Pompey Takeover Saga

[solentstars]

I think starting this thread has been the most worthwhile achievement of my adult life on the internet!

So much pleasure watching and recounting what will be the biggest ever decline of a football club. I sense they are edging nearer and nearer the precipice and Steve Coterill's departure could be the trigger that really sets things in motion. He is not a bad manager and has done well to keep their noses above water thus far.

Sit back and observe.....there is a whiff of panic in the air down Fratton Way I reckon.

good post and i think you are spot on and i expect the decline to continue. it looks like a slow death being played out before our eyes.

[Tamesaint]

I think starting this thread has been the most worthwhile achievement of my adult life on the internet!

So much pleasure watching and recounting what will be the biggest ever decline of a football club. I sense they are edging nearer and nearer the precipice and Steve Coterill's departure could be the trigger that really sets things in motion. He is not a bad manager and has done well to keep their noses above water thus far.

Sit back and observe.....there is a whiff of panic in the air down Fratton Way I reckon.

 

Do you have any more information from your original source ??

[The Kraken]

So much pleasure watching and recounting what will be the biggest ever decline of a football club. I sense they are edging nearer and nearer the precipice and Steve Coterill's departure could be the trigger that really sets things in motion.

 

I think this is correct. The definition of insanity: doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

 

From what we can tell no lessons have been learnt from their spell in administration. Still spending significant sums on signing players (sums that the club clearly can't afford) and, by Corp's own admission, expecting the owners to prop up the funding shortfall. I would find it funny were it not so tragic and obvious, and had we not seen it all before so recently.

[solentstars]

I think this is correct. The definition of insanity: doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results.

 

From what we can tell no lessons have been learnt from their spell in administration. Still spending significant sums on signing players (sums that the club clearly can't afford) and, by Corp's own admission, expecting the owners to prop up the funding shortfall. I would find it funny were it not so tragic and obvious, and had we not seen it all before so recently.

looks like its being done deliberately maybe for other reasons and i expect we will find out once all the parachute payments have gone.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Just an observation...but I know we're talking different leagues, but Clot's and Jed Clampitt's policy of 'Quality over Quantity' is not a whole lot different to the Storytellers 'Quality and Quantity' theory of football management.

 

You would THINK that they would have learned the lessons...but seeing as there was limited punishment....

 

Still. The end result's the same. I bet Burley would be keen on Nottarf Krap.

 

Now...THAT would be fun.

[Badger]

.... I sense they are edging nearer and nearer the precipice and Steve Coterill's departure could be the trigger that really sets things in motion. He is not a bad manager and has done well to keep their noses above water thus far.Sit back and observe.....there is a whiff of panic in the air down Fratton Way I reckon.

 

I was amazed to see his name linked to Bristol City,and Forest jobs,as I would not have given him long at Nottarf, in fact I suspect skates see this as a potential Burley moment of getting money to see him go.

 

Had not previously considered that he might be all that is holding it 'together' for them.

[dubai_phil]

In unrelated news, I see the poopey marketing manager has moved to Flash Entertainments in Abu Dhabi. Well he must have, I just won 2 tickets to see Britney Spears in concert.

 

I wouldn't mind, but I didn't even ENTER the fecking competition, so it was obviously a skate.

 

And I met a very sad soul in a bar this evening, a Jock who was born in poopey watching the game against Spain... He was bigger than me so I didn't laugh too much at their result, mind you when I said Snottrill should be nailed on manager of the year it took me a while to get my pint back out my ass.

 

Ho hum, it was worth it

[JonnyLove]

In unrelated news, I see the poopey marketing manager has moved to Flash Entertainments in Abu Dhabi. Well he must have, I just won 2 tickets to see Britney Spears in concert.

 

I wouldn't mind, but I didn't even ENTER the fecking competition, so it was obviously a skate.

 

And I met a very sad soul in a bar this evening, a Jock who was born in poopey watching the game against Spain... He was bigger than me so I didn't laugh too much at their result, mind you when I said Snottrill should be nailed on manager of the year it took me a while to get my pint back out my ass.

 

Ho hum, it was worth it

 

Hoe is Britney's raunchy show going to work in Dubai? Thought that amount of flesh on show was not quite legal.

[pfc123]

So er, this thread is still going then?

[Dark Munster]

mmmm, I'm starting to wonder whether the figures stack up....

 

If I was forced to offer an opinion I think I might suggest that perhaps they don't.

 

So when did/will the russians realise, and what is their exit/crisis plan?

