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Pompey Takeover Saga

Fitzhugh Fella

By Fitzhugh Fella,
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Micky

Micky

Posted
Posted
So then, now that cva1 is dead as confirmed by Birch, the £16.5m payable from said cva + 10.1m from CSI + a worst case scenario of £17m to Chinny + £3m to HMRC = £46.5m of which at most 20% will form cva2 = just over £9m.

 

Whether the creditors would agree to it is a moot point, but faced with the choice of 20% or the square root of **** all, I can see them going for it...

 

You deserve your club, your club deserves you, you deserve each other.

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sussexsaint

sussexsaint

Posted
Posted
What's the FL penalty for entering a 2nd season whilst still in admin ? Without a buyer, could they limp on until September ?

 

without a buyer they will not survive the close season - they have admitted they are limping by at a time when there is gate revenue and money from the FL.

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The Kraken

The Kraken

Posted
Posted
So then, now that cva1 is dead as confirmed by Birch, the £16.5m payable from said cva + 10.1m from CSI + a worst case scenario of £17m to Chinny + £3m to HMRC = £46.5m of which at most 20% will form cva2 = just over £9m.

 

Whether the creditors would agree to it is a moot point, but faced with the choice of 20% or the square root of **** all, I can see them going for it...

 

As I said at the top of this page; the CVA is administered by Baker Tilly, who were effectively put in place by HMRC. And their policy is to oppose any CVA that provides anything less than full repayment of all debt.

 

So good luck with that one.

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holepuncture

holepuncture

Posted
Posted
Heads up guys....Webchat going on now on The Snooze website for you that want to wind up the blue few !!

 

Gutted to miss the webchat, I would have asked about the sickening act of shaking off the CVA MKI, breaking the bank in the summer and next years promo charge.

 

Whether the creditors would agree to it is a moot point, but faced with the choice of 20% or the square root of **** all, I can see them going for it...

 

Funny that, you come across just like my persona on POL... no wonder I do alright over there

 

yep, looks like pompey are in the clear, they just need to appeal to the caring side of HMRC, appease the shafted creditors, and the child-maimer, and address the small matter of Chanrai and his secured claims on EVERYTHING.

 

Yep, it's fair sailing from here.

 

Chinny is fast becoming my favourite player in the pompey game... top man for securing all that debt against every single asset within the club. Fair play to him.

 

A pat on the back for old Gaddy too, seizing control of the car park and providing security for his debt... Fair play to the old gun runner for landlocking the skates and charging £6k a week to pompey for rent.

 

These two are secured, they will be paid 100% of the money they claim the are owed - so remove these two fine gentlemen from those fantasy equations above suggesting pompey will be sold for under ten million. £10m for the rights to the club crest of a heavily damaged brand and the rights to a heavy loss making entity - sounds insane... and then try and say the same but for £20m, or £30m!

 

 

Right, time for David, local photographer and concerned creditor of pfc CVA MKI to start lobbying the football league.

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Saint Lindford

Saint Lindford

Posted
Posted
Give Coventry 3 points on the last day of the season, just like Pompey did to West Brom the season we went down? That would be the ultimate retribution. We could wear Coventry shirts to the game, like the dirty skates who wore West Brom colours.

 

 

Absolutely NO chance. I want Saints to win and I would never wear the shirt of another team. It was quite pathetic to watch the skates in WBA shirts that day, kind of sums up their little club. I would hope no Saints fans stoop to their level, lets end the season on a high with another home win.

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hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Wasn't that in the Conference though?

 

What is your take on it Steve? Surely it is a complete scandal? It means if Markus had not come along, we could have offered 90p in the pound and then gone into admin a year later offering miles less and scrapping the original cva with no penalty.

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COMEONYOUREDS

COMEONYOUREDS

Posted
Posted
So then, now that cva1 is dead as confirmed by Birch, the £16.5m payable from said cva + 10.1m from CSI + a worst case scenario of £17m to Chinny + £3m to HMRC = £46.5m of which at most 20% will form cva2 = just over £9m.

 

Whether the creditors would agree to it is a moot point, but faced with the choice of 20% or the square root of **** all, I can see them going for it...

 

bore off skate

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Truckasaurus

Truckasaurus

Posted
Posted

Good afternoon my beauties, i heard a rumor at the Donny game that the Itchen stand (probably the fans in it rather than the stand itself) are making a big banner with the word "CHEATS" and an arrow pointing towards the portsmuff "fans".

 

Anyone confirm this ?

 

If not true it bloody well should be.

 

God bless HMRC

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
And did Scarborough "do a Pompey" and create a new company in the intervening period to muddy the waters....?

