Fraser Forster

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

If we don't have any money then what are we supposed to do? Magic some up? Put the club at risk by getting in unaffordable debt?

It seems very unlikely that we are blind to the issues at GK

It’s about priorities. I don’t believe for one minute getting another keeper in will mean “unaffordable debt”. Get someone in on loan, wheel & deal, it’s called management.
 

No doubt the Ralph apologists will give him a pass, but if we end up with one of these 2 as our number 1, it’s down to him. The choices he makes will determine who is in nets for us this season, the buck stops with him. Personally, I believe its probably the easiest position to get a short term fix in. If he doesn’t it can only mean he’s happy with our options and he must carry the can if they continue to underperform 

[once_bitterne]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s about priorities. I don’t believe for one minute getting another keeper in will mean “unaffordable debt”. Get someone in on loan, wheel & deal, it’s called management.
 

No doubt the Ralph apologists will give him a pass, but if we end up with one of these 2 as our number 1, it’s down to him. The choices he makes will determine who is in nets for us this season, the buck stops with him. Personally, I believe its probably the easiest position to get a short term fix in. If he doesn’t it can only mean he’s happy with our options and he must carry the can if they continue to underperform 

F'king Ralph lumbering us with the transfer fees of Lemina, Hoedt, Elywotsit, Carrillo, Boufal, etc, etc, etc which are the reason we are financially f'ked now.

The choices we have made so far are to bring in a LB which is understandable as we didn't have a single one in our squad beforehand.  

[Lord Duckhunter]

53 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

F'king Ralph lumbering us with the transfer fees of Lemina, Hoedt, Elywotsit, Carrillo, Boufal, etc, etc, etc which are the reason we are financially f'ked now.

The choices we have made so far are to bring in a LB which is understandable as we didn't have a single one in our squad beforehand.  

Ralph will have a budget & it’s up to him to manage within that budget. If he needs to shift people out to generate more money for signings or the wages of loan players, then that’s what he needs to do. You know, manage the squad, like countless previous managers have done. Maybe had he not persisted with this ridiculous rotation pony we may have been able to move one of them on. He’s been in charge for 2.5 years now, the goalkeeping fiasco hasn’t  been suddenly dropped on him, he’s been a part of it. 

[saint michael]

I don’t think anybody is blaming Ralph for financial performance. 
 

he does have a responsibility for coaching and improving our defence and GK. 

I am critical of him here because if Dave Watson can’t improve them and their tactics what is he doing? He’s been here long enough to be responsible. Great job I reckon… 

also our defence tactically is dire. What is he trying to do and how successful does he think he’s been

[Greenridge]

1 hour ago, saint michael said:

I don’t think anybody is blaming Ralph for financial performance. 
 

he does have a responsibility for coaching and improving our defence and GK. 

I am critical of him here because if Dave Watson can’t improve them and their tactics what is he doing? He’s been here long enough to be responsible. Great job I reckon… 

also our defence tactically is dire. What is he trying to do and how successful does he think he’s been

If you don't have the inherent ability it doesn't matter if you have Dino Zoff coaching you. Surprised Puel bought McCarthy to the club. Surprised he didn't move Forster on either. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

31 minutes ago, Greenridge said:

If you don't have the inherent ability it doesn't matter if you have Dino Zoff coaching you. Surprised Puel bought McCarthy to the club. Surprised he didn't move Forster on either. 

No surprise to see Puel still getting blamed for decisions despite 3 subsequent managers and Ralph being here 2.5 seasons. When are some posters going to make the first team manager accountable. When he’s been here 3 years, 4 years, 5 years? 

[saint michael]

53 minutes ago, Greenridge said:

If you don't have the inherent ability it doesn't matter if you have Dino Zoff coaching you. Surprised Puel bought McCarthy to the club. Surprised he didn't move Forster on either. 

So following what you say then his decision to be to move him, them on.  He has never spoken about a new gk or coach to my knowledge 

[Chez]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57917043

Dream article for anyone trying to offload a keeper called Forster.

However, article also shows that picking up `good' less costly European keepers doesn't always work out.

