Pompey Takeover Saga

[Gingeletiss]

I am not sure of my ground here but doesn't ADMIN effctively mean for the moment past debts are frozen and the club/company has to continue trading within its means. So for example the Tax man will receive funds due as and when?

 

 

'Tis the truth, also true, is that if he can't fund the running of the club, outside of the 'frozen debts', then he will have no choice but to liquidate the company. This is my understanding based on various sources, AA has to keep trimming, until the incoming outweigh the outgoings. I think there will be more going before long.

[exile on main street]

from today's Guardian, they reckon Storrie's for the chop

 

(apologies if already mentioned, it's a very long thread)

 

"Peter Storrie stays at Portsmouth with a salary of "less than £500,000". With money so tight it seems rather a charitable decision to retain the chief executive on such a salary.

 

After all Storrie was present throughout the chaotic period that has seen Pompey's bank accounts withdrawn, a transfer embargo imposed and four owners in the space of one season. Digger, however, hears tell that Storrie may yet have to justify his position to the administrator, Andrew Andronikou, anew, possibly as soon as today. That is because with Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs threatening to challenge Andronikou's appointment, an existing director had to be retained in case the challenge was upheld.

 

By law every company must have a nominated officer. Following the departures of the directors Mark Jacob and Tanya Robbins, Storrie was the only person left on the club's board. HMRC has now withdrawn its challenge – seemingly the thought of throwing taxpayers' money at an arcane legal argument that would not lead to any financial return has caused it to do so – but the taxman will no doubt have other questions when everyone heads back to court on Monday.

 

With Andronikou in a position to take sole control of Portsmouth, whether Storrie is present could be telling."

[tony13579]

Mr Andronikou told The News: 'What normally happens when a winding-up petition is in place is that bank accounts are frozen, then the company would normally file for a validation order to open the account.

 

'In this case instead of going through the normal process of a validation order the company decided to use a client's account with Fuglers. I'm duty- bound to investigate these transactions. We've got to investigate and review any company transactions.'

 

Asked why Fuglers transactions were being looked at, Mr Andronikou said: 'It's unexplained.'

 

'We're in the process now today of beginning our review of what has gone through that account (Fuglers).

 

'I have assigned two members of my staff to start reviewing transactions.'

 

He wouldn't reveal how much the amounts were for, but reports today suggested it was up to £1.5m.

 

Mr Jacob told The News this morning: 'The thing to do is speak to Fuglers and the club. I don't work for the club anymore.'

 

....AND...

 

Two of Pompey's merchandise stores have been closed by the administrators to cut costs.

The shutters remain down at the stores in Cascades shopping centre, Commercial Road, Portsmouth and Westbury Mall, Fareham.

 

All stock is due to be transferred to the Pompey Megastore at Rodney Road, Fratton – which was the only store to open yesterday following a day of redundancies at the club

Edited 12 March, 2010 by tony13579

[Saint_John]

Just a minor point, but there are 2 percentages for a CVA vote:-

 

"75% of unsecured creditors by value must approve a CVA. Remember this is 75% voting on the day. 50% of non-associated creditors by value must also vote in support."

http://www.fasimms.com/cva.html

 

When Gerald Krasner spoke on Radio Solent the other week he implied that the 2nd vote would be interesting vote. What he said was :-

 

"In the 2nd vote, anybody associated is excluded from voting and the argument at Poopey is just WHO ARE ASSOCIATED CREDITORS. And it may well be that they have difficulty here and this will have to be looked at getting the 50% majority.

Because if all the former owners who are owed money are deemed to be associates they will not be able to vote. And the HMRC and the other creditors could in fact reject the CVA."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p006my9y

 

 

I can see HMRC using Monday to sort out who is "Secured" and who is "Associated", as others have said it may be that the court will have to rule on the status of the son of Arms Dealer / Money Launder.

[Ken Tone]

Personally I just can't understand why the administrator hasn't sent back the loan players. Why is he sanctioning continuing to pay big wages to non-permanent employees? Surely they can't all have been signed on season-long deal with no cop-out clause ? Surely even pompey can't have been that stupid? .... Can they?