 

If I were cynical I would think that they are doing the old Chinny/Gunner Runner Jr. trick of racking up debt, with no intention of paying. When it's finally time to pay the piper, they'll trouser what's left and leave the cesspit of a club to the wolves. But reneging on the CVA and other payments, and would mean yet another administration, in which the FL would really have to show their teeth. I doubt Admin Andy will be able to come back to con Injustice Mann and others a second time. Being dumped into the Blue Square would be the best the few could pray for, liquidation being more likely.

 

But I am being unfair. Our friendly, cuddly Roman, and his adorable sidekick Vlad, would never be that horrible to the club they have fallen in love with.

[Dark Munster]

So er, this thread is still going then?

 

Oh yes, sadly for you there is plenty of life left in this old dog.

 

Which is more than can be said for Cheats FC.

[Matthew Le God]

So er, this thread is still going then?

 

They are getting desperate for cash again...

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Pompey-v-Doncaster-Ticket-Offer-2653.aspx

 

Even more desperation for cash, due to crowds of 12,000 at Fratton Park...?

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Half-Price-Pompey-Tops-2659.aspx

Edited 12 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Tamesaint]

So er, this thread is still going then?

 

No. You have just imagined that you have read the last few hundred pages.

 

What a thick, stupid skate.

[Danish Saint]

Even more desperation for cash, due to crowds of 12,000 at Fratton Park...?

 

http://www.portsmouthfc.co.uk/LatestNews/news/Half-Price-Pompey-Tops-2659.aspx

 

Get them while you can! Collect possibly the last P*mp*y shirt, they may not be here next season!

Could have some historical value in about....oh..... 2000 years.

[tony13579]

Away shirts half price... cant see many of those being sold....

[sidthesquid]

Away shirts half price... cant see many of those being sold....

 

What about that vast army of dedicated fans prepared to travel anywhere in the country to support their team............ Oh, I see, you have a point

[rallyboy]

knocking out away shirts half price is standard business practice.

In May!

 

With that and the ticket deals, a cynical man might suggest it could indicate a cashflow problem.

But I'm sure it's just a reward for the hardcore support from the cash rich owners.

[suewhistle]

No. You have just imagined that you have read the last few hundred pages.

 

What a thick, stupid skate.

 

That's not nice. Mack has actually no illusions about the situation and has a very good line in snappy irony and black humour: the complete opposite of Corpse, in fact.

[Danish Saint]

All this selling out could come back to bite them in the arse. When Admin Andy comes back to value the carcass, there'll be less to over-valuate.

[saintjay77]

That's not nice. Mack has actually no illusions about the situation and has a very good line in snappy irony and black humour: the complete opposite of Corpse, in fact.

 

Wasnt his reply to pfc123? I thought it fit quite well

[Corporate Ho]

Too much guess work from a serial bull****ter!

 

This thread isnt about our magnificent club, but thankyou for pointing out that the Russian mafia have spent more than Saints on transfers this year! Who do you think is getting better value for money from player investment so far? Clotters sure is a shrewd businessman, PMSL!

 

You didnt turn a profit on your players, as you ever payed for them in the first place. The only thing that did get paid was Harrys 10% commission and Storries 5%, oh and Pini Zahivis £3m! The debt rolling into hundreds of millions indicates you were not turning a profit in any aspect of your money laundering operation.

 

Too much guess work? ROTFL. That's coming from the king of supposition. It wasn't about value for money, it was a reply to a post saying CSI had spent "naff all" and I pointed out they'd spent more this close season than you had. As for us not paying for players in teh first place - why did their clubs let us sign them then? Was it giveaway day at Chelsea and Arsenal when we signed Johnson and Diarra? You were stupid enough to say we didn't make a profit on those players because we owed money to the original clubs when we sold them. I pointed out that at cost prices of £4m & £5m respectively and selling prices of £18m and £19m I think we probably did make a profit. Typically, you posted an absolute crock of **** and made yourself look stupid. Again.

 

Ah Diarra where have I heard than name recently, Ah I rememberOh wait... its gets better.. apparently the investigation is not only over tax fraud but ... our old favourite... "Money Laundering"

 

I looked at the reports. Are Pompey implicated in any way because they're not mentioned once in any of the reports on the web.

 

In reply to Mr Ho's posting re Saints financial position.

First of all I am glowing with pride that with a relatively modest outlay £1.8m for Fox and £750k for Cork we are currently well placed ahead of a rival club who appears to have spent more.

Secondly we reportedly have £12-£14m in the bin, from player sales, ready to be invested in squad improvement.

