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Do I want promotion in 2011/12?


Professor

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If Saints get promoted next season, the prize could be a year of anguish and misery as the team struggles for a few wins, gets lots of defeats and hovers around the bottom of the Prem until relegation in May 2012. The prospect could be of becoming a Brum-type yoyo club.

Or, true to his objective of Prem League stability, Cortese sanctions some big spending. Most of the players who had celebrated the promotion are politely thanked and in their place come a bunch of over-paid foreign journeymen who kiss the badge when they score but don't actually care who pays them to play. Even then, the team can't compete with the super-clubs of manuyre, mansh*tty, chelski, etc. whose obscene money keeps the top 6 sown up.

So what's better? Get promoted and have one of these two scenarios come about, or perform well enough to be competing in the top 6 or 8 places in the NcP but avoid going up?

The dilemma for me is, I want promotion, but I don't want the consequences.

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Everyone will be watching how Norwich get on next season but if teams like Wigan, Stoke and Wolves can stay there then why can't we. It would be great to go straight up and I don't think it will harm us. Some teams get close and then lose their top players just as we did after 2006/07

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My thoughts exactly. I can see how the Premiership is the promised land for clubs who have never been there but, for me, the novelty wore off long before relegation. It is great to start the season with a genuine chance of being at or near the top. Of course we want promotion but we will miss the buzz of winning many more games than we lose. We got 92 points this year and in the premiership we would be 'happy' with 40. That's many fewer goals to cheer and more gloomy Saturday nights following a defeat. I am afraid I am one of those who would much rather watch us beat Ipswich 4-1 than see us lose 3-0 at Chelsea. Never mind, onwards and upwards!

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If Saints get promoted next season, the prize could be a year of anguish and misery as the team struggles for a few wins, gets lots of defeats and hovers around the bottom of the Prem until relegation in May 2012. The prospect could be of becoming a Brum-type yoyo club.

Or, true to his objective of Prem League stability, Cortese sanctions some big spending. Most of the players who had celebrated the promotion are politely thanked and in their place come a bunch of over-paid foreign journeymen who kiss the badge when they score but don't actually care who pays them to play. Even then, the team can't compete with the super-clubs of manuyre, mansh*tty, chelski, etc. whose obscene money keeps the top 6 sown up.

So what's better? Get promoted and have one of these two scenarios come about, or perform well enough to be competing in the top 6 or 8 places in the NcP but avoid going up?

The dilemma for me is, I want promotion, but I don't want the consequences.

 

Always a little strange when people bring this up. Every Saints fan should really want the club to go up next season, it will mean Saints have the money from the Premier League early in order to improve the club. It also means the best players won't necessarily leave next summer as the like of Chamberlain may stay to play for the first season with Saints in the Premier League. If Saints do keep Chamberlain for next season and don't go up, it is likely he'll be off.

 

In any case, Cortese has stated in public interview the intention is not merely to get the club to the Premier League to wallow around the lower reaches, it is to compete towards the top. He has access to the funds to do this. Even if Saints were to be relegated the parachute payments of nearly £50m put the club in a stronger position to go up again than if they didn't have the parachute payments.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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QPR have just announced the matchday ticket prices - from £47 to £72 each! Too rich for me, I really hope Saints never have to charge like this. I know Loftus Road is smaller than SMS and they need the income, but how many fans will say "enough is enough" and just stop going?

 

At least in the Championship ticket prices will be affordable for just about all fans.

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QPR have just announced the matchday ticket prices - from £47 to £72 each! Too rich for me, I really hope Saints never have to charge like this. I know Loftus Road is smaller than SMS and they need the income, but how many fans will say "enough is enough" and just stop going?

 

At least in the Championship ticket prices will be affordable for just about all fans.

 

Very much this!

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All this "wait a season and build a squad" stuff is just complete b@ll@x, we could spend 10 years in the Championship and still get sent straight back down when we go up - it makes no difference.

 

The sooner we go up the better, it's as simple as that.

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Tickets prices are a worry, but I guess when it comes to match day this season I will want to see a win every time.

 

I do wonder sometimes how much some of the players want promotion. I guess they are on promotion bonuses, but how many of them know they will be out the door when it comes to it?

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Are you crazy its the same with everything the better the quality of the product your receiving the higher the price ! What's to say had we stayed in the premier league our prices wouldn't be around the ones quoted above ? Let's get straight up there !

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Want to get back to the Prem ASAP.

Wouldn't bother me if we do a Blackpool (financially) as they have secured their club for a good few years with the parachute payments and are definately financially stronger than their last stint in the championship!