 

Reckon the Guardian reasoning is correct about Storrie. If he is still there in a few days time then the administrator will have proved he really is not independent IMO.

 

K.

[Matthew Le God]

Personally I just can't understand why the administrator hasn't sent back the loan players. Why is he sanctioning continuing to pay big wages to non-permanent employees? Surely they can't all have been signed on season-long deal with no cop-out clause ? Surely even pompey can't have been that stupid? .... Can they?

 

- Pompey won't be paying 100% of the wages for loan players.

- The loan players helped Pompey get to a Wembley semi final and bring in extra income that exceeds their wages.

- In the vain hope they don't get a points deduction the six loan players "could" play a significant part in them staying up and bringing in money.

[benjii]

So the rule is that you can get away with not paying taxes if HMRC consider the legal case to chase you down to be expensive and long-running.

 

Nice precedent!

 

Yes, as I stated above I find this quite unacceptable, something doesn't ring true to me.

 

No, not at all.

 

It's the law - if you are in administration you are protected from action from creditors like HMRC. They are apparently, validy in administration so there's not a lot HMRC can do about it.

 

Nothing to do with precedent or throwing in the towel.

[Ken Tone]

- Pompey won't be paying 100% of the wages for loan players.

- The loan players helped Pompey get to a Wembley semi final and bring in extra income that exceeds their wages.

- In the vain hope they don't get a points deduction the six loan players "could" play a significant part in them staying up and bringing in money.

 

All points with some validity but you're thinking like someone who wants to run a football club. The administrator's main job is to maximise the money he can get for the creditors, not to run a football club. He doesn't care whether they do well on the pitch, unless that makes it more likely he will get a buyer who will pay more to the creditors.

 

More specifically:

 

1. Who knows how much of the wages Pompey are playing? They don't have a good track record for 'prudence' do they? I would not be surprised if they were paying the lot. Some loans involve full wages plus a loan fee remember.

 

2. According to David James, the year they got to the cup final they lost money because the players' bounses were more than the extra income!

 

3. There is such a small hope of them staying up, that surely the admin can't really think it is worth paying out unnecessary money to make it very, very slightly less small?

 

Still, my logic says the loanees should have gone by now , and they haven't, so maybe you're more right than me.

 

K.

[Weston Saint]

Administrator explains plus Players looking to pay some of the training staff wages.

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Administrator-to-probe-Pompey-payments.6147409.jp

 

Jacob slams years of excess and says he never received any salary

 

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/frattonlatest/Jacob-slams-39years-of-excess39.6147856.jp

[Matthew Le God]

2. According to David James, the year they got to the cup final they lost money because the players' bounses were more than the extra income!

 

Almost all the big earners from the 2007/08 cup winning side have left. All those still at the club will have much smaller bonuses.

[benjii]

If a points penealty is empossed because the club in administration is percieved to have gained advantage over competitors, what is the FAs justification for letting the Blue Few rock all the way to Wembley in the Cup?

Someone I'm sure has asked the question on this thread someone, but you'll forgive me for not reading through 20,000+ posts

 

I've asked this several times!

 

It's time the FA grew a pair. No team in administration should be allowed to play. There is no other way of levelling the competitive advantage like there is in the league.

[Weston Saint]

If and when PFC get knocked out of FA cup semi will some of the loan players be released back to their clubs to save wages?.

[benjii]

It's security against future income. The parachute payments are the minimum that a PL club would receive, as staying up is worth more. I don't see it as any different to a mortgage lender lending you money based on your future income.

 

Any security over future cash will be created by a floating charge over the company. After administration, the football club will be owned by a different company so this different company will get the parachute payments anyway. It's a moot point IMO in terms of security and creditor's rights over it.

 

What it does do though, is form part of the consideration of the creditors when they're deciding whether to accept or not any offer made by a potential purchaser, as they will be aware that this revenue stream is coming in.

[Gingeletiss]

my_pfc_dream Posted on 11/03/2010 18:36

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says Chainrai

 

he is a great bloke and deserves a lot more than he is getting!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyone who believes this, is in my opinion, deluded. Why would he??.