Quite apart from the asset value of St Mary's, the Training ground

 

1. The money for Fox and Cork is just what you've spent this season. Let's not forget the amount you spunked to get out of L1 that the Liebherr's will probably want back

2. is the money from Chamberlain earmarked for squad improvements or to reduce some of the £20m odd debt that was reported in your accounts? You don't know. None of you do

3. You only own half of your training ground and lease the other half. i would suggest St Mary's isn't worth much, probably no more than Fratton park. It has no value other than as a football stadium or for the land it's on.

 

I suspect they were funded by a large saving on something....oh yes, partly the money that should have been spent on the CVA, and partly the money the PL parachuted into the club to keep it afloat when you 'tards were insolvent. Apart from tarting up the toilets, those Ruskies haven't looked that interested in their latest investment.

 

1. I thought you all said we'd spent all the parachuute payments. Are you changing your minds now?

2. As I pointed out, they spent more than your owners this close season so how are they "not looking interested"?

 

Yes, the Liebherrs I'm sure do want us to become self-sufficient. Which is why the £12M received for Alex Chamberlain will go a very long way to making this year's balance sheet look rather more healthy.

 

In fact, if the worst case scenario were to happen and the Liebherrs left, not only would be left with a club with minimal debt but we would also have our tried, tested and renowned academy. The Academy runs at an estimated £1M per year. Notable departures in recent years have netted the club significant sums, including:

 

Alex Chamberlain: £12M (reportedly up to £15M)

Theo Walcott: £9.1M (downgraded from original fee of up to £12M)

Gareth Bale: £7M (downgraded from original fee of up to £10M)

Wayne Bridge: £7M

Chris Baird: £3M

Andrew Surman: £1.2M

David McGoldrick: £1M

Leon Best: £650K

Dexter Blackstock: £500K

Nathan Dyer: £400K

 

So just those players alone have yielded over £40M in incoming transfer fees in the past 8 years; that's £5M per year. Take off say £10M for 8 years of the academy running, and its roughly £4M per year in profit from the academy. Which, at this level of football, goes a massively long way to helping the club run on an even keel.

 

1. If the Liebherr's leave do you think they'll just walk away or will they want the £20m or whatever they've spent on you back?

2. You've produced some decent players through your academy. But can I just point out that over the last four years we've also pulled in £11m for O'Neil, Begovic and Wilson so we're averaging almost £3m a year from our academy sales. Not bad when you consider most on here keep telling me we don't have one

 

Just an observation...but I know we're talking different leagues' date=' but Clot's and Jed Clampitt's policy of 'Quality over Quantity' is not a whole lot different to the Storytellers 'Quality and Quantity' theory[/quote']

 

Yes, I can see how quality over quantity and quality and quantity are similar concepts. PMSL

 

That's not nice. Mack has actually no illusions about the situation and has a very good line in snappy irony and black humour: the complete opposite of Corpse, in fact.

 

As opposed to you lot who have such a great sense of humour about Saints that whenever I point out anything might be even less than 100% at St Mary's there's a lack of humour shown that would shame Morrissey

[saint si]

But can I just point out that over the last four years we've also pulled in £11m for O'Neil, Begovic and Wilson so we're averaging almost £3m a year from our academy sales. Not bad when you consider most on here keep telling me we don't have one

 

Wilson was at Man United till he was 17 and Begovic joined you at 16.

[pedg]

I looked at the reports. Are Pompey implicated in any way because they're not mentioned once in any of the reports on the web.

 

Pardon?! Can I refer you to the section of copy from the post you are replying to:

 

Real Madrid's France international Lassana Diarra is facing charges relating to a tax fraud probe by police in Le Havre, the French regional paper Paris-Normandie reported on Friday.

The 26-year-old defender has been placed under official judicial investigation, added the paper.

Football agent John Williams has also been targeted in the affair, notably for his role in Diarra's 20 million euro (£18.9 million) transfer from Portsmouth to Real Madrid in January 2009.

 

To help you with your obviously failing eyesight I have highlighted the word you are looking for!

[Crazy Diamond]

Speaking of Marc Wilson, I fear for the future of this 'academy' the Skates apparently have. Andy Awford (aka Andy Awful) once said Wilson would be playing for a Champions League team within about two or three years of his move to Stoke. An incredibly stupid claim to make given Wilson is a perfectly average player, especially from a bloke who is meant to have an eye for talent.

 

I say 'fear', I couldn't actually give a toss.

