Boro vs Saints - Saturday 12.30pm - 1st leg

[skintsaint]

[LegalEagle]

1 minute ago, madge said:

Might not have anything to

appeal against.. club appear to have screwed up big time. Embarrassing and who ever sanctioned this needs gone asap.

We might want to appeal against the penalty imposed. If it’s just a fine we should accept it, pay it and move on. 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, LegalEagle said:

Whatever decision the EFL try and make there are rules in place in terms of giving the Defendant, so to speak, time to make representations. There is also then the right to appeal and for the appeal to be heard. This could then easily end up in the High Court or before an appeal tribunal. Nothing will be finally decided if it is anything more than a fine before the Play Off final. This could run and run.

Well, it could yes. But how much to make an actual difference other than a big fine. If this was caught during the season, what might a harsh penalty be deemed as? A points deduction is about as bad as it would get. Saints finished 7 points above Hull in 6th place. So you can’t imagine a regular points deduction would be anywhere near 7 points, that would utterly ludicrous. I’m thinking at the very, very worst, a 1 or 2 points deduction might be possible. And even that is a thorough unknown.

So, let’s say we did get docked a couple of points, we’re still in the playoffs and still playing Middlesbrough. The only thing that changes is that Boro would be at home in the second leg. So quite how you equalise that with a punishment right now, fuck knows.

I wouldn’t fancy being on the EFL panel that has to look into this! 

But it’s such a needless and embarrassing fiasco to be in. A completely idiotic scenario to be caught in.

[die Mannyschaft]

47 minutes ago, SouSaint said:

 

 

[trousers]

19 minutes ago, James G said:

I don't think the club would have sanctioned this. It's Middlesbrough, there are no surprises and there's nothing to see. If you are going to spy, you do it at the start of the season when you don't know anything. Even then, any intel would be very limited 

If the roles were reversed, I'd say the same thing. Both clubs have seen enough of each other this season. The whole situation is just comical 

It's probably just a rogue employee trying to further his prospects in a daft way. Just sack them and move on

This is the best case scenario, and fingers crossed that's what it is. If it was sanctioned by anyone in the club management chain then whoever that is needs their head examining. My fear is that Tonda was knowingly involved which, worst case scenario, could see him getting sacked or quitting and tarnishing the rest of his career.

Either way, it doesn't get much more Saintsy than shooting yourself in the foot when all is starting to look rosey...

[die Mannyschaft]

Didn't Saints buy a player from Boro who would know all thier tactics and best players etc etc?

[skintsaint]

Saints need to hire this guy just to make sure it drags on for years :

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/who-lord-pannick-man-city-29947278

[skintsaint]

https://www.southamptonfc.com/en/news/article/club-statement-8th-may-2026

[trousers]

[Dr Who?]

We have a whole season. You can watch all their games somewhere online. This is not the 1950s, we know how they play in great detail, not just on the pitch but the stats as well. I just don’t get it, what do you really gain by doing this? 

[sfc4prem]

9 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

He's turned into a bit of a potato, hasn't he?

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

This is the best case scenario, and fingers crossed that's what it is. If it was sanctioned by anyone in the club management chain then whoever that is needs their head examining. My fear is that Tonda was knowingly involved which, worst case scenario, could see him getting sacked or quitting and tarnishing the rest of his career.

Either way, it doesn't get much more Saintsy than shooting yourself in the foot when all is starting to look rosey...

Tarnishing the rest of his career? Be serious.

[macca155]

WTF is that statement .... ridiculous 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, Football Special said:

From a fairly reliable source it sounds like there is some truth to all this. Bit of a shambles from the club, got to crack on with it, hardly like we've gained an advantage,  do our talking on the pitch 

Not disputing you have heard something but I'd be amazed if anything was leaked before the club make a statement. To leak a single word would be seriously tinpot.

[Dr Who?]

Just now, trousers said:

Great

[Saint_clark]

13 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

Whatever decision the EFL try and make there are rules in place in terms of giving the Defendant, so to speak, time to make representations. There is also then the right to appeal and for the appeal to be heard. This could then easily end up in the High Court or before an appeal tribunal. Nothing will be finally decided if it is anything more than a fine before the Play Off final. This could run and run.

The EFL are probably hoping Boro just beat us so that they can give us a fine and a 3 point deduction for next season and be done with it. If we end up getting promoted it makes things messy as fuck for them.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, macca155 said:

WTF is that statement .... ridiculous 

Not sure what you're confused about, that's a pretty obvious "we can't deny it because it's true, but we also can't just say nothing" statement. 

[trousers]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Tarnishing the rest of his career? Be serious.

Ok, fair enough, maybe a tad over the top... But if he was in anyway instrumental in any of this "cheating" then it's surely going to negatively affect his reputation in the game for some time to come? 