[saintalan]

...The administrator's main job is to maximise the money he can get for the creditors, not to run a football club. He doesn't care whether they do well on the pitch, unless that makes it more likely he will get a buyer who will pay more to the creditors...

 

K.

 

Isn't this latter point akin to gambling, no different from me having a punt to who might win a match?

[Chez]

All points with some validity but you're thinking like someone who wants to run a football club. The administrator's main job is to maximise the money he can get for the creditors, not to run a football club. He doesn't care whether they do well on the pitch, unless that makes it more likely he will get a buyer who will pay more to the creditors.

 

More specifically:

 

1. Who knows how much of the wages Pompey are playing? They don't have a good track record for 'prudence' do they? I would not be surprised if they were paying the lot. Some loans involve full wages plus a loan fee remember.

 

2. According to David James, the year they got to the cup final they lost money because the players' bounses were more than the extra income!

 

3. There is such a small hope of them staying up, that surely the admin can't really think it is worth paying out unnecessary money to make it very, very slightly less small?

 

Still, my logic says the loanees should have gone by now , and they haven't, so maybe you're more right than me.

 

K.

 

can they put a side out without all the loans?

[benjii]

Is it me (yet again!!!) but since Gordon Brown mentioned Pompys plight, that the HRMC seem to have softened their stance...World cup bids coming up, politically sensitive. Another real longshot but Pompey seem to be given so much slack. I doubt any other business would have had this.

 

Oh, do stop it!

[rallyboy]

it's funny how none of us are happy about the way that they have cheated and got away with it but now the admin wheels are turning the new slate doesn't look very clean.

 

In the next 8 weeks the newly-trimmed wages will cost at least £6M? (And anyone who thinks they will get paid in May without new owners is deluded!)

 

The taxman wants a few million just to shut up and there are football debts due in this period as well.

Even with cup money the income will nowhere near cover these figures, let alone overheads, admin fees, and that's ignoring the rest of the debt that's currently frozen.

 

Just looking at these next two months in isolation, the figures still don't stack up, the only way they could continue would be through further Chanrai loans, an additional debt that would discourage new owners.

 

So nothing has changed in six months - they still need a cash rich buyer, and they need his investment to be flowing within four weeks.

 

Nice of the players to offer to help out some of those made redundant, pity they are only looking at those that wait on them at the training ground, a bit like getting your own butler to stay on while the rest of the former staff can go do one.

 

Birmingham City staff - 80, Pompey - 360 - what could go wrong?

Have they been managed by idiots or criminals?

[Sour Mash]

Oh, do stop it!

 

Very, very unlikely I know, but for some reason I think he's got a point.

[benjii]

Very, very unlikely I know, but for some reason I think he's got a point.

 

Gordon Brown personally intervened to stop HMRC pursuing a case that apparently has little merit anyway?

 

Ok.

 

Well you can have one of these: too then

[GenevaSaint]

If and when PFC get knocked out of FA cup semi will some of the loan players be released back to their clubs to save wages?.

 

Fairly sure this will happen, especially if the -9 has gone through by then as expected.

[Ken Tone]

 

Have they been managed by idiots or criminals?

 

Or both ?

[Sour Mash]

Gordon Brown personally intervened to stop HMRC pursuing a case that apparently has little merit anyway?

 

Ok.

 

Well you can have one of these: too then

 

Thanks! But, I still don't quite get how Pompey have seemingly wriggled free quite easily from what looked like a very tight position that the HMRC had them in. All that fuss from a couple of weeks ago when they were up in court, then this week HMRC seem to have dropped thier challenge too easily for me (I know they still want their money and there is still a lot more to happen), just thought they had the skates fairly well nailed!

[JackFrost]

Thanks! But, I still don't quite get how Pompey have seemingly wriggled free quite easily from what looked like a very tight position that the HMRC had them in. All that fuss from a couple of weeks ago when they were up in court, then this week HMRC seem to have dropped thier challenge too easily for me (I know they still want their money and there is still a lot more to happen), just thought they had the skates fairly well nailed!

 

They might still do.

