Tonda Eckert

[warsash saint]

10 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Sorry if Ive missed this but why has is taken this long for this to happen. Why not as soon as the league finished so we could plan ?

Probably because they have all been on a piss up at the WC!!

[sockeye]

Absolute disgrace to string this out for so long.

[kitch]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I know I said this before we were booted out of the playoffs, but I cannot see the manager getting banned. Touchline bans at most, surely. 

If they do ban him from football, and we are forced to appoint a new manager and upset all the players/plans, whilst we have already started pre-season...then football is over for me. It'll be done.

Kinda hard not to see it this way, if I'm honest

[egg]

20 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

God this fucking club is weak. 

Stop ‘accepting’ things. Fucking contest it. We’re being double dipped here.

Get the best legal representation in the land and tell the FA to go fuck itself.

fucksake.
 

 

What's the defence to misconduct when you've admitted something which is misconduct?

There's also findings that we're guilty "contrived and determined plan from the top down". We're stuck with those findings as a fact to be punished on. 

There's no defence. It's mitigation. 

We took an unrealistic approach to the League charges, and paid the price. The lesson to have learned was to be more realistic - defending something that a) you've admitted, and b) been found to have done, isn't realistic. 

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm assuming they'll ban him, for a relatively short period, and the ban has more impact if it kicks in during pre season than just after the season ends. 

Or just maybe it's no more complicated or sinister than the FA have all been away living it large on expense accounts in the US. I don't think it's a coincidence that this has come out now, just 3 days after the world cup finished.

[trousers]

41 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Which is different to bringing the game into disrepute first willingly breaching a known EFL rule

So are you suggesting it's only possible to "bring the game into disrepute" (from the FA's perspective) if a league rule has been broken? 

For example, if there's no league rule that says: "managers must not have a shit on the pitch at half time" and the manager has a shit on the pitch at half time, that can't be considered 'disreputable'...?

[Saint NL]

17 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Sorry if Ive missed this but why has is taken this long for this to happen. Why not as soon as the league finished so we could plan ?

Gibbo was on his summer hols and couldn't be arsed to figure out a punishment until he got back

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Or just maybe it's no more complicated or sinister than the FA have all been away living it large on expense accounts in the US. I don't think it's a coincidence that this has come out now, just 3 days after the world cup finished.

Maybe, but I'm not sure the FA stops functioning during tournaments. Let's see what happens, but there's no doubting that any ban starting soon hurts more than a ban starting a while ago. 

[beatlesaint]

Can we please get a fkin ban on people posting “ChatGPT thinks this” ?

Its totally irrelevant what a computer that searches the internet for what it thinks are corroborating facts comes up with !!

[EssEffCee]

Thought I'd see how excited the Boro lot were getting, bit weird that they have over 100 posts on a charge everyone knew was coming.

[revolution saint]

1 minute ago, beatlesaint said:

Can we please get a fkin ban on people posting “ChatGPT thinks this” ?

Its totally irrelevant what a computer that searches the internet for what it thinks are corroborating facts comes up with !!

Complete aside but I sometimes use AI to give me scout reports on linked players cos it's not too bad at summarising stuff.  Invariably it'll come back with how well (or bad) said player will fit into Russell Martin's possession based game.  Seems like AI is fixated with him as much as we are.

[egg]

5 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Can we please get a fkin ban on people posting “ChatGPT thinks this” ?

Its totally irrelevant what a computer that searches the internet for what it thinks are corroborating facts comes up with !!

Yep, but out of interest, what's the Chat GPT prediction? 

[beatlesaint]

2 minutes ago, EssEffCee said:

Thought I'd see how excited the Boro lot were getting, bit weird that they have over 100 posts on a charge everyone knew was coming.

What’s wrong with them ffs? Surely if he hadn’t been charged the EFL would have been in an awkward position legally so that was never happening 

[beatlesaint]

Just now, egg said:

Yep, but out of interest, what's the Chat GPT prediction? 

Everything from a slap on the wrist through to a public execution at dawn in Middlesbrough next Friday !! 😉

[Sheaf Saint]

The whole point of any punishment is to set a deterrent to try and prevent the transgression happening again.