Would be great though if NC did give the go ahead to spend a few bob (club long term security first though).

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Always a little strange when people bring this up. Every Saints fan should really want the club to go up next season, it will mean Saints have the money from the Premier League early in order to improve the club. It also means the best players won't necessarily leave next summer as the like of Chamberlain may stay to play for the first season with Saints in the Premier League. If Saints do keep Chamberlain for next season and don't go up, it is likely he'll be off.

 

In any case, Cortese has stated in public interview the intention is not merely to get the club to the Premier League to wallow around the lower reaches, it is to compete towards the top. He has access to the funds to do this. Even if Saints were to be relegated the parachute payments of nearly £50m put the club in a stronger position to go up again than if they didn't have the parachute payments.

 

This.

 

FWIW, we cannot afford to hang around in this division and 'establish' ourselves. If we go with that intention, or that we're happy with that, then you can bet that Lallana, Oxo, Fonte and all of our best players will be gone before long.

 

We need to go up this season to retain them as beyond the end of next season, I cannot help but think we'll have quality players with very, very itchy feet.

 

And who will we replace them with? Cloggers most likely, and then we'll likely end up stagnating like Coventry, Palace etc. We cannot afford to do that.

 

We have an opportunity NOW. We have the momentum of last season, a settled and happy squad and with a few sensible additions, we can challenge. We must challenge. This is probably the best shot we'll get at promotion since we were relegated in 04/05. Let's not waste it.

 

Worst case scenario if we get promoted is relegation - but relegation with an extra £60m in our back pocket. That's the time when we can afford to lose Lallana, Oxo, Fonte.

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This.

 

FWIW, we cannot afford to hang around in this division and 'establish' ourselves. If we go with that intention, or that we're happy with that, then you can bet that Lallana, Oxo, Fonte and all of our best players will be gone before long.

 

We need to go up this season to retain them as beyond the end of next season, I cannot help but think we'll have quality players with very, very itchy feet.

 

And who will we replace them with? Cloggers most likely, and then we'll likely end up stagnating like Coventry, Palace etc. We cannot afford to do that.

 

We have an opportunity NOW. We have the momentum of last season, a settled and happy squad and with a few sensible additions, we can challenge. We must challenge. This is probably the best shot we'll get at promotion since we were relegated in 04/05. Let's not waste it.

 

Worst case scenario if we get promoted is relegation - but relegation with an extra £60m in our back pocket. That's the time when we can afford to lose Lallana, Oxo, Fonte.

 

+1 :-)

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Always a little strange when people bring this up. Every Saints fan should really want the club to go up next season, it will mean Saints have the money from the Premier League early in order to improve the club. It also means the best players won't necessarily leave next summer as the like of Chamberlain may stay to play for the first season with Saints in the Premier League. If Saints do keep Chamberlain for next season and don't go up, it is likely he'll be off.

 

In any case, Cortese has stated in public interview the intention is not merely to get the club to the Premier League to wallow around the lower reaches, it is to compete towards the top. He has access to the funds to do this. Even if Saints were to be relegated the parachute payments of nearly £50m put the club in a stronger position to go up again than if they didn't have the parachute payments.

 

But it's like somebody else said, warring emotions.

 

I want to see the best players I possibly can, and ideally see saints in the highest possible league. The higher prices doesn't bother me but what does is the way fans of prem clubs are very much secondary to Sky Sports.

 

Taking Stoke as a random example. How many Saturday 3PM games did they have at home this season? Just 8.

West Ham - 10

Blackpool - 9

 

 

Now I know to some people this wont matter but it would affect my enjoyment of a season to an extent.

 

But it is conflicting emotions, one the one hand I would love to see us back on Match of the Day and handing out beatings to the big clubs once again, on the other hand the Championship suits me just fine for a bit.

 

I'm not desperate for the Premier League myself. That said I'm sure I will be going mental with the rest of you if we somehow managed promotion next season. It's a funny old game.

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This.

 

FWIW, we cannot afford to hang around in this division and 'establish' ourselves. If we go with that intention, or that we're happy with that, then you can bet that Lallana, Oxo, Fonte and all of our best players will be gone before long.

 

We need to go up this season to retain them as beyond the end of next season, I cannot help but think we'll have quality players with very, very itchy feet.

 

And who will we replace them with? Cloggers most likely, and then we'll likely end up stagnating like Coventry, Palace etc. We cannot afford to do that.

 

We have an opportunity NOW. We have the momentum of last season, a settled and happy squad and with a few sensible additions, we can challenge. We must challenge. This is probably the best shot we'll get at promotion since we were relegated in 04/05. Let's not waste it.