 

depends what HMRC have up their sleeve Monday

[BigShadow]

Thanks! But, I still don't quite get how Pompey have seemingly wriggled free quite easily from what looked like a very tight position that the HMRC had them in. All that fuss from a couple of weeks ago when they were up in court, then this week HMRC seem to have dropped thier challenge too easily for me (I know they still want their money and there is still a lot more to happen), just thought they had the skates fairly well nailed!

 

Slippery buggggers those fishy folk - you think you got 'em, then they slide right through your hands.

[Chopper71]

I see the new chairman of the football league is a Leicester fan. Is he mates with Mandaric and if so will that stop him flinging penalties to the clubs associated with the tax dodging criminals formerly employed to Krap Nottarf? Can see it now, we can't give poopey a points deduction for their dodgy dealings cos that bloke runs my club so we better have a good look at them too.....:cool:

[saintds]

Pompey in "cleaning up it's image" shocker :shock:

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/5058586.Pompey_threaten_to_ban_famous_fan/

 

'spose it's a start

[View From The Top]

Thanks! But, I still don't quite get how Pompey have seemingly wriggled free quite easily from what looked like a very tight position that the HMRC had them in. All that fuss from a couple of weeks ago when they were up in court, then this week HMRC seem to have dropped thier challenge too easily for me (I know they still want their money and there is still a lot more to happen), just thought they had the skates fairly well nailed!

 

FFS it's really not hard to understand.

 

HMRC took them to court and tried to get them wound up.

 

The judge cut them so slack with certain clauses attached including an independent financial statement.

 

Statement clearly showed the club to be insolvent.

 

Secured creditor placed them into administration before they returned to court.

 

HMRC challenged the validity of the administration.

 

Administration was shown to be valid.

[Thedelldays]

they are going down no matter what happens..ffs

going down will ruin them even more

[badgerx16]

FFS it's really not hard to understand.

 

HMRC took them to court and tried to get them wound up.

 

The judge cut them so slack with certain clauses attached including an independent financial statement.

 

Statement clearly showed the club to be insolvent.

 

Secured creditor placed them into administration before they returned to court.

 

HMRC challenged the validity of the administration.

 

Administration was shown to be valid.

 

It's almost as if HMRC have set the whole thing up, using the threat of the WUO to force them into accepting they should have been in administration. Surely it's unusual for a company to go straight from trading to winding-up ?

[Doctoroncall]

they are going down no matter what happens..ffs

going down will ruin them even more

 

Indeed, they have started on a course that will take many years to overcome.

 

When did Leeds tumble from the Premiership?

[GenevaSaint]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/12/hsbc_data_loss/

 

The Revenue, along with German tax authorities, previously bought account information liberated from a private bank in Liechtenstein. That case led to debate about how far authorities should go in pursuit of tax dodgers. ®

 

A long way hopefully in Pompeys case ;-)

 

As it happens, I'm not particularly happy with their morals on this one, they're potentially going to purchase stolen data.

[derry]

An interesting thought for the Pompey contributors on here regarding who is the biggest club.

 

Nicola Cortese on tv has said that it is possible that Southampton will move from SMS to a bigger stadium.

[standy]

My bid has also raised no response. .. and I said I had £5 ti invest although I did ask for change

[rallyboy]

Pompey administrator Andrew Andronikou said the shops are among 'the visible cuts' he is making at the club.

 

He said: 'There will be changes across the board – ranging from the number of the club's retail shops to its obligations for the photocopy machines.'

 

was that a clue as to the identity of the leading consortium?

[Channon's Sideburns]

Pompey administrator Andrew Andronikou said the shops are among 'the visible cuts' he is making at the club.

 

He said: 'There will be changes across the board – ranging from the number of the club's retail shops to its obligations for the photocopy machines.'

 

was that a clue as to the identity of the leading consortium?

 

Don't know about the Photocopiers but I hear the shredders are burnt out....

 

Where's LifelongSkate when we need him?

[Joey-deacons-left-nut]

Pompey administrator Andrew Andronikou said the shops are among 'the visible cuts' he is making at the club.

 

He said: 'There will be changes across the board – ranging from the number of the club's retail shops to its obligations for the photocopy machines.'

 

was that a clue as to the identity of the leading consortium?

 

They probably rent them and have to pay each month for the amount of copying/printing done. Standard practice.