Given the punishment the club has already received, and the huge media coverage of it all, I think we can safely say the chances of Tonda even considering doing this again anytime soon are slim to none. Therefore, if the FA do decide to hit him with a lengthy ban then it will be solely out of petty vindictiveness rather than a considered measure to educate and correct the behaviour.

Hopefully we've learned from the debacle of the EFL investigation and will be in a better position to push back against any excessive measures. A lengthy ban for Tonda wouldn't just punish him, but would have a huge negative impact on the entire club, who have already been severely punished as a whole by the EFL. I hope we've still got Lord Pannick retained to argue that point if necessary.

[Saint Pete]

22 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Sorry if Ive missed this but why has is taken this long for this to happen. Why not as soon as the league finished so we could plan ?

I'm afraid I'm pretty cynical about the reasons. The facts were all out there at the end of the season so they could/should have charged him there and then. But it wouldn't have had the impact in terms of media coverage or of the ban itself if decision was made on the eve of or during the World Cup. It's pretty clear this is being timed nicely so that the ban is dropped a couple of weeks before season starts and the FA get a nice wedge of media coverage on how they are making an example of Tonda/Saints to ensure better behaviour in the future. I fully expect a meaty ban, so anything less will be a pleasant surprise! 

[Saint Garrett]

35 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Sorry if Ive missed this but why has is taken this long for this to happen. Why not as soon as the league finished so we could plan ?

They were all watching the world cup

[leesaint88]

1 hour ago, SNSUN said:

After the EFL booted us out the play-off final, I always expect the worst now.

Exactly this. He'll be banned for the season, no doubt the EFL will find some more points to take off us too. 

[coalman]

24 minutes ago, trousers said:

So are you suggesting it's only possible to "bring the game into disrepute" (from the FA's perspective) if a league rule has been broken? 

For example, if there's no league rule that says: "managers must not have a shit on the pitch at half time" and the manager has a shit on the pitch at half time, that can't be considered 'disreputable'...?

It would depend on what the manager ate the night before.

[VectisSaint]

54 minutes ago, Crab Lungs said:

God this fucking club is weak. 

Stop ‘accepting’ things. Fucking contest it. We’re being double dipped here.

Get the best legal representation in the land and tell the FA to go fuck itself.

fucksake.
 

 

They haven't accepted anything. They have merely acknowledged receipt of the charges. 

[Thereisonlyonemickychannon]

I think the FA are bringing the game into disrepute by leaving it soooooo long. Disgusting. If Tonda is banned then this is a farce!

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

46 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

They haven't accepted anything. They have merely acknowledged receipt of the charges. 

This time, they need to do more than acknowledge receipt of the charges. SFC needs to go on the offensive. The company needs to make it clear that it is still considering legal action for the potential loss of £200 million in revenue and for the damage to the name of the club and owner. 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think we have been royally f**ked and are not doing anything about it. 

[John B]

2 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

This time, they need to do more than acknowledge receipt of the charges. SFC needs to go on the offensive. The company needs to make it clear that it is still considering legal action for the potential loss of £200 million in revenue and for the damage to the name of the club and owner. 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think we have been royally f**ked and are not doing anything about it. 

You must have missed the fact that the club accepted that they had done wrong 

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

5 minutes ago, John B said:

You must have missed the fact that the club accepted that they had done wrong 

You can accept you've done wrong but still ridicule the rules. It's breaking no rules to scout in the premier league but somehow it's a heinous crime in the EFL. Then you can scout in the EFL four days before a game but not three. Bielsa gets fined £200k - for us, they add four more zeros. It's all wrong. 

[Saint Pete]

25 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

This time, they need to do more than acknowledge receipt of the charges. SFC needs to go on the offensive. The company needs to make it clear that it is still considering legal action for the potential loss of £200 million in revenue and for the damage to the name of the club and owner. 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think we have been royally f**ked and are not doing anything about it. 

What I do think we could and should have done is pressed the FA at the end of the season for a clear timescale for when a decision would be made and publicly push for it to be as soon as possible to try to avoid the situation we are in now where a ban could be dropped on us right at the start of the season. I think that should have been totally unacceptable given the facts were all known already. 