 

Worst case scenario if we get promoted is relegation - but relegation with an extra £60m in our back pocket. That's the time when we can afford to lose Lallana, Oxo, Fonte.

 

Whats the difference between stagnating in the champ and stagnating in the PL like Bolton, Stoke or Sunderland? apart from 30 quid more a ticket (if QPR anything to go by), I still don't get the "PL is the greatest" thing. The club gets more money but it costs a whole lot more to just to stay up. Most clubs in the PL apart from maybe half a dozen are basically hoping to avoid relegation becuse they know they won't be winning it or getting a CL spot.

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Whats the difference between stagnating in the champ and stagnating in the PL like Bolton, Stoke or Sunderland? apart from 30 quid more a ticket (if QPR anything to go by), I still don't get the "PL is the greatest" thing. The club gets more money but it costs a whole lot more to just to stay up. Most clubs in the PL apart from maybe half a dozen are basically hoping to avoid relegation becuse they know they won't be winning it or getting a CL spot.

 

The difference? Money? Better players? Better opposition? A more realistic chance of being able to win one of the Cup competitions? The possibility of Europe, perhaps, not every year, but at least an infrequent possibility.

 

That's enough reason for me. Yes, I've enjoyed our 'ride' outside the top division but the novelty has worn off now. We might not ever become one of the top four but I sure as hell enjoyed watching Saints play the best clubs in the country on a regular basis.

 

Anyway, who is to say that we'll settle for just obscurity?

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I think the emotions on the faces of fans when their club gets relegated from the Prem tells you all you need to know about what it means to be there. You don't get many saying "goody 20 quid less a ticket and away at Doncaster will be an attractive fixture"

 

Southampton is a top division club, it's where we should always aim to be.

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Whats the difference between stagnating in the champ and stagnating in the PL like Bolton, Stoke or Sunderland? apart from 30 quid more a ticket (if QPR anything to go by), I still don't get the "PL is the greatest" thing. The club gets more money but it costs a whole lot more to just to stay up. Most clubs in the PL apart from maybe half a dozen are basically hoping to avoid relegation becuse they know they won't be winning it or getting a CL spot.

 

The difference, for me, is that I used to seriously look forward to playing Arsenal, Chelski, Liverpool, Spurs (hated them for years) and Utd in a way that I never quite could - to the same extent - about playing Norwich, Cardiff, Forest, and whoever else is in the top 10 of the Championship. Beating the big boys gives a warm glow that lasts for years, literally!

 

And as for "most clubs in the PL", Brum won the Carling Cup and got into Europe (ok they messed up in the league); Stoke got to the FA Cup final; Fulham got to the Europa Final the year before. Plenty to play for, bring it on

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How can we be promoted in 2011/2012 then relegated in may 2012 ????

 

If Saints get promoted next season, the prize could be a year of anguish and misery as the team struggles for a few wins, gets lots of defeats and hovers around the bottom of the Prem until relegation in May 2012. [/u][/u][/u][/b] The prospect could be of becoming a Brum-type yoyo club.

Or, true to his objective of Prem League stability, Cortese sanctions some big spending. Most of the players who had celebrated the promotion are politely thanked and in their place come a bunch of over-paid foreign journeymen who kiss the badge when they score but don't actually care who pays them to play. Even then, the team can't compete with the super-clubs of manuyre, mansh*tty, chelski, etc. whose obscene money keeps the top 6 sown up.

So what's better? Get promoted and have one of these two scenarios come about, or perform well enough to be competing in the top 6 or 8 places in the NcP but avoid going up?

The dilemma for me is, I want promotion, but I don't want the consequences.

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With the millions in parachute money available for the club yes I certainly would

 

This. Plus there's a chance we won't go down. Keep Chamberlain, Lallana, Fonte and Morgan and possibly Guly, all who imo would cut it in the Premiership, and with a few additions we're not far off anyway. The team would be strong but the squad would be weak. I'll be interested to see what our transfers this summer will be like. We built for the Championship in League One, will Cortese fund Premiership quality players for the Championship?

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Would love to go straight up, and if I had to choose straight away or it could be 2,3,4,5,6.......seasons time then it is straight away, you cannot pick and choose and it will be a hard league to get out of!

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Always a little strange when people bring this up. Every Saints fan should really want the club to go up next season, it will mean Saints have the money from the Premier League early in order to improve the club. It also means the best players won't necessarily leave next summer as the like of Chamberlain may stay to play for the first season with Saints in the Premier League. If Saints do keep Chamberlain for next season and don't go up, it is likely he'll be off.