 

I genuinely think that is a red herring. The point in question is as to whether they have gained competitive advantage in doing so.

The Scarborough example, proves (And yes it was the Conference) that the footballing authorities recognise the issues / advantages changing the terms of the CVA provides.

 

If the Football league follow that through, it won't matter what company it was or wasn't.

 

So first big question will the the FL follow suit (Have pompey gained competitive advantage by ignoring the CVA)

 

Second question how many points (The only example is Scarborough)

 

Thrid question, this year or next.

 

I am with Rallyboy on this one, if they don't get punished for this (Go back 18 months and there's 200 posts on how the CVA would never be repaid) then they absolutely will have got away with it and Andronikou will be the busiest footballing adminsitrator in the World....any club in trouble willl want one of his CVA's.

 

 

I have little faith in the FL, but I just can't see how they can't punish them.

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stevegrant

stevegrant

Posted
Posted
What is your take on it Steve? Surely it is a complete scandal? It means if Markus had not come along, we could have offered 90p in the pound and then gone into admin a year later offering miles less and scrapping the original cva with no penalty.

Clearly, but what the Football League do about it is a complete mystery because they presumably never envisaged such a scenario. They've (so far) been unwilling to use their right to apply the spirit of their regulations rather than the letter, but it could be argued that failing to make a CVA payment should be deemed an "Insolvency Event", which would attract another statutory 10-point deduction.

 

Either way, the due date for that isn't until next week, so we'll have to wait and see.

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RedFear

RedFear

Posted
Posted
It means if Markus had not come along, we could have offered 90p in the pound and then gone into admin a year later offering miles less and scrapping the original cva with no penalty.

 

Exactly, as could/should the next club that goes into admin

 

Makes a complete mockery of the FL rules

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
Clearly, but what the Football League do about it is a complete mystery because they presumably never envisaged such a scenario. They've (so far) been unwilling to use their right to apply the spirit of their regulations rather than the letter, but it could be argued that failing to make a CVA payment should be deemed an "Insolvency Event", which would attract another statutory 10-point deduction.

 

Either way, the due date for that isn't until next week, so we'll have to wait and see.

 

Apologies for my scratched-record question but is the due date of the first payment "aspirational" or a contractual "obligation"?

 

My interpretation of the way AA worded the CVA is that the only 'obligatory' payment date is 17th June 2015

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
Apologies for my scratched-record question but is the due date of the first payment "aspirational" or a contractual "obligation"?

 

My interpretation of the way AA worded the CVA is that the only 'obligatory' payment date is 17th June 2015

 

It doesnt matter Trousers, it has now been formally declared as failed and confirmed by Baker Tilly

 

Comment From small creditor small creditor : ] Further to your story with Trevor Birch today, I can confirm creditors from last (2010) admin have had letters saying their previous debt now forms part of new CVA to be drawn up. Which for many means getting a percentage of a percentage!

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

So, live chat with the Pompey Supporters Trust on Friday then....

 

@pn_neil_allen: RT @markacheson: Date for your diaries: 3pm Friday March 30 live chat at http://t.co/yHM3ziwL with #Pompey Supporters Trust. @pompeytrust

 

Does this mean they've found enough rubles down the back of the sofa to table a bid for the club then or is this the first signs of a 'plan B' in the offing?

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
It doesnt matter Trousers, it has now been formally declared as failed and confirmed by Baker Tilly

 

Comment From small creditor small creditor : ] Further to your story with Trevor Birch today, I can confirm creditors from last (2010) admin have had letters saying their previous debt now forms part of new CVA to be drawn up. Which for many means getting a percentage of a percentage!

 

Ah, right. Cool. Missed that. Well, that makes it simple then. Additional points penalty it is then. Surely...

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Gruffalo

Gruffalo

Posted
Posted
Comment From small creditor: Further to your story with Trevor Birch today, I can confirm creditors from last (2010) admin have had letters saying their previous debt now forms part of new CVA to be drawn up.

 

Original debt, or CVA(1) reduced debt ?

 

If the latter (or the former), have the original creditors been given the opportunity to vote on their acceptance of material changes to CVA(1) ?

 

Or has Admin Andy's folding and re-booting of PFC companies basically voided any say that the original creditors should have had ?

 

What Happens If The Company’s Circumstances Change ?

 

The company is expected to honour its obligations under the Company Voluntary Arrangement. However, if the company’s circumstances materially change such that it can not honour its commitments, a further meeting of creditors could be convened at which the terms of the Arrangement could be modified. For a modification to be accepted a majority of 75% by value of those voting is required.