[holepuncture]

I think starting this thread has been the most worthwhile achievement of my adult life on the internet!

So much pleasure watching and recounting what will be the biggest ever decline of a football club. I sense they are edging nearer and nearer the precipice and Steve Coterill's departure could be the trigger that really sets things in motion. He is not a bad manager and has done well to keep their noses above water thus far.

Sit back and observe.....there is a whiff of panic in the air down Fratton Way I reckon.

 

 

So er, this thread is still going then?

 

Thanks for the update Fitz...

 

PFC keeps bleating that 'its over', 'nothings going to happen' and 'get over it' but he couldnt be further from the truth...

 

The russian eagles are circling and your formidable leader is trying to escape, so much so he couldnt care less if the BBC confirm he is sitting interviews with a league rival... i guess he knows he got in way too deep blagging money out of the russian mafia, and those concrete boots are never far away.

 

you simply do not cheat the taxman, everyone knows that, its the unwritten rule and has been in place since the days of Capone... the skates will get there comeuppance, HMRC are deeply hurt by the fruad and deciet that led to the UK being denied revenues up to £37m, a staggering amount even in todays money.

 

I agree with Fitzhugh, this will be the biggest decline of a football club in sporting history, a club with hundreds and hundrewds and hundreds of millions flowing through it for years, yet nobody questioned why they dont have toilets in the stadium.

 

Right now, the CVA payments are a huge threat to the future and a fall out on this point could see them at moneyfields before the 2012 season begins... because if they dare miss the first CVA payment, HMRC will be down at Nottarf with a liquidation order before they can say 'TBH'.

 

mafias, crime syndicates, money launderettes, loan sharks, fake shieks... they aint gonna be interested in paying a legacy debt such as a CVA... the Russian mafia cant even be bothered to cover the childrens cancer charity debt...

 

I also agree with Fitzhugh that clooterills departure could be the cataylst that starts the rapid, painful decline to the non-leagues... although we all laugh and mock at his big cry baby personality he is probably the lynchpin keeping the suspiciously highestly assembled team in the division together... even if the clubs he is pimping himself to dont offer him a job and he stays at the skates, his public display of wanting out could crush whatever remote team spirit the most expensive XI in the league had...

 

Its going to happen and it will be for the greater good of the world.

 

So this magnificent thread is very much alive, the troops are rallying on here and we can smell the desperation in the air, maybe its time for the blue few to wake up and smell the russian standard vodka - these owners wont even bother to joke about the mess they left you in, you are nothing to these types of people... what is bemusing to read is the CSI facebook pages, the deluded few really cant see what is going on, they are far too busy sucking off roman and vlad for getting some hot water in and signing huskelepp... fools

 

so pull yourself together contributors, stop letting the Ho spin you around in circles and get ready for the next chapter in the wonderful story. The taxman is in court and the russians are gonna turn nasty... the skates have lost every battle so far and they are going to lose the war... Pompey is going down with no money in the bank

 

[The Kraken]

1. If the Liebherr's leave do you think they'll just walk away or will they want the £20m or whatever they've spent on you back?

2. You've produced some decent players through your academy. But can I just point out that over the last four years we've also pulled in £11m for O'Neil, Begovic and Wilson so we're averaging almost £3m a year from our academy sales. Not bad when you consider most on here keep telling me we don't have one.

 

1. Who really knows? I assume the £20M you refer to is £13M purchase price and £7M reported losses to date? As I referred to in my original post, the Chamberlain sale has probably evened us up a good deal on profit and loss. And I doubt the family would just walk away from the club without looking for a realistic sale price, no; indeed, who would? I don't think it's too much to assume that, right now, our sale price would probably be in excess of £13M (given all our assets, which have no mortgages attached to them). So they'd be pretty sure to get the original purchase price back, at the very least. But I'm slightly confused to what you mean; the money paid to purchase us came from Markus Liebherr himself, and ownership has transferred to his family since his death. I can't think of a good reason why the family would look to recoup that original £13M directly from the club itself, given that (a) they didn't pay it and (b) it was not paid as a loan to the club but to the administrator to purchase the club outright. But I guess it's possible (however unlikely), unless I'm completely missing the gist of what you're trying to suggest, it seems you're suggesting SFC owe the Liebherr estate £20M?