 

In any case, Cortese has stated in public interview the intention is not merely to get the club to the Premier League to wallow around the lower reaches, it is to compete towards the top. He has access to the funds to do this. Even if Saints were to be relegated the parachute payments of nearly £50m put the club in a stronger position to go up again than if they didn't have the parachute payments.

 

Spot on. I can never understand people saying they would not want promotion, even if we came straight back down again we'd make a huge amount of money

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I think this coming season represents a great chance to build on the momentum we have, and push for a promotion place - but personally, I would prefer to consolidate for a year, and hope some of our more promising players come through. I think we are going to lose AOC anyway - it's just a matter of when. I'd love to see Saints in the Premiership - but with a mixture of home produced players in with all the mercenaries that will come our way and be gone as soon as they get a better contract offer and if that means waiting a year or two then so be it.

 

Having said that....I'm coming back to the UK for the Olympics next year, and if I can time my visit for our triumphant return to the premiership as well, then I could live with that too! lol

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No thanks, not interested in the Prem. Give me the Championship anyday. I've got no idea why these other Championship clubs target promotion every year when they could just assure a mid-table place and enjoy the Championship for what it is.

 

Oh wait... that's mental.

 

Yes, definitely Premiership as soon as possible, if possible. Sheesh.

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Spot on. I can never understand people saying they would not want promotion, even if we came straight back down again we'd make a huge amount of money
As I said, I do want promotion but I worry that the consequences may be disapointing and that 12 months later I'll be miserable again! I'm not sure that the money in the Prem does really affect the dilemma, after all, we are led to believe that with the Leibherrs, money is not a problem. In any case most of the money of the Prem clubs just goes to overpaid players, agents and inflated transfer fees, and despite the so called 'wealth' fans have to pay even more to watch their team. The whole thing has a nasty smell, and yet I still want Saints to finish top of the NpC table. I suppose its emotion, not logic.
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I understand the fears over ticket prices but I still feel the 'desire' to stay in a lower division smacks of the same thinking that says 'marry a plain girl because she's less likely to leave you'.

 

We should aim for the top, IMO.

 

Yes, there are two different threads here - firstly, of course I want the club to be as successful as possible - and secondly, I can't afford to pay fifty quid or more a game, so I'll have to make do with 5 Live and MotD.

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If Saints get promoted next season, the prize could be a year of anguish and misery as the team struggles for a few wins, gets lots of defeats and hovers around the bottom of the Prem until relegation in May 2012. The prospect could be of becoming a Brum-type yoyo club.

Or, true to his objective of Prem League stability, Cortese sanctions some big spending. Most of the players who had celebrated the promotion are politely thanked and in their place come a bunch of over-paid foreign journeymen who kiss the badge when they score but don't actually care who pays them to play. Even then, the team can't compete with the super-clubs of manuyre, mansh*tty, chelski, etc. whose obscene money keeps the top 6 sown up.

So what's better? Get promoted and have one of these two scenarios come about, or perform well enough to be competing in the top 6 or 8 places in the NcP but avoid going up?

The dilemma for me is, I want promotion, but I don't want the consequences.

 

You are making a lot of assumptions here. For a start, it's thinking a long way ahead to the Premiership before we have even kicked a ball in the second division this coming season. If your point holds any water at all that our players in the Premiership might just be badge-kissing mercenaries, surely the chance is that we might need one or two Premiership quality players to join us now to assist us to get up there. Also, whereas we had some of these mercenaries when we were in the Premiership, we also had some foreign players who were good servants for the club, players like Claus Lundekvan, Parhars and Killer for example. What is to say that we might not succeed with a hardcore of able players that we have now who could do a job in the top flight, together with some rising stars like Chamberlain and Lallana (and by then perhaps one or two other youngsters of that ilk), together with some astute buys in the mould of those former good servants?

 

So excuse me for wishing for a third scenario, one where we develop a team based on what I have cited above, a team that has grown and developed together, a team that has been honed and fine tuned to play for each other and for us and the club.

 

There is no reason that a team like that should not succeed in avoiding relegation in the first season, allowing it to build and develop further in the ensuing season. Initially we should seek to emulate teams like Stoke and Bolton and then push on by feeding in promising youngsters and by unearthing some gems. We managed to stay in the Premiership for 27 years as paupers, but we always had to sell any player with real talent, apart from Le Tiss. Now we might actually not only be able to keep those players that show real quality, but actually be able to afford to bring in the sort of players that could make a real difference. I don't accept that it is impossible to be able to compete with the top four clubs. Massive expenditure on a team doesn't necessarily mean that they play well together as a team. Chelsea and Man City spent way more than ManUre, but didn't win the league. A year ago you wouldn't have forecast that Liverpool would not qualify for Europe, surely? With new regulations brought in to level the playing field, our chances will improve on getting up there, maybe in 5 years time.