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mirrorcarp

mirrorcarp

Posted
Posted
Good afternoon my beauties, i heard a rumor at the Donny game that the Itchen stand (probably the fans in it rather than the stand itself) are making a big banner with the word "CHEATS" and an arrow pointing towards the portsmuff "fans".

 

Anyone confirm this ?

 

If not true it bloody well should be.

 

God bless HMRC

 

This should definately happen. Itchen corner would be best place for it.

 

Cant be that hard to do. Probably get confiscated though, health and safety and all that.

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EastleighSoulBoy

EastleighSoulBoy

Posted
Posted
Clearly, but what the Football League do about it is a complete mystery because they presumably never envisaged such a scenario. They've (so far) been unwilling to use their right to apply the spirit of their regulations rather than the letter, but it could be argued that failing to make a CVA payment should be deemed an "Insolvency Event", which would attract another statutory 10-point deduction.

 

Either way, the due date for that isn't until next week, so we'll have to wait and see.

 

Maybe, just maybe, the FL are keeping their powder dry? To see if they are relegated anyway (minus ten next season would be the ultimate nail) or survive (minus ten, or whatever to relegate them anyway) to probably ensure they are ironed out and folded? Both ways would, I believe, be enough to seal their date with destiny.

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Joesaint

Joesaint

Posted
Posted

Did Leeds get a 15 point penality for not agreeing a cva? have written to the football league not about the 15 points but just to say that I believe the if the skates suvive what message does it send out. Lets just gambe 100m, its ok we bought quality if all else fails and we can just write off the dept at no real disadvantage!

 

Skates are a disgrace to the game.

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pedg

pedg

Posted
Posted
Maybe, just maybe, the FL are keeping their powder dry? To see if they are relegated anyway (minus ten next season would be the ultimate nail) or survive (minus ten, or whatever to relegate them anyway) to probably ensure they are ironed out and folded? Both ways would, I believe, be enough to seal their date with destiny.

 

Fairly clear that the modern (post malwinnie (sp?)) FL will not make a decision unless they are forced to. They are probably hoping that pompey get relegated without them having to make a decision but with that not certain and the date of the CVA payment due in the near future its hard to see how they can avoid a decision? My guess is that they will try to pretend a problem does not exist for as long as they can and hope pompey are condemned by then anyway.

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Ohio Saint

Ohio Saint

Posted
Posted
Fairly clear that the modern (post malwinnie (sp?)) FL will not make a decision unless they are forced to. They are probably hoping that pompey get relegated without them having to make a decision but with that not certain and the date of the CVA payment due in the near future its hard to see how they can avoid a decision? My guess is that they will try to pretend a problem does not exist for as long as they can and hope pompey are condemned by then anyway.

 

They were not so generous with us. They made darn sure we would lose 10 points the next season if we went down without the deduction.

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Frank's cousin

Frank's cousin

Posted
Posted

Think the get out clause for the FL to do sweet FA (pun intended) is that the previous admin was not whilst they were under the jurisdiction of the FL, but rather th PL.... Wet,ball less feckers the lot of them- it's feckin disgrace and sets a very dangerous precedent for the game as a whole...watch the FL create anew rule to address this after Pompey escape any further punishment... Sickening

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SaintBobby

SaintBobby

Posted
Posted
Sickening reading. Shouldn't be surprised I guess. Just wish I could understand WHY the rules don't apply to this one specific club. It's really putting me off football, even with Saints sat top, the whole league system becomes a farce when they allow clubs to act like this.

 

So we're clear it's definitely no penalty for ditching the CVA then?? Absolutely bewildered by that one. I'd love to hear official reaction (and truthful reaction) from other clubs owners etc. Surely this is the green light for everyone to ditch their debt? Any club that can handle a 10 point penalty without severe consequences surely should do it??

 

As I've said before, it needs some clear rules, even if they come in too late to punish PFC. Also, is there anything to stop PFC doing the same thing for a third time? Ditch CVA1, it becomes part of CVA2...go through another season of spending, ditch CVA2, make it part of CVA 3. If you're allowed to do it twice without punishment, why not 3 times?

 

Just wish there were better teams down there to relegate them, but I think they'll stay up easily to be honest. Plenty of winnable games and a very expensive squad still sat there to do it. Shame an infinitely more honest club will go down in their place.

 

I'm not sure we are clear on that.

 

Isn't that precisely what's in issue?

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted

From the Saints Takeover Saga over on the main forum.

 

Alright, you got me. This is a minor part of what I heard. The main story is that there will be a bid for Pompey next week and I know exactly who will be making the bid. Not sure how true the rumour is about Saints, but think it is very credible, given the source. The Pompey bid is definite, though...
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hutch

hutch

Posted
Posted
Original debt, or CVA(1) reduced debt ?