 

 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Greenridge said:

If you don't have the inherent ability it doesn't matter if you have Dino Zoff coaching you. Surprised Puel bought McCarthy to the club. Surprised he didn't move Forster on either. 

Would have been particularly odd to move Forster on after the two seasons he had with Koeman.

And he had a massive contract.

So I don't get your "surprise".

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m surprised Ronald Koeman didn’t move Forster on, he must have realised he’d be shite 6 years later. 

Edited 21 July, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Ex Lion Tamer]

6 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s about priorities. I don’t believe for one minute getting another keeper in will mean “unaffordable debt”. Get someone in on loan, wheel & deal, it’s called management.
 

No doubt the Ralph apologists will give him a pass, but if we end up with one of these 2 as our number 1, it’s down to him. The choices he makes will determine who is in nets for us this season, the buck stops with him. Personally, I believe its probably the easiest position to get a short term fix in. If he doesn’t it can only mean he’s happy with our options and he must carry the can if they continue to underperform 

I find it amusing how right wingers will talk forever about governments needing to cut spending and make sacrifices so we live within our means but the same doesn't seem to apply to football clubs

Edited 21 July, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Dark Munster]

I'm surprised Puel was allowed to bring in the Donkey from Monaco for £19m. I've never forgiven him for that.

[egg]

15 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I find it amusing how right wingers will talk forever about governments needing to cut spending and make sacrifices so we live within our means but the same doesn't seem to apply to football clubs

Managing to squeeze a political dig into a goalkeeper thread takes some effort. Good work. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

19 minutes ago, egg said:

Managing to squeeze a political dig into a goalkeeper thread takes some effort. Good work. 

😇😇😇

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ralph will have a budget & it’s up to him to manage within that budget. If he needs to shift people out to generate more money for signings or the wages of loan players, then that’s what he needs to do. 

 

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I find it amusing how right wingers will talk forever about governments needing to cut spending and make sacrifices so we live within our means but the same doesn't seem to apply to football clubs

I find it amusing when soft arsed lefties make things up.

Working to a budget set by his employer is living within your means. 

Edited 21 July, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Ex Lion Tamer]

40 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

I find it amusing when soft arsed lefties make things up.

Working to a budget set by his employer is living within your means. 

Which of our potential signings would you go without to generate funds for another keeper?

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

I find it amusing when soft arsed lefties make things up.

Working to a budget set by his employer is living within your means. 

I wouldn't even say he's working to a budget, he's working with nothing. The club are working in the background to generate the funds to enable the movement in the squad.

I guess the question is - would you consider an Ings replacement less important than a new goalkeeper? I personally wouldn't. Goalkeeper is a position that would be nice to upgrade, without question, but there are many other pressing areas that take my attention long before the goal keepers. If we had stacks of money it wouldn't be a question, but we have no money what so ever...so we've got to be very clever with what we do.

Shelling out any fee on a goal keeper when we already have two well paid ones on the books, and leaving gaps at full back, up front and midfield would be utter lunacy in my eyes.

[Cartman]

30 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Which of our potential signings would you go without to generate funds for another keeper?

Can't speak for Duckhunter, but for me, any of them.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Cartman said:

Can't speak for Duckhunter, but for me, any of them.

So you'd rather run the risk of Stephens or Salisu at full back, maybe a young kid coming into CM, or Long starting up top as a regular just so we get a decent goalie? 

I get we need a new goalie and in an ideal world we'd sort it, but it's not an ideal world and we have no money so there are just more pressing concerns.

[Cartman]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

So you'd rather run the risk of Stephens or Salisu at full back, maybe a young kid coming into CM, or Long starting up top as a regular just so we get a decent goalie? 

I get we need a new goalie and in an ideal world we'd sort it, but it's not an ideal world and we have no money so there are just more pressing concerns.

