Seaborne - I just don't get it

[Arizona]

Hate to post a negative thread after a decent result tonight, but I just don't understand why we bought Seaborne. He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at Exeter and IMO has looked very average since he came here. My main gripe is just the constant hoofing. Often when he had plenty of time and space to take it down and play it. I think the main reason for our poor play in the first half was down to him and Davis lumping it up the pitch constantly and expecting all 5ft 10' of Lee Barnard to win it on his own.

 

Of all our current CB options I'd be inclined to give Martin a few games with Fonte.

[SuperMikey]

Completely agree, Seaborne hasn't impressed me at all. Plenty of time for him to improve, but I feel that Martin is currently ahead of him in terms of ability.

[saint_stevo]

Me either. Surely taking Championship centre half Elliot Ward on a free would have been better business

[Whitey Grandad]

He seems to have spent the closed season at the summer hoofball school.

[team-saint]

Remember that he is still young for a centre half. I agree he hasn't been a great signing so far but he definitely has potential.

[docker-p]

You're a brave man. The Cortese is god/evangelical/pollyannas will be after you for even thinking negative.

I've been less than sure about Seaborne myself, but the more he plays alongside Fonte the more he will improve

[Crab Lungs]

I've seen enough of Seaborne to confidently say he won't improve. I remember comments from people who said the likes of the abysmal Mikael Nilsson and Andreas Jakobsson would be "amazing" in the Championship just because they couldn't hack it in the Prem. Thankfully, they didn't hang around long enough to prove my point but I maintain that if you're a bad player, you're a bad player - it won't matter what level you go down to in professional football, you'll still be bad. It's just a matter of HOW bad.

 

For example, Paul Telfer. Djimi Traore... and so forth.

 

The same rule applies to talented players too, in some respects. I've no doubt Rickie Lambert could do a decent job in the Premier League. I mean... does anyone seriously thinks he'd be less effective than Heskey, Kevin Davies etc? I certainly don't...

[SuperMikey]

Docker, this is a thread about a player. Please don't turn it into another Cortese thread.

 

FWIW, I think he will improve in the future, he just needs the tutelage of an experienced pro (like Jaidi) and some gametime and it will come. The best thing to do would be to send him on loan, but that would leave us short at CB cover aside from Martin.

[Pilchards]

I read in the programme tonight that he is sponsored by British Airways!

 

You are kidding me?!?!

[MarkSFC]

I agree, he's at best an average League 1 defender. 4th change so to speak but hopefully we will sign a loanee CB to push Jaidi and Martin who I think has got what it takes to play at least Championship level!

 

Reckon Seabourne was a sort of panic buy in the sense of getting someone in.

[CitySaint]

In the air tonight won everything (positive), Distribution in the 1st half was abysmal (negative). Not as bad as being made out, potential to be a decent centre half ... given time.

[forever a red and white]

He does lack certin qualities but despite what you say there is room for improvement, but there is no doubt he is currently an L1 player, which is where we are and therefor adequate back-up. His biggest problem, which perhaps can be misleading is that he is a very unitdy player compared to his partner Fonte, who, to the odd occassion, is the opposite of erratic. He certainly showed signs of improvement last season and think he should be given a bit more time to develop this season.

 

Its nor easy for a CB to play irregualary then come in and gel perfecrlty with team-mates and simpley slot in.

[saint_stevo]

I assumed he was sponsored by the Freeborne garage? Just seemed to make sense

[Deppo]

You're a brave man. The Cortese is god/evangelical/pollyannas will be after you for even thinking negative.

 

Give over.

[saints_is_the_south]

Me either. Surely taking Championship centre half Elliot Ward on a free would have been better business

 

I reckon Cortese pulled the plug on the Ward deal because he wanted to take photos of inside SMS when he arrived...

 

I joke. On a serious note, not rated Seaborne from day 1, Martin is much better and can't understand why he didn't start tonight.

[toofarnorth]

In the air tonight won everything (positive), Distribution in the 1st half was abysmal (negative). Not as bad as being made out, potential to be a decent centre half ... given time.

 

Agreed. Wins most things in the air and reads the game well enough.

[saintscottofthenortham]

I reckon Cortese pulled the plug on the Ward deal because he wanted to take photos of inside SMS when he arrived...

 

I joke. On a serious note, not rated Seaborne from day 1, Martin is much better and can't understand why he didn't start tonight.

 

- +1

[Saint_clark]

- +1

 

Minus a plus one?