 

If the latter (or the former), have the original creditors been given the opportunity to vote on their acceptance of material changes to CVA(1) ?

 

Or has Admin Andy's folding and re-booting of PFC companies basically voided any say that the original creditors should have had ?

As I see it, even if their full debt was to be reinstated, it would be a claim against Oldco now in liquidation, so not much joy to be had there.

 

They would seem to be creditors of Newco, but only for the amount which Newco contracted to pay to Oldco in the Sale & Purchase Agreement, which I guess is the original CVA amount.

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dronskisaint

dronskisaint

Posted
Posted

From the Saints Takeover Saga over on the main forum.

 

 

'Originally Posted by Guided Missile

Alright, you got me. This is a minor part of what I heard. The main story is that there will be a bid for Pompey next week and I know exactly who will be making the bid. Not sure how true the rumour is about Saints, but think it is very credible, given the source. The Pompey bid is definite, though...'

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

How credible is the monetary value of the bid though...a £1 bid would probably be enough to buy them but the baggage, the charges that are held, the amount needed to service the refurbished, refurbished CVA coupled with the inevitability of a further points deduction would render it a massively unattractive proposition. A few dozen pages back I commented that if they gave someone £30 million to take it on threy'd still be out of pocket...and for what?

 

A tainted brand, ramshackle stadium with no car park and a reviled as cheats club with a history going all the way back to 2012. I'm not sure how many certifiable billionaires there are in the world...and how many of them 'love' the skates!

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trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted

@bigadamsport: #pompey administrator Trevor Birch is a special guest on @BBCRadioSolent tomorrow morning from 9am - taking your questions.

 

So, Birch on the radio and the Pompey Supporters Trust holding a live web chat. Both tomorrow.

 

I'm no Inspector Clouseau but I would venture that something is afoot...

 

inspector_clouseau.jpg

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
@TonyHusbandBBC: RT @mattslaterbbc: Could it be a case of Peter "Same Old" Storrie at Portsmouth? http://t.co/RUBsSLA2 #pompey #bbcfootball #soccerex

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17545079

 

"There is a potential development scheme there and the club has already proven it can hold its own in the Premier League. There's no reason it can't do that

again

 

 

As much as Storrie is a hero amoungst Saints fan, he really is thick as fook

 

No peter, the club hasn't proven it can hold it's own in the prem. All that's been proven is that the club can't hold it's own in the prem, without blowing 130 million pounds of other peoples money.

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Sevvy

Sevvy

Posted
Posted
@bigadamsport: #pompey administrator Trevor Birch is a special guest on @BBCRadioSolent tomorrow morning from 9am - taking your questions.

 

So, Birch on the radio and the Pompey Supporters Trust holding a live web chat. Both tomorrow.

 

I'm no Inspector Clouseau but I would venture that something is afoot...

 

inspector_clouseau.jpg

 

Any body listen to what Trevor Birch said?

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Gemmel

Gemmel

Posted
Posted
@bigadamsport: #pompey administrator Trevor Birch is a special guest on @BBCRadioSolent tomorrow morning from 9am - taking your questions.

 

So, Birch on the radio and the Pompey Supporters Trust holding a live web chat. Both tomorrow.

 

I'm no Inspector Clouseau but I would venture that something is afoot...

 

 

Can't help but agree with you Trousers.

 

There are three things that have come up that didnt make any sense to me over the last week or so;

 

1) Yesteday, Birch said that the old CVA would potnetially go into a new CVA if there was one. The word potential suggests that he is not definately going for a new CVA. Also if he was going for a new CVA, where is the public notices to all creditors? I think they have to issue these 14 days as a minimum before a creditors meeting and then the work starts. I'm no expert but that whole process from start to finish takes about 2 - 3 months, which is past the time they can fund.

 

2) The news web chat was questioning why Birch wasn't prepared to sell season tickets to help fund the gap between end of this and the start of next season. The news couldnt give a reason, but seemed to confirm that season tickets would not be going on sale.

 

3) Stopping the Council buying the ground. This still strikes me as such a strange thing to do. Regardless if he had buyers in the wings, this was almost the perfect backdrop, in case anything fell through. Whatever the reason, this is significant.

 

Starting to get intresting again.......

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Amazing.

 

Not one of them been on here to explain to us how having Share Capital issued means that we are doomed

 

Not one of them come on here to tell us how wrong we were when we explained how the Liebherr financing had been planned out

 

Shame, I was looking forward to another lesson in economics to go with the "well rich people don't need budgets they just spend what they like" lesson of last autumn

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