[Weston Saint]

Don't know about the Photocopiers but I hear the shredders are burnt out....

 

Where's LifelongSkate when we need him?

He is about and regularly reads this thread but even he will not poke his finger into pompey's poo.

 

There are limits you know

[JackFrost]

They probably rent them and have to pay each month for the amount of copying/printing done. Standard practice.

 

Then they really are screwed :wink:

[Micky]

If and when PFC get knocked out of FA cup semi will some of the loan players be released back to their clubs to save wages?.

 

Perhaps the terms of the loan contracts do not make it viable to return them - PFC maybe duty bound to pay them irrespective because the loan period would have been agreed between the two clubs. The lending club would have factored in the loss of the players service for a pre-determined time and could argue that they do not want the player returned until the end of the contract period.

 

Not sure of the legalities of this, just me 'thinking out loud', but may explain why the players have not already been returned.

[PES]

An interesting thought for the Pompey contributors on here regarding who is the biggest club.

 

Nicola Cortese on tv has said that it is possible that Southampton will move from SMS to a bigger stadium.

 

Yeah? Careful what you wish for. It'll be a groundshare near Fareham, You'll be sharing with Portsmouth.

[Sour Mash]

FFS it's really not hard to understand.

 

HMRC took them to court and tried to get them wound up.

 

The judge cut them so slack with certain clauses attached including an independent financial statement.

 

Statement clearly showed the club to be insolvent.

 

Secured creditor placed them into administration before they returned to court.

 

HMRC challenged the validity of the administration.

 

Administration was shown to be valid.

 

Why all the fuss when the HMRC took them back into court the other week? What was the point if the skates had the relevant pieces of paper anyway. I still think something doesn't add up. Yes, I know long-term they are f*****d, but I need to leave this thread alone until I know they are, as a minimum, languishing at the bottom of the championship on something approaching -25 points!

Edited 12 March, 2010 by Sour Mash

[Micky]

Yeah? Careful what you wish for. It'll be a groundshare near Fareham, You'll be sharing with Portsmouth.

 

Yeah - but on the other hand, once he has built us a nice new shiny one, do you know of anybody who would like to buy a relatively new, state of the art stadium per chance...?

[JackFrost]

Why all the fuss when the HMRC took them back into court the other week? What was the point if they the skates had the relevant pieces of paper anyway. I still think something doesn't add up. Yes, I know long-term they are f*****d, but I need to leave this thread alone until I know they are as a minimum languishing at the bottom of the championship on something approaching -25 points!

 

Something tells me HMRC have something up their sleeve for monday, and all this was a bit of a diversion.

 

Call me cynical but I think the SOA have provided HMRC with quite a bit of ammunition

[slickmick]

Something tells me HMRC have something up their sleeve for monday, and all this was a bit of a diversion.

 

Call me cynical but I think the SOA have provided HMRC with quite a bit of ammunition

 

Nothings happening Monday, there is no longer a court hearing for them.

[mack rill]

Yeah - but on the other hand, once he has built us a nice new shiny one, do you know of anybody who would like to buy a relatively new, state of the art stadium per chance...?

 

Er i think what Pes is hinting to is, The nice new stadium would be a permanent ground shear:smt058:smt118

[JackFrost]

Nothings happening Monday, there is no longer a court hearing for them.

 

"HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) will not pursue its dispute over the validity of the administration at Portsmouth football club, the BBC has learned.

A scheduled High Court hearing is still expected to go ahead on Monday.

But administrator Andrew Andronikou says an HMRC challenge to his appointment will now be dropped.

Mr Andronikou, of UHY Hacker Young, was appointed administrator last month, and cut 85 jobs at the club on Wednesday.

Portsmouth are facing a nine point deduction for entering administration."

 

(BBC website)

[Delmary]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=754664&sec=england&cc=5739

 

Storrie Teller resigns?

[View From The Top]

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=754664&sec=england&cc=5739

 

Storrie Teller resigns?

 

Seems so.

[Channon's Sideburns]

He is about and regularly reads this thread but even he will not poke his finger into pompey's poo.

 

There are limits you know

 

Good to hear ;-)