[jrobsbigshorts]

In the midst of the media pile on the one person most qualified to comment on spygate IMO Stefan Borson  said on White and Jordan  he thought we should be punished but what the EFL did was unprecedented and disproportionate , he suggested a big fine and that the Boro game should be replayed , I'm bias but I agree completely, if Tonda gets a ban it'll be a fucking piss take ,triple jeopardy, we can accept wrong doing but still fight the severity of the punishment can't we?

[VectisSaint]

33 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

This time, they need to do more than acknowledge receipt of the charges. SFC needs to go on the offensive. The company needs to make it clear that it is still considering legal action for the potential loss of £200 million in revenue and for the damage to the name of the club and owner. 

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think we have been royally f**ked and are not doing anything about it. 

You don't do this when you acknowledge the charge. Its a formality, the FA issue a charge and the Club/Tonda acknowledge receipt. Tonda has up to Tuesday to respond, that is the time and place to admit or not the charge and to make mitigations etc. It would be rank stupidity to kick up a fuss now. The loss to the club is not a matter for the FA, that is a matter for the EFL, and you need to be aware that the EFL, like most other sporting organisations have clauses in their "membership" along the lines of "you accept the punishment handed out and have no right of appeal".

[hypochondriac]

Some suggestion that the reason for the delay was due to Tpndas's pregnant wife. If so then fair enough?

[TheAlehouseBrawlers]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

Some suggestion that the reason for the delay was due to Tpndas's pregnant wife. If so then fair enough?

Fuck me, are they charging her too…?

Got Absolute Radio on, their news report keeps banging on about “multiple spying charge offences” - it was three but doesn’t sound so bad just saying that

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, TheAlehouseBrawlers said:

Fuck me, are they charging her too…?

Got Absolute Radio on, their news report keeps banging on about “multiple spying charge offences” - it was three but doesn’t sound so bad just saying that

Technically it was just three instances of the same thing (that we had already admitted to months ago.) Not sure why it's such big news.

[Lighthouse]

27 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

You can accept you've done wrong but still ridicule the rules. It's breaking no rules to scout in the premier league but somehow it's a heinous crime in the EFL. Then you can scout in the EFL four days before a game but not three. Bielsa gets fined £200k - for us, they add four more zeros. It's all wrong. 

Apparently I can drive down my road at 30mph but if I do it at 35mph I get a speeding fine. What lunacy.

[James]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Apparently I can drive down my road at 30mph but if I do it at 35mph I get a speeding fine. What lunacy.

The difference being that if you do 35mph you aren’t banned from driving…

[Ralph Fastenbüttl]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

How would they know. Clutching at straws I'm afraid. The guy's going down for a while

How would you know? Clutching at straws I'm afraid.

[John B]

20 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

You can accept you've done wrong but still ridicule the rules. It's breaking no rules to scout in the premier league but somehow it's a heinous crime in the EFL. Then you can scout in the EFL four days before a game but not three. Bielsa gets fined £200k - for us, they add four more zeros. It's all wrong. 

The bloke is fucking guilty get over it and wait and see what  punishment he gets 

 

He appears to lack integrity and may have jeopardized the future of the club if he was not the messiah he would probably be sacked

 

[UpweySaint]

3 minutes ago, James said:

The difference being that if you do 35mph you aren’t banned from driving…

Could Tonda be punished by being sent on a speed awareness course? They are enough to bore anybody half to death - punishment enough in my book 😅

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, James said:

The difference being that if you do 35mph you aren’t banned from driving…

You're ignoring the point. A very large number of things are defined as being either legal or illegal either side of a specific numerical value. If Tonda couldn't figure that out and do his spying four days before the playoff match, that's on him.

[sadoldgit]

10 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Apparently I can drive down my road at 30mph but if I do it at 35mph I get a speeding fine. What lunacy.

You will only get one punishment though. The council won’t come along after you have paid your fine and confiscate your car.

[sadoldgit]

6 minutes ago, John B said:

The bloke is fucking guilty get over it and wait and see what  punishment he gets 

 

He appears to lack integrity and may have jeopardized the future of the club if he was not the messiah he would probably be sacked

 

He’s not the messiah…you know the rest.

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

You will only get one punishment though. The council won’t come along after you have paid your fine and confiscate your car.

No but you can get a punishment from the council and also from your employer. So your example doesn't work.

Please can everyone stop posting up utterly pointless analogies.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

You will only get one punishment though. The council won’t come along after you have paid your fine and confiscate your car.