Long is behind Ings, Adams, Tella, Redmond, Walcott and probably Elyounoussi and Obafemi, so there is no chance of him ever starting. CM we have JWP, Romeu and Diallo getting most of the game time with Armstrong and Smallbone as extra options, could do with more but as a priority it doesn't come close. That leaves fullback, and I would choose a quality GK over backup fullbacks. And for all the "we have no money claims", no one here knows for sure what we do or don't have. What we do know is that we took out a big loan, so basically an advance on future earnings which means we won't have any more money next summer than we do now, and since pretty much everyone accepts that we will need a new GK by next year at the latest, it makes no sense to wait until then and have our poor GKs cost us another season.

You say there are more pressing concerns, I don't see any.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Which of our potential signings would you go without to generate funds for another keeper?

I’m not paid millions of pounds to decide. Ralph is, the buck stops with him. 
 

At least we’re on the same page. You clearly accept that  a keeper could be signed, depending on the managers priorities. Personally, I think it’s a fucking high priority. 

[Give it to Ron]

9 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’m not paid millions of pounds to decide. Ralph is, the buck stops with him. 
 

At least we’re on the same page. You clearly accept that  a keeper could be signed, depending on the managers priorities. Personally, I think it’s a fucking high priority. 

I can’t find it now but there was a report/stats on why we conceded so many and a lot of that was due to piss poor goalkeeping. A high number of goals were conceded pretty central areas of the goal.

Although many of us could of said that it’s obvious neither are of the quality needed for mid table prem side.

The farce of rotating them just made things worse.

 

[East Kent Saint]

9 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’m not paid millions of pounds to decide. Ralph is, the buck stops with him. 
 

At least we’re on the same page. You clearly accept that  a keeper could be signed, depending on the managers priorities. Personally, I think it’s a fucking high priority. 

Ramsdale is available for £32M say Sheffield Utd in response to Arsenal !!!

[sydney_saint]

With strikers, it is pretty difficult to get a player in on the cheap that will do the job in the EPL. Any promising player globally will have a dozen scouts on him. Sure, you get the odd hidden gem, but by and large is a tough gig.

With keepers, I feel it is more about the scouting than the money. Plenty of good keepers out there on the cheap and under the radar. Dubravka cost Newcastle a couple of million, Sanchez cost Brighton bugger all, Meslier cost 4m. We should be a big enough draw, and have a big enough scouting department to land someone decent. May not be world class, but better than what we have got. 

I do think it would be a big failing of the club if we don't bring someone else in. 

 

 

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

Ramsdale is available for £32M say Sheffield Utd in response to Arsenal !!!

Doesn’t he have 2 successive relegations not sure Arsenal make 3 they let best keeper go to Villa

[TWar]

Ralph is not in charge of the budget, negotiating, "wheeling and dealing", or squad/financial structure. No manager does that any more, it's the director of football's job.

Ralphs sole contributions will be answering "got any suggestions?", and "hey Ralph, we found this player what do you think?"

The idea that he's personally ringing up Ademola Lookman trying to get a deal through with an excel spreadsheet in front of him is not only hilarious but also shows a complete lack of understanding as to how a club works.

Edited 22 July, 2021 by TWar

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, sydney_saint said:

With strikers, it is pretty difficult to get a player in on the cheap that will do the job in the EPL. Any promising player globally will have a dozen scouts on him. Sure, you get the odd hidden gem, but by and large is a tough gig.

With keepers, I feel it is more about the scouting than the money. Plenty of good keepers out there on the cheap and under the radar. Dubravka cost Newcastle a couple of million, Sanchez cost Brighton bugger all, Meslier cost 4m. We should be a big enough draw, and have a big enough scouting department to land someone decent. May not be world class, but better than what we have got. 

I do think it would be a big failing of the club if we don't bring someone else in. 

 

 

Spot on. 
 

Big failing of the manager as well. Not that the apologists will blame him, Teflon Ralph will get away with it again. Any decent manager can see we need a someone else in nets, and any decent manager would insist that after left back this was our top priority. 

[Chez]

On 21/07/2021 at 09:58, Ex Lion Tamer said:

If we don't have any money then what are we supposed to do? Magic some up? Put the club at risk by getting in unaffordable debt?

 

isn't that what we have done? Maybe not unaffordable, but a massive loan nevertheless on a sizeable interest rate that, if we don't start paying off will, in five years time, be over £100m.