[die Mannyschaft]

1 minute ago, Dr Who? said:

We have a whole season. You can watch all their games somewhere online. This is not the 1950s, we know how they play in great detail, not just on the pitch but the stats as well. I just don’t get it, what do you really gain by doing this? 

Its the most stupid thing a club can do. Unless you one of the top 6 in Premier League you'll get away with it otherwise its curtains

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Saint_clark said:

Not sure what you're confused about, that's a pretty obvious "we can't deny it because it's true, but we also can't just say nothing" statement. 

Probably but the only other possibility is that the intern did it off his own back or it was some low level employee thing that senior staff weren't aware of. Probably unlikely though.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, die Mannyschaft said:

Its the most stupid thing a club can do. Unless you one of the top 6 in Premier League you'll get away with it otherwise its curtains

Explain what you mean but that.

[saintant]

49 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Contradictions, yes, but they’re not inaccuracies unless you know what has actually unfolded.  Whatever’s happened is serious enough for the EFL to charge the club.  

As I said yesterday, there is no way this made the papers if it was a massive fabrication.  It’s crazy to think otherwise. There would have been an outright denial from the club to the Mail, which broke the story, for starters.

Well the whistle blower thing is clearly rubbish because it's been disputed on Boro's own fans forum by people who have had dealings with the guy and know him to be a fruit loop. As to where the fleeing spy went to change it can't be difficult to establish whether it was a golf clubhouse or a hotel, they are two completely different things - we're told he was seen by witnesses so why would there be a discrepancy.

[Saint_clark]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Probably but the only other possibility is that the intern did it off his own back or it was some low level employee thing that senior staff weren't aware of. Probably unlikely though.

If that was the case I'm pretty sure they'd just say that, and announce the employee had been terminated. 

[beatlesaint]

5 minutes ago, Dr Who? said:

We have a whole season. You can watch all their games somewhere online. This is not the 1950s, we know how they play in great detail, not just on the pitch but the stats as well. I just don’t get it, what do you really gain by doing this? 

Basically what the Hull City manager said on Sky.

 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, trousers said:

So not coming out and vigorously denying any wrongdoing 

what an embarrassment fucking ridiculous 

[Saint86]

7 minutes ago, trousers said:

If Tonda wrote club statements?

[macca155]

5 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Not sure what you're confused about, that's a pretty obvious "we can't deny it because it's true, but we also can't just say nothing" statement. 

Well yes obviously, but don't their own fans deserve some explanation. 

Imagine how shit it will be for those travelling to Middlesbrough tomorrow.

[LegalEagle]

We have probably breached the rules. The question then for the EFL is did we or have we gained an unfair advantage in our matches against Boro. That will all come down to the extent of the evidence that Boro have collated. I assume that it’s minimal and therefore any penalty has to be commensurate with that. A fine for sure and at worst a small points deduction for the next time we’re in the EFL. 

[saintant]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

It's a hotel and golf 'complex'.

Some have a clubhouse and hotel.

[Micky]

I'm guessing that, if he was in the know, Tonda has just blown his premiere league promotion bonus. 

[BotleySaint]

Just now, LegalEagle said:

A fine for sure and at worst a small points deduction for the next time we’re in the EFL. 

This. Legal precedent has been set in the past wtih the Leeds fine being adequate punishment. They'd have to argue this case is somehow different and more severe. Certainly significantly different to warrant anything like being kicked out of the playoffs etc.

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, BotleySaint said:

This. Legal precedent has been set in the past wtih the Leeds fine being adequate punishment. They'd have to argue this case is somehow different and more severe. Certainly significantly different to warrant anything like being kicked out of the playoffs etc.

Not really a precedent when new rules were written after the Leeds incident. 

[Tom57]

I think the EFL are working out how not to piss off the highest number of people. People they can piss off:

Sky/other broadcasters if they give Middlesbrough a bye and don't let them televise these semi finals

Middlesbrough (obviously) if we win the semi final then get kicked out then they'll ask why they had play the two games in the first place if they were just going to get awarded a win anyway. Imagine if Hackney gets injured in the 70th minute of the second leg and he can't play in the final. Obviously if we go through then they'll say we only got there as we cheated and any fine pails in comparison to the premier League money 

Millwall/Hull will be annoyed if Middlesbrough just get a bye and they've had to play two tough competitive fixtures 

Wrexham will be annoyed if we get kicked out the playoffs and they never get their chance to replace us

[BotleySaint]

6 minutes ago, macca155 said:

Imagine how shit it will be for those travelling to Middlesbrough tomorrow.

Eh? I'd rather imagine how hilarious it will be after we smash them 4 nil tomorrow.