Which punishment has Tonda been given so far?

[Wade Garrett]

21 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Some suggestion that the reason for the delay was due to Tpndas's pregnant wife. If so then fair enough?

Gibson is gong to have the baby taken away.

[IronCitySaint]

I would hope the football authorities would be fair and reasonable, but we all know they aren't and will not be. It is clear they are going to make an example of us again, so a minimum one year ban. I hope the club have not been sitting on their arses and already have a replacement lined up. But again, we all know how SR operates so they probably won't start looking until the day after the ban is announced. All this screws up an already messy pre-season. Football stinks.

[sadoldgit]

The FA has decided that Tonda has done enough to bring the game into disrupt. If it is down to him, why did the EFL find the club guilty and punish the club? It seems to me that either one or the other is responsible, not both. They are getting two bites of the cherry. The EFL have gone after the club with a disproportionate punishment and the FA look like they could do the same with Tonda. Two lots of punishment for one crime for which two separate bodies have been held responsible for. How does that work in the cause of justice? 

 

[sadoldgit]

5 minutes ago, IronCitySaint said:

I would hope the football authorities would be fair and reasonable, but we all know they aren't and will not be. It is clear they are going to make an example of us again, so a minimum one year ban. I hope the club have not been sitting on their arses and already have a replacement lined up. But again, we all know how SR operates so they probably won't start looking until the day after the ban is announced. All this screws up an already messy pre-season. Football stinks.

You are making a huge assumption here. SR aren’t mugs. They will know what the possible outcomes are. Any company makes contingency plans for worst case scenarios and it is not SR’s fault that the FA have taken so long to deal with this matter.

[tdmickey3]

11 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Which punishment has Tonda been given so far?

Denial of the opportunity to challenge for a chance to manage in the premier league and receive the pay increase this would entail

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The FA has decided that Tonda has done enough to bring the game into disrupt. If it is down to him, why did the EFL find the club guilty and punish the club? It seems to me that either one or the other is responsible, not both. They are getting two bites of the cherry. The EFL have gone after the club with a disproportionate punishment and the FA look like they could do the same with Tonda. Two lots of punishment for one crime for which two separate bodies have been held responsible for. How does that work in the cause of justice? 

 

Well this is precisely why Dragan has mentioned double jeopardy and why he will go big legally with an appeal should it be necessary.

[warsash saint]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

You are making a huge assumption here. SR aren’t mugs. They will know what the possible outcomes are. Any company makes contingency plans for worst case scenarios and it is not SR’s fault that the FA have taken so long to deal with this matter.

You never saw how SR handled the EFL charges??

Edited 52 minutes ago by warsash saint

[sadoldgit]

18 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Which punishment has Tonda been given so far?

He has got cheat stamped on his CV for ever and is responsible for a football club being removed from a football match which has cost them millions. Don’t you think living with that isn’t a punishment? If he gets a personal punishment, why then punish the club too if the fault is his alone? If you get a speeding fine the responsibility is yours alone.

If I remember correctly only Leeds were held accountable not the manager (although he paid the fine himself).

Edited 50 minutes ago by sadoldgit

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The FA has decided that Tonda has done enough to bring the game into disrupt. If it is down to him, why did the EFL find the club guilty and punish the club? It seems to me that either one or the other is responsible, not both. They are getting two bites of the cherry. The EFL have gone after the club with a disproportionate punishment and the FA look like they could do the same with Tonda. Two lots of punishment for one crime for which two separate bodies have been held responsible for. How does that work in the cause of justice? 

 

what a load of nonsense. The club benefited from cheating and can be punished as a club. Tonda was the instigator and lead on the cheating and can also be punished as an individual.

It absolutely can be "one or the other" as we have seen when organisations (like NHS trusts) are punished and then individuals in that organisation are also punished.

There's no two bites of the cherry, just Saints and Saints fans moaning. Get over it.

[DellBlockH]

17 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Which punishment has Tonda been given so far?

Loss of bonus for getting to EPL (assuming we would have won the final), loss of EPL-level wage (assuming we would have won the final), loss of reputation and threats to his life sufficiently serious for the police to offer protection. None of these, admittedly, have been imposed by the FA. But he hasn't exactly got away with it.