I wonder if that covered the shortfall in income to pay wages or is being used to pay for new players this summer as the next Sky payment perhaps coms in too late. Probably both.

[TWar]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Spot on. 
 

Big failing of the manager as well. Not that the apologists will blame him, Teflon Ralph will get away with it again. Any decent manager can see we need a someone else in nets, and any decent manager would insist that after left back this was our top priority. 

Attacking mid is a higher priority, as is replacing Ings when he goes and having a single back up fullback. It is probably our 5th choice after those and the left back. Would love a new keeper but I can see why there are more important things in the budget. A budget which the manager doesn't control, I will remind you, before you try to lay any signings or lack there of at the door of the wrong person.

[Chez]

15 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Spot on. 
 

Big failing of the manager as well. Not that the apologists will blame him, Teflon Ralph will get away with it again. Any decent manager can see we need a someone else in nets, and any decent manager would insist that after left back this was our top priority. 

Buy a player thats better than you have and ship the lessor player out. Simple and I fully endorse that. But its not simple.

In general, the way we are run (and have to be run from a financial standpoint) in terms of recruitment is one out, one in. Bertrand leaves we get a new left back. If someone comes in for a player with the right fee, we can then replace that player. What doesn't happen is we buy a player for a position we are fully stocked in terms of numbers, no matter how poor the `incumbents' are. The finances just don't permit it. The only option available is to try to ship players out, but offloading players that are deemed not good enough, on wages that are too high for the level below, is almost impossible. That's why Forster etc. are still here. 

Both keepers are out of contract next season. That is when you can make the change - unless of course you can ship one out. Suitors are not exactly queuing up. Celtic we are looking at you.

Goalkeeping at Saints is a mess.

[Lord Duckhunter]

26 minutes ago, TWar said:

Attacking mid is a higher priority, as is replacing Ings when he goes and having a single back up fullback. It is probably our 5th choice after those and the left back. Would love a new keeper but I can see why there are more important things in the budget. A budget which the manager doesn't control, I will remind you, before you try to lay any signings or lack there of at the door of the wrong person.

You make it out as if the manager is just given players and told to manage them. That he has no say in who comes or who is let go, that he is unable to tell the powers that be the positions he wants strengthening and that he is some sort of bystander when decisions are made. He’s been in charge 2.5 years, which is a decent length of time for a modern manager. The goalkeeping debacle has happened under his watch, the buck stops with him.

It seems he wanted Jankewitz out of the club, and he’s gone. So he clearly does have a say and influence on who comes  and goes. He’s paid to make decisions and it appears he’s decided to get by with these 2 poor keepers in nets. That’s down to him, nobody else. Managers live and die by those decisions, however Teflon Ralph seems to escape the die bit of his decisions. If the keepers cost us our place in the league, it’s his fault for not replacing them and deciding our priorities were elsewhere. 

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You make it out as if the manager is just given players and told to manage them. That he has no say in who comes or who is let go, that he is unable to tell the powers that be the positions he wants strengthening and that he is some sort of bystander when decisions are made. He’s been in charge 2.5 years, which is a decent length of time for a modern manager. The goalkeeping debacle has happened under his watch, the buck stops with him.

It seems he wanted Jankewitz out of the club, and he’s gone. So he clearly does have a say and influence on who comes  and goes. He’s paid to make decisions and it appears he’s decided to get by with these 2 poor keepers in nets. That’s down to him, nobody else. Managers live and die by those decisions, however Teflon Ralph seems to escape the die bit of his decisions. If the keepers cost us our place in the league, it’s his fault for not replacing them and deciding our priorities were elsewhere. 

I make out like the manager can make suggestions and is asked for input but the buying of players, scouting players, budgeting, prioritisation ect. falls finally on the director of football. Which is true. I feel you aren't so great at reading if you think I said Ralph can't make requests and is a "bystander", it's right there in the original post, and if he doesn't want to work with someone (ala Jank) then he can ask to get rid. The final decision, however, and all the actual work of negotiating a deal ain't him. Sorry, I know you think the nickname "Teflon Ralph" is very clever but you might need to wait for another opportunity to use it. 