[SNSUN]

38 minutes ago, LGTL said:

Team tomorrow then lads, what we thinking?

Peretz, Bree, Stephen, THB, Manning, Downes, Jander, Scienza, Azaz, Fellows, Larin. 

1-2 Saints 

Shit I forgot there was a game tomorrow. I was busy making AIs about EspionageGate.

But yeah that's the line up for me if everyone is fit. Matsuki to be eased back in. I don't mind us starting Wood though, Jack off the bench, if he's not fully fit.

[The Kraken]

Just now, BotleySaint said:

This. Legal precedent has been set in the past wtih the Leeds fine being adequate punishment. They'd have to argue this case is somehow different and more severe. Certainly significantly different to warrant anything like being kicked out of the playoffs etc.

Legal precedent hasn’t been set at all because there wasn’t a rule in place when Leeds did it. The rule was introduced entirely because of Leeds. So, their punishment was a slap on the wrists, a basic breaking of the moral code and then a closing of the loophole. We, it seems, broke the subsequent rule that was enacted. So,  no, no precedent there.

[James G]

The Saints press release says alleged offences rather than offences

The wording implies they're not pleading guilty straight away anyway.

The lawyers are obviously earning their money

[Willo of Whiteley]

I’d be wanting to know who sanctioned this

[danjosaint]

I wonder if it was to see purely if Hackney was fit for the game

[saintant]

44 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I bet if we don’t go up we’ll be fined and start on minus 3 points next season. They’ll make an example of us and if we are guilty rightly so. We will be tainted as cheats now for the foreseeable future. 

Every team in the land cheats in full view of millions with all the diving and play acting that goes on.  

[Saint NL]

Pfff Spies Schmies.

All the more reason to smash them tomorrow. Shame this is only the semi final, with all this drama it should be the final.

[CanadaSaint]

It’s a cretinously stupid thing for Saints to do, but - if proven - the EFL have to keep a sense of proportion and make sure that “the punishment fits the crime”, no matter how shrill the noise coming from Boro.

Spying is NOT illegal, other than in the 72 hours before a game, so what we apparently did would have been fine if we’d done it the previous day; it can’t suddenly become a capital offence with the tick of the clock. Also, we did this once (no proof otherwise), and Bielsa’s Leeds did it all season; they received a fine – not a points deduction or a transfer embargo, never mind removal from a competition. If the EFL tries to remove us, it’s probably going to be challenged in court as excessive punishment.

My hunch is that there’s a lot of teams out there thinking “There but for the grace of God go I”, and the authorities know it.

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

If that was the case I'm pretty sure they'd just say that, and announce the employee had been terminated. 

Not if it's been cooked up by a couple of lower level employees or something-it would require investigating. All speculation at this point though and more likely that we did know and thought it was worth the risk for some reason.

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Willo of Whiteley said:

I’d be wanting to know who sanctioned this

If the activity was sanctioned by the club then surely Tonda would have to be 'in the know', even if it wasn't him who instigated it..? I know I'm in danger of over-reacting here but I've got a bad feeling about this and a hunch that Tonda won't be here much longer if he was aware and/or instrumental in what happened...

[hypochondriac]

4 minutes ago, danjosaint said:

I wonder if it was to see purely if Hackney was fit for the game

Well we will know now won't we.

[benjii]

Apparently it was Rasmus.

[trousers]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

Spying is NOT illegal, other than in the 72 hours before a game, so what we apparently did would have been fine if we’d done it the previous day

Here's a theory... Maybe we sent this intern fella up there the day before, with the intent of not breaching the 72 hour rule, but the daft kid then decided off his own back to pop over again the next day...? #clutchingatstraws

[trousers]

Just now, benjii said:

Apparently it was Rasmus.

Source or just a quip?

(As it happens, the thought did cross my mind earlier that he might have had something to do with it....)

 

[Britannia]

4 minutes ago, benjii said:

Apparently it was Rasmus.

Imagine the meltdown on here if Rasmus was involved.

Anyway, this was a stupid thing to do in this position, if the punishment were to be disqualification from the play offs.

At best the optics look really silly and puts everyone for the opposition.

Edited 1 hour ago by Britannia

[die Mannyschaft]

16 minutes ago, LegalEagle said:

We have probably breached the rules. The question then for the EFL is did we or have we gained an unfair advantage in our matches against Boro. That will all come down to the extent of the evidence that Boro have collated. I assume that it’s minimal and therefore any penalty has to be commensurate with that. A fine for sure and at worst a small points deduction for the next time we’re in the EFL. 

This eill lose us the game tomorrow.  Can you imagine the Boro atmosphere and their players doubling thier efforts. We struggle with corners let alone an attacking side. We struggle to concentrate during games as it is. 

The idiot who sanctioned this has lost us the play off final chance.