[Give it to Ron]

Me either. Surely taking Championship centre half Elliot Ward on a free would have been better business

 

Not if you had watched Ward play on Friday night for Norwich....he was atrocious.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I suspect that with Radhi Jaidi's mobility seriously in question (well I question it anyway) that Seaborne will before very long become a permanent fixture in the heart of our defence . Let's hope he's up to the challenge .

[Smirking_Saint]

TBF he won't look quite so bad when Lambert is upfront and 90% of the team revert to a long ball.

 

He is good in the air, pretty mobile and good in the tackle, i'll take that for league 1, he is not my number 1 choice but i think he will improve. I always found that the big hoof was always the territory of the underconfident player anyway so if we work on that aspect and his distribution he should come good(ish).

 

Especially if you compare him to Fonte, who is exceptional at this level.

[David Strover]

Perhaps Seabourne is becoming this season's 'hate' figure.

 

We always have one - no matter how he plays, what the result, what position Saints are in the table, someone will post on here that this particular player is sh*te.

 

Good luck Seabourne it's your turn!

[Smirking_Saint]

Nope, mine is Wotton i am afraid, he makes Jermaine wright look like Maradonna.

[doddisalegend]

I think both Seabourne and Jiadi are similair both are good in the air both are suspect at feet, but Seabourne has pace and jiadi has experince. When I saw Seabourne play last season he looked competent without looking spectacular, he's good enough at this level and young enough to improve, jiadi won't get any faster though.

Edited 11 August, 2010 by doddisalegend

[Gingeletiss]

He will improve, no doubt about that, but to what degree, tha is the question. The older a CH gets, the better, a bit like goalie's.

[CB Saint]

Well on another positive, he bailed Dickson out on several occasions in the first half.

[Chez]

he just needs to be nastier and win more headers. Whether he can do that I don't know. Strajge signing as there were better alternatives.

[Lumypie]

Having watched Seabourne for several games now I feel he has potential, he is Ok defensively but needs serious work on his distribution, all first half he didnt even try to control the ball and make a pass just hoof, someone must have had a word cause in 2nd half he tried to pass on the ground and actually did so, both him and martin both have bags of potential and need experience.

Also one other thought maybe he is excellent at this level but playing alongside Fonte highlights the gap in quality!!!

[JustMike]

yes he played hoof ball alot in the 1st half, but to be fair he won all he had to win as far as tackles and headers go. The more he plays alongside Fonte the better he will be

[Nadia Sllim]

For Seaborne read Airborne!

[Saint Fan CaM]

I thought he looked not too bad defensively, but agree his distribution was awful last night. I also think that Martin has a better football brain than Seaborne, but has yet to prove himself to be a 1st team regular. To be fair to Seaborne there were a number of players last night whose ability to distribute the ball seemed to have left them - notably Puncheon who lost the ball on countless occasions because he didn't look up and make a pass at the right time.

[saint_stevo]

Nope, mine is Wotton i am afraid, he makes Jermaine wright look like Maradonna.

 

He makes Lieutenant Dan from Forest Gump look mobile

[Saint_Rick]

How did Alex OC play last night?? Off track I know but I didn't get to the game last night

[Saint Fan CaM]

How did Alex OC play last night?? Off track I know but I didn't get to the game last night

 

I have to say I was quite unsure about what AP saw in him, however last night confirmed he is getting better and better. He is only 17 so put into context, the lad seems to have what it takes to be a real star. Interesting thing though was AP's comments when he said Alex would come under pressure for a place, hinting at a possible signing perhaps.

[Turkish]

I've seen enough of Seaborne to confidently say he won't improve. I remember comments from people who said the likes of the abysmal Mikael Nilsson and Andreas Jakobsson would be "amazing" in the Championship just because they couldn't hack it in the Prem. Thankfully, they didn't hang around long enough to prove my point but I maintain that if you're a bad player, you're a bad player - it won't matter what level you go down to in professional football, you'll still be bad. It's just a matter of HOW bad.

 

For example, Paul Telfer. Djimi Traore... and so forth.

 

The same rule applies to talented players too, in some respects. I've no doubt Rickie Lambert could do a decent job in the Premier League. I mean... does anyone seriously thinks he'd be less effective than Heskey, Kevin Davies etc? I certainly don't...