[sydney_saint]

22 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You make it out as if the manager is just given players and told to manage them. That he has no say in who comes or who is let go, that he is unable to tell the powers that be the positions he wants strengthening and that he is some sort of bystander when decisions are made. He’s been in charge 2.5 years, which is a decent length of time for a modern manager. The goalkeeping debacle has happened under his watch, the buck stops with him.

It seems he wanted Jankewitz out of the club, and he’s gone. So he clearly does have a say and influence on who comes  and goes. He’s paid to make decisions and it appears he’s decided to get by with these 2 poor keepers in nets. That’s down to him, nobody else. Managers live and die by those decisions, however Teflon Ralph seems to escape the die bit of his decisions. If the keepers cost us our place in the league, it’s his fault for not replacing them and deciding our priorities were elsewhere. 

I think our keeper situation does pre date Ralph. Ever since we got promoted I feel we have had issues, with only world class defenders and cdms bailing them out. Starting with Davis who was only ever gonna be a liability, Boruc was good but also, well, Boruc, Stekelenburg was shit, Gazza was shit. Forster seemed okay, but really had some very good players in front of him. When we talk about wasted money, we talk about Carillo, Hoedt etc. But fuck me what a waste of 10m Gunn was. How our scouting team thought he was worth that when as far I can see, his only resemblance to a goalkeeper is designer stubble and trying to look like De Gea.

But. Ralph has been here long enough to sort it out. There are players out there. I just had a quick glance and see that Stefan Ortega is available for a couple of million quid cos his contract running down.  A proper scouting team should be able to find a few more of those. Use whatever money we got for Gunn and get in a new keeper. If we go into the season with our current two, and they make their usual errors, then the blame absolutely lies with Ralph. It's not like he needs 20m quid to bring in a decent keeper. Gunn out- new keeper in. 

Edited 22 July, 2021 by sydney_saint

[once_bitterne]

21 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ralph will have a budget & it’s up to him to manage within that budget. If he needs to shift people out to generate more money for signings or the wages of loan players, then that’s what he needs to do. You know, manage the squad, like countless previous managers have done. Maybe had he not persisted with this ridiculous rotation pony we may have been able to move one of them on. He’s been in charge for 2.5 years now, the goalkeeping fiasco hasn’t  been suddenly dropped on him, he’s been a part of it. 

It's very difficult to 'shift people out' when said people have no intention of being shifted due to earning wages of which they will never see the like of again.

[SuperSAINT]

Surely he’ll just leave us on a free at the end of his deal?

 

Edited 22 July, 2021 by SuperSAINT

[ErwinK1961]

5 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

Surely he’ll just leave us on a free at the end of his deal?

 

Footballer in “rejects large pay cut” shocker.

[Dusic]

Surely there is no way we offered Forster an extension.

Having spent 3 yrs trying everything to get rid of him I havent seen anything to suggest we should be trying to keep him. I would hope we may still be looking to shift him this summer and bring in another keeper, but probably unlikely.

One of the ultimate unsellables and surely will leave on a free next summer.

For a club that needs to sell to buy, the amount of flops we have ended up losing money on is utter madness. Thank god for Swansea's implosion and Gabbiadini because we would probably be back in administration in L1 without it.

[SaintBitterne]

Surely even with a pay cut we will pay more than Celtic,unless the cut is ridiculous

[Dan Johnson]

6 hours ago, SaintBitterne said:

Surely even with a pay cut we will pay more than Celtic,unless the cut is ridiculous

Being cynical, it could have been a “loaded” offer.

presumably we don’t see him as first choice over the next 3 years but he’d be an adequate 2nd choice.

Perhaps the offer was a way of showing Fraser our intentions for the coming years by offering the substantial pay cut and hoping it prompts him to make a longer term decision about his future this summer rather than next.

- signs the substantially lower contract on offer, we cut the wage bill and have a 2nd choice keeper for the next x number of years

- offended by the offer and looks to secure a long term contract elsewhere this summer, getting him off the wage bill early 

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, Dan Johnson said:

Being cynical, it could have been a “loaded” offer.

presumably we don’t see him as first choice over the next 3 years but he’d be an adequate 2nd choice.

