world knows it.

But outside this, Eckert remains a class coach on the pitch. And how anyone can dismiss his analytical skills, attention to detail, and his drilling of the side is beyond me.

Some people are making out like analysis of players and team tactics offers zero useful evidence until it's the last training day before the game, and then that's the only data that matters... And then trying to say that tonda's run was due to that? So what - hes a superb analyst for that last training session, but then completely useless for the other 99% of data available? (I.e. the actual matches) 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

I guess it was a bloody good job those last sessions showed that all the teams we scouted suffered against 4-2-3-1 formations with target men centre forwards! That was a close call, we'd have been stuck doing 5 at the back with AA up top for the rest of the season if it wasn't for these secret spying sessions - tonda far to clueless to have figured that out without cheating right? 😵

If he is guilty of bullying it's a separate issue. 100% not acceptable. But telling staff to buck up the quality of their work is not bullying. I am yet to see actual evidence of bullying, just more media blitz against the club and further trial by media that our own fans are quite happy to jump onto the bandwagon of.

What I've seen is a reference to salt expressing morale uncertainty, and an unrelated reference to Eckert saying to improve the quality of the scouting reports.

And ultimately, even now, everyone involved is due a fair hearing on what's actually happened - even parsons 🌚😐.

Besides, with this media shit storm, the fa will ban him, almost certainly. The EFL and the fa have to look tough on smaller and vulnerable clubs because they do absolutely sod all to the real cheats.

Good points well made. I find it interesting that Salt went to spy on Oxford, allegedly refused to spy on Ipswich but then, all of a sudden, agreed to spy on Boro. What changed between the Ipswich game and the Boro game?Just another strand to the conspiracy theories floating around.

[pimpin4rizeal]

Those calling for this man to get sacked I hope we are not gonna hear you all moaning when we appoint another useless idiot like still and blow our last year of parachute payments .

Its in our best interests to back the great manager we have  it’s not like he’s gonna do the same thing again is it ? I think in a way the spying stuff shows how he tries to be as analytical as possible he went to far and that was a mistake but I still kinda love that he’s so tactical 

Edited 1 hour ago by pimpin4rizeal

[Mr X]

1 hour ago, Mboto Gorge said:

I think one thing certain here, is that the spying definitely began under Tonda, because Will Still sure as shit wasn’t spying on anyone 

Eastleigh under 5s maybe 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Mboto Gorge said:

I think one thing certain here, is that the spying definitely began under Tonda, because Will Still sure as shit wasn’t spying on anyone 

I heard he watched all the U21 games.

[LiberalCommunist]

What a mess.

[skintsaint]

He has been spotted in Trafalgar Sq this evening

[sfc4prem]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

He has been spotted in Trafalgar Sq this evening

Superb banter.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I'm a bit confused because I thought the forum consensus was that Cortese was great because he was driven to success and didn't care about upsetting people around him. Now Tonda has stained the name of our great family club?

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, saintant said:

You  must be listening to different players to me because, to a man, every one I've heard comment has said what you could gain is miniscule. 

Yes, I must be, because I'm talking about Saints players quotes that are resurfacing from during the season not ex-pros talking now.

[Pilchards]

17 minutes ago, sfc4prem said:

Superb banter.

I’m glad you’re enjoying it because I ain’t one bit.

Those cunts are laughing at us after setting us up for a fall.

I would go as far as saying they’re tickling our BOD’s like we are their puppy dog.

If only we had someone at our club who had some steel to put these cunts back where they belong.

[Ted Bates Statue]

I can only presume he's putting together a monster powerpoint presentation that would dispel all doubts for anyone who thinks that he's only had us performing because of some sort of Back To The Future almanac or Football Manager game cheat code. And he'll do it in English too.

Just a thought - The club have clearly used him as the scapegoat to save everyone else's jobs (particularly Parsons), but they could probably tolerate an interim manager while he serves out a 6 month ban. It would be no different to this season as we were basically rudderless for the first few months anyway, so it would be no big deal doing it all over again.

 

Edited 22 minutes ago by Ted Bates Statue

[Starksj1995]

3 hours ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Tend to agree but who does he take with him? Everyone will be trying to distance themselves from him, but was he really acting as a lone wolf? Which of the analysts went on scouting surveys? Who did the due diligence on his appointment? Did the players know? Who in senior management knew of his activities but didn't stop him? If anything, they're equally culpable.

Well, he hasn’t implicated anyone though that is the issue

[JohnnyShearer2.0]

Cant see how he can stay. Players (if not in the know) would be furious with him as would the rest of the club and fans as the chance for a shot at the premier league has been wasted in the worst circumstances. 

[Mk1J]

How many training grounds can you actually spy on in this league? I’d assumed if they admitted to 3 there’s bound to be more, but actually there can’t be many teams stupid enough to build a hotel and golf course next to their training ground.