 

What a load of nonsense, do you really believe that Seabourne wouldn't be the best centre half in the conference? Players find their level, look at Gary Mcsheffery, superb for Birmingham in their promotion season but not quite up to it in the PL, same can be said for Rob Earnshaw, top Championship player in his day, but not quite up to it for the PL. DOesn't make either of them bad players, just not top players. Personally i dont get why we signed Seaborne ahead of Elliot Ward either but CB's dont reach their peak until 25+ he will get better, but not enough IMO to play at any higher level than the one he is at.

[dellgirl]

He started shakily but I thought grew in confidence and got better as game progressed also I think the atmosphere was very odd last night and could have affected the less experienced lads.

[Turkish]

He started shakily but I thought grew in confidence and got better as game progressed also I think the atmosphere was very odd last night and could have affected the less experienced lads.

 

????? Really, i thought it was very good considering only a half full stadium.

[SaintRichmond]

Hate to post a negative thread after a decent result tonight, but I just don't understand why we bought Seaborne. He wasn't exactly setting the world on fire at Exeter and IMO has looked very average since he came here. My main gripe is just the constant hoofing. Often when he had plenty of time and space to take it down and play it. I think the main reason for our poor play in the first half was down to him and Davis lumping it up the pitch constantly and expecting all 5ft 10' of Lee Barnard to win it on his own.

 

Of all our current CB options I'd be inclined to give Martin a few games with Fonte.

 

Absolutely right. I think he is Pardew's worst buy. When we start playing the ball on the ground, the oposition don't know how to cope. Then along comes "Desperate Dan" who just hoofs it up in the air

 

I really don't understand Pardew on that at all. I also feel very sorry for Barnard, he gets no help and support at all

 

As you say, shame to moan, but IMHO, it has to be said, otherwise Pardew may not be aware of it

 

A better reult from last Saturday, won with two individual bits of brilliance IMHO

 

The acid test will be MK Dons, in front of their massive support of circa 5000

[ChrisPY]

Jaidi looked slow and overweight on Saturday and shouldn't be starting IMO.

Seaborne's distribution was poor in the first half but he was winning almost everything in the air. I think AP must have told him to stop hoofing at half time, as in the second half he was bringing the ball down for Fonte until a loose pass went to a Bournemouth player and he lost confidence.

Could form a good partnership with Fonte this season.

[ribbo]

Jaidi's about 80 and cant handle two games in a week, good that we have seabourne + martin around who can learn off Jaidi and Fonté (and lets face it, Fonté is stupidly good at this level) Martin played well second half, him and dickson just had self enduced nightmares in the first half.

[View From The Top]

He's a no nonsense CB and come with winter months, that's just what we'll need. He's not in the same class as Fonte but we need brawn as well as brains in this league IMHO.

 

RJ looked two stone too heavy on Saturday and has the turning circle of a supertanker!

[Saint_Rick]

I have to say I was quite unsure about what AP saw in him, however last night confirmed he is getting better and better. He is only 17 so put into context, the lad seems to have what it takes to be a real star. Interesting thing though was AP's comments when he said Alex would come under pressure for a place, hinting at a possible signing perhaps.

 

Thanks, he's actually still 16

[iansums]

Am I the only one who thought Seaborne had an ok game last night. He won everything in the air, Jaidi didn't on Saturday. Yes, he did hoof it a bit but certainly no more so than Jaidi who to me looks incredibly clumsy. Seaborne also did try to play it to feet on a number of occasions. At the moment i would prefer Seaborne to Jaidi. Fonte was excellent, once again of course.

[Crab Lungs]

What a load of nonsense, do you really believe that Seabourne wouldn't be the best centre half in the conference? Players find their level, look at Gary Mcsheffery, superb for Birmingham in their promotion season but not quite up to it in the PL, same can be said for Rob Earnshaw, top Championship player in his day, but not quite up to it for the PL. DOesn't make either of them bad players, just not top players. Personally i dont get why we signed Seaborne ahead of Elliot Ward either but CB's dont reach their peak until 25+ he will get better, but not enough IMO to play at any higher level than the one he is at.

 

No, I don't, and I reference you on both the above players - hardly playing in great sides, were they? I'm sure if McSheffrey was actually given a decent run in, say, a Fulham side he'd have done OK. Earnshaw is a different matter but do you really think if he was given more chances in a better side he wouldn't put them away, say, for example, at Spurs?

 

Seaborne would still be affected at Conference level, it wouldn't matter. He'd still do the same things and make the same judgements.

[Andy_Porter]

Looks like we've found our new Lloyd James, Paul Telfer, Jermaine Wright...

 

I am pretty sure if we had signed Seaborne from a championship club where he was highly rated he wouldn't get half as much stick as he does, almost like people had pre-conceptions that he would be **** because they wanted the lad from Coventry instead.