Perhaps the offer was a way of showing Fraser our intentions for the coming years by offering the substantial pay cut and hoping it prompts him to make a longer term decision about his future this summer rather than next.

- signs the substantially lower contract on offer, we cut the wage bill and have a 2nd choice keeper for the next x number of years

- offended by the offer and looks to secure a long term contract elsewhere this summer, getting him off the wage bill early 

Don't think that is being cynical, it's a tactic. Offer him less than his rival, and he should get the message that he is no longer required. If he accepts it at least we have reduced his wage bill, but he won't, knowing that he is not going to play (regularly). Reckon he will be back at Celtic before long. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

What’s needed is some good old fashioned management. Ignore him, make him train with the kids,don’t give him a squad number,  make his life a misery. He’ll have 2 options then, fuck off and sign a half decent contract with Celtic or A N other, or have a miserable last season of his contract putting the cones out and practising with the nippers.

Cloughie, Shanks, SAF, these guys didn’t get to the top by namby  pamby #benice management, they were ruthless bastards, who would crush anyone who stood in the way of bettering the club. Ferguson humiliated Jim Leighton at Utd  so much that Leighton hasn’t spoken to him since (and Ferguson had him at Aberdeen and bought him to Utd). Lurch has been stealing a fucking good living from us the past 3 years, he hasn’t earned that wedge. Whist we have a obligation to pay him, we don’t have an obligation to  put him in the first team & be nice to him. 
 

If I was Ralph he’d have been in my office the day after the season ended and I’d have spelt out a few home truths to him. I’d them ask him “What’s it to be lurchio, the most miserable 10 months of your career, or a free transfer somewhere? You decide”. 

[ErwinK1961]

56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s needed is some good old fashioned management. Ignore him, make him train with the kids,don’t give him a squad number,  make his life a misery. He’ll have 2 options then, fuck off and sign a half decent contract with Celtic or A N other, or have a miserable last season of his contract putting the cones out and practising with the nippers.

Cloughie, Shanks, SAF, these guys didn’t get to the top by namby  pamby #benice management, they were ruthless bastards, who would crush anyone who stood in the way of bettering the club. Ferguson humiliated Jim Leighton at Utd  so much that Leighton hasn’t spoken to him since (and Ferguson had him at Aberdeen and bought him to Utd). Lurch has been stealing a fucking good living from us the past 3 years, he hasn’t earned that wedge. Whist we have a obligation to pay him, we don’t have an obligation to  put him in the first team & be nice to him. 
 

If I was Ralph he’d have been in my office the day after the season ended and I’d have spelt out a few home truths to him. I’d them ask him “What’s it to be lurchio, the most miserable 10 months of your career, or a free transfer somewhere? You decide”. 

Probably explains why you're not a football manager then.

[saint1977]

56 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s needed is some good old fashioned management. Ignore him, make him train with the kids,don’t give him a squad number,  make his life a misery. He’ll have 2 options then, fuck off and sign a half decent contract with Celtic or A N other, or have a miserable last season of his contract putting the cones out and practising with the nippers.

Cloughie, Shanks, SAF, these guys didn’t get to the top by namby  pamby #benice management, they were ruthless bastards, who would crush anyone who stood in the way of bettering the club. Ferguson humiliated Jim Leighton at Utd  so much that Leighton hasn’t spoken to him since (and Ferguson had him at Aberdeen and bought him to Utd). Lurch has been stealing a fucking good living from us the past 3 years, he hasn’t earned that wedge. Whist we have a obligation to pay him, we don’t have an obligation to  put him in the first team & be nice to him. 
 

If I was Ralph he’d have been in my office the day after the season ended and I’d have spelt out a few home truths to him. I’d them ask him “What’s it to be lurchio, the most miserable 10 months of your career, or a free transfer somewhere? You decide”. 