 

2. I don't think my point was to highlight the differences between our two club's youth setups (although I don't think it's arrogant or condescending to suggest that our academy model is one which you and probably many other clubs would aspire to). It was more intended to highlight the various other revenue streams that we have available as a club aside from standard ticket prices, so including the corporate hospitality etc, which are a very necessary resource in this day and age. And even more so with the new financial control systems coming into play. Not having that, and despite your recent sales the lack of a reputed scholar's academy, does put your club at a sincere disadvantage. You only have to look how one of your own, Alex Chamberlain, came to us as your setup was considered far inferior.

Edited 12 October, 2011 by The Kraken

[saint si]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15275218.stm

 

Interesting...

[Tamesaint]

That's not nice. Mack has actually no illusions about the situation and has a very good line in snappy irony and black humour: the complete opposite of Corpse, in fact.

 

I agree with what you say about Mack (and Corpse). My response was to pfc 123

[JackFrost]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15275218.stm

 

Interesting...

 

FIFA don't take kindly to government interference.

 

They'e suspended international teams from competing in competitions before

[Gingeletiss]

FIFA don't take kindly to government interference.

 

They'e suspended international teams from competing in competitions before

 

No great loss imo, saves us the embaresment!

[Torres]

2. You've produced some decent players through your academy. But can I just point out that over the last four years we've also pulled in £11m for O'Neil, Begovic and Wilson so we're averaging almost £3m a year from our academy sales. Not bad when you consider most on here keep telling me we don't have one

 

PMSL. £11m? Did you balls! O'Neill was up to £5m. Begovic up to £3.25m, minus the £1m you have to pay Spurs for the privilege of selling his to Stoke (LOL). Wilson (who doesn't even count as you signed him when he was 17 - what kind of Academy is that?) went for £3.75m plus Lawrence plus Kitson, did he?

 

 

Comedy Gold.

 

[saintjay77]

1. Who really knows? I assume the £20M you refer to is £13M purchase price and £7M reported losses to date? As I referred to in my original post, the Chamberlain sale has probably evened us up a good deal on profit and loss. And I doubt the family would just walk away from the club without looking for a realistic sale price, no; indeed, who would? I don't think it's too much to assume that, right now, our sale price would probably be in excess of £13M (given all our assets, which have no mortgages attached to them). So they'd be pretty sure to get the original purchase price back, at the very least. But I'm slightly confused to what you mean; the money paid to purchase us came from Markus Liebherr himself, and ownership has transferred to his family since his death. I can't think of a good reason why the family would look to recoup that original £13M directly from the club itself, given that (a) they didn't pay it and (b) it was not paid as a loan to the club but to the administrator to purchase the club outright. But I guess it's possible (however unlikely), unless I'm completely missing the gist of what you're trying to suggest, it seems you're suggesting SFC owe the Liebherr estate £20M?

 

2. I don't think my point was to highlight the differences between our two club's youth setups (although I don't think it's arrogant or condescending to suggest that our academy model is one which you and probably many other clubs would aspire to). It was more intended to highlight the various other revenue streams that we have available as a club aside from standard ticket prices, so including the corporate hospitality etc, which are a very necessary resource in this day and age. And even more so with the new financial control systems coming into play. Not having that, and despite your recent sales the lack of a reputed scholar's academy, does put your club at a sincere disadvantage. You only have to look how one of your own, Alex Chamberlain, came to us as your setup was considered far inferior.

 

I have been told that Markus loaned the club £20 mil after purchace which is what funded us re-building the team. It was mentioned that by loaning the club the money there were certain tax advantages and so on and that there are ways to later wright off the loan but unfortunatly we lost Markus before we could find out if that route would be taken. How that now works out with his family I dont know but I think thats the money Corpse is refering too.

 

If I had the kind of money that the family had and was left with a business that is doing well and growing rapidly within touching distance of the prem riches I dont think I would be too concerned about the loan that was initially setup to set the wheels in motion. If I were to want it back I would be looking at taking it when the business is maximising proffits and self sufficiant. But I am lucky to have 20 quid in the bank so what do I know?

 

Anyone buying a struggling business will be doing so believing that they can turn it around. Any sensible business person will only buy a struggling business that they know that they can turn around. Money will only be of no object if the proffits will definately exceed the outlay. That might give an indication on where the 2 clubs owners see the businesses thay have bought. 1 has a large investment and plans that would require much more investment, the other is still on a bare bones squad and can look forward to hot water in the lady's lavs and a new clock..

 

This thread has much more legs than the odd skate might think.

[suewhistle]

Wasnt his reply to pfc123? I thought it fit quite well

 

My apologies to Tame! You are right!

[stevegrant]

I have been told that Markus loaned the club £20 mil after purchace which is what funded us re-building the team.