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This. Plus there's a chance we won't go down. Keep Chamberlain, Lallana, Fonte and Morgan and possibly Guly, all who imo would cut it in the Premiership, and with a few additions we're not far off anyway. The team would be strong but the squad would be weak. I'll be interested to see what our transfers this summer will be like. We built for the Championship in League One, will Cortese fund Premiership quality players for the Championship?

 

No!

 

There is a world of difference between funding L2 players on L1 wages (RL? AL? JF? KD?) and funding Prem wages on a Championship income stream.... I see nothing to suggest we can afford 4/5/6 players on 'Prem' wages next year (could be wrong tho!)

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I sometimes feel conflicted on this one. I actually really enjoyed the League One adventure. I can see the case for "fun" (and maybe cheaper prices) in the NPC.

 

But all that said....imagine this...12 months from now we're in the play-off final. It's gone to a penalty shoot out. It's 4 all and Jose Fonte steps up to take the final penalty.

 

Can you seriously conceive that you want him to miss?

 

If the answer is NO, then you want Saints to be promoted...

 

(note: I am assuming Fonte is playing for Saints!!!)

Edited by SaintBobby
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The reality is if we got promoted next season the vast majority would be over the moon about it.

A lot of today's fans (me included) grew up with Saints in the top flight. Sure we didn't always do so well, had to escape relegation most seasons but when we did win it was all the more special. We all remember the scores, games like when we beat Man Utd 6-3.

The Premiership right now is a 5 horse race. It used to be a 2 horse race. As time goes on that 5 will turn to 6 and so on. As more clubs are bought out by rich billionaires the more teams there are that are competative. Look at it this season. Anyone could of won the title up until a few weeks ago and a lot of clubs could of been relegated on the final day. If you said at the start of the season Man Utd would only win 5 away games all year most people would of laughed at it. Most teams in the league can beat each other. A team that is down won the League Cup and so on. The PL is exciting. It is the best league in the world. I'd love for us to be back amongst it. I'd love to see world class players week in week out at our stadium. Hopefully a lot of them playing for our club!

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It's a dilemma i've had for a while, i want saints to win and be the best BUT i hate the hype, the bull****, the prices and the losing of the premiership.

 

The championship is fun, competitive and has the passion the old first division used to have. True we don't have the chance of a European adventure, but then how often did that happen?

 

I don't know, flit with promotion.

 

Maybe even get it?

 

But don't forget what football is about (and that's what i've remembered in the lower leagues) the fans.

 

To chase a promised land, that's really fairly soul destroying as it stands, is no fun. To lose [or expect to] is no fun. To see eighth as a good finish is no fun. To watch our ground become a soulless; quiet day out is no fun.

 

BUT!

 

To see us beat United is amazing. To see us known round the world again fills you with pride. To know that if we ever produced another Le Tiss he'd stay fills me with hope....

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.........................

So excuse me for wishing for a third scenario, one where we develop a team based on what I have cited above, a team that has grown and developed together, a team that has been honed and fine tuned to play for each other and for us and the club.

......................

With new regulations brought in to level the playing field, our chances will improve on getting up there, maybe in 5 years time.

Two good points, Wes. You do provide a glimmer of optimism, that when we get promoted, which I'm confident we will under the 5 (now 4) year plan, the good may out-weigh the bad. The Fair Play rules, if they work, do seem to offer hope for change.

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No!

 

There is a world of difference between funding L2 players on L1 wages (RL? AL? JF? KD?) and funding Prem wages on a Championship income stream.... I see nothing to suggest we can afford 4/5/6 players on 'Prem' wages next year (could be wrong tho!)

 

But SNSUN didn't say that. He said Premiership quality players. Arguably, we have had some in our team this past season, playing in the third division. There are plenty of options to gain Premiership quality players this coming season without paying Premiership wages.

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I guess for the good of the club we need to be back in the prem but the lower leagues have reminded me what Football is about

 

There is a lot to be said about going to Football 3pm Saturday seeing your team compete & win more than they lose watching players that have some connection with the club & have come through the ranks

 

The club has to progress & I would really enjoy watching us gain another promotion I wouldnt mind if we could do a WBA promotion every other year would be fun

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