 

Fonte our super cultured centre back hoofs it long time and time again, yet he still has this classy ball playing defender tag, it's ridiculous.

 

I'm undecided on Seaborne, I've seen every game he's been involved in and as a back up for Jaidi I think he's fine. From what I've seen of Martin i'd say Seaborne is a far better choice, even against Eastleigh Martin was terrible on the ball. On quite a few occassions he took the ball from Bart and under no pressure just hoofed it straight out of play aiming for one of out five foot nothing centre backs.

[Turkish]

No, I don't, and I reference you on both the above players - hardly playing in great sides, were they? I'm sure if McSheffrey was actually given a decent run in, say, a Fulham side he'd have done OK. Earnshaw is a different matter but do you really think if he was given more chances in a better side he wouldn't put them away, say, for example, at Spurs?

 

Seaborne would still be affected at Conference level, it wouldn't matter. He'd still do the same things and make the same judgements.

 

Our very own Rasiak, scored 20+ goals in the championship, yet couldn't cut it at Spurs, is he a crap player? Remember Darren Kenton, rated one of the best defenders outside the PL when we signed him, not up to it for us though. If McSheffrey is so good why didn't a better club sign him? The list of players is endless that did well in lower leagues but when they get a move to a bigger club or play at a higher level or a different type of football they can be found wanting. Doesn't make them generically bad players, just playing above the level of their abilities. If what you say is true why dont Real madrid sign the best league 2 players and stick them all in their starting line, if they are good at any level, rather than spending £35m on Villa?

The 'he was playing in a crap team' is ridulous, Crouch did okay for us when we got relegated and were awful didn't he, Matt Le Tissler seemed to get by as well in some truely awful Saints teams.

As for Seaborne, of course he'd be a stand out player in the conference, that is why he is a league one player. If he was playing 2 leagues down he'd have the same ability but the players he is up against are less able so he would automatically look better. Danny Butterfield was hardly a stand out Championship right back but looks a cut above having come down a league.

Edited 11 August, 2010 by Turkish

[david in sweden]

yes he played hoof ball alot in the 1st half, but to be fair he won all he had to win as far as tackles and headers go. The more he plays alongside Fonte the better he will be

 

Not particularly Seabourne, but why do people criticise defenders who hoof the ball upfield, or into touch ?

Their job is to clear their lines, and often they have precious little time to do that, especially from a crossed ball or a corner.

 

Do people expect tall, hardheaded defenders to shimmy their way past opposition strikers with the grace of a ballet dancer?... ala Bobby Moore. (OK... a lot of you are too young to remember him), but you rarely see a goalie who can find his own man on a kick-out or throw...how do you expect defenders to behave in the heat of the moment.?.

I was fortunate enough to see John Mc Grath play and anyone else who did ...would say the same ...play it safe ..the big boot ..everytime.

[Professor]

Hard to understand the negativity about Dan Seaborne. Did the CB pairing let any goals in last night?

 

Some people have been on his back since he came here - any poster saying he didn't rate Seaborne from Day 1 obviously didn't watch him play before he decided his attitude. I didn't see him last night, but I have seen him playing very assured and with excellent positional play.

[jam]

Not particularly Seabourne, but why do people criticise defenders who hoof the ball upfield, or into touch ?

Their job is to clear their lines, and often they have precious little time to do that, especially from a crossed ball or a corner.

 

Do people expect tall, hardheaded defenders to shimmy their way past opposition strikers with the grace of a ballet dancer?... ala Bobby Moore. (OK... a lot of you are too young to remember him), but you rarely see a goalie who can find his own man on a kick-out or throw...how do you expect defenders to behave in the heat of the moment.?.

I was fortunate enough to see John Mc Grath play and anyone else who did ...would say the same ...play it safe ..the big boot ..everytime.

 

I think it's something to do with the fact that when you're under the cosh it's better to try and keep possession rather than giving it straight back to the opposition and saying 'here you go, try again'.

[View From The Top]

I think it's something to do with the fact that when you're under the cosh it's better to try and keep possession rather than giving it straight back to the opposition and saying 'here you go, try again'.

 

Whilst I'm in total agreement we are unlikely to find a ball playing, 50yds to feet, CB in the third tier of English football and therefore I'll happily settle for hoofing it away from danger!

 

If they could get the ball under control, make space for themselves and then drop it 50yds over the full back they wouldn't be playing L1 football!