Not strictly true. That £20m also covered the settlement of the mortgage and overdraft with Aviva and Barclays respectively.

 

The "purchase" at the time was dressed up as a £13m deal, but every single penny of that went into the debt settlement.

[rallyboy]

would you buy the top of the range, low mileage, one owner Audi that could really do with a new parcel shelf,

OR

the rusting 1975 insurance write-off cut-and-shut Trabant that has a terminal engine problem, four wheel clamps attached, has already been involved in two fatals, has outstanding parking tickets and comes with a list of dodgy former keepers that looks like a court listing?

 

 

 

Whatever the Liebherr family decide to do in the future they currently have a really attractive asset - a progressive business with good facilities, great footballing potential, and in footballing terms it is debt-free - a rare and sought after beast.

It ticks every box and would generate a very good price on the open market.

And before Ho starts on debt, I'm not saying we shouldn't keep an eye on outgoings, but money lent by the owner to a valuable business is not debt.

However, lending money into a business with no structure or chance of repaying just so you can take control of it and usher it through insolvency using your pet administrator as a paid puppet is called loan sharking.

 

So no, I'm not worried about the 'debt' created by the sensibly-planned and successful rebuild required during our exit from administration.

[stevegrant]

Also, seems as though Cotterill's been offered the job at Nottingham Forest.

 

I'm not sure whether I'd want him to go or not. With the players at his disposal, they seem to have underachieved (although injuries and suspensions have played a key role, but I'd argue that's his own fault for the "quality over quantity" approach he took a year ago), and I guess it's a bit of a lottery whether the next mug to fill the hotseat will get more out of them or not.

 

I do wonder who would take on the role right now though...

 

Perhaps an emotional homecoming for this genius:

[Corporate Ho]

1. Who really knows? I assume the £20M you refer to is £13M purchase price and £7M reported losses to date? As I referred to in my original post, the Chamberlain sale has probably evened us up a good deal on profit and loss. And I doubt the family would just walk away from the club without looking for a realistic sale price, no; indeed, who would? I don't think it's too much to assume that, right now, our sale price would probably be in excess of £13M (given all our assets, which have no mortgages attached to them). So they'd be pretty sure to get the original purchase price back, at the very least. But I'm slightly confused to what you mean; the money paid to purchase us came from Markus Liebherr himself, and ownership has transferred to his family since his death. I can't think of a good reason why the family would look to recoup that original £13M directly from the club itself, given that (a) they didn't pay it and (b) it was not paid as a loan to the club but to the administrator to purchase the club outright. But I guess it's possible (however unlikely), unless I'm completely missing the gist of what you're trying to suggest, it seems you're suggesting SFC owe the Liebherr estate £20M?

 

Thanks for a decent response Kraken, always happy to debate sensibly. My post was based on the figures in your published accounts which said you owed just over £7m to creditors in the next year and £14.68m after more than one year. That may be to pay back the money Liebherr put in that Granty mentiones below. However, unless the Liebherr family want to make a gift of that money (and of course they could turn those loand into equity but you don't know if they will) that's £20m+ in loans plus the £13m purchase price they might well be looking to recoup. The accounts also said you had a wage bill of £12.2m in L1 which has undoubtedly gone up since then and whilst I agree you got a good deal for Chamberlain you made losses of almost £8m for the accounting year and it's hard to see how you made a profit last year so the Chamberlain money might just go some way to paying those losses off. All speculation of course but at least there's some evidence in the accounts to show where that speculation came from

 

PMSL. £11m? Did you balls! O'Neill was up to £5m. Begovic up to £3.25m, minus the £1m you have to pay Spurs for the privilege of selling his to Stoke (LOL). Wilson (who doesn't even count as you signed him when he was 17 - what kind of Academy is that?) went for £3.75m plus Lawrence plus Kitson, did he?

 

Comedy Gold.

 

What kind of academy signs players that age you ask? Yours, actually. Based on the players someone quoted above as making money from your academy set up, Baird joined you aged 16, McGoldrick and Blackstock were both 17 and Leon Best was 18. Thanks for teeing me up Torro.

 

As for the fees, O'neil went for £5m http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/sep/15/newsstory.middlesbrough

 

Begovic went for £3.25m http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/stoke-sign-begovic-for-pound325m-1886109.html

 

And as for Wilson, we'd already turned down straight cash bids of £3m for him. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/aug/23/west-brom-marc-wilson

 

We got £3m plus the two players.

 

money lent by the owner to a valuable business is not debt.