I wouldn’t normally agree with this but the player has benefitted from the totally inexplicable and frankly iffy-looking second contract extension after a poor year under Puel. Rumour was Claude wanted rid but Les got rid of him instead. Which I could live with but not the absolute muppet he then appointed. FF did OK when he came back in last season but only OK, not top wage level. Time he moved on with a year to go. He could do a Bogarde and sit around but in his shoes I’d rather have a 3 year deal with Celtic earning a bit more than the value of his last year with SFC. City he knows and not far from his native Northumbria. 

Ditto Shane Long for his last year as well, can’t even blame Les for that one. Another totally stupid but less costly extension decision which wasn’t warranted.

[saint1977]

6 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Probably explains why you're not a football manager then.

I wouldn’t normally agree with this approach but there’s been so many people that have benefited from Les and co’s shocking mismanagement that the vessel needs a chance to right itself again. FF gained from poor performance and that’s wrong. Can’t wait until there’s a new owner that clears decks totally of the rotten culture at the club but dread to think what division the club are playing in by that point. 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

I wouldn’t normally agree with this approach but there’s been so many people that have benefited from Les and co’s shocking mismanagement that the vessel needs a chance to right itself again. FF gained from poor performance and that’s wrong. Can’t wait until there’s a new owner that clears decks totally of the rotten culture at the club but dread to think what division the club are playing in by that point. 

Fraser has done nothing wrong, he got a good contract and signed it like anyone would. I think bullying a person is unacceptable in all circumstances, especially someone with rumoured mental health issues. You shouldn't be able to create a negative workplace environment for financial gain, it's unethical.

Also players/agents talk. If we get a rep for doing shady business practices like that and bullying a player and making their life unpleasant if they don't live up to standards then players might think twice about joining us. Not sure I'd join a team where the contract I signed won't guarantee employment for it's duration with basic respect and dignity.  

Edited 23 July, 2021 by TWar

[East Kent Saint]

Er that type of treatment plus holding on to a players registration and not paying them led to the Bosman ruling which is why players / agents hold most of the high value cards .

Edited 23 July, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[Verbal Kint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s needed is some good old fashioned management. Ignore him, make him train with the kids,don’t give him a squad number,  make his life a misery. He’ll have 2 options then, fuck off and sign a half decent contract with Celtic or A N other, or have a miserable last season of his contract putting the cones out and practising with the nippers.

Cloughie, Shanks, SAF, these guys didn’t get to the top by namby  pamby #benice management, they were ruthless bastards, who would crush anyone who stood in the way of bettering the club. Ferguson humiliated Jim Leighton at Utd  so much that Leighton hasn’t spoken to him since (and Ferguson had him at Aberdeen and bought him to Utd). Lurch has been stealing a fucking good living from us the past 3 years, he hasn’t earned that wedge. Whist we have a obligation to pay him, we don’t have an obligation to  put him in the first team & be nice to him. 
 

If I was Ralph he’d have been in my office the day after the season ended and I’d have spelt out a few home truths to him. I’d them ask him “What’s it to be lurchio, the most miserable 10 months of your career, or a free transfer somewhere? You decide”. 

Last summer was the time to try this I think. Instead he was welcomed back with open arms to the first team. What a surprise he wasn't then interested in taking a huge pay cut to join celtic...

 

Dreadful keeper

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Fraser has done nothing wrong, he got a good contract and signed it like anyone would. I think bullying a person is unacceptable in all circumstances, especially someone with rumoured mental health issues. You shouldn't be able to create a negative workplace environment for financial gain, it's unethical.

I'm not sure it's legal either. I've forgotten who now but there was a player who sued his club for this sort of treatment and won

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, East Kent Saint said:

Er that type of treatment plus holding on to a players registration and not paying them led to the Bowman ruling which is why players / agents hold most of the high value cards .

Pony.

Bosman was about players out of contract. Previously the club that held their registration could demand a fee, or stop him moving on a free. Post Bosman  they couldn’t. It had nothing to do with players that had a year left, like lurch 

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I'm not sure it's legal either. I've forgotten who now but there was a player who sued his club for this sort of treatment and won

Telling a player you’re not good enough for the first team squad, so have to train with the stiffs, is not illegal. Provided he’s paid, a tribunal can’t decide who is and isn’t in the first team.