 

Err, I think you'll find that it is. PMSL

[gaz]

You'll need adult nappies, the rate you pee yourself Mrs Ho.

[View From The Top]

Err, I think you'll find that it is. PMSL

 

Only if they don't turn it into equity bit, IIRC correctly, that that couldn't be done at once for SFC for UK business law reasons.

Edited 12 October, 2011 by View From The Top

[View From The Top]

Ask any football fan in the country about academies and ours will be rated right up there and they will ask who is the next one coming through. The skates won't even get a mention.

 

That's all that anyone needs to know.

[bridge too far]

Only if they don't turn it into equity.

 

It's called a Director's Loan and is a valid instrument.

[Matthew Le God]

Err, I think you'll find that it is. PMSL

 

Can you show me where in the accounts it says that money has to be paid back and when by?

 

Can you show me where in the accounts it states that money won't be turned into equity?

Edited 12 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[stevegrant]

Can you show me where in the accounts it says that money has to be paid back and when by?

You'll find it conveniently listed under "amounts falling due within one year" and "amounts falling due within more than one year".

 

Can you show me where in the accounts it states that money won't be turned into equity?

It won't. Similarly, it won't say that the money WILL be turned into equity either.

 

Taking the prudent approach, which you would think that we would be looking to take more often than not given the way we continue to gallop around these pages on that moral high horse, it's a loan that will have to be repaid at some point until such time as it is converted to equity.

 

If you're going to try and play Accounting Top Trumps, at least make it look like you have some sort of non-blinkered view of the situation.

[Matthew Le God]

You'll find it conveniently listed under "amounts falling due within one year" and "amounts falling due within more than one year".

 

 

It won't. Similarly, it won't say that the money WILL be turned into equity either.

 

Taking the prudent approach, which you would think that we would be looking to take more often than not given the way we continue to gallop around these pages on that moral high horse, it's a loan that will have to be repaid at some point until such time as it is converted to equity.

 

If you're going to try and play Accounting Top Trumps, at least make it look like you have some sort of non-blinkered view of the situation.

 

Did I say what will happen to the "loan"? No, I didn't either way. I was just pointing out to Corp Ho that he doesn't either.

 

The Liebherr's recoup their money with the sale value of the club, even today in the Championship it is worth more than they paid for it, should they get to the Premier League it will be worth a lot more than they paid for it.

Edited 12 October, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Gemmel]

1. If the Liebherr's leave do you think they'll just walk away or will they want the £20m or whatever they've spent on you back?

 

And there you go. The difference between a viable business aquisition and a roll of the dice gamble. The Saints takeover vs the 4 pompey ones.

 

Yes of course they will want their money back and as of now, they will get a lot more. It is perhaps the reasons, that we were a viable (Albeit calculated risk) proposition, that would lead people to question the motives of those who have taken over pompey (Given their public declaration they are in it to make money)

 

 

For 13 million pound you could buy a league one club, with a 10 point deduction, starting life in League one, with a limited squad. On the plus side, all debt was erased (Through the 13 million) there was fantastic infrastucture (Stadium, Training Ground, Property & Land) and the attendances were positive given the clubs position.

 

For 17 million you could buy a Championship side, with 8 players, no training ground, an uncertified dump of an arena, 25 million pounds worth of debt (Over and above the 17 million paid) Arrendances that were falling quicker than a hoars knickers and subject to ongoing court cases, forensic accounting investigations and enquirys from the insolvency commission and for the cherry on top, the car park and key land is owned by someone else and a previous promise of all money owed under 2k to be repiad in full, has fallen on the russians lap. On the plus there is the some parchute money left and chinny came good on the 20 tv's.

 

Now of course it helps if you have the money upfront, but so far the Liebhers have spent 24 million (As of last years accounts) to be where we are now. When you think that the Chamberlain deal (When fully paid) up is more than they paid for the club in the first place, then you can start to see the value of their investment. Even is they started sellling off players, the squad itself is worth 20 million, plus the land, Plus the houses, Plus the stadium, plus the training ground etc etc. I would say they are conservatively 20 million quid up so far (Probably a little bit more) plus they have a real chance of more than doubling that with their current squad, plus a couple more as loans or January.

 

 

I said of course it helps if you have the money upfront and based on chinnys squealing, the russians didn't like that idea, so have their spread purchase over installments. So they are now left with a club, with a small squad, 25 million ponds of debt, hovering above relegation, attendances still falling, firesales on merchandise and ticket offers, ongoing court cases, forensic accounting investigations and enquirys from the insolvency commission, plus, the car park and key land is still owned by someone else and likely they have to shell out on chinnys promise. With the money thrown in so far, they are bleeding money already and the chance of rolling that magic double six, that would get them to the prem money is nothing more than a pipe dream.

 

Go ahead corpy - which one would you want

[gaz]

So come on then, what are the chances that Clot won't be at the helm for Barnsley? Some of the Few are saying his position is untenable by talking to Forest (and Brizzle if you believe some), throwing the names Zola and Dave Jones around as replacements...

 

The bookies have Clots certain to go.

 

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/nottm-forest-specials/next-permanent-manager

Edited 12 October, 2011 by gaz

[COMEONYOUREDS]

Too much guess work? ROTFL. That's coming from the king of supposition. It wasn't about value for money, it was a reply to a post saying CSI had spent "naff all" and I pointed out they'd spent more this close season than you had. As for us not paying for players in teh first place - why did their clubs let us sign them then? Was it giveaway day at Chelsea and Arsenal when we signed Johnson and Diarra? You were stupid enough to say we didn't make a profit on those players because we owed money to the original clubs when we sold them. I pointed out that at cost prices of £4m & £5m respectively and selling prices of £18m and £19m I think we probably did make a profit. Typically, you posted an absolute crock of **** and made yourself look stupid. Again.

 

 

 

I looked at the reports. Are Pompey implicated in any way because they're not mentioned once in any of the reports on the web.

 

 

 

1. The money for Fox and Cork is just what you've spent this season. Let's not forget the amount you spunked to get out of L1 that the Liebherr's will probably want back

2. is the money from Chamberlain earmarked for squad improvements or to reduce some of the £20m odd debt that was reported in your accounts? You don't know. None of you do

3. You only own half of your training ground and lease the other half. i would suggest St Mary's isn't worth much, probably no more than Fratton park. It has no value other than as a football stadium or for the land it's on.

 

 

 

1. I thought you all said we'd spent all the parachuute payments. Are you changing your minds now?

2. As I pointed out, they spent more than your owners this close season so how are they "not looking interested"?

 

 

 

1. If the Liebherr's leave do you think they'll just walk away or will they want the £20m or whatever they've spent on you back?

2. You've produced some decent players through your academy. But can I just point out that over the last four years we've also pulled in £11m for O'Neil, Begovic and Wilson so we're averaging almost £3m a year from our academy sales. Not bad when you consider most on here keep telling me we don't have one

 

 

 

Yes, I can see how quality over quantity and quality and quantity are similar concepts. PMSL

 

 

 

As opposed to you lot who have such a great sense of humour about Saints that whenever I point out anything might be even less than 100% at St Mary's there's a lack of humour shown that would shame Morrissey

 

You are full of ****. when was £20 million loss reported. Give up and **** off you smelly ****

[Dark Munster]

^^^

Great summary Gemmel. If we're lucky it'll keep Corpse quiet for 5 minutes.

 

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15275218.stm

 

Interesting...

 

The proposed licensing system is intended to build on the two leagues' recent efforts to put in more safeguards against financial mismanagement, asset-stripping owners, tax avoidance and other related sins.

 

They've just described the DFCSBs to a tee.

 

Congratulations Cheats FC, you are pioneers! The first PL club to go into administration, and now the leading example of all that's corrupt in football, and the catalyst for the government's desperate move to clean up the game.

 

The few must be so proud.

[saintjay77]

Not strictly true. That £20m also covered the settlement of the mortgage and overdraft with Aviva and Barclays respectively.

 

The "purchase" at the time was dressed up as a £13m deal, but every single penny of that went into the debt settlement.

 

Ah fair enough. I knew the £20m went in as a loan but presumed it was after the purchase. So they basically bought the club for naff all then loaned the club the money and made a deal with the creditors to wipe the debt's?

 

I didn't check on how much we spent rebuilding the team but I guess it was still out of the initial loan as ther has been no mention of any extra loans or payments into the club. I wonder how the training ground developments are being funded?

[spyinthesky]

One point that Ho made requires clarification with me ie the training ground

As far as I was aware the original site was purchased for cash money from Peter Price of Roadsea fame for approx £1m in the late 80's early 90's

The site has been considerably extended since then. Is this the leased area alluded to?

Interestingly I heard from an impeccable source that David Lampitt had to personally implore both the King Edwards School and the owners of Stoneham Park to allow the Pompey First/Youth Teams to continue using their respective facilities after regular unpaid rent bills last season.

To be fair, this seems to be less problematic this year but watch this space